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K3S poor CW keying further investigation

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Chuck Chandler

K3S poor CW keying further investigation

After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common factor
in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
rig. I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.

I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous. At rest
the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to 11.5
or so. This seems like a lot. I'm running the power cable thru a
RigRunner Powerpole strip. If I can dig out another power supply from the
packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.

Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?

73 de Chuck, WS1L

--

===================
Chuck Chandler
[hidden email]
===================
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

As to the RigRunner power pole strip.........PUT IT IN THE TRASH where
it belongs.    NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power
a 100 watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply
terminals.   NO exceptions!

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:

> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common factor
> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
> rig. I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.
>
> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous. At rest
> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to 11.5
> or so. This seems like a lot. I'm running the power cable thru a
> RigRunner Powerpole strip. If I can dig out another power supply from the
> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
>
> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?
>
> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>

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rcbenedict1545

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting. I run 14.0 out of supply.
Ray
W8LYJ

Sent from my iPad

Don Schroder

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

Bob,

Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or RigRunner equipment?

For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?

I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!

Gunny, KE0PVQ

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Gmail<mailto:[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
To: Bob McGraw K4TAX<mailto:[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting. I run 14.0 out of supply.
Ray
W8LYJ

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> As to the RigRunner power pole strip.........PUT IT IN THE TRASH where it belongs. NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power a 100 watt radio. ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply terminals. NO exceptions!
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
>> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common factor
>> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
>> rig. I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.
>>
>> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous. At rest
>> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to 11.5
>> or so. This seems like a lot. I'm running the power cable thru a
>> RigRunner Powerpole strip. If I can dig out another power supply from the
>> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
>>
>> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?
>>
>> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Jim Rhodes-2

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing some
discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3
power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around a 1 volt
drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts
keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig
directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. That
is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with only
a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip
where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder <[hidden email]> wrote:

Bill Frantz

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

In reply to this post by Don Schroder

The short answer is that too much voltage drop on transmit puts
radios in an operational configuration where they produce more
IMD and other bad things.

Any connection in the power supply will introduce additional
resistance. At the current levels used during 100W transmission,
it doesn't take much to cause a significant voltage drop.

For example: 20 amps with a 0.05 ohm resistance. E=IR.
20*0.05==>1 volt.

When you use a RigRunner system, you have added 2 additional
PowerPole connectors plus the resistance of the automotive blade
type fuse. That is not good.

To find out what is happening in your system, use a volt meter
to measure the voltage drop over every connection. You might be
surprised. I was surprised at the cost of a single automotive
blade fuse in my solar+battery system. And all of them add up.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 4/25/20 at 10:15 AM, [hidden email] (Don Schroder) wrote:

>Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or RigRunner equipment?
>
>For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>
>I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
----------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | Art is how we decorate space,
408-348-7900 | music is how we decorate time.
www.pwpconsult.com | -Jean-Michel Basquiat

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Don Wilhelm

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

In reply to this post by Don Schroder

Don,

Yes, Anderson Powerpoles are fine connectors. Just don't use too many
of then when powering a 100 watt rig.

IMHO, Rigrunners are handy things, but running a 100 watt transceiver
from them is cause for significant voltage drops. Each contact point
will have some resistance. A fused Rigrunner has 6 contact points in
line with the power supply (you need to count those in both the negative
and positive lines)
If you have a K2/10, you can run it from the Rigrunner, but if a K2/100,
wire it direct to the power supply - there will be less voltage drop.

Save the Rigrunner for accessories and other lower current devices.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/25/2020 10:15 AM, Don Schroder wrote:

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

In reply to this post by Don Schroder

Gunny et al:

The issue with power distribution strips for DC is resistance. Every
contact or connection in the path adds some value of resistance. Using
Ohms law, where E = IR, we see that more resistance = more voltage
drop. This includes the resistance of the DC power cable and any
contact arrangements in the path. Ideally, there should be no voltage
change at the radio between receive and transmit.

