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Ian, NV4C

K4 Books

All,

I have a question that is probably best answered by Eric, Wayne, or one
of the K4 testers. Since Fred Cady, KE7X (sk), is no longer with us to
write a K4 book, are the UI and firmware close enough to that of the
K3/K3S that we can use those books to learn it? Or, is Elecraft working
with another author (hopefully of Fred's skill and stature, but that
would be very hard to find) to write a supplemental K4 book? Or, are we
all just out of look in that department?

Thanks and 73,

Ian, NV4C

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vk2rq

Re: K4 Books

I would suggest that the architecture of the K4 is a significant departure
from the K3 series, and I would think that the books treating the K3 would
be of limited usefulness in understanding how to get the most out of the K4.

73, Matt VK2RQ

On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 08:42, Ian Kahn, NV4C <[hidden email]> wrote:

> All,
>
> I have a question that is probably best answered by Eric, Wayne, or one
> of the K4 testers. Since Fred Cady, KE7X (sk), is no longer with us to
> write a K4 book, are the UI and firmware close enough to that of the
> K3/K3S that we can use those books to learn it? Or, is Elecraft working
> with another author (hopefully of Fred's skill and stature, but that
> would be very hard to find) to write a supplemental K4 book? Or, are we
> all just out of look in that department?
>
> Thanks and 73,
>
> Ian, NV4C
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Jim Brown-10

Re: K4 Books

On 6/29/2020 3:57 PM, Matt Maguire wrote:
> I would suggest that the architecture of the K4 is a significant departure
> from the K3 series, and I would think that the books treating the K3 would
> be of limited usefulness in understanding how to get the most out of the K4.

Maybe study the manual? Worked fine for me with most ham gear I've
owned, including the K3 and companion products.

73, Jim K9YC
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Don Wilhelm

Re: K4 Books

Tongue planted firmly in cheek --
What? Study the manual? We are hams and can just push buttons and turn
knobs and see what happens!

Seriously, I think some hams really do it that way.

How much more pleasure would they get out of their gear if they took the
time to study the manual. That is NOT a casual perusal paging through
the manual.
That is sitting down in front of the radio with the manual open and
identifying things as well as trying things out with a dummy load when
it involves transmitting.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/29/2020 7:06 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>
> Maybe study the manual? Worked fine for me with most ham gear I've
> owned, including the K3 and companion products.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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k6dgw

Re: K4 Books

I found that the value in Fred's book was due to approach. The K3
manual is good ... very good ... and like most all user manuals, takes a
"control approach" -- "The SHIFT and WIDTH controls adjust the center
frequency and the width of the DSP filtering." Fred's book explains
what the DSP filtering is, the effects the controls have on it, and how
it affects operation of the radio.

I'm not suggesting the "control approach" is wrong or bad, user manuals
need to explain what each control does. It's just a different approach
to the subject. I find both very useful.

From what little I know about the K4, I can't imagine that either a K3
manual or Fred's K3 book would be of much value for a new K4 owner.

73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 6/29/2020 4:20 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Tongue planted firmly in cheek --
> What? Study the manual? We are hams and can just push buttons and
> turn knobs and see what happens!
>
> Seriously, I think some hams really do it that way.
>
> How much more pleasure would they get out of their gear if they took
> the time to study the manual. That is NOT a casual perusal paging
> through the manual.
> That is sitting down in front of the radio with the manual open and
> identifying things as well as trying things out with a dummy load when
> it involves transmitting.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 6/29/2020 7:06 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>
>> Maybe study the manual? Worked fine for me with most ham gear I've
>> owned, including the K3 and companion products.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
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Doug Daniels

Re: K4 Books

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

As I am reading the manual for my new KX2, and watching a YouTube where
the guy was testing the rig with it set to 0 power. I just ordered the
dummy load from Elecraft. Thanks for the suggestion.

