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K3s Output on 6M

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Gary Smith-2

K3s Output on 6M

What is the expected output on 6 meters?

The K3 shows 110W
The P3 watt meter says 73.1W
The LP-100A says 60.1W

When I use the internal tuner it never
breaks into the higher power range, it
only outputs at 7 watts tops.

On all the lower bands it puts out 100
reliably.

Thanks & 73,

Gary
KA1J
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Gary Smith-2

Re: K3s Output on 6M

Thanks Fred,

Guess I have some issues with my K3s then.
I think it's past warranty at this point.
I'll break out the K3 and try to get it
working in place of the K3s, send the K3s
back for repair and figure how to get WSJT
going with the K3 while 6 is still open.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> My K3S shows 100 watts, my Bird 43 with a 100 watt element shows 105
> watts, my Daiwa CN-801HP shows 105 watts. All measurements are made
> into a known 50 ohm dummy load.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 7/10/2018 7:03 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
> > What is the expected output on 6 meters?
> >
> > The K3 shows 110W
> > The P3 watt meter says 73.1W
> > The LP-100A says 60.1W
> >
> > When I use the internal tuner it never
> > breaks into the higher power range, it
> > only outputs at 7 watts tops.
> >
> > On all the lower bands it puts out 100
> > reliably.
> >
> > Thanks & 73,
> >
> > Gary
> > KA1J
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
>
>
>

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3s Output on 6M

Have you run a Transmitter Gain Calibration from the K3 Utility
Application? If you do, be sure to use a good dummy load connected
direct to the radio with a known good short coax jumper.

The fact you have 3 different power indicating devices which all
indicate different power values, I'd say you have a problem with your
power measuring system, for starters.   Always when measuring power it
is wise to use a known good 50 ohm dummy load. And just because the
label says 50 ohms is no sign it is really 50 ohms. Measure it with an
ohm meter.   Power meters are voltage sensing circuits and the R value
affects the voltage. Thus, as examples, 100 watts into 45 ohms is 67.08
volts, 100 watts into 50 ohms is 70.71 volts, and 100 watts into 55 ohms
is 74.16 volts.    Even with a 1:1 SWR most antennas have some reactance
and power indications will vary, depending on the complex Z. It is not
reliable to measure power with a reactive load such as an antenna.

Good luck.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 7/10/2018 9:18 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

> Thanks Fred,
>
> Guess I have some issues with my K3s then.
> I think it's past warranty at this point.
> I'll break out the K3 and try to get it
> working in place of the K3s, send the K3s
> back for repair and figure how to get WSJT
> going with the K3 while 6 is still open.
>
> 73,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
>
>> My K3S shows 100 watts, my Bird 43 with a 100 watt element shows 105
>> watts, my Daiwa CN-801HP shows 105 watts. All measurements are made
>> into a known 50 ohm dummy load.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>> On 7/10/2018 7:03 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
>>> What is the expected output on 6 meters?
>>>
>>> The K3 shows 110W
>>> The P3 watt meter says 73.1W
>>> The LP-100A says 60.1W
>>>
>>> When I use the internal tuner it never
>>> breaks into the higher power range, it
>>> only outputs at 7 watts tops.
>>>
>>> On all the lower bands it puts out 100
>>> reliably.
>>>
>>> Thanks & 73,
>>>
>>> Gary
>>> KA1J
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Nr4c

Re: K3s Output on 6M

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

Did you check the specs? I don’t think it is supposed to put out full 110 Watts on 10 or 6 meters.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Jul 10, 2018, at 8:03 PM, Gary Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> What is the expected output on 6 meters?
>
> The K3 shows 110W
> The P3 watt meter says 73.1W
> The LP-100A says 60.1W
>
> When I use the internal tuner it never
> breaks into the higher power range, it
> only outputs at 7 watts tops.
>
> On all the lower bands it puts out 100
> reliably.
>
> Thanks & 73,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim - N4ST

Re: K3s Output on 6M

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Hmmmmm......
My K3S set to 100W says it is putting out 80W on 6M.
An external power meter also reads ~80W.
I did a gain calibration and there was no change.
But, now you got me thinking.
My 50-Ohm load is +30 years old and I doubt is rated for 50MHz.

_______________
73,
Jim - N4ST

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2018 22:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3s Output on 6M

Have you run a Transmitter Gain Calibration from the K3 Utility Application? If you do, be sure to use a good dummy load connected direct to the radio with a known good short coax jumper.

The fact you have 3 different power indicating devices which all indicate different power values, I'd say you have a problem with your power measuring system, for starters. Always when measuring power it is wise to use a known good 50 ohm dummy load. And just because the label says 50 ohms is no sign it is really 50 ohms. Measure it with an ohm meter. Power meters are voltage sensing circuits and the R value affects the voltage. Thus, as examples, 100 watts into 45 ohms is 67.08 volts, 100 watts into 50 ohms is 70.71 volts, and 100 watts into 55 ohms is 74.16 volts. Even with a 1:1 SWR most antennas have some reactance and power indications will vary, depending on the complex Z. It is not reliable to measure power with a reactive load such as an antenna.

Good luck.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 7/10/2018 9:18 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

> Thanks Fred,
>
> Guess I have some issues with my K3s then.
> I think it's past warranty at this point.
> I'll break out the K3 and try to get it working in place of the K3s,
> send the K3s back for repair and figure how to get WSJT going with the
> K3 while 6 is still open.
>
> 73,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
>
>> My K3S shows 100 watts, my Bird 43 with a 100 watt element shows 105
>> watts, my Daiwa CN-801HP shows 105 watts. All measurements are made
>> into a known 50 ohm dummy load.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>> On 7/10/2018 7:03 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
>>> What is the expected output on 6 meters?
>>>
>>> The K3 shows 110W
>>> The P3 watt meter says 73.1W
>>> The LP-100A says 60.1W
>>>
>>> When I use the internal tuner it never breaks into the higher power
>>> range, it only outputs at 7 watts tops.
>>>
>>> On all the lower bands it puts out 100 reliably.
>>>
>>> Thanks & 73,
>>>
>>> Gary
>>> KA1J
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3s Output on 6M

In reply to this post by Nr4c

From page 9 of the manual: "K3S/100 typ. Suggested max from 51 - 51
MHz, 85 W, 52 - 54 MHz 70 W. " There are other specs related to
K3S/10 and transverter outputs.

Looks like 100 watts is a good number from 50 - 51 MHz. I see that on
my radio and I've not checked power above 51 MHz. The internal tuner
operates at around 5 to 7 watts output while resolving a match. Using
the internal tuner seems to tell me the external devices are not
operating with a 50 ohm nonreactive load attached. In that case, being
voltage sensing devices, the load will affect the power indications.

The point which would concern me most is having 3 different power
measuring devices which give significantly different values.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 7/10/2018 10:26 PM, Nr4c wrote:

> Did you check the specs? I don’t think it is supposed to put out full 110 Watts on 10 or 6 meters.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
>
>
>> On Jul 10, 2018, at 8:03 PM, Gary Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> What is the expected output on 6 meters?
>>
>> The K3 shows 110W
>> The P3 watt meter says 73.1W
>> The LP-100A says 60.1W
>>
>> When I use the internal tuner it never
>> breaks into the higher power range, it
>> only outputs at 7 watts tops.
>>
>> On all the lower bands it puts out 100
>> reliably.
>>
>> Thanks & 73,
>>
>> Gary
>> KA1J
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]