K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

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K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

Byron Peebles
I have indeed done all the clicks and boot removals and been unable to
resolve the disconnect.

It even happens when the radio is in-use and suddenly has the radio
disconnect from the computer.

So, the only answer is the standard "make certain it clicks", which it does?

73, Byron
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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

Don Wilhelm
Byron,

You might have a defective cable - get another one and see if the
problem goes away.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/1/2016 6:59 PM, Byron Peebles wrote:
> I have indeed done all the clicks and boot removals and been unable to
> resolve the disconnect.
>
> It even happens when the radio is in-use and suddenly has the radio
> disconnect from the computer.
>
> So, the only answer is the standard "make certain it clicks", which it
> does?
>

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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

David Christ
In reply to this post by Byron Peebles
Another thing it could be is a bad connector to cable connection.  It can be intermittent.  Another thing to look at is have any of the wires in the jack been bent.  They are pretty flimsy.

David K0LUM

> On May 1, 2016, at 5:59 PM, Byron Peebles <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have indeed done all the clicks and boot removals and been unable to resolve the disconnect.
>
> It even happens when the radio is in-use and suddenly has the radio disconnect from the computer.
>
> So, the only answer is the standard "make certain it clicks", which it does?
>
> 73, Byron
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

k6dgw
In reply to this post by Byron Peebles
"Click" is all we have to determine if it's seated, so I guess "Yes",
that's all there is.  I'd try another cable.  My experience with RJ-45's
is in large, tied bundles fanning out to a rack of routers or other
devices.  Nothing moves, it's all tied down.  In single lots, RJ-45's
leave a bit to be desired if there's any mechanical strain. They're
crimped, with a special tool.  Some tools, like maybe what the ATT tech
carries are good and do a reliable job, others from you-know-where ...
maybe not so much.

I suppose it is possible that the jack is bad and not engaging the tab,
and is clicking just to mess with your mind.   At the TV station I
worked at during college, we had to read and record the meters [~15 or
20] every 60 min.  They were behind me when I was in the control room.
Late at night, I became convinced they all went to wrong values and
snapped to the right ones only when I picked up the clipboard to read
them. :-))

I'd try a new cable.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 5/1/2016 3:59 PM, Byron Peebles wrote:

> So, the only answer is the standard "make certain it clicks", which it
> does?

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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

Kevin Stover
In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm
I agree with Don. Try a new cable.

It doesn't take a lot of flex to break one of those small solid copper
wires.
If it's broken in the connector it wasn't crimped well, as the standard
RJ-45 has a strain relief built in that clamps down on the cable to keep
it from pulling out.

I just cringe when I see someone unpack a store bought cable, grab a
hold of the connector and start straightening it out.

On 5/1/2016 6:04 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Byron,
>
> You might have a defective cable - get another one and see if the
> problem goes away.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 5/1/2016 6:59 PM, Byron Peebles wrote:
>> I have indeed done all the clicks and boot removals and been unable
>> to resolve the disconnect.
>>
>> It even happens when the radio is in-use and suddenly has the radio
>> disconnect from the computer.
>>
>> So, the only answer is the standard "make certain it clicks", which
>> it does?
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441


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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

Guy Olinger K2AV
It is so easy to bust an RJ45 cable it really isn't funny. There are so
many ways to screw up the connector it isn't funny.

Never trust an RJ45 cable, it only works if you can prove it works.
Otherwise it's something that Murphy has slipped into our usage to get
even. Maybe something inspired by Satan to temp people to falsely blame the
people at Aptos and stir up strife on the reflector.

If the radio ever accidentally gets lifted or pulled by an RJ45 cable...
Heh, heh.

It's possible to have one of the wires in the cable break and have the rest
of the cable hold it together, with two broken ends touching each other,
whenever they feel like it. Very intermittent. When you move the rig to
find the trouble, the movement of the cord can re-touch the wires and the
trouble go away. As soon as you put it back trouble comes back.

You think I'm exaggerating or kidding? I'm not. Been there, done that, been
exasperated, gone round the bush multiple times trying to chase down a
@$*&^@&%$% intermittent trouble.

Treat them like they're cheep cr*p, because they all are. They were
DESIGNED to be cheep and do away with all that manually expensive cording
for phones and phone style connected devices. Larger stranded wires with
crimp screw eyes are much more durable, but cost a lot more. It's all about
money and easy to assemble at the factory, or dump it off on the installer
and don't pay for installation at all.

Never pull on them. Never drop anything on them. Never stretch/straighten
them out by holding the connectors. Never force an RJ45 into its socket if
it doesn't want to go. Find out what's wrong first. Never use them to
connect to something that is vibrating, or gets regular motion.

If anything involving an RJ45 cord doesn't work, rule out the RJ45 first.
Save yourself time and frustration.

