Elecraft

K4

Classic

List

Threaded

32 messages Options

Elecraft mailing list

K4

Wow. No K4 at Dayton?
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Peter Pauly

Re: K4

I asked Eric if there were any new products and he said just the new amp
and the little portable antenna.

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 3:36 PM, mark roz via Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Wow. No K4 at Dayton?
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: K4

When your topline rig are is at or near the top of Rob Sherwood's list
of the best receivers and of the cleanest CW transmitters tested by
ARRL, and your super-portable rigs give most desktop rigs a run for
their money on performance, and when you've got first-rate power amps at
the 100w, 500W, and 1,500W level, it's hard to justify the argument for
a new transceiver.

73, Jim K9YC

On 5/18/2018 1:07 PM, Peter Pauly wrote:
> I asked Eric if there were any new products and he said just the new amp
> and the little portable antenna.
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 3:36 PM, mark roz via Elecraft <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Wow. No K4 at Dayton?

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Elecraft mailing list

Re: K4

I cut my programming teeth on a VAX-11/780 - sure brings back some great memories… thanks!

Michael
KK6RWK

> On May 18, 2018, at 2:04 PM, Walter Underwood <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I consider the K3S to be what Gordon Bell called a “mid-life kicker”. That is a technology upgrade with small changes to the design. It extends the life of a product without the cost of a major redesign. It can be a very smart move.
>
> For example, the VAX-11/785 was the same as the VAX-11/780, but built with a faster logic family so it was 50% faster. That is a pure example—a DEC spokesman called it “bug for bug compatible”.
>
> This is the section on “mid-life kickers” from a long chapter by Bell, Mudge, and McNamara about technology and product strategy.
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=SDOoBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=gordon+bell+mid-life+kicker&source=bl&ots=qrJ7DM7xPt&sig=YZyqZTRujNvDkGTgPQffOUv2UBo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjI6fGJkJDbAhWHO48KHVSyCWUQ6AEwAHoECAEQKg#v=onepage&q=gordon%20bell%20mid-life%20kicker&f=false
>
> And of course, you stay on top by obsoleting your own stuff before your competitors do that.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
>> On May 18, 2018, at 1:41 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> When your topline rig are is at or near the top of Rob Sherwood's list of the best receivers and of the cleanest CW transmitters tested by ARRL, and your super-portable rigs give most desktop rigs a run for their money on performance, and when you've got first-rate power amps at the 100w, 500W, and 1,500W level, it's hard to justify the argument for a new transceiver.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>> On 5/18/2018 1:07 PM, Peter Pauly wrote:
>>> I asked Eric if there were any new products and he said just the new amp
>>> and the little portable antenna.
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 3:36 PM, mark roz via Elecraft <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wow. No K4 at Dayton?
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

NK7Z

Re: K4

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

But Jim, this is America, we need to "up the ante", the new K3,
Super-SDR, Multiband, multi-mode, non-QRP, 100 watt radio will be for
sale... Oh-- wait, it's called the K3s... :)

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net

On 05/18/2018 01:41 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> When your topline rig are is at or near the top of Rob Sherwood's list
> of the best receivers and of the cleanest CW transmitters tested by
> ARRL, and your super-portable rigs give most desktop rigs a run for
> their money on performance, and when you've got first-rate power amps at
> the 100w, 500W, and 1,500W level, it's hard to justify the argument for
> a new transceiver.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 5/18/2018 1:07 PM, Peter Pauly wrote:
>> I asked Eric if there were any new products and he said just the new amp
>> and the little portable antenna.
>>
>> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 3:36 PM, mark roz via Elecraft <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow. No K4 at Dayton?
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

k2ud

Re: K4

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

What features would your K4 have?

In mine, it would be satellite-ready: full duplex, 2 & 435. Interfaceable to common satellite programs.

72

Howard Kraus, K2UD
---- mark roz via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:

Richard Lamont

Re: K4

On 19/05/18 00:15, [hidden email] wrote:

> What features would your K4 have?

Compared to the K3S:

RX maximum audio bandwidth increased from 4 kHz to 6 kHz.

More macro buttons.

Higher resolution S-meter (more bargraph segments).

1/4" jacks instead of 3.5mm ones.

Longer&fatter 13.8V power cable

24-bit digital audio i/o, without going D-A-D.

Steeper filter slopes on SSB TX passband to widen audio while staying
within 3 kHz occupied bandwidth (cf IC7300).

