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K3s Hearing low level rear speaker audio with SPKR+PH no and low AF set

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ng7m

K3s Hearing low level rear speaker audio with SPKR+PH no and low AF set

I just noticed that I have low audio output on my K3s rear speaker out when
CONFIG->SPKR+PH is set to no. I always chalked this up to being able to
hear audio from my headphones sitting on the left side of the desk here,
but I'm getting a low audio out of primarily the left speaker still when
spkr+ph is off. I'm going out of the speaker output on the K3s KIO3B into
some high end speakers, but I can duplicate the issue with a pair of
headphones too. So it's not the amplified speakers picking something stray
up.

The CONFIG AF GAIN is LO and when I switch between LO and HI, the output
gets louder with the SPKR+PH off. The output is primarily on the left
channel too? Scratching my head. A bad relay on the KIO3B? When I switch
the SPKR+PH to ON, all is well for the left/right output on the output and
of course the volume / AF level goes way up like it should.

By the way, I have SPKRS set to 2 as expected. Hmmm... am I missing
something obvious here? RTFM? :)

Max NG7M

--
M. George
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Nr4c

Re: K3s Hearing low level rear speaker audio with SPKR+PH no and low AF set

I commented on this over a year ago and was tole that it was not possible. BUT IT STILL DOES IT!

Thanks for your input.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Mar 5, 2017, at 8:43 PM, M. George <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I just noticed that I have low audio output on my K3s rear speaker out when
> CONFIG->SPKR+PH is set to no. I always chalked this up to being able to
> hear audio from my headphones sitting on the left side of the desk here,
> but I'm getting a low audio out of primarily the left speaker still when
> spkr+ph is off. I'm going out of the speaker output on the K3s KIO3B into
> some high end speakers, but I can duplicate the issue with a pair of
> headphones too. So it's not the amplified speakers picking something stray
> up.
>
> The CONFIG AF GAIN is LO and when I switch between LO and HI, the output
> gets louder with the SPKR+PH off. The output is primarily on the left
> channel too? Scratching my head. A bad relay on the KIO3B? When I switch
> the SPKR+PH to ON, all is well for the left/right output on the output and
> of course the volume / AF level goes way up like it should.
>
> By the way, I have SPKRS set to 2 as expected. Hmmm... am I missing
> something obvious here? RTFM? :)
>
> Max NG7M
>
> --
> M. George
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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ng7m

Re: K3s Hearing low level rear speaker audio with SPKR+PH no and low AF set

Bill, I was beginning to wonder if anyone would comment. Thanks for taking
the time to reply. The problem is real and it's not trivial. This morning
I pulled out every connection on my K3s and even unconnected the ground.
Nothing changes. Even with the antenna not connected, you can hear white
noise, primarily out of the left channel. The level on the right channel
is just not as pronounced. Again, the CONFIG AF level is low and if I turn
up the AF gain even half way, I can hear receiver output. Something is not
right here.

Off to work for now, but I'll make a video of this tonight and post it. I
still have a second K3 and if needs be, I'll hook it up to compare.

Max NG7M

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 10:22 PM, Nr4c <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I commented on this over a year ago and was tole that it was not possible.
> BUT IT STILL DOES IT!
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
>
>
> > On Mar 5, 2017, at 8:43 PM, M. George <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > I just noticed that I have low audio output on my K3s rear speaker out
> when
> > CONFIG->SPKR+PH is set to no. I always chalked this up to being able to
> > hear audio from my headphones sitting on the left side of the desk here,
> > but I'm getting a low audio out of primarily the left speaker still when
> > spkr+ph is off. I'm going out of the speaker output on the K3s KIO3B
> into
> > some high end speakers, but I can duplicate the issue with a pair of
> > headphones too. So it's not the amplified speakers picking something
> stray
> > up.
> >
> > The CONFIG AF GAIN is LO and when I switch between LO and HI, the output
> > gets louder with the SPKR+PH off. The output is primarily on the left
> > channel too? Scratching my head. A bad relay on the KIO3B? When I
> switch
> > the SPKR+PH to ON, all is well for the left/right output on the output
> and
> > of course the volume / AF level goes way up like it should.
> >
> > By the way, I have SPKRS set to 2 as expected. Hmmm... am I missing
> > something obvious here? RTFM? :)
> >
> > Max NG7M
> >
> > --
> > M. George
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