There may be a pure, kind, likable, friendly, softhearted and honorable
RJ45 out there, that never caused anyone any trouble, that will suffer
prejudice on account of this. Poor thing will just have to deal with it.
His fambly has a terrible reputation.

73, Guy.

On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 8:19 PM, Kevin Stover <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I agree with Don. Try a new cable.
>
> It doesn't take a lot of flex to break one of those small solid copper
> wires.
> If it's broken in the connector it wasn't crimped well, as the standard
> RJ-45 has a strain relief built in that clamps down on the cable to keep it
> from pulling out.
>
> I just cringe when I see someone unpack a store bought cable, grab a hold
> of the connector and start straightening it out.
>
> On 5/1/2016 6:04 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>
>> Byron,
>>
>> You might have a defective cable - get another one and see if the problem
>> goes away.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 5/1/2016 6:59 PM, Byron Peebles wrote:
>>
>>> I have indeed done all the clicks and boot removals and been unable to
>>> resolve the disconnect.
>>>
>>> It even happens when the radio is in-use and suddenly has the radio
>>> disconnect from the computer.
>>>
>>> So, the only answer is the standard "make certain it clicks", which it
>>> does?
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>
> --
> R. Kevin Stover
> AC0H
> ARRL
> FISTS #11993
> SKCC #215
> NAQCC #3441
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

Phil Wheeler-2
Re "There may be a pure, kind, likable, friendly,
softhearted and honorable RJ45 out there, that
never caused anyone any trouble, that will suffer
prejudice on account of this."

Likely so, Guy: I build my own :-)

73, Phil W7OX

On 5/1/16 5:53 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> It is so easy to bust an RJ45 cable it really isn't funny. There are so
> many ways to screw up the connector it isn't funny.
>
> Never trust an RJ45 cable, it only works if you can prove it works.
> Otherwise it's something that Murphy has slipped into our usage to get
> even. Maybe something inspired by Satan to temp people to falsely blame the
> people at Aptos and stir up strife on the reflector.
>
> If the radio ever accidentally gets lifted or pulled by an RJ45 cable...
> Heh, heh.
>
> It's possible to have one of the wires in the cable break and have the rest
> of the cable hold it together, with two broken ends touching each other,
> whenever they feel like it. Very intermittent. When you move the rig to
> find the trouble, the movement of the cord can re-touch the wires and the
> trouble go away. As soon as you put it back trouble comes back.
>
> You think I'm exaggerating or kidding? I'm not. Been there, done that, been
> exasperated, gone round the bush multiple times trying to chase down a
> @$*&^@&%$% intermittent trouble.
>
> Treat them like they're cheep cr*p, because they all are. They were
> DESIGNED to be cheep and do away with all that manually expensive cording
> for phones and phone style connected devices. Larger stranded wires with
> crimp screw eyes are much more durable, but cost a lot more. It's all about
> money and easy to assemble at the factory, or dump it off on the installer
> and don't pay for installation at all.
>
> Never pull on them. Never drop anything on them. Never stretch/straighten
> them out by holding the connectors. Never force an RJ45 into its socket if
> it doesn't want to go. Find out what's wrong first. Never use them to
> connect to something that is vibrating, or gets regular motion.
>
> If anything involving an RJ45 cord doesn't work, rule out the RJ45 first.
> Save yourself time and frustration.
>
> There may be a pure, kind, likable, friendly, softhearted and honorable
> RJ45 out there, that never caused anyone any trouble, that will suffer
> prejudice on account of this. Poor thing will just have to deal with it.
> His fambly has a terrible reputation.
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 8:19 PM, Kevin Stover <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Don. Try a new cable.
>>
>> It doesn't take a lot of flex to break one of those small solid copper
>> wires.
>> If it's broken in the connector it wasn't crimped well, as the standard
>> RJ-45 has a strain relief built in that clamps down on the cable to keep it
>> from pulling out.
>>
>> I just cringe when I see someone unpack a store bought cable, grab a hold
>> of the connector and start straightening it out.
>>
>> On 5/1/2016 6:04 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>>
>>> Byron,
>>>
>>> You might have a defective cable - get another one and see if the problem
>>> goes away.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>> On 5/1/2016 6:59 PM, Byron Peebles wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have indeed done all the clicks and boot removals and been unable to
>>>> resolve the disconnect.
>>>>
>>>> It even happens when the radio is in-use and suddenly has the radio
>>>> disconnect from the computer.
>>>>
>>>> So, the only answer is the standard "make certain it clicks", which it
>>>> does?
>>>>
>>>>

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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

Michael Blake
Just to be more accurate the term RJ45 defines the wiring of a 4 pair twisted cable (like a CAT3, CAT4, CAT5, CAT6) to an 8 position, 8 contact modular plug.  The plug and jack are described by the number of available contact positions and the number of contacts installed in those positions.

