Elecraft › [K3]

K3s in the Field & Beta 3.10

Classic

List

Threaded

8 messages Options

Gary Bartlett VE1RGB

K3s in the Field & Beta 3.10

For those of you who plan on taking the K3 to Field Day or to similar
portable station events, I highly recommend that you take advantage of one
of Wayne's latest options in Beta 3.10 - VOX defaults to OFF upon K3 rig
turn-on. That will eliminate the problem we encountered at the Halifax ARC
at FD 2008 where, while one team was putting the CW station HF antenna
together, another team was working on the radio/computer logging end of the
RF transmission path. Someone who was unfamiliar with the K3 innocently
booted up a computer attached to #095 which had just been turned ON with VOX
still on from previous use. The guys at the antenna end were not impressed
when the K3 - with no-one touching it or the paddles - started transmitting
pulses at full power. No-one was hurt and no equipment was damaged and we
did not cook our MFJ antenna analyzer, but the potential was there for sure.

Anyone who has gone through a FD exercise will understand that the normal
operating discipline that we all maintain in our own fixed stations, where
of course none of us would ever allow this to happen (!), sometimes breaks
down.

Thanks, Elecraft, for fixing this safety issue.

73,

Gary, VE1RGB

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Ed K1EP

Re: K3s in the Field & Beta 3.10

Although a good addition for safety and I certainly appreciate the
addition, it still doesn't prevent the "computer reboot and key the
radio" problem. This could happen quite often at a FD if the
computers are not running on UPSs. Therefore, as you say, there is
no substitute for common sense and operating discipline. Common
sense being: Do not leave your K3 or any other radio unattended with
VOX/QSK enabled and connected to a computer keying circuit.

At 4/16/2009 10:36 AM, Gary, VE1RGB wrote:

>For those of you who plan on taking the K3 to Field Day or to similar
>portable station events, I highly recommend that you take advantage of one
>of Wayne's latest options in Beta 3.10 - VOX defaults to OFF upon K3 rig
>turn-on. That will eliminate the problem we encountered at the Halifax ARC
>at FD 2008 where, while one team was putting the CW station HF antenna
>together, another team was working on the radio/computer logging end of the
>RF transmission path. Someone who was unfamiliar with the K3 innocently
>booted up a computer attached to #095 which had just been turned ON with VOX
>still on from previous use. The guys at the antenna end were not impressed
>when the K3 - with no-one touching it or the paddles - started transmitting
>pulses at full power. No-one was hurt and no equipment was damaged and we
>did not cook our MFJ antenna analyzer, but the potential was there for sure.
>
>Anyone who has gone through a FD exercise will understand that the normal
>operating discipline that we all maintain in our own fixed stations, where
>of course none of us would ever allow this to happen (!), sometimes breaks
>down.
>
> Thanks, Elecraft, for fixing this safety issue.
> 73,
>
> Gary, VE1RGB

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Steve Ellington

Re: K3s in the Field & Beta 3.10

Yesterday I changed PTT-KEY to OFF- DTR so Logger32 would be able to key via
RS232. Worked great however this morning, with the K3 turned on, I booted
the PC. During boot, the K3 emitted about 3 sidetone beeps. Later when I
tried to key the K3 via direct paddles I got zero power out. Turning the PWR
knob revealed that Power had been reduced to the zero setting. I turned up
the PWR via the knob and all was well. I guess this proves the importance of
first booting the PC then turning on the K3.

Steve Ellington
[hidden email]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed K1EP" <[hidden email]>
To: "Gary, VE1RGB" <[hidden email]>; "'Elecraft Reflector'"
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3s in the Field & Beta 3.10