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 7:21 PM Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tongue planted firmly in cheek --
> What? Study the manual? We are hams and can just push buttons and turn
> knobs and see what happens!
>
> Seriously, I think some hams really do it that way.
>
> How much more pleasure would they get out of their gear if they took the
> time to study the manual. That is NOT a casual perusal paging through
> the manual.
> That is sitting down in front of the radio with the manual open and
> identifying things as well as trying things out with a dummy load when
> it involves transmitting.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 6/29/2020 7:06 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> >
> > Maybe study the manual? Worked fine for me with most ham gear I've
> > owned, including the K3 and companion products.
> >
> > 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

--

--... ...--
Doug
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Ian, NV4C

Re: K4 Books

In reply to this post by vk2rq

Matt,

I would think so, too. However, a lot of the comments seen on this
reflector talk about how similar they are, and that if a user is familiar
with a K3/K3S, s/he will have no problem with the K4. So, at the risk of
looking foolish, I pose the question. No harm in asking. However, I would
like a definitive answer from either Eric/Wayne, or someone from the test
team.

73 de,

Ian, NV4C

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 6:58 PM Matt Maguire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would suggest that the architecture of the K4 is a significant departure
> from the K3 series, and I would think that the books treating the K3 would
> be of limited usefulness in understanding how to get the most out of the K4.
>
> 73, Matt VK2RQ
>
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 08:42, Ian Kahn, NV4C <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> I have a question that is probably best answered by Eric, Wayne, or one
>> of the K4 testers. Since Fred Cady, KE7X (sk), is no longer with us to
>> write a K4 book, are the UI and firmware close enough to that of the
>> K3/K3S that we can use those books to learn it? Or, is Elecraft working
>> with another author (hopefully of Fred's skill and stature, but that
>> would be very hard to find) to write a supplemental K4 book? Or, are we
>> all just out of look in that department?
>>
>> Thanks and 73,
>>
>> Ian, NV4C
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>

--
Ian Kahn, NV4C
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
10-10 #74624 North Georgia Chapter #2038
PODXS 070 #1962
K3 #281, P3 #688 KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468
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Ian, NV4C

Re: K4 Books

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

For my K3, I DID study the manual. I also bought and read Dr. Cady's book.
Each was valuable in its own way. No reason not to use both.

73 de,

Ian, NV4C

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 7:07 PM Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 6/29/2020 3:57 PM, Matt Maguire wrote:
> > I would suggest that the architecture of the K4 is a significant
> departure
> > from the K3 series, and I would think that the books treating the K3
> would
> > be of limited usefulness in understanding how to get the most out of the
> K4.
>
> Maybe study the manual? Worked fine for me with most ham gear I've
> owned, including the K3 and companion products.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Rick Tavan-2

Re: K4 Books

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

If you're already comfortable with the K3, you'll be comfortable with the
K4 in a matter of hours. You "won't need no steenkeeng book." The screen is
totally different in layout and appearance but supports many of the
functions you've come to understand and (hopefully) love in K3/P3. Most of
the nomenclature is the same as is the buttonology. If you're new to the
Elecraft family of radios, you might prefer a Cady-style book to the
Elecraft manual, although many users (like me) find the Elecraft manuals
sufficient, much better than some transceiver user guides out there. I
don't recommend an Elecraft newbie spend a lot of time with K3
documentation, from either source, as a head start on the K4. It couldn't
hurt and it might assuage the delivery anxiety a bit but IMHO it would be
better just to download the K4 manual when it becomes available.

Rick N6XI
K4 #00012

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:21 PM Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

--
--

Rick Tavan
Truckee and Saratoga, CA
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John Simmons

Re: K4 Books

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

Hence: "RTFM". I have a mug.

-de John NI0K

Don Wilhelm wrote on 6/29/2020 6:20 PM:

Paul Van Dyke

Re: K4 Books

Hey Rick

"Rick N6XI"
"K4 #00012"

Thhpptpt.

Paul - KB9AVO
on the early list for the K4 also
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Don Wilhelm

Re: K4 Books

In reply to this post by k6dgw

Skip,

Fred addressed 3 different learning methods in his books. First was
those who learn by reading (I am one of those), 2nd is those who learn
from examples (expanded reading) and thirdly those who learn from
hands-on exercises. Fred addressed all 3 in his books.
He did comment that there was nothing in his books that was not in the
Elecraft manual, but his approach to presenting the material was
different. That is why his books exceed 200 pages while the Elecraft
manuals are usually in the vicinity of 100 pages.

