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K3S and Heil PR10

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w3pnm

K3S and Heil PR10

I have an Elecraft K3S and a Heil PR10. I recently started getting complaints about my audio and may have inadvertently changed a setting on the radio.

With regard to this combination of mic and radio, where should I set the following:

Mic Gain Range - Low or High?

Mic Bias - On or Off?

Additional gain state - On or Off (elecraft manual says to turn on for very output low mics)

Thank you,

73 - Bill - W3PNM
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KQ5S

Re: K3S and Heil PR10

Here is what Heil says:

We highly suggest our dynamic element microphones (HC-7, HC-5.1 , HC-6, Goldline GM series or PR-781 type). In this case, while setting up the MAIN: MIC SEL menu, tap [I] to toggle to "LOW" Mic Gain, and be absolutely certain that Mic Bias is off by tapping [2], as needed, to toggle to "OFF" for Mic Bias.
If you are using our high output "iC" element (Pro Set iC, Pro set Plus iC, Pro Set Elite iC, Handi Mic iC, or the iCM via the HSTA-K8 adapter cable), tap [1] to select "HIGH" Mic Gain, and tap [2] to set the Mic Bias to the "ON" option. Keep in mind this will have much more output and 'may' overdrive the mic preamp so keep ALC in range.

73,
Tom - KQ5S

On Feb 11, 2017, 3:56 PM -0600, Bill DeVore <[hidden email]>, wrote:

> I have an Elecraft K3S and a Heil PR10. I recently started getting complaints about my audio and may have inadvertently changed a setting on the radio.
>
> With regard to this combination of mic and radio, where should I set the following:
>
> Mic Gain Range - Low or High?
>
> Mic Bias - On or Off?
>
> Additional gain state - On or Off (elecraft manual says to turn on for very output low mics)
>
> Thank you,
>
> 73 - Bill - W3PNM
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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Don Wilhelm

Re: K3S and Heil PR10

Tom,

Unless I read the K3 and K3S manual incorrectly, Heil has the "HIGH" and
"LOW" mic gain settings reversed.

The HIGH and LOW settings refer to the mic gain, and not to the
microphone output. Those Heil mics have very low output and should use
the HIGH mic gain setting.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/11/2017 7:41 PM, Tom Robertson wrote:
> Here is what Heil says:
>
> We highly suggest our dynamic element microphones (HC-7, HC-5.1 , HC-6, Goldline GM series or PR-781 type). In this case, while setting up the MAIN: MIC SEL menu, tap [I] to toggle to "LOW" Mic Gain, and be absolutely certain that Mic Bias is off by tapping [2], as needed, to toggle to "OFF" for Mic Bias.
> If you are using our high output "iC" element (Pro Set iC, Pro set Plus iC, Pro Set Elite iC, Handi Mic iC, or the iCM via the HSTA-K8 adapter cable), tap [1] to select "HIGH" Mic Gain, and tap [2] to set the Mic Bias to the "ON" option. Keep in mind this will have much more output and 'may' overdrive the mic preamp so keep ALC in range.
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KQ5S

Re: K3S and Heil PR10

Don,
You may be correct. Fred in his book recommends High for Heil mics, both
electrek and dynamic where as Heil only recommends High for the electrek.

I would have thought if the Heil site was wrong someone would have noticed
it by now and Heil would have changed it.

I also thought the Heil electrek mics were high output so find it strange
that they would not require a low setting.

73,
Tom - KQ5S

On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tom,
>
> Unless I read the K3 and K3S manual incorrectly, Heil has the "HIGH" and
> "LOW" mic gain settings reversed.
>
> The HIGH and LOW settings refer to the mic gain, and not to the microphone
> output. Those Heil mics have very low output and should use the HIGH mic
> gain setting.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 2/11/2017 7:41 PM, Tom Robertson wrote:
>
>> Here is what Heil says:
>>
>> We highly suggest our dynamic element microphones (HC-7, HC-5.1 , HC-6,
>> Goldline GM series or PR-781 type). In this case, while setting up the
>> MAIN: MIC SEL menu, tap [I] to toggle to "LOW" Mic Gain, and be absolutely
>> certain that Mic Bias is off by tapping [2], as needed, to toggle to "OFF"
>> for Mic Bias.
>> If you are using our high output "iC" element (Pro Set iC, Pro set Plus
>> iC, Pro Set Elite iC, Handi Mic iC, or the iCM via the HSTA-K8 adapter
>> cable), tap [1] to select "HIGH" Mic Gain, and tap [2] to set the Mic Bias
>> to the "ON" option. Keep in mind this will have much more output and 'may'
>> overdrive the mic preamp so keep ALC in range.
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>

Don Wilhelm

Re: K3S and Heil PR10

Tom,

Yes, the electret mics typically have high output levels and thus can
use the low mic gain setting.