I have found these power strips may be "rated" for 20 amps, but they
will always add some value of resistance at every contact point. I do
not recommend using any model, brand or make DC power strip to supply
DC to a radio. Thus I always connect the radio direct to the power
supply terminals.    I always suggest using proper size ring terminals,
or PowerPole connectors which are properly crimped using a correct
crimping tool.   A crimping tool is not pliers or the like, which if
used, I refer to "mash on" connections. I also sweat solder mine after
crimping as well.   The crimp plus solder method is not recommended by
the airline industry or NASA. I doubt if my radios will be "flying off
of the desk" or being launched into space any time in my lifetime. HI HI

On DC Cables.   Usually #12 AWG wire and a length of 3 ft or less is
suitable for 100 watt radios. If it is necessary to have longer DC
power cables, then I suggest using #10 AWG for lengths of over 3 ft but
less than 10 ft. If you need power cables over 10 ft, I'd consider
changing my installation.   The reason is that larger cables are
difficult to use, move, and attach connectors reliably behind a radio.

So to answer you question "is it safe........" yes, but there are better
ways to handle DC power distribution.

Clean and stable DC at the radio is the objective.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 4/25/2020 9:15 AM, Don Schroder wrote:

>
> Bob,
>
> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or
> RigRunner equipment?
>
> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>
> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
>
> Gunny, KE0PVQ
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>

N4ZR

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

In reply to this post by Jim Rhodes-2

For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain
RigRunner 4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even flicker
when I go key-down at 100 watts.

I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little optimistic)
might be to blame. My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts key down.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:

> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing some
> discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3
> power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around a 1 volt
> drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts
> keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig
> directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. That
> is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with only
> a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip
> where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Bob,
>>
>> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or
>> RigRunner equipment?
>>
>> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>>
>> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
>>
>> Gunny, KE0PVQ
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>> From: Gmail<mailto:[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
>> To: Bob McGraw K4TAX<mailto:[hidden email]>
>> Cc: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
>>
>> Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is
>> reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting. I run 14.0 out of supply.
>> Ray
>> W8LYJ
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> As to the RigRunner power pole strip.........PUT IT IN THE TRASH where
>> it belongs. NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power a
>> 100 watt radio. ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply
>> terminals. NO exceptions!
>>> 73
>>>
>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
>>>> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common
>> factor
>>>> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
>>>> rig. I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.
>>>>
>>>> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous. At
>> rest
>>>> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to
>> 11.5
>>>> or so. This seems like a lot. I'm running the power cable thru a
>>>> RigRunner Powerpole strip. If I can dig out another power supply from
>> the
>>>> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
>>>>
>>>> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?
>>>>
>>>> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home:
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

In reply to this post by Jim Rhodes-2

Jim et al:

Thank you for confirming exactly what I've written and suggested.

TO ALL........PLEASE do not use power strips to supply DC to your radio
from your power supply.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power
supply terminals.    The power pole and DC distributions strips are ok
for LED lightning and such but NEVER for anything drawing over about 2
amps.   I don't care what the manufacturer says they are "rated" for.
E = I x R.    Every connections adds resistance.    Do the math.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 4/25/2020 9:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:

> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing
> some discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string
> of 3 power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing
> around a 1 volt drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive
> and 100 watts keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I
> wired the rig directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less
> than 0.25 volts. That is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be
> connected from now on with only a fuse inline. The low current stuff
> will stay on the power pole strip where they do just fine lighting up
> lights and stuff.
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections,
> and/or RigRunner equipment?
>
> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>
> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
>
> Gunny, KE0PVQ
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> From: Gmail<mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
> To: Bob McGraw K4TAX<mailto:[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
>
> Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if
> it is reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting. I run
> 14.0 out of supply.
> Ray
> W8LYJ
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >
> > As to the RigRunner power pole strip.........PUT IT IN THE
> TRASH where it belongs. NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power
> distribution strip to power a 100 watt radio. ALWAYS connect the
> radio direct to the power supply terminals. NO exceptions!
> >
> > 73
> >
> > Bob, K4TAX
> >
> >
> >> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
> >> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the
> common factor
> >> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about
> from my
> >> rig. I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's
> job.
> >>
> >> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A
> continuous. At rest
> >> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it
> dips to 11.5
> >> or so. This seems like a lot. I'm running the power cable thru a
> >> RigRunner Powerpole strip. If I can dig out another power
> supply from the
> >> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
> >>
> >> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being
> reported?
> >>
> >> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
> >>
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home:
> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Felecraft&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=ungsv%2Fp%2BttMdFv1pen3cIlx6vdo6lgKCjXn4vvBnIgI%3D&reserved=0
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Ron Manfredi

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

Fewer power supplies (meaning the switching type) have actual terminal
bolts to use with ring connectors. If the supply doesn't have that type
of connector, then what alternatives are there to being able to use one
supply in a station that has more than one high current rig, (even if
they are not used at the same time) since the connectors on most of
these supplies will take at most only one 10-12 gauge cable?

