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K3s - 80W on 160

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Gary Smith-2

K3s - 80W on 160

I usually don't run barefoot at 100W and
don't drive my amp with more than around
50W. Tonight when I tried running at 100W
on 160 I was surprised to find it only
putting out 81W. It puts out incrementally
till 81W and then even though I can adjust
the power so it reads 100W on the K3s LCD
bar and numerical display, the watt meter
in the P3 and the LP-100A both show the
wattage stopping at 81W.

With the ATU in or out it gives 81W out on
160, SWR is 1.28

All other bands except 6M give around 98W,
6M gives 87W

Any ideas what might be causing the lower
output on 160?

Thanks & 73,

Gary
KA1J

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Jim Brown-10

Re: K3s - 80W on 160

On Fri,12/16/2016 9:27 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
> With the ATU in or out it gives 81W out on 160, SWR is 1.28
>
> All other bands except 6M give around 98W, 6M gives 87W
>
> Any ideas what might be causing the lower output on 160?

81W is 0.9 dB less than 100W; 87W is 0.6 dB less than 100W. On 6M, it's
probably a simple matter of efficiency -- power amps are slightly less
efficient on 6M than on the lower bands.

And there may be a power calibration issue. There's a procedure in the
manual for doing that.

Or even error in the power measurement itself. Few power meters are
specified for better than 5%. Bird wattmeters are specified as 5% of
full scale, and a condition of that is that the slug is in calibration.
If, for example, you're using a 250W slug, accuracy is +/- 12.5W. I use
an N8LP LP100A, which specifies 5% at any power level from 1W, and
quotes 3% typical. 5% is 0.22 dB. 3% is 0.13 dB.

Low DC voltage can also be an issue, either due to the power supply
itself or IR loss in the power cable (or even the connector(s). Use the
built-in metering function to check DC voltage with just the RX running
and keydown. Short, fat copper is your friend. :)

73, Jim K9YC

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John Kaufmann-2

Re: K3s - 80W on 160

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

I had the same issue with my K3S. I was seeing 80W maximum on 160 and it
would not drive my AL1200 to full power (1500W). Redoing the power
calibration did not fix the issue.

Elecraft Tech Support told me that my K3S was within spec but that
increasing the power supply voltage could yield more power output. I ended
up increasing my supply voltage from 13.8 volts to 14.5 volts and was able
to get 90W out, which was a bit of an improvement. There is a trim pot
inside my Astron RS-35M supply that adjusts the output voltage.

73, John W1FV

------------------------------

Message: 10

Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2016 00:27:48 -0500

From: "Gary Smith" <[hidden email]>

To: [hidden email]

Subject: [Elecraft] K3s - 80W on 160

Message-ID: <[hidden email]>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

I usually don't run barefoot at 100W and

don't drive my amp with more than around

50W. Tonight when I tried running at 100W

on 160 I was surprised to find it only

putting out 81W. It puts out incrementally

till 81W and then even though I can adjust

the power so it reads 100W on the K3s LCD

bar and numerical display, the watt meter

in the P3 and the LP-100A both show the

wattage stopping at 81W.

With the ATU in or out it gives 81W out on

160, SWR is 1.28

All other bands except 6M give around 98W,

6M gives 87W

Any ideas what might be causing the lower

output on 160?

Thanks & 73,

Gary

KA1J

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Brian Hunt

Re: K3s - 80W on 160

A short story.....
I was having awful trouble with my K3 #4113 with power overshoot with band or power change on 40m especially but all bands to some degree. Also max power out on 15m was 85w. 160m unknown since I don't op there.

As you did, I upped the PS voltage and ran a TX Gain Cal and it got better for a while but wasn't a cure.

In "fix it or break it" mode, I updated the firmware to latest production version (was on 5.3.8) and reran the TX Gain Cal. Not much improvement. Thinking maybe I did something wrong, I redid the TX Gain Cal and for some reason, while in the K3 utility, ran the 50 watt cal a second time. Totally different gain values in the status listing AND problem cured! No overshoot and full output on 15m. Happy camper.

The only thing I can think is that the power of the K3 was taking longer to settle than the cal software allowed giving less than ideal results.

OK- long story and I don't know if this will help your problem but it might be worth a try. GL!