On 6/29/2020 7:37 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> I found that the value in Fred's book was due to approach. The K3
> manual is good ... very good ... and like most all user manuals, takes a
> "control approach" -- "The SHIFT and WIDTH controls adjust the center
> frequency and the width of the DSP filtering." Fred's book explains
> what the DSP filtering is, the effects the controls have on it, and how
> it affects operation of the radio.
>
> I'm not suggesting the "control approach" is wrong or bad, user manuals
> need to explain what each control does. It's just a different approach
> to the subject. I find both very useful.
>
> From what little I know about the K4, I can't imagine that either a K3
> manual or Fred's K3 book would be of much value for a new K4 owner.
>
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 6/29/2020 4:20 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Tongue planted firmly in cheek --
>> What? Study the manual? We are hams and can just push buttons and
>> turn knobs and see what happens!
>>
>> Seriously, I think some hams really do it that way.
>>
>> How much more pleasure would they get out of their gear if they took
>> the time to study the manual. That is NOT a casual perusal paging
>> through the manual.
>> That is sitting down in front of the radio with the manual open and
>> identifying things as well as trying things out with a dummy load when
>> it involves transmitting.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 6/29/2020 7:06 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> Maybe study the manual? Worked fine for me with most ham gear I've
>>> owned, including the K3 and companion products.
>>>

Jim Brown-10

Re: K4 Books

On 6/29/2020 7:09 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Fred addressed 3 different learning methods in his books. First was
> those who learn by reading (I am one of those), 2nd is those who learn
> from examples (expanded reading) and thirdly those who learn from
> hands-on exercises. Fred addressed all 3 in his books.
> He did comment that there was nothing in his books that was not in the
> Elecraft manual, but his approach to presenting the material was
> different. That is why his books exceed 200 pages while the Elecraft
> manuals are usually in the vicinity of 100 pages.

After college, I taught at DeVry in Chicago for five years. Good
teachers, like good writers, learn to "tell the story" in a manner that
the targeted audience can understand. I found that I could usually tell
the story in a manner that 80-90% of the class could follow, but there
were always a few guys whose mind worked differently enough that they
didn't. When that happened, I had to first probe to figure out what they
didn't "get," or what background knowledge was missing, and build the
story in a different form.

I still give talks regularly at ham events, and spend a LOT of time
preparing slides, then spend a lot of time rehearsing so that I fit into
the allotted time. And I ask for a LOT of time for one very important
reason. I can explain most things to folks well-educated in the topic at
hand (whether formally or informally) in 5-10 minutes, but if I want
most of the room to get it, I've got to take my time, build that story
for the guys with the least background. And for most topics I present,
that's an hour or so.

I also like to use graphs, simple block diagrams, and photos a lot. I
think that helps give the listener/reader more to help them understand.

73, Jim K9YC
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Bill K9YEQ

Re: K4 Books

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

I solved my issues with understanding Elecraft radios, I prefer all thee methods of learning to fully know the ins and outs. What assists me most after reading all pertinent parts to my use, is to search a downloaded PDF manual to find what I have forgotten and need to refresh my memory. To me I don't find more books helpful, just the manual and use and quick searches. Oh, and I save the current settings frequently in case I really screw up. Before I restore, I use the issue as a learning tool.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 9:10 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4 Books

Skip,

Fred addressed 3 different learning methods in his books. First was those who learn by reading (I am one of those), 2nd is those who learn from examples (expanded reading) and thirdly those who learn from hands-on exercises. Fred addressed all 3 in his books.
He did comment that there was nothing in his books that was not in the Elecraft manual, but his approach to presenting the material was different. That is why his books exceed 200 pages while the Elecraft manuals are usually in the vicinity of 100 pages.

