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K4 Use Case Question - Support for multiple instances of WSJT-X

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Logan Zintsmaster

K4 Use Case Question - Support for multiple instances of WSJT-X

Here is a use case question..

The radio is connected to a single antenna.

VFO A is tuned to 14.074 MHz and VFO B is tuned to 14.080.

An audio data stream from the VFO A frequency is "connected" to an instance
of WSJT-X decoding FT8.

A second, independent audio stream from the VFO B frequency is concurrently
"connected" to a second instance of WSJT-X decoding FT4.

Both instances of WSJT-X decode their respective audio streams,
concurrently.

Starting a QSO in either instance of WSJT-X switches the transmitter to the
appropriate VFO for the duration of the QSO.

The audio stream for the instance of WSJT-X not in the QSO is interrupted
while the transmitter is operating.

Can a K4 support this use case or is a K4D required?

Can this use case be supported if each instance of WSJT-X is in a different
band?

73

Logan, KE7AZ

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David Gilbert

Re: K4 Use Case Question - Support for multiple instances of WSJT-X

I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesn't sound to
me like that would be effective with any single rig, K4 or otherwise.

First off, as best I can tell you need to assign different rigs to the
multiple instances of WSJT-X if run on the same computer. I don't
believe you can assign the same rig to two different instances unless
you use two separate computers, and then you have the nasty problem of
feuding CAT signals. Please correct me if you have found that statement
to be erroneous.

Secondly, you can't simultaneously transmit on both frequencies (unless
you use Fox/Hound mode, which is an entirely different matter) and you
can't receive on one frequency while transmitting on the other so you
end up staggering your QSOs with no gain in effectiveness ... other than
maybe quicker band switching than doing it manually.

It seems to me that to gain any benefit without using Fox/Hound you need
two separate transmitters, of course fed through a passive combiner if
using the same antenna.

Or what am I misunderstanding?

73,
Dave AB7E

On 8/19/2019 11:06 PM, Logan R Zintsmaster wrote:

> Here is a use case question..
>
> The radio is connected to a single antenna.
>
> VFO A is tuned to 14.074 MHz and VFO B is tuned to 14.080.
>
> An audio data stream from the VFO A frequency is "connected" to an instance
> of WSJT-X decoding FT8.
>
> A second, independent audio stream from the VFO B frequency is concurrently
> "connected" to a second instance of WSJT-X decoding FT4.
>
> Both instances of WSJT-X decode their respective audio streams,
> concurrently.
>
> Starting a QSO in either instance of WSJT-X switches the transmitter to the
> appropriate VFO for the duration of the QSO.
>
> The audio stream for the instance of WSJT-X not in the QSO is interrupted
> while the transmitter is operating.
>
>
>
> Can a K4 support this use case or is a K4D required?
>
> Can this use case be supported if each instance of WSJT-X is in a different
> band?
>
>
>
> 73
>
> Logan, KE7AZ
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Dave wo2x

Re: K4 Use Case Question - Support for multiple instances of WSJT-X

Dave,

Will be interesting to hear official answer from Elecraft.

A competitor’s radio does exactly what Logan outlined. You would bring up two instances of WSJT-X. Only one can transmit at a time.

Dave wo2x

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 20, 2019, at 3:38 AM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesn't sound to me like that would be effective with any single rig, K4 or otherwise.
>
> First off, as best I can tell you need to assign different rigs to the multiple instances of WSJT-X if run on the same computer. I don't believe you can assign the same rig to two different instances unless you use two separate computers, and then you have the nasty problem of feuding CAT signals. Please correct me if you have found that statement to be erroneous.
>
> Secondly, you can't simultaneously transmit on both frequencies (unless you use Fox/Hound mode, which is an entirely different matter) and you can't receive on one frequency while transmitting on the other so you end up staggering your QSOs with no gain in effectiveness ... other than maybe quicker band switching than doing it manually.
>
> It seems to me that to gain any benefit without using Fox/Hound you need two separate transmitters, of course fed through a passive combiner if using the same antenna.
>
> Or what am I misunderstanding?
>
> 73,
> Dave AB7E
>
>
>> On 8/19/2019 11:06 PM, Logan R Zintsmaster wrote:
>> Here is a use case question..
>>
>> The radio is connected to a single antenna.
>>
>> VFO A is tuned to 14.074 MHz and VFO B is tuned to 14.080.
>>
>> An audio data stream from the VFO A frequency is "connected" to an instance
>> of WSJT-X decoding FT8.
>>
>> A second, independent audio stream from the VFO B frequency is concurrently
>> "connected" to a second instance of WSJT-X decoding FT4.
>>
>> Both instances of WSJT-X decode their respective audio streams,
>> concurrently.
>>
>> Starting a QSO in either instance of WSJT-X switches the transmitter to the
>> appropriate VFO for the duration of the QSO.
>>
>> The audio stream for the instance of WSJT-X not in the QSO is interrupted
>> while the transmitter is operating.
>>
>>
>> Can a K4 support this use case or is a K4D required?
>>
>> Can this use case be supported if each instance of WSJT-X is in a different
>> band?
>>
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Logan, KE7AZ
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Nr4c