73,
Richard G4DYA
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

N2TK

Re: K4

And better NR like Icom
N2TK, Tony

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 18, 2018, at 7:38 PM, Richard Lamont <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 19/05/18 00:15, [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>> What features would your K4 have?
>
> Compared to the K3S:
>
> RX maximum audio bandwidth increased from 4 kHz to 6 kHz.
>
> More macro buttons.
>
> Higher resolution S-meter (more bargraph segments).
>
> 1/4" jacks instead of 3.5mm ones.
>
> Longer&fatter 13.8V power cable
>
> 24-bit digital audio i/o, without going D-A-D.
>
> Steeper filter slopes on SSB TX passband to widen audio while staying
> within 3 kHz occupied bandwidth (cf IC7300).
>
>
> 73,
> Richard G4DYA
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Mike Markowski-2

Re: K4

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Some solder smoke, a Raspberry Pi, and modern 'retro' computing!

http://udel.edu/~mm/pidp8i/

:-)

73,
Mike ab3ap

On 05/18/2018 05:13 PM, Michael Gillen via Elecraft wrote:

> I cut my programming teeth on a VAX-11/780 - sure brings back some great memories… thanks!
>
> Michael
> KK6RWK
>
>
>> On May 18, 2018, at 2:04 PM, Walter Underwood <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I consider the K3S to be what Gordon Bell called a “mid-life kicker”. That is a technology upgrade with small changes to the design. It extends the life of a product without the cost of a major redesign. It can be a very smart move.
>>
>> For example, the VAX-11/785 was the same as the VAX-11/780, but built with a faster logic family so it was 50% faster. That is a pure example—a DEC spokesman called it “bug for bug compatible”.
>>
>> This is the section on “mid-life kickers” from a long chapter by Bell, Mudge, and McNamara about technology and product strategy.
>>
>> https://books.google.com/books?id=SDOoBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=gordon+bell+mid-life+kicker&source=bl&ots=qrJ7DM7xPt&sig=YZyqZTRujNvDkGTgPQffOUv2UBo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjI6fGJkJDbAhWHO48KHVSyCWUQ6AEwAHoECAEQKg#v=onepage&q=gordon%20bell%20mid-life%20kicker&f=false
>>
>> And of course, you stay on top by obsoleting your own stuff before your competitors do that.
>>
>> wunder
>> K6WRU
>> Walter Underwood
>> CM87wj
>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>>
>>> On May 18, 2018, at 1:41 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> When your topline rig are is at or near the top of Rob Sherwood's list of the best receivers and of the cleanest CW transmitters tested by ARRL, and your super-portable rigs give most desktop rigs a run for their money on performance, and when you've got first-rate power amps at the 100w, 500W, and 1,500W level, it's hard to justify the argument for a new transceiver.
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>>
>>> On 5/18/2018 1:07 PM, Peter Pauly wrote:
>>>> I asked Eric if there were any new products and he said just the new amp
>>>> and the little portable antenna.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 3:36 PM, mark roz via Elecraft <
>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wow. No K4 at Dayton?
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: K4

In reply to this post by Richard Lamont

On 5/18/2018 4:38 PM, Richard Lamont wrote:
> On 19/05/18 00:15, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> What features would your K4 have?
> Compared to the K3S:
>
> RX maximum audio bandwidth increased from 4 kHz to 6 kHz.

Why? It's a ham transceiver. If you want a "short wave" RX to listen
to broadcast, buy an inexpensive SDR that plugs into your USB port and
have any bandwidth you like!
https://www.rtl-sdr.com/roundup-software-defined-radios/

I own both an SDRPlay RSP1A ($99) and a FunCube Dongle Pro+ ($210). I
bought them for chasing RFI, but they work very well as receivers. Many
great (and free) choices of SDR software, including this by Simon Brown,
G4ELI.

> More macro buttons.

Can't argue with that, but the radio would need to be bigger. Have you
studied the manual for the many ways to save presets of frequency, mode,
etc. ? Lots of things we want to assign to macros can be solved that way.

> Higher resolution S-meter (more bargraph segments).

Why is that important?

> 1/4" jacks instead of 3.5mm ones.

Why? Quality of jacks and plugs? Simply buy good quality plugs
(Neutrik and Switchcraft are the good brands) and make your own cables.
And if you want those bigger jacks, the radio would have to be larger.