In other words, the Heil website has it "backwards". I am not sure Heil
will be willing to change it.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/11/2017 8:53 PM, Tom wrote:

> Don,
> You may be correct. Fred in his book recommends High for Heil mics, both
> electrek and dynamic where as Heil only recommends High for the electrek.
>
> I would have thought if the Heil site was wrong someone would have noticed
> it by now and Heil would have changed it.
>
> I also thought the Heil electrek mics were high output so find it strange
> that they would not require a low setting.
>

KQ5S

Re: K3S and Heil PR10

Something isn’t racking then because Fred in his K3s book recommends high for the electrek mic. Per Fred and Heil’s recommendation I am using a Heil BM-10ic and have the radio set to High with bias and I get good audio reports.

You have me wondering now?

73,
Tom - KQ5S

On Feb 11, 2017, 8:22 PM -0600, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>, wrote:

> Tom,
>
> Yes, the electret mics typically have high output levels and thus can
> use the low mic gain setting.
>
> In other words, the Heil website has it "backwards". I am not sure Heil
> will be willing to change it.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 2/11/2017 8:53 PM, Tom wrote:
> > Don,
> > You may be correct. Fred in his book recommends High for Heil mics, both
> > electrek and dynamic where as Heil only recommends High for the electrek.
> >
> > I would have thought if the Heil site was wrong someone would have noticed
> > it by now and Heil would have changed it.
> >
> > I also thought the Heil electrek mics were high output so find it strange
> > that they would not require a low setting.
> >

Don Wilhelm

Re: K3S and Heil PR10

Tom,

I don't know about the Heil Electret mics, but in my experience with the
K2, the electret mic output from the Heil "iC" microphones is equal to
that from most other electret microphones such as the Elecraft MH2.

Perhaps Heil has reduced the output of their more recent electret
microphones, I just don't know about that because I have not had recent
encounters with them.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/11/2017 9:28 PM, Tom Robertson wrote:
> Something isn’t racking then because Fred in his K3s book recommends
> high for the electrek mic. Per Fred and Heil’s recommendation I am
> using a Heil BM-10ic and have the radio set to High with bias and I
> get good audio reports.
>
>

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Leroy

Re: K3S and Heil PR10

In reply to this post by KQ5S

I also have it set the same way. All reports are great audio.

Roy AB7CE

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Robertson
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 7:28 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S and Heil PR10

Something isn’t racking then because Fred in his K3s book recommends high
for the electrek mic. Per Fred and Heil’s recommendation I am using a Heil
BM-10ic and have the radio set to High with bias and I get good audio
reports.

You have me wondering now?

73,
Tom - KQ5S

On Feb 11, 2017, 8:22 PM -0600, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>, wrote:

> Tom,
>
> Yes, the electret mics typically have high output levels and thus can
> use the low mic gain setting.
>
> In other words, the Heil website has it "backwards". I am not sure Heil
> will be willing to change it.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 2/11/2017 8:53 PM, Tom wrote:
> > Don,
> > You may be correct. Fred in his book recommends High for Heil mics, both
> > electrek and dynamic where as Heil only recommends High for the
> > electrek.
> >
> > I would have thought if the Heil site was wrong someone would have
> > noticed
> > it by now and Heil would have changed it.
> >
> > I also thought the Heil electrek mics were high output so find it
> > strange
> > that they would not require a low setting.
> >

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3S and Heil PR10

In reply to this post by KQ5S

Tom,
I would use whatever setting works the best; if you are receiving good audio reports, "leave sleeping dogs lie". If your mic gain is set at something reasonable (mine is "9"), I wouldn't worry about what is "suggested". Too many variables with your voice characteristics; if you are calling a "P5" for an ATNO, you might be speaking a bit louder than working a JA for the 300th time.
Dick, K8ZTT

From: Tom Robertson <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S and Heil PR10

Something isn’t racking then because Fred in his K3s book recommends high for the electrek mic. Per Fred and Heil’s recommendation I am using a Heil BM-10ic and have the radio set to High with bias and I get good audio reports.

You have me wondering now?

73,
Tom - KQ5S

On Feb 11, 2017, 8:22 PM -0600, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>, wrote:

Don Wilhelm

Re: K3S and Heil PR10

The real bottom line is to use the indication on the K3 (K3S, KX3 and
KX2) ALC meter.
If you are driving the voice audio up to the 5 to 7 bars level, that is
correct. If it is going higher reduce the MIC gain or switch to the low
mic gain setting.