On 6/29/2020 7:37 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> I found that the value in Fred's book was due to approach. The K3
> manual is good ... very good ... and like most all user manuals, takes
> a "control approach" -- "The SHIFT and WIDTH controls adjust the
> center frequency and the width of the DSP filtering." Fred's book
> explains what the DSP filtering is, the effects the controls have on
> it, and how it affects operation of the radio.
>
> I'm not suggesting the "control approach" is wrong or bad, user
> manuals need to explain what each control does. It's just a different
> approach to the subject. I find both very useful.
>
> From what little I know about the K4, I can't imagine that either a
> K3 manual or Fred's K3 book would be of much value for a new K4 owner.
>
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 6/29/2020 4:20 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Tongue planted firmly in cheek --
>> What? Study the manual? We are hams and can just push buttons and
>> turn knobs and see what happens!
>>
>> Seriously, I think some hams really do it that way.
>>
>> How much more pleasure would they get out of their gear if they took
>> the time to study the manual. That is NOT a casual perusal paging
>> through the manual.
>> That is sitting down in front of the radio with the manual open and
>> identifying things as well as trying things out with a dummy load
>> when it involves transmitting.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 6/29/2020 7:06 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> Maybe study the manual? Worked fine for me with most ham gear I've
>>> owned, including the K3 and companion products.
>>>

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Gary Smith-2

Re: K4 Books

I second the use of PDF for finding
answers. It really helps these old eyes to
be able to expand the print quickly after
using the search feature to find the word
I'm searching for. A searchable PDF does
this wonderfully.

Another thing that helps me greatly is a
video say on youtube that has an outline
and an instructor doing certain things
with a clear camera view so it's like
having an instructor right in front of you
& the equipment so you can mirror image
what they are doing exactly, to
understand.

Being able to look on an outline and see
for example "Adjusting the noise blanker":
14.45 Meaning at 14 min, 45 seconds, that
presentation is found on the video.

73, stay well,

Gary
KA1J

> I solved my issues with understanding Elecraft radios, I prefer all
> thee methods of learning to fully know the ins and outs. What assists
> me most after reading all pertinent parts to my use, is to search a
> downloaded PDF manual to find what I have forgotten and need to
> refresh my memory. To me I don't find more books helpful, just the
> manual and use and quick searches. Oh, and I save the current
> settings frequently in case I really screw up. Before I restore, I
> use the issue as a learning tool.
>
> 73,
> Bill
> K9YEQ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm Sent:
> Monday, June 29, 2020 9:10 PM To: [hidden email] Subject:
> Re: [Elecraft] K4 Books
>
> Skip,
>
> Fred addressed 3 different learning methods in his books. First was
> those who learn by reading (I am one of those), 2nd is those who learn
> from examples (expanded reading) and thirdly those who learn from
> hands-on exercises. Fred addressed all 3 in his books. He did comment
> that there was nothing in his books that was not in the Elecraft
> manual, but his approach to presenting the material was different.
> That is why his books exceed 200 pages while the Elecraft manuals are
> usually in the vicinity of 100 pages.
>
> On 6/29/2020 7:37 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> > I found that the value in Fred's book was due to approach. The K3
> > manual is good ... very good ... and like most all user manuals,
> > takes a "control approach" -- "The SHIFT and WIDTH controls adjust
> > the center frequency and the width of the DSP filtering." Fred's
> > book explains what the DSP filtering is, the effects the controls
> > have on it, and how it affects operation of the radio.
> >
> > I'm not suggesting the "control approach" is wrong or bad, user
> > manuals need to explain what each control does. It's just a
> > different approach to the subject. I find both very useful.
> >
> > From what little I know about the K4, I can't imagine that either a
> >
> > K3 manual or Fred's K3 book would be of much value for a new K4
> > owner.
> >
> > 73,
> > Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> > Sparks NV DM09dn
> > Washoe County
> >
> > On 6/29/2020 4:20 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> >> Tongue planted firmly in cheek --
> >> What? Study the manual? We are hams and can just push buttons and
> >> turn knobs and see what happens!
> >>
> >> Seriously, I think some hams really do it that way.
> >>
> >> How much more pleasure would they get out of their gear if they
> >> took the time to study the manual. That is NOT a casual perusal
> >> paging through the manual. That is sitting down in front of the
> >> radio with the manual open and identifying things as well as trying
> >> things out with a dummy load when it involves transmitting.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Don W3FPR
> >>
> >> On 6/29/2020 7:06 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Maybe study the manual? Worked fine for me with most ham gear I've
> >>> owned, including the K3 and companion products.
> >>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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