--
M. George
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Don Wilhelm

Re: K3s Hearing low level rear speaker audio with SPKR+PH no and low AF set

Max,

Is it not easy to adjust the relative volume from the main and subRX
using the concentric AF Gain knobs? They do not have to be "locked
together". The separate controls must be there for a reason.
For instance, some have more hearing loss in one ear as compared to the
other and different volume levels is desirable.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/6/2017 9:11 AM, M. George wrote:
> Bill, I was beginning to wonder if anyone would comment. Thanks for taking
> the time to reply. The problem is real and it's not trivial. This morning
> I pulled out every connection on my K3s and even unconnected the ground.
> Nothing changes. Even with the antenna not connected, you can hear white
> noise, primarily out of the left channel.
______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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ng7m

Re: K3s Hearing low level rear speaker audio with SPKR+PH no and low AF set

Hi Don, thanks for jumping in, this isn't an issue of hearing loss, nor is
it a problem of subRX AF audio. The problem is that the rear speaker
output on the KIO3B has audio on it after turning SPKR+PH to 'no'. I can
sit at the radio and copy CW for example from the speaker output when there
should be NONE and the level is most pronounced from the left channel.
Bill apparently tried to get some legs on this issue a year ago per his
post. I have AFX off by the way, it's nothing to do with AFX either.

I don't have the subRX on either. I'll make a video of the problem this
evening. It's not like it's a low, low AF output from the rear speaker out
(when the output should be off / zero), the output is real and it's the
main receiver output.

Max NG7M

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Max,
>
> Is it not easy to adjust the relative volume from the main and subRX using
> the concentric AF Gain knobs? They do not have to be "locked together".
> The separate controls must be there for a reason.
> For instance, some have more hearing loss in one ear as compared to the
> other and different volume levels is desirable.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> On 3/6/2017 9:11 AM, M. George wrote:
>
>> Bill, I was beginning to wonder if anyone would comment. Thanks for
>> taking
>> the time to reply. The problem is real and it's not trivial. This
>> morning
>> I pulled out every connection on my K3s and even unconnected the ground.
>> Nothing changes. Even with the antenna not connected, you can hear white
>> noise, primarily out of the left channel.
>>
>

Nr4c

Re: K3s Hearing low level rear speaker audio with SPKR+PH no and low AF set

In reply to this post by ng7m

This has only been a problem with my K3S, my K3 doesn't exhibit this anomaly.

I frequently operate after wife goes to bed and I want the speakers OFF. but the left one never really is OFF. Only much reduced output.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Mar 6, 2017, at 9:11 AM, M. George <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Bill, I was beginning to wonder if anyone would comment. Thanks for taking the time to reply. The problem is real and it's not trivial. This morning I pulled out every connection on my K3s and even unconnected the ground. Nothing changes. Even with the antenna not connected, you can hear white noise, primarily out of the left channel. The level on the right channel is just not as pronounced. Again, the CONFIG AF level is low and if I turn up the AF gain even half way, I can hear receiver output. Something is not right here.
>
> Off to work for now, but I'll make a video of this tonight and post it. I still have a second K3 and if needs be, I'll hook it up to compare.
>
> Max NG7M
>
>> On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 10:22 PM, Nr4c <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I commented on this over a year ago and was tole that it was not possible. BUT IT STILL DOES IT!
>>
>> Thanks for your input.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ...nr4c. bill
>>
>>
>> > On Mar 5, 2017, at 8:43 PM, M. George <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > I just noticed that I have low audio output on my K3s rear speaker out when
>> > CONFIG->SPKR+PH is set to no. I always chalked this up to being able to
>> > hear audio from my headphones sitting on the left side of the desk here,
>> > but I'm getting a low audio out of primarily the left speaker still when
>> > spkr+ph is off. I'm going out of the speaker output on the K3s KIO3B into
>> > some high end speakers, but I can duplicate the issue with a pair of
>> > headphones too. So it's not the amplified speakers picking something stray
>> > up.
>> >
>> > The CONFIG AF GAIN is LO and when I switch between LO and HI, the output
>> > gets louder with the SPKR+PH off. The output is primarily on the left
>> > channel too? Scratching my head. A bad relay on the KIO3B? When I switch
>> > the SPKR+PH to ON, all is well for the left/right output on the output and
>> > of course the volume / AF level goes way up like it should.
>> >
>> > By the way, I have SPKRS set to 2 as expected. Hmmm... am I missing
>> > something obvious here? RTFM? :)
>> >
>> > Max NG7M
>> >
>> > --
>> > M. George
>> > ______________________________________________________________
>> > Elecraft mailing list
>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>> >
>> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>
>
> --
> M. George