> Although a good addition for safety and I certainly appreciate the
> addition, it still doesn't prevent the "computer reboot and key the
> radio" problem. This could happen quite often at a FD if the
> computers are not running on UPSs. Therefore, as you say, there is
> no substitute for common sense and operating discipline. Common
> sense being: Do not leave your K3 or any other radio unattended with
> VOX/QSK enabled and connected to a computer keying circuit.
>
> At 4/16/2009 10:36 AM, Gary, VE1RGB wrote:
>>For those of you who plan on taking the K3 to Field Day or to similar
>>portable station events, I highly recommend that you take advantage of one
>>of Wayne's latest options in Beta 3.10 - VOX defaults to OFF upon K3 rig
>>turn-on. That will eliminate the problem we encountered at the Halifax
>>ARC
>>at FD 2008 where, while one team was putting the CW station HF antenna
>>together, another team was working on the radio/computer logging end of
>>the
>>RF transmission path. Someone who was unfamiliar with the K3 innocently
>>booted up a computer attached to #095 which had just been turned ON with
>>VOX
>>still on from previous use. The guys at the antenna end were not
>>impressed
>>when the K3 - with no-one touching it or the paddles - started
>>transmitting
>>pulses at full power. No-one was hurt and no equipment was damaged and we
>>did not cook our MFJ antenna analyzer, but the potential was there for
>>sure.
>>
>>Anyone who has gone through a FD exercise will understand that the normal
>>operating discipline that we all maintain in our own fixed stations, where
>>of course none of us would ever allow this to happen (!), sometimes breaks
>>down.
>>
>> Thanks, Elecraft, for fixing this safety issue.
>> 73,
>>
>> Gary, VE1RGB
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3s in the Field & Beta 3.10

Steve,

There was a 'safety valve' added to the K3 a while back that prevented
RF if the K3 was turned on while PTT or a closed Key was found.
Apparently, the timing of both the K3 power on and your PC boot were
close enough to activate that 'safety valve', but in an unusual manner.

Note 'safety valve' is a label of my invention - you will not find that
term in the manual.

73,
Don W3FPR

Steve Ellington wrote:
> Yesterday I changed PTT-KEY to OFF- DTR so Logger32 would be able to key via
> RS232. Worked great however this morning, with the K3 turned on, I booted
> the PC. During boot, the K3 emitted about 3 sidetone beeps. Later when I
> tried to key the K3 via direct paddles I got zero power out. Turning the PWR
> knob revealed that Power had been reduced to the zero setting. I turned up
> the PWR via the knob and all was well. I guess this proves the importance of
> first booting the PC then turning on the K3.
>
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Gary Bartlett VE1RGB

Re: K3s in the Field & Beta 3.10

In reply to this post by Ed K1EP

Good point, Ed. Usually, though, the station is all built up by that time
and some semblance of discipline has returned. No one is holding on to the
antenna or the feed line is not disconnected or no RF test equipment is
attached during those kinds of re-boots. Wayne's latest improvement should
cut down the odds of any unpleasant surprises by an order of magnitude.

Actually, if the K3's DC power supply is connected to the same source of A.C
as everything else in the tent (like the computers) and one loses that
source of A.C., the K3 shuts down when it loses its DC. Upon restoration of
AC to the station and hence DC to the radio, one must turn the K3 back on
again which disables VOX as per Wayne's latest change. I think this fix
should cover 99% of contingencies.

However, I would be the first to agree that leaving a "hot" transmitter
unattended is bad operating practice, especially in a situation where the
public and/or untrained operators are running around. Like Field Day.

73,
Gary, VE1RGB

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed K1EP [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: April 16, 2009 11:53 AM
To: Gary, VE1RGB; 'Elecraft Reflector'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3s in the Field & Beta 3.10

Although a good addition for safety and I certainly appreciate the
addition, it still doesn't prevent the "computer reboot and key the
radio" problem. This could happen quite often at a FD if the
computers are not running on UPSs. Therefore, as you say, there is
no substitute for common sense and operating discipline. Common
sense being: Do not leave your K3 or any other radio unattended with
VOX/QSK enabled and connected to a computer keying circuit.

At 4/16/2009 10:36 AM, Gary, VE1RGB wrote:
>For those of you who plan on taking the K3 to Field Day or to similar
>portable station events, I highly recommend that you take advantage of one
>of Wayne's latest options in Beta 3.10 - VOX defaults to OFF upon K3 rig
>turn-on. That will eliminate the problem we encountered at the Halifax ARC
>at FD 2008 where, while one team was putting the CW station HF antenna
>together, another team was working on the radio/computer logging end of the
>RF transmission path. Someone who was unfamiliar with the K3 innocently
>booted up a computer attached to #095 which had just been turned ON with
VOX
>still on from previous use. The guys at the antenna end were not impressed
>when the K3 - with no-one touching it or the paddles - started transmitting
>pulses at full power. No-one was hurt and no equipment was damaged and we
>did not cook our MFJ antenna analyzer, but the potential was there for
sure.

