Elecraft

K4 Manual

Classic

List

Threaded

29 messages Options

Rick Tavan-2

Re: K4 training

Video tutorials would be a good idea, Gary. I wouldn't encourage Elecraft
to delay K4 shipment until they are available, though. I suspect
owner-produced vids will surface quickly and will be helpful for some.

For what it's worth, as an experienced K3 user, I felt comfortable with my
field test K4 *immediately* and very comfortable after an hour of simply
poking around. The connections are plug-compatible. The UI metaphors are
consistent.The menu structure is simpler and includes more text. There are,
of course, some differences and new features, especially around the
gorgeous display. (P3 experience will help there.) Most of the features are
easily discoverable. Most Elecraft veterans won't need more than a brief
tip sheet/application note explaining new stuff. Owners who are new to
Elecraft may find videos helpful. A typically excellent Elecraft Owner's
Manual (not yet available) will round out the doc set.

It's a great radio and will be well worth the wait!

73,

/Rick N6XI

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 11:05 PM Gary Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would really like it if when the K4 is
> released, there were also released on the
> same day, training videos showing what to
> push, what to enter, a how-to set of
> videos covering different topics of
> interest.
>
> Either a bunch of short ones on a web
> page, sorted by topic & exactly to the
> point so they'd be easy to find and could
> be easily replayed till the idea is
> understood. That, or a good legend
> accompanying a long, more encompassing
> presentation with reference time marks to
> know where to search for a given
> demonstration.
>
> We all learn differently, I have 11 years
> of college under my belt, but in my old
> age I still say I learn best by observing
> a demonstration than otherwise.
>
> But that's just me.
>
> 73,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

--
--

Rick Tavan
Truckee and Saratoga, CA
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bill Frantz

Re: K4 training

I have a vague memory that the K4 was supposed to include a
built-in help system. I can see it as being just showing the
relevant section of the manual, but it might be different.

Is it currently available, or is it waiting for the manual. or
is something different?

73 Bill AE6JV

On 8/7/20 at 11:47 AM, [hidden email] (Rick Tavan) wrote:

>The menu structure is simpler and includes more text.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | "The only thing we have to | Periwinkle
(408)348-7900 | fear is fear itself." - FDR | 150
Rivermead Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com | Inaugural address, 3/4/1933 |
Peterborough, NH 03458

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Rick Tavan-2

Re: K4 training

The "?" Help trigger is there but I think the text is pending completion of
the manual on which it will be based.

/Rick N6XI

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 10:57 AM Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have a vague memory that the K4 was supposed to include a
> built-in help system. I can see it as being just showing the
> relevant section of the manual, but it might be different.
>
> Is it currently available, or is it waiting for the manual. or
> is something different?
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> On 8/7/20 at 11:47 AM, [hidden email] (Rick Tavan) wrote:
>
> >The menu structure is simpler and includes more text.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz | "The only thing we have to | Periwinkle
> (408)348-7900 | fear is fear itself." - FDR | 150
> Rivermead Rd #235
> www.pwpconsult.com | Inaugural address, 3/4/1933 |
> Peterborough, NH 03458
>
>

wayne burdick

Re: K4 training

Administrator

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

Hi Bill,

Yes, the built-in Info System (accessed by tapping the "?" button) is a unique feature of the K4. We're refining it as we go along. It will be available for preview/comment at some point.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

> On Aug 7, 2020, at 10:57 AM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have a vague memory that the K4 was supposed to include a built-in help system. I can see it as being just showing the relevant section of the manual, but it might be different.
>
> Is it currently available, or is it waiting for the manual. or is something different?
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> On 8/7/20 at 11:47 AM, [hidden email] (Rick Tavan) wrote:
>
>> The menu structure is simpler and includes more text.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz | "The only thing we have to | Periwinkle
> (408)348-7900 | fear is fear itself." - FDR | 150 Rivermead Rd #235
> www.pwpconsult.com | Inaugural address, 3/4/1933 | Peterborough, NH 03458
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Buck

Re: K4 training

Wayne, you think of everything.