Ron WA2EIO

On 4/25/2020 10:56 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> Jim et al:
>
> Thank you for confirming exactly what I've written and suggested.
>
> TO ALL........PLEASE do not use power strips to supply DC to your
> radio from your power supply.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the
> power supply terminals.    The power pole and DC distributions strips
> are ok for LED lightning and such but NEVER for anything drawing over
> about 2 amps.   I don't care what the manufacturer says they are
> "rated" for.    E = I x R.    Every connections adds resistance.    Do
> the math.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
> On 4/25/2020 9:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
>> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing
>> some discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the
>> string of 3 power pole connections in my setup at the time I was
>> seeing around a 1 volt drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between
>> receive and 100 watts keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my
>> VOM so I wired the rig directly to the supply and the voltage drop
>> was less than 0.25 volts. That is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps
>> will be connected from now on with only a fuse inline. The low
>> current stuff will stay on the power pole strip where they do just
>> fine lighting up lights and stuff.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>     Bob,
>>
>>     Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections,
>>     and/or RigRunner equipment?
>>
>>     For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>>
>>     I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
>>
>>     Gunny, KE0PVQ
>>
>>     Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>     Windows 10
>>
>>     From: Gmail<mailto:[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>     Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
>>     To: Bob McGraw K4TAX<mailto:[hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>     Cc: [hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>     Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
>>
>>     Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if
>>     it is reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting. I run
>>     14.0 out of supply.
>>     Ray
>>     W8LYJ
>>
>>     Sent from my iPad
>>
>>     > On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>     >
>>     > As to the RigRunner power pole strip.........PUT IT IN THE
>>     TRASH where it belongs. NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power
>>     distribution strip to power a 100 watt radio. ALWAYS connect the
>>     radio direct to the power supply terminals. NO exceptions!
>>     >
>>     > 73
>>     >
>>     > Bob, K4TAX
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
>>     >> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the
>>     common factor
>>     >> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about
>>     from my
>>     >> rig. I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's
>>     job.
>>     >>
>>     >> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A
>>     continuous. At rest
>>     >> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it
>>     dips to 11.5
>>     >> or so. This seems like a lot. I'm running the power cable
>> thru a
>>     >> RigRunner Powerpole strip. If I can dig out another power
>>     supply from the
>>     >> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
>>     >>
>>     >> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being
>>     reported?
>>     >>
>>     >> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>>     >>
>>     >
>>     > ______________________________________________________________
>>     > Elecraft mailing list
>>     > Home:
>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Felecraft&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=ungsv%2Fp%2BttMdFv1pen3cIlx6vdo6lgKCjXn4vvBnIgI%3D&reserved=0
>>     > Help:
>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmmfaq.htm&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=FSSRNX8wMACqNS%2BQ1XwUQPLzjJH3fCS8HnUiSFvElgk%3D&reserved=0
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>>     > This list hosted by:
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>>     Help:
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ke9uw

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

In reply to this post by N4ZR

I did notice that the post mentioned that his power supply dipped in voltage but as for preventing issues due to low voltage, it's not your voltmeter on the power supply that is the proper indicator. It is the voltage on the input to the K3 that you should be noting. It's available on the menu and displays in the VFO B area on the screen.

Jack BMW Motorcycles
Chuck KE9UW
[hidden email]

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 25, 2020, at 9:51 AM, N4ZR <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain RigRunner 4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even flicker when I go key-down at 100 watts.
>
> I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little optimistic) might be to blame. My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts key down.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
>
>> On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
>> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing some
>> discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3
>> power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around a 1 volt
>> drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts
>> keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig
>> directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. That
>> is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with only
>> a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip
>> where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.
>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or
>>> RigRunner equipment?
>>>
>>> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>>>
>>> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
>>>
>>> Gunny, KE0PVQ
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows 10
>>>
>>> From: Gmail<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
>>> To: Bob McGraw K4TAX<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>> Cc: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
>>>
>>> Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is
>>> reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting. I run 14.0 out of supply.
>>> Ray
>>> W8LYJ
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> As to the RigRunner power pole strip.........PUT IT IN THE TRASH where
>>> it belongs. NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power a
>>> 100 watt radio. ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply
>>> terminals. NO exceptions!
>>>> 73
>>>>
>>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
>>>>> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common
>>> factor
>>>>> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
>>>>> rig. I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous. At
>>> rest
>>>>> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to
>>> 11.5
>>>>> or so. This seems like a lot. I'm running the power cable thru a
>>>>> RigRunner Powerpole strip. If I can dig out another power supply from
>>> the
>>>>> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?
>>>>>
>>>>> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home:
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Felecraft&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=ungsv%2Fp%2BttMdFv1pen3cIlx6vdo6lgKCjXn4vvBnIgI%3D&reserved=0
>>>> Help:
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmmfaq.htm&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=FSSRNX8wMACqNS%2BQ1XwUQPLzjJH3fCS8HnUiSFvElgk%3D&reserved=0
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>>>> This list hosted by:
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Chuck, KE9UW

Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

In reply to this post by Ron Manfredi

Ron:

> On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Ron Manfredi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Fewer power supplies (meaning the switching type) have actual terminal bolts to use with ring connectors. If the supply doesn't have that type of connector, then what alternatives are there to being able to use one supply in a station that has more than one high current rig, (even if they are not used at the same time) since the connectors on most of these supplies will take at most only one 10-12 gauge cable?

A number of power supplies now feature Anderson Power Poles. Is that the connector you’re referring?

Of course, Elecraft transceivers also use the Anderson Power Pole connectors as does Flex Radio System transceivers. West Mountain Radio offers the “Rig Runner” series of DC Power Splitters using Anderson Power Poles that feature varying number of connections as well as individual fused ports (they use Automobile fuses) where if the fuse blows the port lights up, with the device rated for 40A. I just saw an advertisement for a new product (4006U) that also includes two UBS power ports as well. See: http://www.westmountainradio.com/rigrunner.php

There are also other manufacturers/distributors of DC Power Splitters, such as Powerwerx, and MFJ that offer their own variations of Anderson Power Pole DC Power Splitters. Installing Anderson Power poles is relatively easy if you use the proper crimper. All of my DC power cables use Anderson Power Poles because the DC Power Splitters make it easy to wire the station, it is easy to add/remove power connections, and provide a standard fitting that makes it easy to relocate equipment to another part of the station or somewhere else (e.g. I use them in my Volvo XC70 as all of my ham gear works off DC Power Splitters). Each connection can also be locked in place in the power splitter with an insert that comes with the power splitter (they’re provided with the WMR products; otherwise, you can buy them separately).

FWIW,

Barry Baines, WD4ASW
Keller, TX

>
> Ron WA2EIO
>
>
> On 4/25/2020 10:56 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> Jim et al:
>>
>> Thank you for confirming exactly what I've written and suggested.
>>
>> TO ALL........PLEASE do not use power strips to supply DC to your radio from your power supply. ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply terminals. The power pole and DC distributions strips are ok for LED lightning and such but NEVER for anything drawing over about 2 amps. I don't care what the manufacturer says they are "rated" for. E = I x R. Every connections adds resistance. Do the math.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>> On 4/25/2020 9:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
>>> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing some discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3 power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around a 1 volt drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. That is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with only a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections,
>>> and/or RigRunner equipment?
>>>
>>> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>>>
>>> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
>>>
>>> Gunny, KE0PVQ
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows 10
>>>
>>> From: Gmail<mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
>>> To: Bob McGraw K4TAX<mailto:[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>> Cc: [hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
>>>
>>> Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if
>>> it is reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting. I run
>>> 14.0 out of supply.
>>> Ray
>>> W8LYJ
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> > On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > As to the RigRunner power pole strip.........PUT IT IN THE
>>> TRASH where it belongs. NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power
>>> distribution strip to power a 100 watt radio. ALWAYS connect the
>>> radio direct to the power supply terminals. NO exceptions!
>>> >
>>> > 73
>>> >
>>> > Bob, K4TAX
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
>>> >> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the
>>> common factor
>>> >> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about
>>> from my
>>> >> rig. I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's
>>> job.
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A
>>> continuous. At rest
>>> >> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it
>>> dips to 11.5
>>> >> or so. This seems like a lot. I'm running the power cable thru a
>>> >> RigRunner Powerpole strip. If I can dig out another power
>>> supply from the
>>> >> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
>>> >>
>>> >> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being
>>> reported?
>>> >>
>>> >> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > ______________________________________________________________
>>> > Elecraft mailing list
>>> > Home:
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Felecraft&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=ungsv%2Fp%2BttMdFv1pen3cIlx6vdo6lgKCjXn4vvBnIgI%3D&reserved=0
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>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmmfaq.htm&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=FSSRNX8wMACqNS%2BQ1XwUQPLzjJH3fCS8HnUiSFvElgk%3D&reserved=0
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>> ______________________________________________________________
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Don Wilhelm