73,
Brian, K0DTJ

> On Dec 17, 2016, at 14:54, John Kaufmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I had the same issue with my K3S. I was seeing 80W maximum on 160 and it
> would not drive my AL1200 to full power (1500W). Redoing the power
> calibration did not fix the issue.
>
>
>
> Elecraft Tech Support told me that my K3S was within spec but that
> increasing the power supply voltage could yield more power output. I ended
> up increasing my supply voltage from 13.8 volts to 14.5 volts and was able
> to get 90W out, which was a bit of an improvement. There is a trim pot
> inside my Astron RS-35M supply that adjusts the output voltage.
>
>
>
> 73, John W1FV
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Message: 10
>
> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2016 00:27:48 -0500
>
> From: "Gary Smith" <[hidden email]>
>
> To: [hidden email]
>
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3s - 80W on 160
>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
>
> I usually don't run barefoot at 100W and
>
> don't drive my amp with more than around
>
> 50W. Tonight when I tried running at 100W
>
> on 160 I was surprised to find it only
>
> putting out 81W. It puts out incrementally
>
> till 81W and then even though I can adjust
>
> the power so it reads 100W on the K3s LCD
>
> bar and numerical display, the watt meter
>
> in the P3 and the LP-100A both show the
>
> wattage stopping at 81W.
>
>
>
> With the ATU in or out it gives 81W out on
>
> 160, SWR is 1.28
>
>
>
> All other bands except 6M give around 98W,
>
> 6M gives 87W
>
>
>
> Any ideas what might be causing the lower
>
> output on 160?
>
>
>
> Thanks & 73,
>
>
>
> Gary
>
> KA1J
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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AJ8MH-Radio.Joe.Hutchens

KPA500 Question

This is a question I've been wanting to ask...

I've had a KPA500 for 4 years and I've noticed that 20 meters requires
more drive. Most bands require 30 watts or less, but 20 requires 35-37
for 500 watts out. In the phone portion of 20, an SWR of 1.4:1 WILL
cause a fault. It's just real sensitive to the load on 20. I have to
use a tuner and make sure I'm close to 1.1:1. Works fine into a dummy
load, but high drive is still required.

I've lived with it, because I don't operate SSB very often on any band,
but lately I've been chasing NPOTA stations and find myself using 20 SSB.

I assembled the amp, and it's been like this from day one. Anyone else
see this on 20. Just interested.

Joe (AJ8MH)

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Don Wilhelm

Re: KPA500 Question

Joe,

The gain of any amplifier will not be constant across all bands.
If you are driving with the K3, there is a per band power setting so you
can compensate. See page 27 of the K3 manual.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/18/2016 6:08 AM, Joe Hutchens AJ8MH-Radio wrote:
> This is a question I've been wanting to ask...
>
> I've had a KPA500 for 4 years and I've noticed that 20 meters requires
> more drive. Most bands require 30 watts or less, but 20 requires 35-37
> for 500 watts out. In the phone portion of 20, an SWR of 1.4:1 WILL
> cause a fault. It's just real sensitive to the load on 20. I have to
> use a tuner and make sure I'm close to 1.1:1. Works fine into a dummy
> load, but high drive is still required.
>
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Nr4c

Re: KPA500 Question

In reply to this post by AJ8MH-Radio.Joe.Hutchens

What is your antenna like on 20 meters? Sounds more like antenna than amp.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Dec 18, 2016, at 6:08 AM, Joe Hutchens AJ8MH-Radio <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This is a question I've been wanting to ask...
>
> I've had a KPA500 for 4 years and I've noticed that 20 meters requires more drive. Most bands require 30 watts or less, but 20 requires 35-37 for 500 watts out. In the phone portion of 20, an SWR of 1.4:1 WILL cause a fault. It's just real sensitive to the load on 20. I have to use a tuner and make sure I'm close to 1.1:1. Works fine into a dummy load, but high drive is still required.
>
> I've lived with it, because I don't operate SSB very often on any band, but lately I've been chasing NPOTA stations and find myself using 20 SSB.
>
> I assembled the amp, and it's been like this from day one. Anyone else see this on 20. Just interested.
>
> Joe (AJ8MH)
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Gary Smith-2

Re: K3s - 80W on 160 - Resolved

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Hi Jim & the others who replied,

This is a follow-up for someone in the
future who looks for the same solution.