Re: K4 Use Case Question - Support for multiple instances of WSJT-X

I think you need a K4D with the second ADC. You’d have VFO A in left ear, VFO C in right ear. Two instances (installed in two separate folders) WSJT, one listening to left channel, other listening to right channel.

But you have to keep up with which is transmitting. Once you start a ASO on VFO A you don’t touch VFO C.

What’s to gain in this scenario?

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Aug 20, 2019, at 6:34 AM, Dave <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> Will be interesting to hear official answer from Elecraft.
>
> A competitor’s radio does exactly what Logan outlined. You would bring up two instances of WSJT-X. Only one can transmit at a time.
>
> Dave wo2x
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Aug 20, 2019, at 3:38 AM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesn't sound to me like that would be effective with any single rig, K4 or otherwise.
>>
>> First off, as best I can tell you need to assign different rigs to the multiple instances of WSJT-X if run on the same computer. I don't believe you can assign the same rig to two different instances unless you use two separate computers, and then you have the nasty problem of feuding CAT signals. Please correct me if you have found that statement to be erroneous.
>>
>> Secondly, you can't simultaneously transmit on both frequencies (unless you use Fox/Hound mode, which is an entirely different matter) and you can't receive on one frequency while transmitting on the other so you end up staggering your QSOs with no gain in effectiveness ... other than maybe quicker band switching than doing it manually.
>>
>> It seems to me that to gain any benefit without using Fox/Hound you need two separate transmitters, of course fed through a passive combiner if using the same antenna.
>>
>> Or what am I misunderstanding?
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave AB7E
>>
>>
>>> On 8/19/2019 11:06 PM, Logan R Zintsmaster wrote:
>>> Here is a use case question..
>>>
>>> The radio is connected to a single antenna.
>>>
>>> VFO A is tuned to 14.074 MHz and VFO B is tuned to 14.080.
>>>
>>> An audio data stream from the VFO A frequency is "connected" to an instance
>>> of WSJT-X decoding FT8.
>>>
>>> A second, independent audio stream from the VFO B frequency is concurrently
>>> "connected" to a second instance of WSJT-X decoding FT4.
>>>
>>> Both instances of WSJT-X decode their respective audio streams,
>>> concurrently.
>>>
>>> Starting a QSO in either instance of WSJT-X switches the transmitter to the
>>> appropriate VFO for the duration of the QSO.
>>>
>>> The audio stream for the instance of WSJT-X not in the QSO is interrupted
>>> while the transmitter is operating.
>>>
>>>
>>> Can a K4 support this use case or is a K4D required?
>> Dave,
>
> Will be interesting to hear official answer from Elecraft.
>
> A competitor’s radio does exactly what Logan outlined. You would bring up two instances of WSJT-X. Only one can transmit at a time.
>
> Dave wo2x
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Aug 20, 2019, at 3:38 AM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesn't sound to me like that would be effective with any single rig, K4 or otherwise.
>>
>> First off, as best I can tell you need to assign different rigs to the multiple instances of WSJT-X if run on the same computer. I don't believe you can assign the same rig to two different instances unless you use two separate computers, and then you have the nasty problem of feuding CAT signals. Please correct me if you have found that statement to be erroneous.
>>
>> Secondly, you can't simultaneously transmit on both frequencies (unless you use Fox/Hound mode, which is an entirely different matter) and you can't receive on one frequency while transmitting on the other so you end up staggering your QSOs with no gain in effectiveness ... other than maybe quicker band switching than doing it manually.
>>
>> It seems to me that to gain any benefit without using Fox/Hound you need two separate transmitters, of course fed through a passive combiner if using the same antenna.
>>
>> Or what am I misunderstanding?
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave AB7E
>>
>>
>>> On 8/19/2019 11:06 PM, Logan R Zintsmaster wrote:
>>> Here is a use case question..
>>>
>>> The radio is connected to a single antenna.
>>>
>>> VFO A is tuned to 14.074 MHz and VFO B is tuned to 14.080.
>>>
>>> An audio data stream from the VFO A frequency is "connected" to an instance
>>> of WSJT-X decoding FT8.
>>>
>>> A second, independent audio stream from the VFO B frequency is concurrently
>>> "connected" to a second instance of WSJT-X decoding FT4.
>>>
>>> Both instances of WSJT-X decode their respective audio streams,
>>> concurrently.
>>>
>>> Starting a QSO in either instance of WSJT-X switches the transmitter to the
>>> appropriate VFO for the duration of the QSO.
>>>
>>> The audio stream for the instance of WSJT-X not in the QSO is interrupted
>>> while the transmitter is operating.
>>>
>>>
>>> Can a K4 support this use case or is a K4D required?
>>>
>>> Can this use case be supported if each instance of WSJT-X is in a different
>>> band?
>>>
>>>
>>> 73
>>>
>>> Logan, KE7AZ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Dave wo2x

