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K3S will not load or tune on 160 M

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K3S will not load or tune on 160 M

I put up my first 160 meter antenna last week in anticipation of participating in last weekend's contest. I managed to get the antenna -- a slow slung inverted L with a single raised radial as a compromise on my tiny 100 by 100 foot lot -- up in time. I then managed to get the antenna down to an SWR of 2 to 1 measured by a Rig Expert AA55 zoom analyzer, at the balun to which the raised wire and radial are directly attached, and ythen got the same 2.0 SWR reading at the shack end of a borrowed piece of about 50 feet of RG-213. [I recognize that 2 to 1 is not perfect by any means, but it was certainly within the range of my Elecraft equipment, I thought.]

But then my K3S simply refused to tune or load into the antenna, either directly, using its internal ATU, or routed through my KPA-500 to a KAT-500 tuner. In both circumstances, the rig and/or tuner showed an SWR around 25 to 1, and tuned at best to around 16 to 1, resulting in no apparent RF output.
After trying to fix this in various ways, I gave up on the 160M contest and turned to other pursuits, while seeking advice from several Elecraft-loving, 160M-using, friends.

It finally dawned on me this morning to connect the rig to my dummy load. The result of attempting to tune and load the dummy load is exactly the same as it was trying to use the new inverted-L: initial 25 to 1 SWR, tunes down only to 16.9 to 1.
The rig, amp, internal and external tuners, and dummy load work fine on 80M through 6M. This is my first time trying them all on 160M.
QUESTION: Are there special configuration or other steps I need to take to operate the K3S on 160 meters? Do these symptoms suggest any other problems that you can help solve?

Please advise, and thanks!
73 -
Rich, K1DJScituate, MA
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Grant Youngman-2

Re: K3S will not load or tune on 160 M

Off the cuff, it sounds like you’re trying to transmit into an open circuit … Are you sure you have the correct antenna selected in the radio?

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

> On Dec 3, 2018, at 11:49 AM, Richard Hoffman, K1DJ via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I put up my first 160 meter antenna last week in anticipation of participating in last weekend's contest. I managed to get the antenna -- a slow slung inverted L with a single raised radial as a compromise on my tiny 100 by 100 foot lot -- up in time. I then managed to get the antenna down to an SWR of 2 to 1 measured by a Rig Expert AA55 zoom analyzer, at the balun to which the raised wire and radial are directly attached, and ythen got the same 2.0 SWR reading at the shack end of a borrowed piece of about 50 feet of RG-213. [I recognize that 2 to 1 is not perfect by any means, but it was certainly within the range of my Elecraft equipment, I thought.]
>
> But then my K3S simply refused to tune or load into the antenna, either directly, using its internal ATU, or routed through my KPA-500 to a KAT-500 tuner. In both circumstances, the rig and/or tuner showed an SWR around 25 to 1, and tuned at best to around 16 to 1, resulting in no apparent RF output.
> After trying to fix this in various ways, I gave up on the 160M contest and turned to other pursuits, while seeking advice from several Elecraft-loving, 160M-using, friends.
>
> It finally dawned on me this morning to connect the rig to my dummy load. The result of attempting to tune and load the dummy load is exactly the same as it was trying to use the new inverted-L: initial 25 to 1 SWR, tunes down only to 16.9 to 1.
> The rig, amp, internal and external tuners, and dummy load work fine on 80M through 6M. This is my first time trying them all on 160M.
> QUESTION: Are there special configuration or other steps I need to take to operate the K3S on 160 meters? Do these symptoms suggest any other problems that you can help solve?
>

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Vic Rosenthal

Re: K3S will not load or tune on 160 M

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Rich,

Don't forget that the ANT1/ANT2 selection in the K3S is per-band. Make
sure the correct antenna is selected. That SWR reading sounds like there
is no antenna connected.

As they always say, don't ask how I know this!