If it is lower than the 5 to 7 bars, increase the mic gain or switch to
the high mic gain range.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/11/2017 10:28 PM, RIchard Williams wrote:
> Tom,
>
> I would use whatever setting works the best; if you are receiving good
> audio reports, "leave sleeping dogs lie". If your mic gain is set at
> something reasonable (mine is "9"), I wouldn't worry about what is
> "suggested". Too many variables with your voice characteristics; if
> you are calling a "P5" for an ATNO, you might be speaking a bit louder
> than working a JA for the 300th time.
>

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3S and Heil PR10

Don,
Can't argue with the advice in your email; in fact, I think the best response I have read.
As for "how you sound" on the other end, one setting no one mentioned is transmitter equalizer settings. I could be wrong, but from what I remember, Heil used to sell mics with a freq response tailored to communications. Now, with all the new rigs having the ability to adjust the frequency response to match your voice, the new mics are wide range (pro 10 specs are, "Producing full articulate sound from 85Hz to 16kHz". Now, you can adjust the freq response of your rig to match your voice.
Having said the above, I have to admit I haven't "played" with the equalizer, so my settings are 0 dB across the board. Might be interesting to hear from a few of you that have made changes, how you evaluated your changes, and (in the long run) have you found it made any difference. Additionally, I would think what your interests are, will affect what settings you find work the best (DXing or ragchewing).
Dick, K8ZTT
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
To:
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S and Heil PR10

The real bottom line is to use the indication on the K3 (K3S, KX3 and
KX2) ALC meter.
If you are driving the voice audio up to the 5 to 7 bars level, that is
correct. If it is going higher reduce the MIC gain or switch to the low
mic gain setting.

If it is lower than the 5 to 7 bars, increase the mic gain or switch to
the high mic gain range.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/11/2017 10:28 PM, RIchard Williams wrote:
> Tom,
>
> I would use whatever setting works the best; if you are receiving good
> audio reports, "leave sleeping dogs lie". If your mic gain is set at
> something reasonable (mine is "9"), I wouldn't worry about what is
> "suggested". Too many variables with your voice characteristics; if
> you are calling a "P5" for an ATNO, you might be speaking a bit louder
> than working a JA for the 300th time.
>

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KQ5S

Re: K3S and Heil PR10

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

My mic gain is set to 9 as well.

73,
Tom - KQ5S

On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 9:28 PM, RIchard Williams via Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tom,
> I would use whatever setting works the best; if you are receiving good
> audio reports, "leave sleeping dogs lie". If your mic gain is set at
> something reasonable (mine is "9"), I wouldn't worry about what is
> "suggested". Too many variables with your voice characteristics; if you
> are calling a "P5" for an ATNO, you might be speaking a bit louder than
> working a JA for the 300th time.
> Dick, K8ZTT
>
> From: Tom Robertson <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 7:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S and Heil PR10
>
> Something isn’t racking then because Fred in his K3s book recommends high
> for the electrek mic. Per Fred and Heil’s recommendation I am using a Heil
> BM-10ic and have the radio set to High with bias and I get good audio
> reports.
>
> You have me wondering now?
>
>
> 73,
> Tom - KQ5S
>
> On Feb 11, 2017, 8:22 PM -0600, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>,
> wrote:
> > Tom,
> >
> > Yes, the electret mics typically have high output levels and thus can
> > use the low mic gain setting.
> >
> > In other words, the Heil website has it "backwards". I am not sure Heil
> > will be willing to change it.
> >
> > 73,
> > Don W3FPR
> >
> > On 2/11/2017 8:53 PM, Tom wrote:
> > > Don,
> > > You may be correct. Fred in his book recommends High for Heil mics,
> both
> > > electrek and dynamic where as Heil only recommends High for the
> electrek.
> > >
> > > I would have thought if the Heil site was wrong someone would have
> noticed
> > > it by now and Heil would have changed it.
> > >
> > > I also thought the Heil electrek mics were high output so find it
> strange
> > > that they would not require a low setting.
> > >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Thomas Donohue

Re: K3S and Heil PR10

In reply to this post by w3pnm

Hi to all:

I apologize for the late response. I am using a K3S and Heil PR10 here and had the same problem as was noted in the original post. I have found that the PR10 will only work correctly using the HP input in the Mic settings. I use a mic gain setting of 12. I posted a note on this problem a while back and Don provided the correct response and my setup has worked FB ever since, and have been getting excellent audio reports on the air, which is the real test of the settings. I’ve had a number of exchanges with Heil re their recommendation of the LH setting for the PR10 and never was able to change their mind or resolve the issue. Just my two cents for what it’s worth.

Best 73,
Tom/W1QU
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