Re: K4 Use Case Question - Support for multiple instances of WSJT-X

I don’t think you need the second ADC since the two frequencies are only 6 kHz away from each other. Otherwise if you used two different ADCs you would then need two antennas.

Dave wo2x

Sent from my waxed string and tin cans.

> On Aug 20, 2019, at 7:03 AM, Nr4c <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I think you need a K4D with the second ADC. You’d have VFO A in left ear, VFO C in right ear. Two instances (installed in two separate folders) WSJT, one listening to left channel, other listening to right channel.
>
> But you have to keep up with which is transmitting. Once you start a ASO on VFO A you don’t touch VFO C.
>
> What’s to gain in this scenario?
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
>
>
>> On Aug 20, 2019, at 6:34 AM, Dave <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> Will be interesting to hear official answer from Elecraft.
>>
>> A competitor’s radio does exactly what Logan outlined. You would bring up two instances of WSJT-X. Only one can transmit at a time.
>>
>> Dave wo2x
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Aug 20, 2019, at 3:38 AM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesn't sound to me like that would be effective with any single rig, K4 or otherwise.
>>>
>>> First off, as best I can tell you need to assign different rigs to the multiple instances of WSJT-X if run on the same computer. I don't believe you can assign the same rig to two different instances unless you use two separate computers, and then you have the nasty problem of feuding CAT signals. Please correct me if you have found that statement to be erroneous.
>>>
>>> Secondly, you can't simultaneously transmit on both frequencies (unless you use Fox/Hound mode, which is an entirely different matter) and you can't receive on one frequency while transmitting on the other so you end up staggering your QSOs with no gain in effectiveness ... other than maybe quicker band switching than doing it manually.
>>>
>>> It seems to me that to gain any benefit without using Fox/Hound you need two separate transmitters, of course fed through a passive combiner if using the same antenna.
>>>
>>> Or what am I misunderstanding?
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Dave AB7E
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 8/19/2019 11:06 PM, Logan R Zintsmaster wrote:
>>>> Here is a use case question..
>>>>
>>>> The radio is connected to a single antenna.
>>>>
>>>> VFO A is tuned to 14.074 MHz and VFO B is tuned to 14.080.
>>>>
>>>> An audio data stream from the VFO A frequency is "connected" to an instance
>>>> of WSJT-X decoding FT8.
>>>>
>>>> A second, independent audio stream from the VFO B frequency is concurrently
>>>> "connected" to a second instance of WSJT-X decoding FT4.
>>>>
>>>> Both instances of WSJT-X decode their respective audio streams,
>>>> concurrently.
>>>>
>>>> Starting a QSO in either instance of WSJT-X switches the transmitter to the
>>>> appropriate VFO for the duration of the QSO.
>>>>
>>>> The audio stream for the instance of WSJT-X not in the QSO is interrupted
>>>> while the transmitter is operating.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can a K4 support this use case or is a K4D required?
>>> Dave,
>>
>> Will be interesting to hear official answer from Elecraft.
>>
>> A competitor’s radio does exactly what Logan outlined. You would bring up two instances of WSJT-X. Only one can transmit at a time.
>>
>> Dave wo2x
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Aug 20, 2019, at 3:38 AM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesn't sound to me like that would be effective with any single rig, K4 or otherwise.
>>>
>>> First off, as best I can tell you need to assign different rigs to the multiple instances of WSJT-X if run on the same computer. I don't believe you can assign the same rig to two different instances unless you use two separate computers, and then you have the nasty problem of feuding CAT signals. Please correct me if you have found that statement to be erroneous.
>>>
>>> Secondly, you can't simultaneously transmit on both frequencies (unless you use Fox/Hound mode, which is an entirely different matter) and you can't receive on one frequency while transmitting on the other so you end up staggering your QSOs with no gain in effectiveness ... other than maybe quicker band switching than doing it manually.
>>>
>>> It seems to me that to gain any benefit without using Fox/Hound you need two separate transmitters, of course fed through a passive combiner if using the same antenna.
>>>
>>> Or what am I misunderstanding?
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Dave AB7E
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 8/19/2019 11:06 PM, Logan R Zintsmaster wrote:
>>>> Here is a use case question..
>>>>
>>>> The radio is connected to a single antenna.
>>>>
>>>> VFO A is tuned to 14.074 MHz and VFO B is tuned to 14.080.
>>>>
>>>> An audio data stream from the VFO A frequency is "connected" to an instance
>>>> of WSJT-X decoding FT8.
>>>>
>>>> A second, independent audio stream from the VFO B frequency is concurrently
>>>> "connected" to a second instance of WSJT-X decoding FT4.
>>>>
>>>> Both instances of WSJT-X decode their respective audio streams,
>>>> concurrently.
>>>>
>>>> Starting a QSO in either instance of WSJT-X switches the transmitter to the
>>>> appropriate VFO for the duration of the QSO.
>>>>
>>>> The audio stream for the instance of WSJT-X not in the QSO is interrupted
>>>> while the transmitter is operating.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can a K4 support this use case or is a K4D required?
>>>>
>>>> Can this use case be supported if each instance of WSJT-X is in a different
>>>> band?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 73
>>>>
>>>> Logan, KE7AZ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

