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K3S stainless screws

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Johnny Siu

K3S stainless screws

Hello Group,
As you are aware, I was the naughty one who always complaint about rusting screws in K3. Elecraft now does listen and the K3S is coming with stainless screws as standard.
For a price tag of over USD2000, it was difficult to understand why the screws in K3 were rusting.
Anyway, I am now very pleased that Elecraft does listen to its customers. Well done !
73
Johnny VR2XMC
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jh3sif

Re: K3S stainless screws

Stainless screws are available for K3 as an option. When I ordered a K3 kit, I ordered the optional stainless screw kit with them.

Best regards,
Kiichiro Onishi, JH3SIF

2015/06/17 17:35、Johnny Siu <[hidden email]> のメッセージ:

> Hello Group,
> As you are aware, I was the naughty one who always complaint about rusting screws in K3. Elecraft now does listen and the K3S is coming with stainless screws as standard.
> For a price tag of over USD2000, it was difficult to understand why the screws in K3 were rusting.
> Anyway, I am now very pleased that Elecraft does listen to its customers. Well done !
> 73
> Johnny VR2XMC
> ______________________________________________________________
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Johnny Siu

K3S stainless screws

Hello Kiichiro San,
Yes, I did order the K3SSKT stainless screws set for USD19.95.
My question is why for such an elegant radio of over USD2,000, stainless screws did not come as a standard. I don't believe Elecraft would like to squeeze the last bit of merely USD19.95.
Anyway, Elecraft took the customer's feedback and moves to the right direction for the K3S.
Congratulations to the K3S owners.
73
Johnny VR2XMC

寄件人︰ Keith Onishi <[hidden email]>
收件人︰ Elecraft <[hidden email]>
傳送日期︰ 2015年06月17日 (週三) 5:13 PM
主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] K3S stainless screws

Stainless screws are available for K3 as an option. When I ordered a K3 kit, I ordered the optional stainless screw kit with them.

Best regards,
Kiichiro Onishi, JH3SIF

2015/06/17 17:35、Johnny Siu <[hidden email]> のメッセージ:

> Hello Group,
> As you are aware, I was the naughty one who always complaint about rusting screws in K3. Elecraft now does listen and the K3S is coming with stainless screws as standard.
> For a price tag of over USD2000, it was difficult to understand why the screws in K3 were rusting.
> Anyway, I am now very pleased that Elecraft does listen to its customers. Well done !
> 73
> Johnny VR2XMC

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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: K3S stainless screws

In reply to this post by Johnny Siu

No rusting here, Johnny, and I live one mile from
the Pacific Ocean.

Phil W7OX

On 6/17/15 1:35 AM, Johnny Siu wrote:
> Hello Group,
> As you are aware, I was the naughty one who always complaint about rusting screws in K3. Elecraft now does listen and the K3S is coming with stainless screws as standard.
> For a price tag of over USD2000, it was difficult to understand why the screws in K3 were rusting.
> Anyway, I am now very pleased that Elecraft does listen to its customers. Well done !
> 73
> Johnny VR2XMC

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Gary Smith-2

Re: K3S stainless screws

FWIW, no rusting here and several of my radials are in salt water on
a slat marsh on the Atlantic, rig is 350 feet away. No rusting so far
since 09.

One of those great mysteries. ;)

73,

Gary
KA1J

> No rusting here, Johnny, and I live one mile from
> the Pacific Ocean.
>
> Phil W7OX
>
> On 6/17/15 1:35 AM, Johnny Siu wrote:
> > Hello Group,
> > As you are aware, I was the naughty one who always complaint about rusting screws in K3. Elecraft now does listen and the K3S is coming with stainless screws as standard.
> > For a price tag of over USD2000, it was difficult to understand why the screws in K3 were rusting.
> > Anyway, I am now very pleased that Elecraft does listen to its customers. Well done !
> > 73
> > Johnny VR2XMC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Johnny Siu

K3S stainless screws

Hello Gary,
Yes, I did hear many of you not having any rusting, real mysteries indeed!!
In my case, I live in a high rise apartment about 150m above sea level, 2 km away from the Victoria Harbour. My shack is overlooking the Victoria Harbour.
Summer time is about 33-34c with humidity often over 90%. The standard screws from Elecraft become rusting after 6 months so that I ordered the USD19.95 stainless steel screws set. On the contrary, all screws in my Icom radios do not show any rusting even after 10 years.
Now that Elecraft does listen to the customers, stainless steel screws are a standard (not option) to K3S. I think it is fair because no one would expect an over USD2000 radio does not come with stainless steel screws as standard.
I also do not believe it is Elecraft's idea to squeeze another USD19.95 for stainless steel screw set from the customers.
Again, it is a good move for Elecraft, responds to customer's suggestion.
73
Johnny VR2XMC
寄件人︰ Gary Smith <[hidden email]>
收件人︰ [hidden email]
傳送日期︰ 2015年06月18日 (週四) 1:11 AM
主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] K3S stainless screws

FWIW, no rusting here and several of my radials are in salt water on
a slat marsh on the Atlantic, rig is 350 feet away. No rusting so far
since 09.