Yeah, the small amount of difference in
the wattage is insignificant but
considering all the radios I've owned, the
low end of the bands were always the
highest output. 10M was usually the lowest
output & with the K3/K3s, 6M was always as
good as the other bands watt wise and 160
was full output. This not being the case,
I was concerned.

I had done the calibration and raised the
output to 87W but that was it. As was
suggested, I raised the voltage from the
PS to give me 13.8V on transmit which
required 14.6V resting. I'm using the
cable Elecraft supplies and I'm suspecting
it could be just a tad lower gauge/thicker
copper to reduce the resistance but on
160M, I am now getting a 115W reading on
the P3 and 113W on the LP-100A.

So the increased voltage was the
difference in my case. A thicker wire
would certainly require less voltage than
14.6 and that's what I am going to look
into. With the power Pole connector, I'll
have to look a little deeper into what
will work best. I have no crimping tool
for Power Pole so that makes it more of a
challenge.

Anyway, thanks Jim & all who suggested the
higher voltage, it was the answer in this
instance.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> On Fri,12/16/2016 9:27 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
> > With the ATU in or out it gives 81W out on 160, SWR is 1.28
> >
> > All other bands except 6M give around 98W, 6M gives 87W
> >
> > Any ideas what might be causing the lower output on 160?
>
> 81W is 0.9 dB less than 100W; 87W is 0.6 dB less than 100W. On 6M,
> it's probably a simple matter of efficiency -- power amps are slightly
> less efficient on 6M than on the lower bands.
>
> And there may be a power calibration issue. There's a procedure in the
> manual for doing that.
>
> Or even error in the power measurement itself. Few power meters are
> specified for better than 5%. Bird wattmeters are specified as 5% of
> full scale, and a condition of that is that the slug is in
> calibration. If, for example, you're using a 250W slug, accuracy is
> +/- 12.5W. I use an N8LP LP100A, which specifies 5% at any power level
> from 1W, and quotes 3% typical. 5% is 0.22 dB. 3% is 0.13 dB.
>
> Low DC voltage can also be an issue, either due to the power supply
> itself or IR loss in the power cable (or even the connector(s). Use
> the built-in metering function to check DC voltage with just the RX
> running and keydown. Short, fat copper is your friend. :)
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Nr4c

Re: K3s - 80W on 160 - Resolved

PPs solder real well. Just keep the solder off the outer portion of the round part where the wire fits.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Dec 20, 2016, at 5:34 PM, Gary Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim & the others who replied,
>
> This is a follow-up for someone in the
> future who looks for the same solution.
>
> Yeah, the small amount of difference in
> the wattage is insignificant but
> considering all the radios I've owned, the
> low end of the bands were always the
> highest output. 10M was usually the lowest
> output & with the K3/K3s, 6M was always as
> good as the other bands watt wise and 160
> was full output. This not being the case,
> I was concerned.
>
> I had done the calibration and raised the
> output to 87W but that was it. As was
> suggested, I raised the voltage from the
> PS to give me 13.8V on transmit which
> required 14.6V resting. I'm using the
> cable Elecraft supplies and I'm suspecting
> it could be just a tad lower gauge/thicker
> copper to reduce the resistance but on
> 160M, I am now getting a 115W reading on
> the P3 and 113W on the LP-100A.
>
> So the increased voltage was the
> difference in my case. A thicker wire
> would certainly require less voltage than
> 14.6 and that's what I am going to look
> into. With the power Pole connector, I'll
> have to look a little deeper into what
> will work best. I have no crimping tool
> for Power Pole so that makes it more of a
> challenge.
>
> Anyway, thanks Jim & all who suggested the
> higher voltage, it was the answer in this
> instance.
>
> 73,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
>
>
>>> On Fri,12/16/2016 9:27 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
>>> With the ATU in or out it gives 81W out on 160, SWR is 1.28
>>>
>>> All other bands except 6M give around 98W, 6M gives 87W
>>>
>>> Any ideas what might be causing the lower output on 160?
>>
>> 81W is 0.9 dB less than 100W; 87W is 0.6 dB less than 100W. On 6M,
>> it's probably a simple matter of efficiency -- power amps are slightly
>> less efficient on 6M than on the lower bands.
>>
>> And there may be a power calibration issue. There's a procedure in the
>> manual for doing that.
>>
>> Or even error in the power measurement itself. Few power meters are
>> specified for better than 5%. Bird wattmeters are specified as 5% of
>> full scale, and a condition of that is that the slug is in
>> calibration. If, for example, you're using a 250W slug, accuracy is
>> +/- 12.5W. I use an N8LP LP100A, which specifies 5% at any power level
>> from 1W, and quotes 3% typical. 5% is 0.22 dB. 3% is 0.13 dB.
>>
>> Low DC voltage can also be an issue, either due to the power supply
>> itself or IR loss in the power cable (or even the connector(s). Use
>> the built-in metering function to check DC voltage with just the RX
>> running and keydown. Short, fat copper is your friend. :)
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Don Wilhelm