wayne burdick

Re: K4 Use Case Question - Support for multiple instances of WSJT-X

Administrator

In reply to this post by Logan Zintsmaster

This will work with either a K4 or a K4D. The VFOs can be on the same or different bands.

If the two receivers were on different bands, and you only had one antenna, you'd want to make VFO A the higher-frequency band. This is because with a single antenna, both receivers would be sharing the transmit signal path, which includes low-pass filters.

Suppose VFO A is on 20 meters and VFO B is on 40 meters. Both are subject to the 20 meter low-pass filter, so both will have full sensitivity. Now you want to work a station heard on 40 meters (VFO B/sub). Since you need the 40 meter low-pass filter for transmit, you'd the controlling computer would need to swap VFOs (or you could do this manually by tapping A/B).

* * *

Notes:

- If you had a separate receiving antenna usable on multiple bands, then the low-pass filter constraint goes away; either VFO could be on any band. You'd still need to swap VFOs to transmit on the VFO B band, then swap back.

- If you had a K4D, then each receiver would have its own set of bandpass filters, which may be helpful in high-signal conditions. They could also use different antennas.

- It may even be possible to run WSJT on the K4 itself, though I can't put a date on this. Some porting required :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR

> On Aug 19, 2019, at 11:06 PM, Logan R Zintsmaster <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Here is a use case question..
>
> The radio is connected to a single antenna.
>
> VFO A is tuned to 14.074 MHz and VFO B is tuned to 14.080.
>
> An audio data stream from the VFO A frequency is "connected" to an instance
> of WSJT-X decoding FT8.
>
> A second, independent audio stream from the VFO B frequency is concurrently
> "connected" to a second instance of WSJT-X decoding FT4.
>
> Both instances of WSJT-X decode their respective audio streams,
> concurrently.
>
> Starting a QSO in either instance of WSJT-X switches the transmitter to the
> appropriate VFO for the duration of the QSO.
>
> The audio stream for the instance of WSJT-X not in the QSO is interrupted
> while the transmitter is operating.
>
>
>
> Can a K4 support this use case or is a K4D required?
>
> Can this use case be supported if each instance of WSJT-X is in a different
> band?
>
>
>
> 73
>
> Logan, KE7AZ
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

wayne burdick

Re: K4 Use Case Question - Support for multiple instances of WSJT-X

Administrator

In reply to this post by Dave wo2x

Even a basic K4 can have the two receivers as far apart as you'd like, including on two different bands.