One of those great mysteries. ;)

73,

Gary
KA1J

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3S stainless screws

Johnny and all,

It is my understanding that Elecraft did phase in the use of Stainless
Steel screws into the K3 line. I cannot say when that happened, but
only that it did happen.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/17/2015 7:23 PM, Johnny Siu wrote:
> Hello Gary,
> Yes, I did hear many of you not having any rusting, real mysteries indeed!!
> In my case, I live in a high rise apartment about 150m above sea level, 2 km away from the Victoria Harbour. My shack is overlooking the Victoria Harbour.
> Summer time is about 33-34c with humidity often over 90%. The standard screws from Elecraft become rusting after 6 months so that I ordered the USD19.95 stainless steel screws set. On the contrary, all screws in my Icom radios do not show any rusting even after 10 years.
> Now that Elecraft does listen to the customers, stainless steel screws are a standard (not option) to K3S. I think it is fair because no one would expect an over USD2000 radio does not come with stainless steel screws as standard.
> I also do not believe it is Elecraft's idea to squeeze another USD19.95 for stainless steel screw set from the customers.
> Again, it is a good move for Elecraft, responds to customer's suggestion.
>

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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: K3S stainless screws

Ah, perhaps that's why I've seen no rust here,
Don. My K3 is S/N > 8000.

73, Phil W7OX

On 6/17/15 4:54 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Johnny and all,
>
> It is my understanding that Elecraft did phase
> in the use of Stainless Steel screws into the K3
> line. I cannot say when that happened, but only
> that it did happen.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 6/17/2015 7:23 PM, Johnny Siu wrote:
>> Hello Gary,
>> Yes, I did hear many of you not having any
>> rusting, real mysteries indeed!!
>> In my case, I live in a high rise apartment
>> about 150m above sea level, 2 km away from the
>> Victoria Harbour. My shack is overlooking the
>> Victoria Harbour.
>> Summer time is about 33-34c with humidity often
>> over 90%. The standard screws from Elecraft
>> become rusting after 6 months so that I ordered
>> the USD19.95 stainless steel screws set. On
>> the contrary, all screws in my Icom radios do
>> not show any rusting even after 10 years.
>> Now that Elecraft does listen to the customers,
>> stainless steel screws are a standard (not
>> option) to K3S. I think it is fair because no
>> one would expect an over USD2000 radio does not
>> come with stainless steel screws as standard.
>> I also do not believe it is Elecraft's idea to
>> squeeze another USD19.95 for stainless steel
>> screw set from the customers.
>> Again, it is a good move for Elecraft, responds
>> to customer's suggestion.
>>
>

N5GE

Re: K3S stainless screws

In reply to this post by Johnny Siu

You're exactly right Johnny!

On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 23:23:40 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:

>Hello Gary,
>Yes, I did hear many of you not having any rusting, real mysteries indeed!!
>In my case, I live in a high rise apartment about 150m above sea level, 2 km away from the Victoria Harbour. My shack is overlooking the Victoria Harbour.
>Summer time is about 33-34c with humidity often over 90%. The standard screws from Elecraft become rusting after 6 months so that I ordered the USD19.95 stainless steel screws set. On the contrary, all screws in my Icom radios do not show any rusting even after 10 years.
>Now that Elecraft does listen to the customers, stainless steel screws are a standard (not option) to K3S. I think it is fair because no one would expect an over USD2000 radio does not come with stainless steel screws as standard.
>I also do not believe it is Elecraft's idea to squeeze another USD19.95 for stainless steel screw set from the customers.
>Again, it is a good move for Elecraft, responds to customer's suggestion.
>73
>Johnny VR2XMC
> ???? Gary Smith <[hidden email]>
> ???? [hidden email]
> ????? 2015?06?18? (??) 1:11 AM
> ??? Re: [Elecraft] K3S stainless screws
>
>FWIW, no rusting here and several of my radials are in salt water on
>a slat marsh on the Atlantic, rig is 350 feet away. No rusting so far
>since 09.
>
>One of those great mysteries. ;)
>
>73,
>
>Gary
>KA1J
>
>> No rusting here, Johnny, and I live one mile from
>> the Pacific Ocean.
>>
>> Phil W7OX
>>
>> On 6/17/15 1:35 AM, Johnny Siu wrote:
>> > Hello Group,
>> > As you are aware, I was the naughty one who always complaint about rusting screws in K3. Elecraft now does listen and the K3S is coming with stainless screws as standard.
>> > For a price tag of over USD2000, it was difficult to understand why the screws in K3 were rusting.
>> > Anyway, I am now very pleased that Elecraft does listen to its customers. Well done !
>> > 73
>> > Johnny VR2XMC
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>
>
>
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>
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Amateur Radio Operator
N5GE

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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

hhoyt

Re: K3S stainless screws

In reply to this post by Johnny Siu

Properly done, hot-process black oxide finish on plain steel with a wax
sealer can be quite corrosion resistance, there is even a MIL spec for
that (well, there is for everything including waffles, I suspect!). I
would think that accounts for the reports of the plain steel screws not
corroding.