Re: K3s - 80W on 160 - Resolved

All the APP connector blades (inserts) that I have seen which will take
#10 or larger wire (30 amp) must be crimped. They have "fingers" that
must be bent over the wire. Use a proper crimper for PowerPoles,
substitutes will make a mess of the job and mess up the contacts.

If you wish to use a bit of solder after crimping, that should be
possible, but first crimp with a proper crimping tool.

The 20 amp contact blades can be soldered, but the largest wire they
will accept is #12.

An alternative for less voltage drop is to shorten the cable rather than
increasing the wire gauge.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/20/2016 6:29 PM, Nr4c wrote:

> PPs solder real well. Just keep the solder off the outer portion of the round part where the wire fits.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
>
>
>> On Dec 20, 2016, at 5:34 PM, Gary Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jim & the others who replied,
>>
>> This is a follow-up for someone in the
>> future who looks for the same solution.
>>
>> Yeah, the small amount of difference in
>> the wattage is insignificant but
>> considering all the radios I've owned, the
>> low end of the bands were always the
>> highest output. 10M was usually the lowest
>> output & with the K3/K3s, 6M was always as
>> good as the other bands watt wise and 160
>> was full output. This not being the case,
>> I was concerned.
>>
>> I had done the calibration and raised the
>> output to 87W but that was it. As was
>> suggested, I raised the voltage from the
>> PS to give me 13.8V on transmit which
>> required 14.6V resting. I'm using the
>> cable Elecraft supplies and I'm suspecting
>> it could be just a tad lower gauge/thicker
>> copper to reduce the resistance but on
>> 160M, I am now getting a 115W reading on
>> the P3 and 113W on the LP-100A.
>>
>> So the increased voltage was the
>> difference in my case. A thicker wire
>> would certainly require less voltage than
>> 14.6 and that's what I am going to look
>> into. With the power Pole connector, I'll
>> have to look a little deeper into what
>> will work best. I have no crimping tool
>> for Power Pole so that makes it more of a
>> challenge.
>>
>> Anyway, thanks Jim & all who suggested the
>> higher voltage, it was the answer in this
>> instance.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Gary
>> KA1J
>>
>>
>>>> On Fri,12/16/2016 9:27 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
>>>> With the ATU in or out it gives 81W out on 160, SWR is 1.28
>>>>
>>>> All other bands except 6M give around 98W, 6M gives 87W
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas what might be causing the lower output on 160?
>>>
>>> 81W is 0.9 dB less than 100W; 87W is 0.6 dB less than 100W. On 6M,
>>> it's probably a simple matter of efficiency -- power amps are slightly
>>> less efficient on 6M than on the lower bands.
>>>
>>> And there may be a power calibration issue. There's a procedure in the
>>> manual for doing that.
>>>
>>> Or even error in the power measurement itself. Few power meters are
>>> specified for better than 5%. Bird wattmeters are specified as 5% of
>>> full scale, and a condition of that is that the slug is in
>>> calibration. If, for example, you're using a 250W slug, accuracy is
>>> +/- 12.5W. I use an N8LP LP100A, which specifies 5% at any power level
>>> from 1W, and quotes 3% typical. 5% is 0.22 dB. 3% is 0.13 dB.
>>>
>>> Low DC voltage can also be an issue, either due to the power supply
>>> itself or IR loss in the power cable (or even the connector(s). Use
>>> the built-in metering function to check DC voltage with just the RX
>>> running and keydown. Short, fat copper is your friend. :)
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Raymond Sills

Re: K3s - 80W on 160 - Resolved

I’ll agree with Don: If you are going to use Andersen Power Pole connectors, you have to commit to getting a proper (yes, a proper) crimper. Yeah, they are not cheap, but the savings of time and frustration in assembling the connectors is worth the price. And, like any good tool, it’ll have value in the second hand market, should you decide you don’t need it any more. I’ll let my heirs dispose of my crimper.