The K4D (or a K4 with the KRX4 option added later on) gives you a second set of band-pass filters and the ability to use two different antennas.

Wayne
N6KR

> On Aug 20, 2019, at 5:08 AM, Dave <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I don’t think you need the second ADC since the two frequencies are only 6 kHz away from each other. Otherwise if you used two different ADCs you would then need two antennas.
>
> Dave wo2x
>
> Sent from my waxed string and tin cans.
>
>> On Aug 20, 2019, at 7:03 AM, Nr4c <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I think you need a K4D with the second ADC. You’d have VFO A in left ear, VFO C in right ear. Two instances (installed in two separate folders) WSJT, one listening to left channel, other listening to right channel.
>>
>> But you have to keep up with which is transmitting. Once you start a ASO on VFO A you don’t touch VFO C.
>>
>> What’s to gain in this scenario?
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ...nr4c. bill
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 20, 2019, at 6:34 AM, Dave <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dave,
>>>
>>> Will be interesting to hear official answer from Elecraft.
>>>
>>> A competitor’s radio does exactly what Logan outlined. You would bring up two instances of WSJT-X. Only one can transmit at a time.
>>>
>>> Dave wo2x
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Aug 20, 2019, at 3:38 AM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesn't sound to me like that would be effective with any single rig, K4 or otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> First off, as best I can tell you need to assign different rigs to the multiple instances of WSJT-X if run on the same computer. I don't believe you can assign the same rig to two different instances unless you use two separate computers, and then you have the nasty problem of feuding CAT signals. Please correct me if you have found that statement to be erroneous.
>>>>
>>>> Secondly, you can't simultaneously transmit on both frequencies (unless you use Fox/Hound mode, which is an entirely different matter) and you can't receive on one frequency while transmitting on the other so you end up staggering your QSOs with no gain in effectiveness ... other than maybe quicker band switching than doing it manually.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that to gain any benefit without using Fox/Hound you need two separate transmitters, of course fed through a passive combiner if using the same antenna.
>>>>
>>>> Or what am I misunderstanding?
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Dave AB7E
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/19/2019 11:06 PM, Logan R Zintsmaster wrote:
>>>>> Here is a use case question..
>>>>>
>>>>> The radio is connected to a single antenna.
>>>>>
>>>>> VFO A is tuned to 14.074 MHz and VFO B is tuned to 14.080.
>>>>>
>>>>> An audio data stream from the VFO A frequency is "connected" to an instance
>>>>> of WSJT-X decoding FT8.
>>>>>
>>>>> A second, independent audio stream from the VFO B frequency is concurrently
>>>>> "connected" to a second instance of WSJT-X decoding FT4.
>>>>>
>>>>> Both instances of WSJT-X decode their respective audio streams,
>>>>> concurrently.
>>>>>
>>>>> Starting a QSO in either instance of WSJT-X switches the transmitter to the
>>>>> appropriate VFO for the duration of the QSO.
>>>>>
>>>>> The audio stream for the instance of WSJT-X not in the QSO is interrupted
>>>>> while the transmitter is operating.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can a K4 support this use case or is a K4D required?
>>>> Dave,
>>>
>>> Will be interesting to hear official answer from Elecraft.
>>>
>>> A competitor’s radio does exactly what Logan outlined. You would bring up two instances of WSJT-X. Only one can transmit at a time.
>>>
>>> Dave wo2x
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Aug 20, 2019, at 3:38 AM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesn't sound to me like that would be effective with any single rig, K4 or otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> First off, as best I can tell you need to assign different rigs to the multiple instances of WSJT-X if run on the same computer. I don't believe you can assign the same rig to two different instances unless you use two separate computers, and then you have the nasty problem of feuding CAT signals. Please correct me if you have found that statement to be erroneous.
>>>>
>>>> Secondly, you can't simultaneously transmit on both frequencies (unless you use Fox/Hound mode, which is an entirely different matter) and you can't receive on one frequency while transmitting on the other so you end up staggering your QSOs with no gain in effectiveness ... other than maybe quicker band switching than doing it manually.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that to gain any benefit without using Fox/Hound you need two separate transmitters, of course fed through a passive combiner if using the same antenna.
>>>>
>>>> Or what am I misunderstanding?
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Dave AB7E
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/19/2019 11:06 PM, Logan R Zintsmaster wrote:
>>>>> Here is a use case question..
>>>>>
>>>>> The radio is connected to a single antenna.
>>>>>
>>>>> VFO A is tuned to 14.074 MHz and VFO B is tuned to 14.080.
>>>>>
>>>>> An audio data stream from the VFO A frequency is "connected" to an instance
>>>>> of WSJT-X decoding FT8.
>>>>>
>>>>> A second, independent audio stream from the VFO B frequency is concurrently
>>>>> "connected" to a second instance of WSJT-X decoding FT4.
>>>>>
>>>>> Both instances of WSJT-X decode their respective audio streams,
>>>>> concurrently.
>>>>>
>>>>> Starting a QSO in either instance of WSJT-X switches the transmitter to the
>>>>> appropriate VFO for the duration of the QSO.
>>>>>
>>>>> The audio stream for the instance of WSJT-X not in the QSO is interrupted
>>>>> while the transmitter is operating.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can a K4 support this use case or is a K4D required?
>>>>>
>>>>> Can this use case be supported if each instance of WSJT-X is in a different
>>>>> band?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 73
>>>>>
>>>>> Logan, KE7AZ
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>>> ______________________________________________________________
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David Gilbert