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 03/12/2018 18:49, Richard Hoffman, K1DJ via Elecraft wrote:

> I put up my first 160 meter antenna last week in anticipation of
> participating in last weekend's contest. I managed to get the
> antenna -- a slow slung inverted L with a single raised radial as a
> compromise on my tiny 100 by 100 foot lot -- up in time. I then
> managed to get the antenna down to an SWR of 2 to 1 measured by a Rig
> Expert AA55 zoom analyzer, at the balun to which the raised wire and
> radial are directly attached, and ythen got the same 2.0 SWR reading
> at the shack end of a borrowed piece of about 50 feet of RG-213. [I
> recognize that 2 to 1 is not perfect by any means, but it was
> certainly within the range of my Elecraft equipment, I thought.]
>
> But then my K3S simply refused to tune or load into the antenna,
> either directly, using its internal ATU, or routed through my KPA-500
> to a KAT-500 tuner. In both circumstances, the rig and/or tuner
> showed an SWR around 25 to 1, and tuned at best to around 16 to 1,
> resulting in no apparent RF output. After trying to fix this in
> various ways, I gave up on the 160M contest and turned to other
> pursuits, while seeking advice from several Elecraft-loving,
> 160M-using, friends.
>
> It finally dawned on me this morning to connect the rig to my dummy
> load. The result of attempting to tune and load the dummy load is
> exactly the same as it was trying to use the new inverted-L: initial
> 25 to 1 SWR, tunes down only to 16.9 to 1. The rig, amp, internal and
> external tuners, and dummy load work fine on 80M through 6M. This is
> my first time trying them all on 160M. QUESTION: Are there special
> configuration or other steps I need to take to operate the K3S on 160
> meters? Do these symptoms suggest any other problems that you can
> help solve?
>
> Please advise, and thanks! 73 - Rich, K1DJScituate, MA
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list Home:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
> mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]
>

hbjr

Re: K3S will not load or tune on 160 M

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

I have a "long" 80 meter dipole that I use for 160. It is too long for 80 but not long enough for 160. At 70' above ground level, it's SWR is 3:1 on 160. My K3s (internal tuner) matches it to 1.3:1 according to the radio's display. I did not have to do anything special with the radio to make that work.

I do have a pretty good RF ground though. Before I could get any decent performance on 80 (including decent SWR), I added to my RF grounding. Where the HF coax enters the shack, the shield is pulled to ground (1' of #4 copper to an 8' copper clad ground rod). That same grounding plate is also connected to another 8' ground rod about 15' away which is right below the service entrance to the house. A piece of #4 connects from that ground rod to the electric meter base. All of the #4 is buried except at connections where I've used Pentrox for CU/CU connections. The ground rod at my HF coax entrance also is tied to 2" wide copper strap that runs into the shack to a copper bar (old -48vdc grounding bar from a phone switch) and all of my equipment is tied to that bar. Under the shack where the copper strap comes in, the CATV coax and CAT 3 telephone wiring are grounded to that
strap. The CATV coax has a little 4' ground rod right at the wall entrance that is tied to the electric meter base also.

This also cured some issues on 80 meters running an RF amp where I could make the phone ring and change channels on the TV when I keyed up! All of that is fixed.

My $0.02 (and that's all it's worth :)

Hank
K4HYJ

-----Original Message-----

> From: "Richard Hoffman, K1DJ via Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: 12/03/18 12:24
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3S will not load or tune on 160 M
>
> I put up my first 160 meter antenna last week in anticipation of participating in last weekend's contest. I managed to get the antenna -- a slow slung inverted L with a single raised radial as a compromise on my tiny 100 by 100 foot lot -- up in time. I then managed to get the antenna down to an SWR of 2 to 1 measured by a Rig Expert AA55 zoom analyzer, at the balun to which the raised wire and radial are directly attached, and ythen got the same 2.0 SWR reading at the shack end of a borrowed piece of about 50 feet of RG-213. [I recognize that 2 to 1 is not perfect by any means, but it was certainly within the range of my Elecraft equipment, I thought.]
>
> But then my K3S simply refused to tune or load into the antenna, either directly, using its internal ATU, or routed through my KPA-500 to a KAT-500 tuner. In both circumstances, the rig and/or tuner showed an SWR around 25 to 1, and tuned at best to around 16 to 1, resulting in no apparent RF output.
> After trying to fix this in various ways, I gave up on the 160M contest and turned to other pursuits, while seeking advice from several Elecraft-loving, 160M-using, friends.
>
> It finally dawned on me this morning to connect the rig to my dummy load. The result of attempting to tune and load the dummy load is exactly the same as it was trying to use the new inverted-L: initial 25 to 1 SWR, tunes down only to 16.9 to 1.
> The rig, amp, internal and external tuners, and dummy load work fine on 80M through 6M. This is my first time trying them all on 160M.
> QUESTION: Are there special configuration or other steps I need to take to operate the K3S on 160 meters? Do these symptoms suggest any other problems that you can help solve?
>
> Please advise, and thanks!
> 73 -
> Rich, K1DJScituate, MA
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3S will not load or tune on 160 M/SOLVED