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

In reply to this post by Ron Manfredi

Solder each power supply lead to a short length of #10 wire. Insulate
the connection well.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/25/2020 11:12 AM, Ron Manfredi wrote:
> Fewer power supplies (meaning the switching type) have actual terminal
> bolts to use with ring connectors. If the supply doesn't have that type
> of connector, then what alternatives are there to being able to use one
> supply in a station that has more than one high current rig, (even if
> they are not used at the same time) since the connectors on most of
> these supplies will take at most only one 10-12 gauge cable?
>
> Ron WA2EIO
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

In reply to this post by Ron Manfredi

I took off the original connectors and replaced them with suitable #10
bolts, nuts, insulating washers and flat washers. The point, if the
supply doesn't have the connectors you need, then don't buy it! We
are hams and hams have always made things work they way needed and as
they should for the purpose.

73

Bob, K4TAX.

On 4/25/2020 10:12 AM, Ron Manfredi wrote:

> Fewer power supplies (meaning the switching type) have actual terminal
> bolts to use with ring connectors. If the supply doesn't have that
> type of connector, then what alternatives are there to being able to
> use one supply in a station that has more than one high current rig,
> (even if they are not used at the same time) since the connectors on
> most of these supplies will take at most only one 10-12 gauge cable?
>
> Ron   WA2EIO
>
>
> On 4/25/2020 10:56 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> Jim et al:
>>
>> Thank you for confirming exactly what I've written and suggested.
>>
>> TO ALL........PLEASE do not use power strips to supply DC to your
>> radio from your power supply.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to
>> the power supply terminals.    The power pole and DC distributions
>> strips are ok for LED lightning and such but NEVER for anything
>> drawing over about 2 amps.   I don't care what the manufacturer says
>> they are "rated" for.    E = I x R.    Every connections adds
>> resistance.    Do the math.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>> On 4/25/2020 9:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
>>> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After
>>> seeing some discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in
>>> the string of 3 power pole connections in my setup at the time I was
>>> seeing around a 1 volt drop in the voltage on the K3 metering
>>> between receive and 100 watts keydown. That voltage drop was
>>> confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig directly to the supply and
>>> the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. That is the way my rigs
>>> and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with only a fuse
>>> inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip
>>> where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Bob,
>>>
>>>     Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections,
>>>     and/or RigRunner equipment?
>>>
>>>     For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>>>
>>>     I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
>>>
>>>     Gunny, KE0PVQ
>>>
>>>     Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>     Windows 10
>>>
>>>     From: Gmail<mailto:[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>>     Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
>>>     To: Bob McGraw K4TAX<mailto:[hidden email]
>>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>>     Cc: [hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]
>>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>>     Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
>>>
>>>     Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if
>>>     it is reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting. I run
>>>     14.0 out of supply.
>>>     Ray
>>>     W8LYJ
>>>
>>>     Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>     > On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]
>>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>     >
>>>     > As to the RigRunner power pole strip.........PUT IT IN THE
>>>     TRASH where it belongs. NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power
>>>     distribution strip to power a 100 watt radio. ALWAYS connect the
>>>     radio direct to the power supply terminals. NO exceptions!
>>>     >
>>>     > 73
>>>     >
>>>     > Bob, K4TAX
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
>>>     >> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the
>>>     common factor
>>>     >> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about
>>>     from my
>>>     >> rig. I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's
>>>     job.
>>>     >>
>>>     >> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A
>>>     continuous. At rest
>>>     >> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it
>>>     dips to 11.5
>>>     >> or so. This seems like a lot. I'm running the power cable
>>> thru a
>>>     >> RigRunner Powerpole strip. If I can dig out another power
>>>     supply from the
>>>     >> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
>>>     >>
>>>     >> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being
>>>     reported?
>>>     >>
>>>     >> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>>>     >>
>>>     >
>>>     > ______________________________________________________________
>>>     > Elecraft mailing list
>>>     > Home:
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Felecraft&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=ungsv%2Fp%2BttMdFv1pen3cIlx6vdo6lgKCjXn4vvBnIgI%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>     > Help:
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmmfaq.htm&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=FSSRNX8wMACqNS%2BQ1XwUQPLzjJH3fCS8HnUiSFvElgk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>     > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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>>>     >
>>>     > This list hosted by:
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N4ZR