Re: K4 Use Case Question - Support for multiple instances of WSJT-X

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Other than being able to monitor two different bands (or two different
sections on the same band) I'm not sure what the benefit here is, but I
wonder if I could accomplish the same thing with my K3.

1. Run two instances of WSJT-X
2. Use two different USB sound card dongles, each port assigned to one
of the WSJT-X instances
3. Use left ear/right ear audio output from the two K3 VFOs, left ear
to one USB sound card and right ear to the other
4. Use "Fake it" instead of "Rig" split control

I don't see that there's any gain in contact efficiency here, though.
The transmissions for two different QSOs would have to alternate, and
the odds of getting out of sync with the guy on the other end would be
significant. If you were actually making a lot contacts from both VFOs
this way you'd be disrupting a lot of sequences, and if everyone else
was doing this it would be total chaos.

So I'll ask again ... what am I missing here?

73,
Dave AB7E

On 8/20/2019 8:27 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> This will work with either a K4 or a K4D. The VFOs can be on the same or different bands.
>
> If the two receivers were on different bands, and you only had one antenna, you'd want to make VFO A the higher-frequency band. This is because with a single antenna, both receivers would be sharing the transmit signal path, which includes low-pass filters.
>
> Suppose VFO A is on 20 meters and VFO B is on 40 meters. Both are subject to the 20 meter low-pass filter, so both will have full sensitivity. Now you want to work a station heard on 40 meters (VFO B/sub). Since you need the 40 meter low-pass filter for transmit, you'd the controlling computer would need to swap VFOs (or you could do this manually by tapping A/B).
>
> * * *
>
> Notes:
>
> - If you had a separate receiving antenna usable on multiple bands, then the low-pass filter constraint goes away; either VFO could be on any band. You'd still need to swap VFOs to transmit on the VFO B band, then swap back.
>
> - If you had a K4D, then each receiver would have its own set of bandpass filters, which may be helpful in high-signal conditions. They could also use different antennas.
>
> - It may even be possible to run WSJT on the K4 itself, though I can't put a date on this. Some porting required :)
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
>> On Aug 19, 2019, at 11:06 PM, Logan R Zintsmaster <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Here is a use case question..
>>
>> The radio is connected to a single antenna.
>>
>> VFO A is tuned to 14.074 MHz and VFO B is tuned to 14.080.
>>
>> An audio data stream from the VFO A frequency is "connected" to an instance
>> of WSJT-X decoding FT8.
>>
>> A second, independent audio stream from the VFO B frequency is concurrently
>> "connected" to a second instance of WSJT-X decoding FT4.
>>
>> Both instances of WSJT-X decode their respective audio streams,
>> concurrently.
>>
>> Starting a QSO in either instance of WSJT-X switches the transmitter to the
>> appropriate VFO for the duration of the QSO.
>>
>> The audio stream for the instance of WSJT-X not in the QSO is interrupted
>> while the transmitter is operating.
>>
>>
>>
>> Can a K4 support this use case or is a K4D required?
>>
>> Can this use case be supported if each instance of WSJT-X is in a different
>> band?
>>
>>
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Logan, KE7AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Logan Zintsmaster