Thanks all for the speedy and helpful replies! Wish I had run this by you BEFORE the contest rather than after. I went back to the K3S and switched through various bands down to 160, and discovered for reasons unknown, on this band I had never used, the rig was set to “Ant 2.” Since I am using a KPA 500 and KAT 500, everything goes through Ant 1, and I had had no occasion to use the Ant switch on the K3 itself for quite a while. Switched to Ant 1 on 160M, and the inverted L tunes quickly and easily.

As they say here in Massachusetts, you guys are “wicked awesome!’

Rich

Anyway, switch to Ant 1 for 160M has apparently solved the problem!

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 3, 2018, at 12:58 PM, Hank <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I have a "long" 80 meter dipole that I use for 160. It is too long for 80 but not long enough for 160. At 70' above ground level, it's SWR is 3:1 on 160. My K3s (internal tuner) matches it to 1.3:1 according to the radio's display. I did not have to do anything special with the radio to make that work.
>
>
> I do have a pretty good RF ground though. Before I could get any decent performance on 80 (including decent SWR), I added to my RF grounding. Where the HF coax enters the shack, the shield is pulled to ground (1' of #4 copper to an 8' copper clad ground rod). That same grounding plate is also connected to another 8' ground rod about 15' away which is right below the service entrance to the house. A piece of #4 connects from that ground rod to the electric meter base. All of the #4 is buried except at connections where I've used Pentrox for CU/CU connections. The ground rod at my HF coax entrance also is tied to 2" wide copper strap that runs into the shack to a copper bar (old -48vdc grounding bar from a phone switch) and all of my equipment is tied to that bar. Under the shack where the copper strap comes in, the CATV coax and CAT 3 telephone wiring are grounded to that
> strap. The CATV coax has a little 4' ground rod right at the wall entrance that is tied to the electric meter base also.
>
>
> This also cured some issues on 80 meters running an RF amp where I could make the phone ring and change channels on the TV when I keyed up! All of that is fixed.
>
>
> My $0.02 (and that's all it's worth :)
>
>
> Hank
> K4HYJ
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Richard Hoffman, K1DJ via Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: 12/03/18 12:24
>> Subject: [Elecraft] K3S will not load or tune on 160 M
>>
>> I put up my first 160 meter antenna last week in anticipation of participating in last weekend's contest. I managed to get the antenna -- a slow slung inverted L with a single raised radial as a compromise on my tiny 100 by 100 foot lot -- up in time. I then managed to get the antenna down to an SWR of 2 to 1 measured by a Rig Expert AA55 zoom analyzer, at the balun to which the raised wire and radial are directly attached, and ythen got the same 2.0 SWR reading at the shack end of a borrowed piece of about 50 feet of RG-213. [I recognize that 2 to 1 is not perfect by any means, but it was certainly within the range of my Elecraft equipment, I thought.]
>>
>> But then my K3S simply refused to tune or load into the antenna, either directly, using its internal ATU, or routed through my KPA-500 to a KAT-500 tuner. In both circumstances, the rig and/or tuner showed an SWR around 25 to 1, and tuned at best to around 16 to 1, resulting in no apparent RF output.
>> After trying to fix this in various ways, I gave up on the 160M contest and turned to other pursuits, while seeking advice from several Elecraft-loving, 160M-using, friends.
>>
>> It finally dawned on me this morning to connect the rig to my dummy load. The result of attempting to tune and load the dummy load is exactly the same as it was trying to use the new inverted-L: initial 25 to 1 SWR, tunes down only to 16.9 to 1.
>> The rig, amp, internal and external tuners, and dummy load work fine on 80M through 6M. This is my first time trying them all on 160M.
>> QUESTION: Are there special configuration or other steps I need to take to operate the K3S on 160 meters? Do these symptoms suggest any other problems that you can help solve?
>>
>> Please advise, and thanks!
>> 73 -
>> Rich, K1DJScituate, MA
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3S will not load or tune on 160 M