Buck, k4ia
Honor Roll
8BDXCC
EasyWayHamBooks.com

On 8/7/2020 2:10 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> Hi Bill,
>
> Yes, the built-in Info System (accessed by tapping the "?" button) is a unique feature of the K4. We're refining it as we go along. It will be available for preview/comment at some point.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>> On Aug 7, 2020, at 10:57 AM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I have a vague memory that the K4 was supposed to include a built-in help system. I can see it as being just showing the relevant section of the manual, but it might be different.
>>
>> Is it currently available, or is it waiting for the manual. or is something different?
>>
>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>>
>> On 8/7/20 at 11:47 AM, [hidden email] (Rick Tavan) wrote:
>>
>>> The menu structure is simpler and includes more text.
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Bill Frantz | "The only thing we have to | Periwinkle
>> (408)348-7900 | fear is fear itself." - FDR | 150 Rivermead Rd #235
>> www.pwpconsult.com | Inaugural address, 3/4/1933 | Peterborough, NH 03458
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Bill Frantz

Re: K4 training

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Thanks Wayne.

With the manual online, and support for jumping to the relevant
section, it will be better than what I have with the K3, where
the manual is on my computer and I have to text search for the
relevant section. The neat thing is that the online manual can
be automatically updated with new versions of the firmware.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 8/7/20 at 2:10 PM, [hidden email] (Wayne Burdick) wrote:

>Hi Bill,
>
>Yes, the built-in Info System (accessed by tapping the "?"
>button) is a unique feature of the K4. We're refining it as we
>go along. It will be available for preview/comment at some point.
>
>73,
>Wayne
>N6KR
>
>
>>On Aug 7, 2020, at 10:57 AM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>I have a vague memory that the K4 was supposed to include a built-in help system. I can see it as
>being just showing the relevant section of the manual, but it might be different.
>>
>>Is it currently available, or is it waiting for the manual. or is something different?
>>
>>73 Bill AE6JV
>>
>>On 8/7/20 at 11:47 AM, [hidden email] (Rick Tavan) wrote:
>>
>>> The menu structure is simpler and includes more text.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz |"Insofar as the propositions of mathematics
refer to
408-348-7900 | reality, they are not certain; and insofar
they are
www.pwpconsult.com | certain, they do not refer to reality.”
-- Einstein

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Rich NE1EE

Re: K4 training

On 2020-08-07 21:21:-0400, Bill Frantz wrote:
>With the manual online, and support for jumping to the relevant section, it will be better than what I have with the K3, where the manual is on my computer and I have to text search for the relevant section. The neat thing is that the online manual can be automatically updated with new versions of the firmware.

I agree with the idea that the online manual can be frequently updated, but so can the PDF of the manual. I like both. I have found with other large projects, that the online manual is not well-searchable, and is broken into sections, so if I don't know what I am looking for, I can't find it. I have many frustrating experiences with that. Also, with the PDF, I can make notes on the manual, as long as it is not write-restricted. Some vendors secure their PDFs so that we can't copy from the manuals or make notes, both of which are real handicaps for the me, with the way I like to operate.

The online version will not be writable, in the sense that I can't make notes in the relevant sections, but at least I should be able to copy from the web pages. I find that I usually wind up with my own set of notes, because few manuals are close to complete. Being able to copy from the manual makes that much easier.