The most common failure point, in my experience, was the crimped connection at the male plug.  Broken wire, bad crimp, wrong plug (there are different plugs for flat or round cable and then by stranded or solid conductors.  There are even universal plugs that are supposed to work for either stranded or solid conductors but they are not quite as reliable as the correct stranded or solid wire connector.

I wish the radio manufacturers had not used the incorrect term “RJ45” to describe the 8 position modular plug and jack.  Correctly used they are very reliable and VERY cheap.

Michael Blake - K9JRI



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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

Jim Brown-10
On Sun,5/1/2016 6:19 PM, Michael Blake wrote:
> The plug and jack are described by the number of available contact positions and the number of contacts installed in those positions.

The proper wiring of Ethernet cables REQUIRES that color code be
strictly observed. An Ethernet cable is four twisted pairs, each having
a different twist ratio. There's a Brown/White pair, an Orange/White
pair, a Green/White pair, and a Blue/White pair.

Those four pairs each carries a separate signal, and it is critical that
crosstalk between pairs is minimized. Crosstalk rejection is provided
two ways -- primarily by twisting, AND improved by each pair having a
different twist ratio.

In other words, simply having DC continuity between pins at each end of
the cable is not enough -- they must be correctly paired, and those
pairs most tightly twisted (for better noise rejection) are wired to
their assigned pins.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

Michael Blake
Those specific connections are exactly what "RJ45" describe.

Michael Blake - K9JRI

> On May 1, 2016, at 21:37, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Sun,5/1/2016 6:19 PM, Michael Blake wrote:
>> The plug and jack are described by the number of available contact positions and the number of contacts installed in those positions.
>
> The proper wiring of Ethernet cables REQUIRES that color code be strictly observed. An Ethernet cable is four twisted pairs, each having a different twist ratio. There's a Brown/White pair, an Orange/White pair, a Green/White pair, and a Blue/White pair.
>
> Those four pairs each carries a separate signal, and it is critical that crosstalk between pairs is minimized. Crosstalk rejection is provided two ways -- primarily by twisting, AND improved by each pair having a different twist ratio.
>
> In other words, simply having DC continuity between pins at each end of the cable is not enough -- they must be correctly paired, and those pairs most tightly twisted (for better noise rejection) are wired to their assigned pins.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

Guy Olinger K2AV
In reply to this post by Michael Blake
On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Michael Blake <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Correctly used they are very reliable


That's really the rub isn't it. Awful lot of UNcorrect use out in hamdom.
Not a little by myself, either, before I knew any better.

73, Guy K2AV
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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

Byron Servies
In reply to this post by Michael Blake
There are 2 wiring standards for cat5/5e/6 cable into RJ45 style modular
plugs: EIA/TIA-568A and EIA/TIA-568B (aka T568A and T568B). They are
slightly different, and both work to gigabit speeds. You can mix them, but
in a data center, for example, they will try to stick with 1 or the other.

For my station, I use shielded cat6 with Molex cat6 shielded RJ45 modular
plugs compatible with the Neutrik etherCon series cable ends. It can be a
bit of a pain getting the loading bar for the modular plugs installed
properly, but once put together, they work great.

73, Byron N6NUL

On Sunday, May 1, 2016, Michael Blake <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Those specific connections are exactly what "RJ45" describe.
>


--
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org
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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

Edward R Cole
In reply to this post by Byron Peebles
I've seen so many uses that were not adhering to the standard 4-pair.

But the most miserable use is as a mic connector which Motorola went
to.  Now I see many ham radio mfr's copying.  Instead of molded
multi-contact connector with set screw which holds contact tension
its just wiggle wiggle that poor RJ45.

But I suppose all the old wise RF designers have retired leaving only
the digital junkies "who said why not use a cheap RJ-45".  Bean
counters rejoiced!

Very happily retired not having to deal with such.  I am moving more
and more toward less use of connectors of any kind (Murphy loves 'em).

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
     "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
     [hidden email]

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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT
Microphone connectors fail eventually, even the well-made ones with set
screws and clamps.

There is one advantage to the RJ-45 -- it's easy to clip off a little
wire and crimp on a new one.

Replacing a more traditional connector is much harder.

73 -- Lynn

On 5/1/2016 9:35 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:
> But the most miserable use is as a mic connector which Motorola went
> to.  Now I see many ham radio mfr's copying. Instead of molded
> multi-contact connector with set screw which holds contact tension its
> just wiggle wiggle that poor RJ45.


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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

Matthew Cook
Unfortunately it's not the plug that gets flogged by the wiggle wiggle
wiggle... it's the socket.

\Replacing the socket of a RJ45 in any piece of equipment that has been
flogged to death is a little more than most Hams can cope with.  The
quality of the sockets that most manufacturers use is also questionable,
some are nothing more than wire pins bent within a plastic frame, cheap and
very nasty.