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

No special configurations. Make sure you have the correct antenna
ports selected via the K3S and the KAT500. And since the dummy load
shows a high SWR, I would first suspect the coax jumper out of the radio
to what ever is next in line.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 12/3/2018 10:49 AM, Richard Hoffman, K1DJ via Elecraft wrote:

> I put up my first 160 meter antenna last week in anticipation of participating in last weekend's contest. I managed to get the antenna -- a slow slung inverted L with a single raised radial as a compromise on my tiny 100 by 100 foot lot -- up in time. I then managed to get the antenna down to an SWR of 2 to 1 measured by a Rig Expert AA55 zoom analyzer, at the balun to which the raised wire and radial are directly attached, and ythen got the same 2.0 SWR reading at the shack end of a borrowed piece of about 50 feet of RG-213. [I recognize that 2 to 1 is not perfect by any means, but it was certainly within the range of my Elecraft equipment, I thought.]
>
> But then my K3S simply refused to tune or load into the antenna, either directly, using its internal ATU, or routed through my KPA-500 to a KAT-500 tuner. In both circumstances, the rig and/or tuner showed an SWR around 25 to 1, and tuned at best to around 16 to 1, resulting in no apparent RF output.
> After trying to fix this in various ways, I gave up on the 160M contest and turned to other pursuits, while seeking advice from several Elecraft-loving, 160M-using, friends.
>
> It finally dawned on me this morning to connect the rig to my dummy load. The result of attempting to tune and load the dummy load is exactly the same as it was trying to use the new inverted-L: initial 25 to 1 SWR, tunes down only to 16.9 to 1.
> The rig, amp, internal and external tuners, and dummy load work fine on 80M through 6M. This is my first time trying them all on 160M.
> QUESTION: Are there special configuration or other steps I need to take to operate the K3S on 160 meters? Do these symptoms suggest any other problems that you can help solve?
>
> Please advise, and thanks!
> 73 -
> Rich, K1DJScituate, MA
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

hbjr

Re: K3S will not load or tune on 160 M/SOLVED

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Easy is good!!!

From: K1dj
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 2:06 PM
To: Hank
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S will not load or tune on 160 M/SOLVED

Thanks all for the speedy and helpful replies! Wish I had run this by you BEFORE the contest rather than after. I went back to the K3S and switched through various bands down to 160, and discovered for reasons unknown, on this band I had never used, the rig was set to “Ant 2.” Since I am using a KPA 500 and KAT 500, everything goes through Ant 1, and I had had no occasion to use the Ant switch on the K3 itself for quite a while. Switched to Ant 1 on 160M, and the inverted L tunes quickly and easily.

As they say here in Massachusetts, you guys are “wicked awesome!’

Rich

Anyway, switch to Ant 1 for 160M has apparently solved the problem!

Sent from my iPad

KENT TRIMBLE

Re: K3S will not load or tune on 160 M/SOLVED

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Rich . . .

Don't flagellate yourself too much. One of our 6-meter ops blew his
K3's finals on Field day a few years ago by inadvertently tapping the
ANT button instead of the ATU TUNE button which is directly above it.
Background noise on 50 MHz. being noticeably lower than on HF, he was
unaware he was transmitting on Antenna 2 (which had no antenna) and
after calling CQ for 15 minutes at 100 watts his finals went to heaven.

He now hooks up a dummy load on ANT 2 when using only one antenna.

This is an important "gotcha" of which all K3 owners should be
cognizant, especially when non-K3 owners are operating the rig.

73,

Kent K9ZTV

On 12/3/2018 7:54 PM, someone wrote:
> I ... discovered ... the rig was set to “Ant 2.”

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3S will not load or tune on 160 M/SOLVED

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

As a rule for many reasons, if you do not use ANT 2 with an antenna
connected then by all means, put a dummy load on it. Even a 10W or 20W
rated load. It will save you much grief, frustration, and likely your
PA.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 12/3/2018 7:54 PM, HB wrote:

> Easy is good!!!
>
>
> From: K1dj
> Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 2:06 PM
> To: Hank
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S will not load or tune on 160 M/SOLVED
>
> Thanks all for the speedy and helpful replies! Wish I had run this by you BEFORE the contest rather than after. I went back to the K3S and switched through various bands down to 160, and discovered for reasons unknown, on this band I had never used, the rig was set to “Ant 2.” Since I am using a KPA 500 and KAT 500, everything goes through Ant 1, and I had had no occasion to use the Ant switch on the K3 itself for quite a while. Switched to Ant 1 on 160M, and the inverted L tunes quickly and easily.
>
> As they say here in Massachusetts, you guys are “wicked awesome!’
>
> Rich
>
> Anyway, switch to Ant 1 for 160M has apparently solved the problem!
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Dec 3, 2018, at 12:58 PM, Hank <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I have a "long" 80 meter dipole that I use for 160. It is too long for 80 but not long enough for 160. At 70' above ground level, it's SWR is 3:1 on 160. My K3s (internal tuner) matches it to 1.3:1 according to the radio's display. I did not have to do anything special with the radio to make that work.
>>
>>
>> I do have a pretty good RF ground though. Before I could get any decent performance on 80 (including decent SWR), I added to my RF grounding. Where the HF coax enters the shack, the shield is pulled to ground (1' of #4 copper to an 8' copper clad ground rod). That same grounding plate is also connected to another 8' ground rod about 15' away which is right below the service entrance to the house. A piece of #4 connects from that ground rod to the electric meter base. All of the #4 is buried except at connections where I've used Pentrox for CU/CU connections. The ground rod at my HF coax entrance also is tied to 2" wide copper strap that runs into the shack to a copper bar (old -48vdc grounding bar from a phone switch) and all of my equipment is tied to that bar. Under the shack where the copper strap comes in, the CATV coax and CAT 3 telephone wiring are grounded to that
>> strap. The CATV coax has a little 4' ground rod right at the wall entrance that is tied to the electric meter base also.
>>
>>
>> This also cured some issues on 80 meters running an RF amp where I could make the phone ring and change channels on the TV when I keyed up! All of that is fixed.
>>
>>
>> My $0.02 (and that's all it's worth :)
>>
>>
>> Hank
>> K4HYJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Richard Hoffman, K1DJ via Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Date: 12/03/18 12:24
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] K3S will not load or tune on 160 M
>>>
>>> I put up my first 160 meter antenna last week in anticipation of participating in last weekend's contest. I managed to get the antenna -- a slow slung inverted L with a single raised radial as a compromise on my tiny 100 by 100 foot lot -- up in time. I then managed to get the antenna down to an SWR of 2 to 1 measured by a Rig Expert AA55 zoom analyzer, at the balun to which the raised wire and radial are directly attached, and ythen got the same 2.0 SWR reading at the shack end of a borrowed piece of about 50 feet of RG-213. [I recognize that 2 to 1 is not perfect by any means, but it was certainly within the range of my Elecraft equipment, I thought.]
>>>
>>> But then my K3S simply refused to tune or load into the antenna, either directly, using its internal ATU, or routed through my KPA-500 to a KAT-500 tuner. In both circumstances, the rig and/or tuner showed an SWR around 25 to 1, and tuned at best to around 16 to 1, resulting in no apparent RF output.
>>> After trying to fix this in various ways, I gave up on the 160M contest and turned to other pursuits, while seeking advice from several Elecraft-loving, 160M-using, friends.
>>>
>>> It finally dawned on me this morning to connect the rig to my dummy load. The result of attempting to tune and load the dummy load is exactly the same as it was trying to use the new inverted-L: initial 25 to 1 SWR, tunes down only to 16.9 to 1.
>>> The rig, amp, internal and external tuners, and dummy load work fine on 80M through 6M. This is my first time trying them all on 160M.
>>> QUESTION: Are there special configuration or other steps I need to take to operate the K3S on 160 meters? Do these symptoms suggest any other problems that you can help solve?
>>>
>>> Please advise, and thanks!
>>> 73 -
>>> Rich, K1DJScituate, MA
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bill Frantz

Re: K3S will not load or tune on 160 M/SOLVED

And if you ignore this rule, if you hear a lot of clicking after
pressing ATU TUNE, check all the antenna switches and
connections before transmitting. Lots of clicking is frequently
a symptom of no antenna connected.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 12/4/18 at 8:46 AM, [hidden email] (Bob McGraw K4TAX) wrote:

>As a rule for many reasons, if you do not use ANT 2 with an
>antenna connected then by all means, put a dummy load on it.
>Even a 10W or 20W rated load. It will save you much grief,
>frustration, and likely your PA.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | Airline peanut bag: "Produced | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506 | in a facility that processes | 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | peanuts and other nuts." - Duh | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

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