My experiences are also that online manuals tend to be less well-developed than good quality paper manuals. I am still playing with a variety of methods for accumulating notes, including printing occasional pages of online manuals to PDF and adding them to my own PDF.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Rich NE1EE

Re: K4 training

In reply to this post by RICHARD Martin

On 2020-08-05 03:06:-0700, RICHARD Martin wrote:

>A how to video would be a very nice feature, but we must remember the cost
>of developing such a thing when our friends at Elecraft have to be in
>desperate need of cash.
>...
>Thru most of my professional life, I have been responsible for the
>conception, prototyping, and manufacture of large scientific instruments
>($100K to $5M). The cost of the manuals/documentation was typically equal
>to the development cost of the product.
>
>Dick KN6AA

I am interested in the KX2, so I am gathering info on the product line to see if that is what I want to buy. I skimmed the KX2 vid, and found that it was not very useful. It was large a sales pitch.

I have been involved with the dev of user manuals and operating procedures of complicated equipment, from stuff on the order of HP 15C calculators to 1100 MW generators.

The cost to produce manuals has dropped significantly since 1980, largely due to the drop in cost of typesetting. Ironically, I opine, the quality has declined. Companies no longer invest in producing good manuals and training material, as a result, I see most often that the mfg directs questions to user fora. The downside to this is obvious. New users, not knowing what to ask or how to phrase a question, flounder around wasting a tremendous number of person-hours. I offered to help develop some docs for a few popular products, and was told by the developers/companies to simply start using the products, learn them well, and then produce those docs.They would be much appreciated!!! I declined. I don't have the time to waste learning the products using "seek and find" techniques.

The cost of an HP-14C in 2020 USD was prolly on the order of $250. I'll bet the manual cost $10K to develop, independent of typesetting. But that cost was offset to some degree by the cost of the 15C and the number of them sold. Elecraft could easily pay attention to these fora, and regularly upgrade the manuals by posting new PDFs.

I recently asked Elecraft a technical question that is not addressed in the manuals or on the web, and after 2 passes got a very nice succinct, clear, and complete answer. (Note that it took TWO cycles of emails to get that answer.) I immediately replied with thanks, and a recommendation that they add those comments to the web...and possibly manuals.

I don't need a printed manual with my device. I think that they can look nice and be useful, though. I do appreciate a PDF that is not write protected, so that I can make my own notes and correct mistakes. I also appreciate a manual that is updated regularly. I don't like trolling lists and doing web searches, just to get vital information, and it is not a good use of employee time to be answering such questions repeatedly. I simply save each PDF version with all its notes, and then I can look in each version that I have.

I think that well-produced videos, which abound on the web along with not-so-good vids, are very useful. I have seen a remark to the effect that someone was familiar with a different model of a radio, and when the newer one came out they were up and running in short order. But for someone not familiar with the product line, or perhaps not even familiar with radios in general, as a new ham, real howto vids can be most useful, I opine. I have been using Canon cameras for many years. I wanted a new point and shoot. So after reading reviews on various cameras (I am not especially brand-loyal) I decided to get a Canon. I had seen comments about how complicated it is for a PaS. I agree. But I found myself on familiar ground because of my years of experience w other Canons, so I was soon up and running. The other comments about it being complicated are valid, especially for one not already familiar with bigger Canon cameras.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: K4 training

On 8/8/2020 5:15 AM, Rich NE1EE wrote:
> I don't need a printed manual with my device. I think that they can look nice and be useful, though. I do appreciate a PDF that is not write protected, so that I can make my own notes and correct mistakes. I also appreciate a manual that is updated regularly. I don't like trolling lists and doing web searches, just to get vital information, and it is not a good use of employee time to be answering such questions repeatedly. I simply save each PDF version with all its notes, and then I can look in each version that I have.

Hi Rich,

I've also done a lot of tech writing over the years, including manuals
for engineering software. Elecraft manuals are all on their website, and
in my experience are pretty good. A printed copy is packed with their
products. My only complaint about revisions (and there are revisions,
mostly due to firmware upgrades) is that online versions should include
full change logs. Each product has its own updating program, and last I
looked, the only place they publish change logs, and it doesn't
reference the manual. This is convenient for Elecraft, but IMO, lousy
for the user.

73, Jim K9YC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]