73 de Ray
K2ULR
KX3 #211

> On Dec 20, 2016, at 8:13 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> All the APP connector blades (inserts) that I have seen which will take #10 or larger wire (30 amp) must be crimped. They have "fingers" that must be bent over the wire. Use a proper crimper for PowerPoles, substitutes will make a mess of the job and mess up the contacts.
>
> If you wish to use a bit of solder after crimping, that should be possible, but first crimp with a proper crimping tool.
>
> The 20 amp contact blades can be soldered, but the largest wire they will accept is #12.
>
> An alternative for less voltage drop is to shorten the cable rather than increasing the wire gauge.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: K3s - 80W on 160 - Resolved

I use PowerPole connectors for all DC wiring, not only in the shack, but
also throughout the house, and including the dozens of accessories and
appliances that run on outboard DC supplies. While a "proper crimper" is
helpful, I've installed hundreds of pairs of power pole connectors using
nothing more than a soldering iron, needle-nose pliers, and a good bench
vise. The bench vise holds the cable in place while I'm soldering. I
use the needle-nose pliers to carefully crimp the biggest (30A) pins. I
don't crimp the smaller pins. I do tin the copper before soldering.

The 30A pins are the only ones that are difficult, and then only when
fitting big wire into them. I use stranded cable for DC power wiring;
for the few that are #8, I remove a few strands at the connector to make
it fit. I then carefully re-twist it and tin it before crimping with the
pliers.

73, Jim K9YC

On Wed,12/21/2016 6:01 AM, Ray Sills wrote:
> If you are going to use Andersen Power Pole connectors, you have to commit to getting a proper (yes, a proper) crimper.

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Dave Fugleberg

Re: K3s - 80W on 160 - Resolved

In the past I installed quite a few power poles with a crimper that was not
designed for it. Then a friend bought the purpose-built crimper, which I
borrowed several times. HUGE difference. Makes it almost fun!
My dear wife took note of this, and conspired with my friend to get one
under the tree last Christmas. Now we're all happy.
The purpose built crimper is much faster, but more importantly it makes
much better quality connections, and they always slip easily into the
plastic housing because the crimps are perfectly formed. Proper tools are
well worth the investment ( as is my dear wife).
73 de W0ZF
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 11:46 AM Walter Underwood <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> One more option—Powerwerx has pre-made cables and will make custom cables.
>
> https://powerwerx.com/adapter-extension-cables <
> https://powerwerx.com/adapter-extension-cables>
> https://powerwerx.com/custom-dc-power-cables <
> https://powerwerx.com/custom-dc-power-cables>
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
> > On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:22 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > I use PowerPole connectors for all DC wiring, not only in the shack, but
> also throughout the house, and including the dozens of accessories and
> appliances that run on outboard DC supplies. While a "proper crimper" is
> helpful, I've installed hundreds of pairs of power pole connectors using
> nothing more than a soldering iron, needle-nose pliers, and a good bench
> vise. The bench vise holds the cable in place while I'm soldering. I use
> the needle-nose pliers to carefully crimp the biggest (30A) pins. I don't
> crimp the smaller pins. I do tin the copper before soldering.
> >
> > The 30A pins are the only ones that are difficult, and then only when
> fitting big wire into them. I use stranded cable for DC power wiring; for
> the few that are #8, I remove a few strands at the connector to make it
> fit. I then carefully re-twist it and tin it before crimping with the
> pliers.
> >
> > 73, Jim K9YC
> >
> > On Wed,12/21/2016 6:01 AM, Ray Sills wrote:
> >> If you are going to use Andersen Power Pole connectors, you have to
> commit to getting a proper (yes, a proper) crimper.
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
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> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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John Kaufmann-2

Re: K3s - 80W on 160 - Resolved

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

I use a 6-foot run of 10 gauge cable between my power supply (the Astron
RS-35M) and my K3S. With my Fluke DVM, I measured the voltage difference
between the power supply output terminals and the Power Pole terminals
inside the radio. The difference is only .03 or .04 volts under maximum
current draw when transmitting at full power. In other words, the voltage
drop across the entire length of the 10 gauge cable is negligible. There is
no benefit to using a large gauge wire unless you are using a really long
(>> 6 feet) cable.