ng7m

Re: K3s Hearing low level rear speaker audio with SPKR+PH no and low AF set

Same problem here Bill. I never noticed this on my K3. I sent an email to
Elecraft support. I'll see what Elecraft support comes back with. As you
mention, the output is not super low either... anyone in the room could
hear it. Primarily on the left channel, but the output is on the right
channel too, just much lower. We have the exact same issue, there is no
question about it.

Max NG7M

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Nr4c <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This has only been a problem with my K3S, my K3 doesn't exhibit this
> anomaly.
>
> I frequently operate after wife goes to bed and I want the speakers OFF.
> but the left one never really is OFF. Only much reduced output.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
>
>
> On Mar 6, 2017, at 9:11 AM, M. George <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Bill, I was beginning to wonder if anyone would comment. Thanks for
> taking the time to reply. The problem is real and it's not trivial. This
> morning I pulled out every connection on my K3s and even unconnected the
> ground. Nothing changes. Even with the antenna not connected, you can
> hear white noise, primarily out of the left channel. The level on the
> right channel is just not as pronounced. Again, the CONFIG AF level is low
> and if I turn up the AF gain even half way, I can hear receiver output.
> Something is not right here.
>
> Off to work for now, but I'll make a video of this tonight and post it. I
> still have a second K3 and if needs be, I'll hook it up to compare.
>
> Max NG7M
>
> On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 10:22 PM, Nr4c <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I commented on this over a year ago and was tole that it was not
>> possible. BUT IT STILL DOES IT!
>>
>> Thanks for your input.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ...nr4c. bill
>>
>>
>> > On Mar 5, 2017, at 8:43 PM, M. George <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I just noticed that I have low audio output on my K3s rear speaker out
>> when
>> > CONFIG->SPKR+PH is set to no. I always chalked this up to being able to
>> > hear audio from my headphones sitting on the left side of the desk here,
>> > but I'm getting a low audio out of primarily the left speaker still when
>> > spkr+ph is off. I'm going out of the speaker output on the K3s KIO3B
>> into
>> > some high end speakers, but I can duplicate the issue with a pair of
>> > headphones too. So it's not the amplified speakers picking something
>> stray
>> > up.
>> >
>> > The CONFIG AF GAIN is LO and when I switch between LO and HI, the output
>> > gets louder with the SPKR+PH off. The output is primarily on the left
>> > channel too? Scratching my head. A bad relay on the KIO3B? When I
>> switch
>> > the SPKR+PH to ON, all is well for the left/right output on the output
>> and
>> > of course the volume / AF level goes way up like it should.
>> >
>> > By the way, I have SPKRS set to 2 as expected. Hmmm... am I missing
>> > something obvious here? RTFM? :)
>> >
>> > Max NG7M
>> >
>> > --
>> > M. George
>> > ______________________________________________________________
>> > Elecraft mailing list
>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>> >
>> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> M. George
>
>

Nr4c

Re: K3s Hearing low level rear speaker audio with SPKR+PH no and low AF set

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

Don

I don't think it's anything to do with control settings.

This concerns my K3S s/n 10069.

My BIG (rear) AF control is set to be a Fader between Main and Sub receivers. With it 'centered', AF gain at a comfortable listening level (9:00) and Spurs+ph to NO I hear copiable audio from the left speaker. BTW: SPKR set to 2.

It seems like bleed-through maybe.