Re: K4 Use Case Question - Support for multiple instances of WSJT-X

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Thanks for the explanation. The band pass filters add an interesting consideration to multi-band use.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 20, 2019, at 8:27 AM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This will work with either a K4 or a K4D. The VFOs can be on the same or different bands.
>
> If the two receivers were on different bands, and you only had one antenna, you'd want to make VFO A the higher-frequency band. This is because with a single antenna, both receivers would be sharing the transmit signal path, which includes low-pass filters.
>
> Suppose VFO A is on 20 meters and VFO B is on 40 meters. Both are subject to the 20 meter low-pass filter, so both will have full sensitivity. Now you want to work a station heard on 40 meters (VFO B/sub). Since you need the 40 meter low-pass filter for transmit, you'd the controlling computer would need to swap VFOs (or you could do this manually by tapping A/B).
>
> * * *
>
> Notes:
>
> - If you had a separate receiving antenna usable on multiple bands, then the low-pass filter constraint goes away; either VFO could be on any band. You'd still need to swap VFOs to transmit on the VFO B band, then swap back.
>
> - If you had a K4D, then each receiver would have its own set of bandpass filters, which may be helpful in high-signal conditions. They could also use different antennas.
>
> - It may even be possible to run WSJT on the K4 itself, though I can't put a date on this. Some porting required :)
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
>> On Aug 19, 2019, at 11:06 PM, Logan R Zintsmaster <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Here is a use case question..
>>
>> The radio is connected to a single antenna.
>>
>> VFO A is tuned to 14.074 MHz and VFO B is tuned to 14.080.
>>
>> An audio data stream from the VFO A frequency is "connected" to an instance
>> of WSJT-X decoding FT8.
>>
>> A second, independent audio stream from the VFO B frequency is concurrently
>> "connected" to a second instance of WSJT-X decoding FT4.
>>
>> Both instances of WSJT-X decode their respective audio streams,
>> concurrently.
>>
>> Starting a QSO in either instance of WSJT-X switches the transmitter to the
>> appropriate VFO for the duration of the QSO.
>>
>> The audio stream for the instance of WSJT-X not in the QSO is interrupted
>> while the transmitter is operating.
>>
>>
>>
>> Can a K4 support this use case or is a K4D required?
>>
>> Can this use case be supported if each instance of WSJT-X is in a different
>> band?
>>
>>
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Logan, KE7AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Logan Zintsmaster

Re: K4 Use Case Question - Support for multiple instances of WSJT-X

In reply to this post by Nr4c

First, I don't intend to transmit on both VFO's at the same time. I only have one transmitter. But I do like having the ability to do an instant QSY. Here are a couple of examples of how I use this capability.

“Multi-tasking”. You are chasing a goal: states, grid squares, thirteen colonies, Rt 66, etc. There is lots of activity on FT4 and FT8 and you don’t want to miss that tough one to find just because it was on the mode you weren’t using. So you switch back and forth as needed.

“Picture in Picture”. There’s a DXpedition using FT4 on a non-standard frequency but the band isn’t open yet. So, you want to continue working states while you watch for the DXpedition. This works particularly well with the digital modes because the decoding not only gives you call sign and location, but you can see how others are doing. One DXpedition that I watched was running Fox/Hound and I could see lots of stations calling but there were no exchanges.

I'm sure there are examples that others can suggest.

73
Logan, KE7AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Nr4c
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 4:03 AM
To: Dave <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4 Use Case Question - Support for multiple instances of WSJT-X

I think you need a K4D with the second ADC. You’d have VFO A in left ear, VFO C in right ear. Two instances (installed in two separate folders) WSJT, one listening to left channel, other listening to right channel.

But you have to keep up with which is transmitting. Once you start a ASO on VFO A you don’t touch VFO C.

What’s to gain in this scenario?