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

In reply to this post by ke9uw

That's right - my focus was (perhaps too narrowly) on the behavior of
the power supply under load, not on losses in the system. Now if
someone can just tell me how to read the voltage at the transceiver - I
know there's a menu setting somewhere but my radio is fairly early and
the manual doesn't say.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 4/25/2020 11:25 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:

> I did notice that the post mentioned that his power supply dipped in voltage but as for preventing issues due to low voltage, it's not your voltmeter on the power supply that is the proper indicator. It is the voltage on the input to the K3 that you should be noting. It's available on the menu and displays in the VFO B area on the screen.
>
> Jack BMW Motorcycles
> Chuck KE9UW
> [hidden email]
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 9:51 AM, N4ZR <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain RigRunner 4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even flicker when I go key-down at 100 watts.
>>
>> I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little optimistic) might be to blame. My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts key down.
>>
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
>> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
>> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
>> For spots, please use your favorite
>> "retail" DX cluster.
>>
>>> On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
>>> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing some
>>> discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3
>>> power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around a 1 volt
>>> drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts
>>> keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig
>>> directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. That
>>> is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with only
>>> a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip
>>> where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.
>>>
>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Bob,
>>>>
>>>> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or
>>>> RigRunner equipment?
>>>>
>>>> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>>>>
>>>> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
>>>>
>>>> Gunny, KE0PVQ
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>> Windows 10
>>>>
>>>> From: Gmail<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
>>>> To: Bob McGraw K4TAX<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>> Cc: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
>>>>
>>>> Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is
>>>> reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting. I run 14.0 out of supply.
>>>> Ray
>>>> W8LYJ
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> As to the RigRunner power pole strip.........PUT IT IN THE TRASH where
>>>> it belongs. NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power a
>>>> 100 watt radio. ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply
>>>> terminals. NO exceptions!
>>>>> 73
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
>>>>>> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common
>>>> factor
>>>>>> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
>>>>>> rig. I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous. At
>>>> rest
>>>>>> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to
>>>> 11.5
>>>>>> or so. This seems like a lot. I'm running the power cable thru a
>>>>>> RigRunner Powerpole strip. If I can dig out another power supply from
>>>> the
>>>>>> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>> Home:
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>>>> Help:
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>> ______________________________________________________________
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Martin Sole-3

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

DISP and rotate vfo B for desired measurement option.

Martin, HS0ZED

On 25/04/2020 23:19, N4ZR wrote:

> That's right - my focus was (perhaps too narrowly) on the behavior of
> the power supply under load, not on losses in the system. Now if
> someone can just tell me how to read the voltage at the transceiver -
> I know there's a menu setting somewhere but my radio is fairly early
> and the manual doesn't say.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
>
> On 4/25/2020 11:25 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
>> I did notice that the post mentioned that his power supply dipped in
>> voltage but as for preventing issues due to low voltage, it's not
>> your voltmeter on the power supply that is the proper indicator. It
>> is the voltage on the input to the K3 that you should be noting. It's
>> available on the menu and displays in the VFO B area on the screen.
>>
>> Jack BMW Motorcycles
>> Chuck KE9UW
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 9:51 AM, N4ZR <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain
>>> RigRunner 4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even
>>> flicker when I go key-down at 100 watts.
>>>
>>> I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little optimistic)
>>> might be to blame. My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts key down.
>>>
>>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
>>> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
>>> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
>>> For spots, please use your favorite
>>> "retail" DX cluster.
>>>
>>>> On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
>>>> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After
>>>> seeing some
>>>> discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3
>>>> power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around
>>>> a 1 volt
>>>> drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts
>>>> keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig
>>>> directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25
>>>> volts. That
>>>> is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on
>>>> with only
>>>> a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip
>>>> where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob,
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or
>>>>> RigRunner equipment?
>>>>>
>>>>> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
>>>>>
>>>>> Gunny, KE0PVQ
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>>> Windows 10
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Gmail<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
>>>>> To: Bob McGraw K4TAX<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>> Cc: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
>>>>>
>>>>> Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if
>>>>> it is
>>>>> reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting. I run 14.0 out
>>>>> of supply.
>>>>> Ray
>>>>> W8LYJ
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As to the RigRunner power pole strip.........PUT IT IN THE TRASH
>>>>>> where
>>>>> it belongs.    NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to
>>>>> power a
>>>>> 100 watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply
>>>>> terminals.   NO exceptions!
>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
>>>>>>> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common
>>>>> factor
>>>>>>> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about
>>>>>>> from my
>>>>>>> rig. I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's
>>>>>>> job.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A
>>>>>>> continuous. At
>>>>> rest
>>>>>>> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it
>>>>>>> dips to
>>>>> 11.5
>>>>>>> or so. This seems like a lot. I'm running the power cable thru a
>>>>>>> RigRunner Powerpole strip. If I can dig out another power
>>>>>>> supply from
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being
>>>>>>> reported?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>>> Home:
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Felecraft&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=ungsv%2Fp%2BttMdFv1pen3cIlx6vdo6lgKCjXn4vvBnIgI%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>>> Help:
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmmfaq.htm&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=FSSRNX8wMACqNS%2BQ1XwUQPLzjJH3fCS8HnUiSFvElgk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This list hosted by:
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=UUAA8WvEIp3eK5GZeXhlS1iw3IbbbjccJYX9thNdwmo%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>>> Please help support this email list:
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net%2Fdonate.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=El%2B%2B%2FjuWPWWAcDHpBWYkGsrqtVtvC10pTrCu8QLCTrQ%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>> Home:
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Felecraft&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=ungsv%2Fp%2BttMdFv1pen3cIlx6vdo6lgKCjXn4vvBnIgI%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>> Help:
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmmfaq.htm&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=FSSRNX8wMACqNS%2BQ1XwUQPLzjJH3fCS8HnUiSFvElgk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by:
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=UUAA8WvEIp3eK5GZeXhlS1iw3IbbbjccJYX9thNdwmo%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>> Please help support this email list:
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>>>>>
>>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

Change the connectors on the power supply to accommodate several ring
type connectors. Use 1" long #10 bolts, nuts, flat washers and
insulating washers which are easy to find at your local hardware store
and are very easy to use and replace. Then you can connect 8 to 10
pieces of equipment to one power supply.

Remember, we are ham radio operators and that is what we've always
done. But as I have done, with two stations, I have two power supplies.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 4/25/2020 10:42 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Solder each power supply lead to a short length of #10 wire. Insulate
> the connection well.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/25/2020 11:12 AM, Ron Manfredi wrote:
>> Fewer power supplies (meaning the switching type) have actual
>> terminal bolts to use with ring connectors. If the supply doesn't
>> have that type of connector, then what alternatives are there to
>> being able to use one supply in a station that has more than one high
>> current rig, (even if they are not used at the same time) since the
>> connectors on most of these supplies will take at most only one 10-12
>> gauge cable?
>>
>> Ron WA2EIO
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

ke9uw

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

In reply to this post by N4ZR

Tap DISC and rotate the B knob for various including voltage readout

Jack BMW Motorcycles
Chuck KE9UW
[hidden email]