Note that my old K3 doesn't do this. Only my K3S.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Mar 6, 2017, at 9:23 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Max,
>
> Is it not easy to adjust the relative volume from the main and subRX using the concentric AF Gain knobs? They do not have to be "locked together". The separate controls must be there for a reason.
> For instance, some have more hearing loss in one ear as compared to the other and different volume levels is desirable.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>> On 3/6/2017 9:11 AM, M. George wrote:
>> Bill, I was beginning to wonder if anyone would comment. Thanks for taking
>> the time to reply. The problem is real and it's not trivial. This morning
>> I pulled out every connection on my K3s and even unconnected the ground.
>> Nothing changes. Even with the antenna not connected, you can hear white
>> noise, primarily out of the left channel.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

KK1W

Re: K3s Hearing low level rear speaker audio with SPKR+PH no and low AF set

I have similar issues with K3s #10120.

Setup:

K3s
Amplified stereo speakers connected to SPKRS jack of the KIO3B
Heil headset plugged into PHONES jack of the KIO3B
CONFIG: SPKRS = 2
CONFIG: SPKR+PH = YES

This works as expected. I have stereo audio in the headphones AND the external speakers.

When I change CONFIG: SPKR+PH = NO I still have low level audio coming from BOTH of the stereo speakers. Headphone volume is normal.
The left speaker seems to be slightly louder than the right speaker. Adjusting the BALANCE control will alter the balance of the two speakers. There isn't any adjustment of the balance that doesn't produce some audio from one or both of the connected speakers.

When there isn't a patch cord connected to SPKRS and the internal speaker is opeating there is NO audio coming from the internal speaker when CONFIG: SPKR+PH = NO. This is exactly what is expected and NOT what happens when external speakers are connected.

Not owning an original K3 I've assumed this is just 'something I have to live with' with the K3s. Admittedly it isn't a huge problem but there really shouldn't be ANY output from the SPKRS jack when CONFIG: SPKR+PH = NO.

Just adding my observations to the thread,

Jim/KK1W

Ken Wagner K3IU

Re: K3s Hearing low level rear speaker audio with SPKR+PH no and low AF set

In reply to this post by Nr4c

You might try tapping "1" when in CONFIG>SPKR+PH to display
"PH.R SW-". That fixed mine so that when SPKR+PH was YES,
plugging the phones in the REAR phone jack caused the
external speakers to be muted. If the PH.R+ was selected,
the speakers did NOT mute when the phones were plugged into
the Rear Panel, but did mute when thephones were plugged
into the Front Panel.

73,
Ken K3IU
K3s #10691
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On 3/6/2017 10:30 AM, M. George wrote:

> Same problem here Bill. I never noticed this on my K3. I sent an email to
> Elecraft support. I'll see what Elecraft support comes back with. As you
> mention, the output is not super low either... anyone in the room could
> hear it. Primarily on the left channel, but the output is on the right
> channel too, just much lower. We have the exact same issue, there is no
> question about it.
>
> Max NG7M
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Nr4c <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> This has only been a problem with my K3S, my K3 doesn't exhibit this
>> anomaly.
>>
>> I frequently operate after wife goes to bed and I want the speakers OFF.
>> but the left one never really is OFF. Only much reduced output.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ...nr4c. bill
>>
>>
>> On Mar 6, 2017, at 9:11 AM, M. George <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Bill, I was beginning to wonder if anyone would comment. Thanks for
>> taking the time to reply. The problem is real and it's not trivial. This
>> morning I pulled out every connection on my K3s and even unconnected the
>> ground. Nothing changes. Even with the antenna not connected, you can
>> hear white noise, primarily out of the left channel. The level on the
>> right channel is just not as pronounced. Again, the CONFIG AF level is low
>> and if I turn up the AF gain even half way, I can hear receiver output.
>> Something is not right here.
>>
>> Off to work for now, but I'll make a video of this tonight and post it. I
>> still have a second K3 and if needs be, I'll hook it up to compare.
>>
>> Max NG7M
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 10:22 PM, Nr4c <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I commented on this over a year ago and was tole that it was not
>>> possible. BUT IT STILL DOES IT!
>>>
>>> Thanks for your input.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> ...nr4c. bill
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mar 5, 2017, at 8:43 PM, M. George <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I just noticed that I have low audio output on my K3s rear speaker out
>>> when
>>>> CONFIG->SPKR+PH is set to no. I always chalked this up to being able to
>>>> hear audio from my headphones sitting on the left side of the desk here,
>>>> but I'm getting a low audio out of primarily the left speaker still when
>>>> spkr+ph is off. I'm going out of the speaker output on the K3s KIO3B
>>> into
>>>> some high end speakers, but I can duplicate the issue with a pair of
>>>> headphones too. So it's not the amplified speakers picking something
>>> stray
>>>> up.
>>>>
>>>> The CONFIG AF GAIN is LO and when I switch between LO and HI, the output
>>>> gets louder with the SPKR+PH off. The output is primarily on the left
>>>> channel too? Scratching my head. A bad relay on the KIO3B? When I
>>> switch
>>>> the SPKR+PH to ON, all is well for the left/right output on the output
>>> and
>>>> of course the volume / AF level goes way up like it should.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, I have SPKRS set to 2 as expected. Hmmm... am I missing
>>>> something obvious here? RTFM? :)
>>>>
>>>> Max NG7M
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> M. George
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>> --
>> M. George
>>
>>
>