73, John W1FV

-----------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 17:34:59 -0500

From: "Gary Smith" <[hidden email]>

To: [hidden email]

Cc: [hidden email]

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3s - 80W on 160 - Resolved

Message-ID: <[hidden email]>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Hi Jim & the others who replied,

This is a follow-up for someone in the

future who looks for the same solution.

Yeah, the small amount of difference in

the wattage is insignificant but

considering all the radios I've owned, the

low end of the bands were always the

highest output. 10M was usually the lowest

output & with the K3/K3s, 6M was always as

good as the other bands watt wise and 160

was full output. This not being the case,

I was concerned.

I had done the calibration and raised the

output to 87W but that was it. As was

suggested, I raised the voltage from the

PS to give me 13.8V on transmit which

required 14.6V resting. I'm using the

cable Elecraft supplies and I'm suspecting

it could be just a tad lower gauge/thicker

copper to reduce the resistance but on

160M, I am now getting a 115W reading on

the P3 and 113W on the LP-100A.

So the increased voltage was the

difference in my case. A thicker wire

would certainly require less voltage than

14.6 and that's what I am going to look

into. With the power Pole connector, I'll

have to look a little deeper into what

will work best. I have no crimping tool

for Power Pole so that makes it more of a

challenge.

Anyway, thanks Jim & all who suggested the

higher voltage, it was the answer in this

instance.

73,

Gary

KA1J

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Nr4c

Re: K3s - 80W on 160 - Resolved

Don't forget to multiply by two, current makes the round trip.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:19 PM, John Kaufmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I use a 6-foot run of 10 gauge cable between my power supply (the Astron
> RS-35M) and my K3S. With my Fluke DVM, I measured the voltage difference
> between the power supply output terminals and the Power Pole terminals
> inside the radio. The difference is only .03 or .04 volts under maximum
> current draw when transmitting at full power. In other words, the voltage
> drop across the entire length of the 10 gauge cable is negligible. There is
> no benefit to using a large gauge wire unless you are using a really long
> (>> 6 feet) cable.
>
>
>
> 73, John W1FV
>
>
>
> -----------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 17:34:59 -0500
>
> From: "Gary Smith" <[hidden email]>
>
> To: [hidden email]
>
> Cc: [hidden email]
>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3s - 80W on 160 - Resolved
>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
>
> Hi Jim & the others who replied,
>
>
>
> This is a follow-up for someone in the
>
> future who looks for the same solution.
>
>
>
> Yeah, the small amount of difference in
>
> the wattage is insignificant but
>
> considering all the radios I've owned, the
>
> low end of the bands were always the
>
> highest output. 10M was usually the lowest
>
> output & with the K3/K3s, 6M was always as
>
> good as the other bands watt wise and 160
>
> was full output. This not being the case,
>
> I was concerned.
>
>
>
> I had done the calibration and raised the
>
> output to 87W but that was it. As was
>
> suggested, I raised the voltage from the
>
> PS to give me 13.8V on transmit which
>
> required 14.6V resting. I'm using the
>
> cable Elecraft supplies and I'm suspecting
>
> it could be just a tad lower gauge/thicker
>
> copper to reduce the resistance but on
>
> 160M, I am now getting a 115W reading on
>
> the P3 and 113W on the LP-100A.
>
>
>
> So the increased voltage was the
>
> difference in my case. A thicker wire
>
> would certainly require less voltage than
>
> 14.6 and that's what I am going to look
>
> into. With the power Pole connector, I'll
>
> have to look a little deeper into what
>
> will work best. I have no crimping tool
>
> for Power Pole so that makes it more of a
>
> challenge.
>
>
>
> Anyway, thanks Jim & all who suggested the
>
> higher voltage, it was the answer in this
>
> instance.
>
>
>
> 73,
>
>
>
> Gary
>
> KA1J
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bill W4ZV

Re: K3s - 80W on 160 - Resolved

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

"A thicker wire
would certainly require less voltage than
14.6 and that's what I am going to look
into."

Another reason to run higher voltage is improved IMD performance on SSB transmit. Lots of info available from previous threads. I've been running 14.5 at the K3 terminals on multiple units for over 5 years with no problems.