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:19 AM, N4ZR <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> That's right - my focus was (perhaps too narrowly) on the behavior of the power supply under load, not on losses in the system. Now if someone can just tell me how to read the voltage at the transceiver - I know there's a menu setting somewhere but my radio is fairly early and the manual doesn't say.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
>
>> On 4/25/2020 11:25 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
>> I did notice that the post mentioned that his power supply dipped in voltage but as for preventing issues due to low voltage, it's not your voltmeter on the power supply that is the proper indicator. It is the voltage on the input to the K3 that you should be noting. It's available on the menu and displays in the VFO B area on the screen.
>>
>> Jack BMW Motorcycles
>> Chuck KE9UW
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 9:51 AM, N4ZR <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain RigRunner 4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even flicker when I go key-down at 100 watts.
>>>
>>> I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little optimistic) might be to blame. My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts key down.
>>>
>>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
>>> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
>>> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
>>> For spots, please use your favorite
>>> "retail" DX cluster.
>>>
>>>> On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
>>>> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing some
>>>> discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3
>>>> power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around a 1 volt
>>>> drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts
>>>> keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig
>>>> directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. That
>>>> is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with only
>>>> a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip
>>>> where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob,
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or
>>>>> RigRunner equipment?
>>>>>
>>>>> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
>>>>>
>>>>> Gunny, KE0PVQ
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>>> Windows 10
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Gmail<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
>>>>> To: Bob McGraw K4TAX<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>> Cc: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
>>>>>
>>>>> Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is
>>>>> reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting. I run 14.0 out of supply.
>>>>> Ray
>>>>> W8LYJ
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As to the RigRunner power pole strip.........PUT IT IN THE TRASH where
>>>>> it belongs. NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power a
>>>>> 100 watt radio. ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply
>>>>> terminals. NO exceptions!
>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
>>>>>>> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common
>>>>> factor
>>>>>>> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
>>>>>>> rig. I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous. At
>>>>> rest
>>>>>>> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to
>>>>> 11.5
>>>>>>> or so. This seems like a lot. I'm running the power cable thru a
>>>>>>> RigRunner Powerpole strip. If I can dig out another power supply from
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>>> Home:
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Felecraft&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=ungsv%2Fp%2BttMdFv1pen3cIlx6vdo6lgKCjXn4vvBnIgI%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> Help:
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmmfaq.htm&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=FSSRNX8wMACqNS%2BQ1XwUQPLzjJH3fCS8HnUiSFvElgk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This list hosted by:
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=UUAA8WvEIp3eK5GZeXhlS1iw3IbbbjccJYX9thNdwmo%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> Please help support this email list:
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net%2Fdonate.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357&sdata=El%2B%2B%2FjuWPWWAcDHpBWYkGsrqtVtvC10pTrCu8QLCTrQ%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>> Home:
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Chuck, KE9UW

Frank Krozel

Re: K3S poor CW keying further investigation

In reply to this post by Martin Sole-3

I agree with Bob, TAX.
if it doesn't have the connectors you need, then don't buy it.

The message is pretty clear if one has the needed connectors for that power level and the other doesn’t.

One sits on the shelf of the vendor, the other one flys off the shelf.

-73- Frank KG9H
[hidden email]

> On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:24 AM, Martin Sole <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> DISP and rotate vfo B for desired measurement option.
>
> Martin, HS0ZED
>
>
>
> On 25/04/2020 23:19, N4ZR wrote:
>> That's right - my focus was (perhaps too narrowly) on the behavior of the power supply under load, not on losses in the system. Now if someone can just tell me how to read the voltage at the transceiver - I know there's a menu setting somewhere but my radio is fairly early and the manual doesn't say.
>>
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
>> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
>> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
>> For spots, please use your favorite
>> "retail" DX cluster.
>>
>> On 4/25/2020 11:25 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
>>> I did notice that the post mentioned that his power supply dipped in voltage but as for preventing issues due to low voltage, it's not your voltmeter on the power supply that is the proper indicator. It is the voltage on the input to the K3 that you should be noting. It's available on the menu and displays in the VFO B area on the screen.
>>>
>>> Jack BMW Motorcycles
>>> Chuck KE9UW
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 9:51 AM, N4ZR <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain RigRunner 4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even flicker when I go key-down at 100 watts.
>>>>
>>>> I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little optimistic) might be to blame. My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts key down.
>>>>
>>>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>>> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
>>>> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
>>>> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
>>>> For spots, please use your favorite
>>>> "retail" DX cluster.
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
>>>>> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing some
>>>>> discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3
>>>>> power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around a 1 volt
>>>>> drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts
>>>>> keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig
>>>>> directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. That
>>>>> is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with only
>>>>> a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip
>>>>> where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or
>>>>>> RigRunner equipment?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gunny, KE0PVQ
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>>>> Windows 10
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Gmail<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
>>>>>> To: Bob McGraw K4TAX<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>>> Cc: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is
>>>>>> reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting. I run 14.0 out of supply.
>>>>>> Ray
>>>>>> W8LYJ
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As to the RigRunner power pole strip.........PUT IT IN THE TRASH where
>>>>>> it belongs. NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power a
>>>>>> 100 watt radio. ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply
>>>>>> terminals. NO exceptions!
>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
>>>>>>>> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common
>>>>>> factor
>>>>>>>> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
>>>>>>>> rig. I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous. At
>>>>>> rest
>>>>>>>> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to
>>>>>> 11.5
>>>>>>>> or so. This seems like a lot. I'm running the power cable thru a
>>>>>>>> RigRunner Powerpole strip. If I can dig out another power supply from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
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