Having fought a loosing battle with Kenwood microphones in my 4WD, I've now
replaced the lot with something far more robust that has pins and positive
mec mechanical locking, no more plastic clips or bent pieces of wire and my
problems have reduces significantly.

The RJ45 sockets should stay where they were originally intended in IT
racking equipment where they are not disturbed, they are not really
intended for use i mobile/portable/high use equipment.

73

Matthew
VK5ZM



On 2 May 2016 at 14:23, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Microphone connectors fail eventually, even the well-made ones with set
> screws and clamps.
>
> There is one advantage to the RJ-45 -- it's easy to clip off a little wire
> and crimp on a new one.
>
> Replacing a more traditional connector is much harder.
>
> 73 -- Lynn
>
> On 5/1/2016 9:35 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:
>
>> But the most miserable use is as a mic connector which Motorola went to.
>> Now I see many ham radio mfr's copying. Instead of molded multi-contact
>> connector with set screw which holds contact tension its just wiggle wiggle
>> that poor RJ45.
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Michael Blake
On Sun,5/1/2016 7:30 PM, Michael Blake wrote:
> Those specific connections are exactly what "RJ45" describe.

You are mistaken. RJ45 defines the CONNECTOR.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RJ45

TIA/EIA-568A and 568B define pin assignments

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIA/EIA-568

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

Bill Frantz
In reply to this post by Byron Peebles
I find these connectors to be among the most reliable connectors
I use. I use them for my home network, as well as various other
places where manufacturer's have placed them (e.g. the IC706 mic
connector in my 4Runner). The pigtail I use to connect my
computer to the network is missing the latching prong on the
computer end. Sure, it occasionally falls out, but if the plug
is in the computer, the connection works.

I believe the K-POD knob will connect to the K3(S) with this connector.

On the unreliable end, I have had problems with 3.5mm audio
plugs (not fully seated) and the 2.1mm power plug on the KX3
etc. (exposed plus lead shorting and blowing fuses). However,
the worst has been the AC power connector found on the rear of
many pieces of equipment including monitors and computers. It
allows the manufacturer to use different AC power cords for
different wall plug conventions. After working, sometimes for
years, it corrodes and fails to power the equipment. Unplugging
and replugging doesn't fix it. Running a file down inside the
female connectors usually fixes it. These connectors will be the
first target for my new bottles of DeOxIt.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 5/1/16 at 4:36 PM, [hidden email] (Fred Jensen) wrote:

>"Click" is all we have to determine if it's seated, so I guess
>"Yes", that's all there is.  I'd try another cable.  My
>experience with RJ-45's is in large, tied bundles fanning out
>to a rack of routers or other devices.  Nothing moves, it's all
>tied down.  In single lots, RJ-45's leave a bit to be desired
>if there's any mechanical strain. They're crimped, with a
>special tool.  Some tools, like maybe what the ATT tech carries
>are good and do a reliable job, others from you-know-where ...
>maybe not so much.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz        | Since the IBM Selectric, keyboards have gotten
408-356-8506       | steadily worse. Now we have touchscreen keyboards.
www.pwpconsult.com | Can we make something even worse?

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Re: K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment

Kevin Stover
In reply to this post by Byron Servies
The standards go thusly.

TIA/EIA 568-A (T568A)

Pin 1 - white / green stripe

Pin 2 - green

Pin 3 - white / orange stripe

Pin 4 - blue

Pin 5 - white / blue stripe

pin 6 - orange

pin 7 - white / brown stripe

pin 8 - brown


TIA/EIA 568-B (T568B)

Pin 1 - white / orange stripe

Pin 2 - orange

Pin 3 - white / green stripe

Pin 4 - blue

Pin 5 - white / blue stripe

Pin 6 - green

Pin 7 - white / brown stripe

Pin 8 - brown


568B is predominant in the US. If you're making patch cables use the
same standard on both ends.
If you're making a cross over cable use the "A" on one end and the "B"
on the other. It really doesn't matter if you use a standard or not as
long as both ends are identical...that is until someone else works on
your network. I spent a week rebuilding 50 CAT6 runs that someone
decided to use their own standard on.

I've got 'em memorized. I can also subnet IPv4 in my head.

I need a hobby.;-)



On 5/1/2016 9:53 PM, Byron Servies wrote:
> There are 2 wiring standards for cat5/5e/6 cable into RJ45 style modular
> plugs: EIA/TIA-568A and EIA/TIA-568B (aka T568A and T568B). They are
> slightly different, and both work to gigabit speeds. You can mix them, but
> in a data center, for example, they will try to stick with 1 or the other.
>
>
> 73, Byron N6NUL
>


--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441



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