Interestingly enough a reason a black oxide or especially black zinc
finish is applied to stainless steel is not related to appearance nor
corrosion resistance, but to forestall galling. The combination of the
intervening layer (>0.0002" of black-zinc conversion coating, 0.000005"
for hot-process black-oxide) and the wax or other sealer aids in
lowering interface friction. And although the wax acts a an EP
lubricant while tightening, it's stiction characteristic can aid in
fastener retention.

Howie - WA4PSC
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w7aqk

Re: K3S stainless screws

In reply to this post by Johnny Siu

Hi All,

Interesting how experiences vary. We spend most summers in our motorhome on
the Oregon coast--only a couple hundred yards away from the ocean in an RV
resort. I've experienced corrosion in just a matter of days while staying
there. One summer I "toasted" a laptop just by using it occasionally
outside under my canopy. When I opened up the case it looked, well, you can
guess! On another occasion, a couple of poles from my Buddipole system got
corroded so badly I couldn't get them apart, and they were only assembled
together for about 10 days. Typically I have to take my antenna down every
week or two and "refresh" all the connections.

I don't know what causes the variation in experiences from being close to
salt water. Maybe it's the prevailing winds? In our case it is almost
always off the ocean (west to east). I do know that, where we are located,
we are frequently shrouded in fog--at least for as much as several hours.
Even when it seems clear--or relatively so--you can "feel" the moisture in
the air.

Anyway, my conclusion is that salt water is insidiously dangerous to
anything electrical. Even when I "seal" connections, the corrosion somehow
sneaks in. I know one thing--I would never buy a used car that I knew spent
a good part of its life on the Oregon coast--or most any coast for that
matter. Stainless steel hardware is cheap insurance, and I try to use it on
just about everything that might get even limited exposure to salt air. The
problem is that there is almost always some part of an "assembly" that isn't
protected, and you best check it frequently. On the K3, stainless steel
screws are an excellent thing, but there are so many orifices in the rig,
you need to look inside every so often!

Dave W7AQK

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Dennis Griffin-2

Re: K3S stainless screws

In reply to this post by hhoyt

Regarding my earlier comment about the use of an anti-seize vs. a threadlocker: I don’t have a K3S, so have no direct experience with the screws being discussed; I haven’t really been following the SS screw thread, therefore didn’t realize that they apparently have the conversion coat Howie mentions; this being the case, I would agree with Howie that most OM’s shouldn’t need to take extra measures to ensure retention of the subject screws.

Having been a motorcyclist who maintains his own for 50 years, I do have considerable experience with the proper application of threadlockers, and as previously stated, it wouldn’t seem that use of one is really indicated here. FWIW, if I were subjecting electronic gear to a high vibration environment w/o taking steps to isolate it from the vibrations, I’d have greater concerns than a screw or few coming loose, hi.

73 de Dennis KD7CAC
Scottsdale, AZ

> On Jun 18, 2015, at 8:09 AM, Howard Hoyt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Properly done, hot-process black oxide finish on plain steel with a wax sealer can be quite corrosion resistance, there is even a MIL spec for that (well, there is for everything including waffles, I suspect!). I would think that accounts for the reports of the plain steel screws not corroding.
>
> Interestingly enough a reason a black oxide or especially black zinc finish is applied to stainless steel is not related to appearance nor corrosion resistance, but to forestall galling. The combination of the intervening layer (>0.0002" of black-zinc conversion coating, 0.000005" for hot-process black-oxide) and the wax or other sealer aids in lowering interface friction. And although the wax acts a an EP lubricant while tightening, it's stiction characteristic can aid in fastener retention.
>
> Howie - WA4PSC
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Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: K3S stainless screws

There is also another standard. Specifically, Japanese hardware does not conform exactly the our similar Phillips specifications.

If you do a lot of work with Asian production equipment, you might want to invest in a set of screwdrivers that are made to the JIS, or Japanese Industrial Standard.

Hozan (Japan) and Moody (USA) are a couple good manufacturers of JIS drivers.

You'll find that you bugger up an lot fewer screw heads that way.

I'd appreciate any comment from Elecraft as to what type screws they actually use.

Here's a link that has a good explanation. No connection to me, just info only.

http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/jis-japanese-industrial-standard/view-all-products.html

73, Charlie k3ICH

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