73, Bill W4ZV

Jim Brown-10

Re: K3s - 80W on 160 - Resolved

On Thu,12/22/2016 3:59 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote:
> Another reason to run higher voltage is improved IMD performance on SSB
> transmit. Lots of info available from previous threads. I've been running
> 14.5 at the K3 terminals on multiple units for over 5 years with no
> problems.

Bill,

IMD also affects CW. What we call CW is not "continuous wave," it is a
continuous wave that is 100% modulated by a rectangular wave. That
rectangular wave is rich in harmonics, and excites IMD. We hear it as
clicks. This can be clearly seen on slides 8-16 of
http://k9yc.com/P3_Spectrum_Measurements.pdf Slides 8, 9,and11 show the
spectrum of a real "continuous wave" -- that is, a steady, unkeyed
carrier. Slides 14-16 show the spectrum of dits at about 30 wpm. The
difference is the keying sidebands, and those humps down below -50 dBC
are IMD.

73, Jim K9YC

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K9MA

Re: K3s - 80W on 160 - Resolved

On 12/22/2016 11:40, Jim Brown wrote:
> IMD also affects CW. What we call CW is not "continuous wave," it is a
> continuous wave that is 100% modulated by a rectangular wave. That
> rectangular wave is rich in harmonics, and excites IMD. We hear it as
> clicks.
It would be interesting to see how much IMD it takes to significantly
increase key clicks of a "clean" keyed CW signal, like that of the K3.
I'd expect the effect to be small, compared to that on an SSB signal for
the same level of IMD, but I could be wrong. I suppose a simple test
would be to have a local friend with a P3 watch the signal as I turned
down the supply voltage on my K3. Has anyone tried anything like that?

73,

Scott K9MA

--
Scott K9MA

[hidden email]

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Nr4c

Re: K3s - 80W on 160 - Resolved

Check with Jim Brown K9YC.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Dec 22, 2016, at 4:10 PM, K9MA <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 12/22/2016 11:40, Jim Brown wrote:
>> IMD also affects CW. What we call CW is not "continuous wave," it is a continuous wave that is 100% modulated by a rectangular wave. That rectangular wave is rich in harmonics, and excites IMD. We hear it as clicks.
> It would be interesting to see how much IMD it takes to significantly increase key clicks of a "clean" keyed CW signal, like that of the K3. I'd expect the effect to be small, compared to that on an SSB signal for the same level of IMD, but I could be wrong. I suppose a simple test would be to have a local friend with a P3 watch the signal as I turned down the supply voltage on my K3. Has anyone tried anything like that?
>
> 73,
>
> Scott K9MA
>
>
> --
> Scott K9MA
>
> [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Vic Rosenthal

IMD and CW (was: Re: K3s - 80W on 160 - Resolved)

In reply to this post by K9MA

I didn't exactly do this, but I did investigate the effects of distortion on CW signals. I disconnected my P3 from the K3 and set the IF to 7 MHz. so it would act like a standalone spectrum analyzer.
I was interested in whether a class-C amplifier I had built would sharpen the keying enough to create noticeable clicks. The amplifier used minimal fixed bias to allow a small amount of resting plate current in transmit mode, with full class-C operating bias provided by a grid resistor.
I noted a broadening of the base of the signal on the P3, indicating that the signal was not as clean as the K3 alone. But listening with another receiver on either side of the S9+30 dB signal didn't reveal audible clicks. I also asked other operators to listen and there were no reports of clicks.
I am sure that attempting to use that amplifier (a pair of 813s) on SSB would have gotten me ridden out of town on a rail!

Vic 4X6GP

> On 22 Dec 2016, at 23:10, K9MA <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 12/22/2016 11:40, Jim Brown wrote:
>> IMD also affects CW. What we call CW is not "continuous wave," it is a continuous wave that is 100% modulated by a rectangular wave. That rectangular wave is rich in harmonics, and excites IMD. We hear it as clicks.
> It would be interesting to see how much IMD it takes to significantly increase key clicks of a "clean" keyed CW signal, like that of the K3. I'd expect the effect to be small, compared to that on an SSB signal for the same level of IMD, but I could be wrong. I suppose a simple test would be to have a local friend with a P3 watch the signal as I turned down the supply voltage on my K3. Has anyone tried anything like that?
>
> 73,
>
> Scott K9MA
>
>
> --
> Scott K9MA
>
> [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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