KK1W

Re: K3s Hearing low level rear speaker audio with SPKR+PH no and low AF set

<quote author="Ken Wagner K3IU">
You might try tapping "1" when in CONFIG>SPKR+PH to display
"PH.R SW-". That fixed mine so that when SPKR+PH was YES,
plugging the phones in the REAR phone jack caused the
external speakers to be muted. If the PH.R+ was selected,
the speakers did NOT mute when the phones were plugged into
the Rear Panel, but did mute when thephones were plugged
into the Front Panel.

73,
Ken K3IU
K3s #10691
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for the tip Ken. Unfortunately that was already set to PH.R SW-. Changing it to + definitely didn't mute the speakers!

The issue we're seeing is the speakers are not completely muted. You can still hear audio coming out of the speakers, nowhere near as loud, but it's still there. Unlike the built in speaker which is completely muted under the same circumstances.

You did prompt me to try a regular speaker in the SPKRS jack (non-amplified). Interestingly there is NO audio heard when SPKR+PH = YES. This leads me to believe there is 'some' audio at the jack, enough to be amplified. Why, that I can't answer, maybe something to do with input impedance of the amplified speakers?

Anyway, just another data point in something that's not a big issue but makes for good discussion.

Jim/KK1W

Ken Wagner K3IU

Re: K3s Hearing low level rear speaker audio with SPKR+PH no and low AF set

In reply to this post by Ken Wagner K3IU

Thanks, Jim:

I should have mentioned that I am using
non-amplified speakers.

73, Ken K3IU
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On 3/7/2017 4:09 PM, KK1W wrote:

> You might try tapping "1" when in CONFIG>SPKR+PH to display
> "PH.R SW-". That fixed mine so that when SPKR+PH was YES,
> plugging the phones in the REAR phone jack caused the
> external speakers to be muted. If the PH.R+ was selected,
> the speakers did NOT mute when the phones were plugged into
> the Rear Panel, but did mute when thephones were plugged
> into the Front Panel.
>
> 73,
> Ken K3IU
> K3s #10691
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Thanks for the tip Ken. Unfortunately that was already set to PH.R SW-.
> Changing it to + definitely didn't mute the speakers!
>
> The issue we're seeing is the speakers are not completely muted. You can
> still hear audio coming out of the speakers, nowhere near as loud, but it's
> still there. Unlike the built in speaker which is completely muted under the
> same circumstances.
>
> You did prompt me to try a regular speaker in the SPKRS jack
> (non-amplified). Interestingly there is NO audio heard when SPKR+PH = YES.
> This leads me to believe there is 'some' audio at the jack, enough to be
> amplified. Why, that I can't answer, maybe something to do with input
> impedance of the amplified speakers?
>
> Anyway, just another data point in something that's not a big issue but
> makes for good discussion.
>
> Jim/KK1W
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3s-Hearing-low-level-rear-speaker-audio-with-SPKR-PH-no-and-low-AF-set-tp7627639p7627716.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

John Meade W2XS

Re: K3s Hearing low level rear speaker audio with SPKR+PH no and low AF set

In reply to this post by KK1W

Maybe it's an impedance issue. Regular speakers are "low" impedance (8-ish ohms) and the input impedance of powered speakers might be much, much higher.

W2XS