>
>Anyone who has gone through a FD exercise will understand that the normal
>operating discipline that we all maintain in our own fixed stations, where
>of course none of us would ever allow this to happen (!), sometimes breaks
>down.
>
> Thanks, Elecraft, for fixing this safety issue.
> 73,
>
> Gary, VE1RGB

n7ws

Re: K3s in the Field & Beta 3.10

In reply to this post by Ed K1EP

Allow me to offer another caution, even though it is painful to admit.

When I first acquired my K3 (thus being a "beginner") I was comparing it to my Kenwood TS-870 by sharing the antenna using the '870's "Aux Receiver" port.

In doing a band change I unknowingly held the switch too long and put the K3 in VOX mode. Try not to get ahead of me... the next noise in the shack tripped the VOX and I transmitted into the Kenwood front end. Kenwood wisely included a protective bulb in the circuit, although it is both expensive and located where it is going to be a real pain to replace.

Ironically, after 10+ years of flawless operation my first failure occurs when I buy what is supposed to be a replacement radio.

Too many functions, not enough buttons.

Wes Stewart N7WS

--- On Thu, 4/16/09, Ed K1EP <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Although a good addition for safety and I certainly
> appreciate the
> addition, it still doesn't prevent the "computer
> reboot and key the
> radio" problem. This could happen quite often at a FD
> if the
> computers are not running on UPSs. Therefore, as you say,
> there is
> no substitute for common sense and operating discipline.
> Common
> sense being: Do not leave your K3 or any other radio
> unattended with
> VOX/QSK enabled and connected to a computer keying circuit.
>

Ed K1EP

Re: K3s in the Field & Beta 3.10

In reply to this post by Gary Bartlett VE1RGB

At 4/16/2009 12:24 PM, Gary, VE1RGB wrote:

>Good point, Ed. Usually, though, the station is all built up by that time
>and some semblance of discipline has returned. No one is holding on to the
>antenna or the feed line is not disconnected or no RF test equipment is
>attached during those kinds of re-boots. Wayne's latest improvement should
>cut down the odds of any unpleasant surprises by an order of magnitude.
>
>Actually, if the K3's DC power supply is connected to the same source of A.C
>as everything else in the tent (like the computers) and one loses that
>source of A.C., the K3 shuts down when it loses its DC. Upon restoration of
>AC to the station and hence DC to the radio, one must turn the K3 back on
>again which disables VOX as per Wayne's latest change. I think this fix
>should cover 99% of contingencies.

Actually, what I do is put the K3 in TEST mode if I am going to leave
the radio unattended. If for some reason, power gets cycled, the
radio will now power up in NORMAL mode. Instead of or in addition to
the current "fix" to disable VOX on power up, I would like to see
either the radio maintain the TEST state after power up (i.e. if it
was in TEST mode when power was removed, then it would power up in
TEST mode) or always (menu selectable) power up in TEST mode. I
think that is "safer" than the VOX "fix". Just my opinion.

Now here is a really off the wall request/suggestion. I am NOT
asking it be done. Repeat, I am not asking or requesting it be
implemented. But I thought it would be novel option. Have the
frequency readout be a mirror image. Why? I have operated with my
K3 mobile (parked!) and have had the K3 in the rear seat area for
convenience. In most cases I wouldn't have to fiddle with many
controls other than the VFO. So to read the frequency, I would have
to turn around to see the radio. But if there was a mirror option, I
could read it in my rear view mirror. Okay, I really don't want to
suggest having this option, but since there are always multitudes of
option suggestions for specialized situations, I thought I would add
my own here.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Bob Cunnings NW8L

Re: K3s in the Field & Beta 3.10

I use TEST mode in exactly the way you do, and have long had the same
issue with it not persisting when power is cycled. I've mentioned it
more than once on this reflector but a rationale hasn't been offered.
To my mind a "safe" condition, once established, should remain that
way until the operator changes it. Transmit disable on the Orion
worked this way.

Bob NW8L

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Ed K1EP <[hidden email]> wrote:
<snip>

>
> Actually, what I do is put the K3 in TEST mode if I am going to leave
> the radio unattended. If for some reason, power gets cycled, the
> radio will now power up in NORMAL mode. Instead of or in addition to
> the current "fix" to disable VOX on power up, I would like to see
> either the radio maintain the TEST state after power up (i.e. if it
> was in TEST mode when power was removed, then it would power up in
> TEST mode) or always (menu selectable) power up in TEST mode. I
> think that is "safer" than the VOX "fix". Just my opinion.
>

</snip>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html