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Aug 20, 2019, at 6:34 AM, Dave <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> Will be interesting to hear official answer from Elecraft.
>
> A competitor’s radio does exactly what Logan outlined. You would bring up two instances of WSJT-X. Only one can transmit at a time.
>
> Dave wo2x
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Aug 20, 2019, at 3:38 AM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesn't sound to me like that would be effective with any single rig, K4 or otherwise.
>>
>> First off, as best I can tell you need to assign different rigs to the multiple instances of WSJT-X if run on the same computer. I don't believe you can assign the same rig to two different instances unless you use two separate computers, and then you have the nasty problem of feuding CAT signals. Please correct me if you have found that statement to be erroneous.
>>
>> Secondly, you can't simultaneously transmit on both frequencies (unless you use Fox/Hound mode, which is an entirely different matter) and you can't receive on one frequency while transmitting on the other so you end up staggering your QSOs with no gain in effectiveness ... other than maybe quicker band switching than doing it manually.
>>
>> It seems to me that to gain any benefit without using Fox/Hound you need two separate transmitters, of course fed through a passive combiner if using the same antenna.
>>
>> Or what am I misunderstanding?
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave AB7E
>>
>>
>>> On 8/19/2019 11:06 PM, Logan R Zintsmaster wrote:
>>> Here is a use case question..
>>>
>>> The radio is connected to a single antenna.
>>>
>>> VFO A is tuned to 14.074 MHz and VFO B is tuned to 14.080.
>>>
>>> An audio data stream from the VFO A frequency is "connected" to an
>>> instance of WSJT-X decoding FT8.
>>>
>>> A second, independent audio stream from the VFO B frequency is
>>> concurrently "connected" to a second instance of WSJT-X decoding FT4.
>>>
>>> Both instances of WSJT-X decode their respective audio streams,
>>> concurrently.
>>>
>>> Starting a QSO in either instance of WSJT-X switches the transmitter
>>> to the appropriate VFO for the duration of the QSO.
>>>
>>> The audio stream for the instance of WSJT-X not in the QSO is
>>> interrupted while the transmitter is operating.
>>>
>>>
>>> Can a K4 support this use case or is a K4D required?
>> Dave,
>
> Will be interesting to hear official answer from Elecraft.
>
> A competitor’s radio does exactly what Logan outlined. You would bring up two instances of WSJT-X. Only one can transmit at a time.
>
> Dave wo2x
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Aug 20, 2019, at 3:38 AM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesn't sound to me like that would be effective with any single rig, K4 or otherwise.
>>
>> First off, as best I can tell you need to assign different rigs to the multiple instances of WSJT-X if run on the same computer. I don't believe you can assign the same rig to two different instances unless you use two separate computers, and then you have the nasty problem of feuding CAT signals. Please correct me if you have found that statement to be erroneous.
>>
>> Secondly, you can't simultaneously transmit on both frequencies (unless you use Fox/Hound mode, which is an entirely different matter) and you can't receive on one frequency while transmitting on the other so you end up staggering your QSOs with no gain in effectiveness ... other than maybe quicker band switching than doing it manually.
>>
>> It seems to me that to gain any benefit without using Fox/Hound you need two separate transmitters, of course fed through a passive combiner if using the same antenna.
>>
>> Or what am I misunderstanding?
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave AB7E
>>
>>
>>> On 8/19/2019 11:06 PM, Logan R Zintsmaster wrote:
>>> Here is a use case question..
>>>
>>> The radio is connected to a single antenna.
>>>
>>> VFO A is tuned to 14.074 MHz and VFO B is tuned to 14.080.
>>>
>>> An audio data stream from the VFO A frequency is "connected" to an
>>> instance of WSJT-X decoding FT8.
>>>
>>> A second, independent audio stream from the VFO B frequency is
>>> concurrently "connected" to a second instance of WSJT-X decoding FT4.
>>>
>>> Both instances of WSJT-X decode their respective audio streams,
>>> concurrently.
>>>
>>> Starting a QSO in either instance of WSJT-X switches the transmitter
>>> to the appropriate VFO for the duration of the QSO.
>>>
>>> The audio stream for the instance of WSJT-X not in the QSO is
>>> interrupted while the transmitter is operating.
>>>
>>>
>>> Can a K4 support this use case or is a K4D required?
>>>
>>> Can this use case be supported if each instance of WSJT-X is in a
>>> different band?
>>>
>>>
>>> 73
>>>
>>> Logan, KE7AZ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
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>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> [hidden email]
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>
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> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]

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