> Longer&fatter 13.8V power cable

Buy a Power Pole connector pair, buy the size of cable you want, pull
out your soldering iron and make any power cable you want.

> 24-bit digital audio i/o, without going D-A-D.

To what benefit?

> Steeper filter slopes on SSB TX passband to widen audio while staying
> within 3 kHz occupied bandwidth (cf IC7300).

Buy and plug in a 8-pole 2.8 kHz roofing filter to replace the 2.7 kHz
filter. If you can tell the difference between that and 3 kHz bandwidth
you've got better ears than me. Further, any audio content below about
400 Hz is wasted in a communications circuit.

73, Jim K9YC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Dan Baker

Re: K4

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Yes a new K4 with integrated pan adapter would be cool. But I would not
expect one anytime soon. The K3S is not going be out done in the near
future. What I would like to see is a 30-watt portable rig. When 5 watts is
not enough, 30 watts often is as good as 100 watts. A small 30 watt rig
would be easier to carry then a KX3 and amp or a K3S. Kind of like the old
SGC 2020. I run my 100-watt rig at 25 watts in the field and it works well
and conserves the battery. I think there is a void in the market currently
for that type of rig. Elecraft could knock it out of the park if they built
one. All of us have a K3, KX3, KX2 that want one. But none of us have what
I just described.

73, Dan KM6CQ
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: K4

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

On 5/18/2018 7:43 PM, Ed W0YK wrote:
> There are ham reasons for this request, which I made to Wayne 2 years
> ago. We need a bit more RX/TX bandwidth for the combined JT65/9 modes.
>
> With WSJT, the upper end of the JT9 audio range is not available on
> the K3.

Hi Ed,

FWIW, I regularly copied JT9 signals up to at least 3 kHz; remember
that, in those days, JT9 typically started around 2 kHz baseband, and it
is possible to open up the RX IF bandwidth wider than that 2.8 kHz
roofing filter.

And although the worm will hopefully turn back in favor of JT65/JT9 on
160M, those modes have virtually disappeared since FT8 was introduced.
Last season, you, W6GJB, and I all worked SM6 on JT65, and WSJT-X
decoder logged several dozen EU stations. This year, I hear east coast
stations working (or at least calling) EU, but I've decoded ZERO EU
using FT8. (For those reading the mail, all three of us are within about
20 miles of each other, 70 miles S of San Francisco. What I'd love to
see is JT9 take over on 160M. If I'm not mistaken, it's good about 10 dB
deeper into the noise than FT8.

And while it's true that any of the slow WSJT modes would benefit from
greater IF and audio bandwidth by providing space for more stations, few
other rigs offer that.

73, Jim K9YC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Stefan von Baltz, DL1IAO

Re: K4

Now that Eric is at the Hamvention we can not annoy him too much with mail overflow on this list ;-)

- I would like to see Elecraft revising the NR-function. While you can achieve nearly infinite noise attenuation with the K3’s NR it comes at the cost of signal intelligibility. At least I have failed to hit a setting for CW which works for me. The NR also seems to be dependent on AGC settings. With the IC7851’s NR at ca. 9 o’clock the band noise is cut about in half without affecting signals, even when they are weak. I do not miss this much in everyday operation. But the additional band noise really hurts in my ears when doing SO2R causing fatigue and ultimately increased error rate.

- I continue to be impressed by ICOM’s APF function. Combined with a few dB of additional amplification in the APF level menu this sort of has become a great „panic button“ for me when a weak station calls or QRM shows up. Elecrafts APF is way too sharp for this purpose. Maybe another APF with wider bandwidth could be added?

- It might also be helpful to add a simplified NB-menu which selects among some of your favourite settings. If you are forced to dig into the NB-menu in the middle of the heat the DX will long be gone until you have found the right setting to get rid of noise.

- Elecraft should consider adding mouse support for the panadapter.

- Coming from ICOM rigs I noticed that the knob resolution seems slow. This sticks out with the filter, RIT and power knobs. Too much knob spinning required for my taste. However, this may be subjective and there are work-arounds.

- I would also like to see Elecraft using higher quality buttons which are more responsive. When the K3 came out one of the reasons I never got one was the wobbling feel of the A/B (and other) knobs. It simply was not compatible with my style of operation which involves constantly switching VFOs when S&P. Yes, there are work-arounds, too.

I just realize that most of it may be another software upgrade. No K4 required!

73,

Stefan DL1IAO, SA3CWW/SM9A

--
Stefan v. Baltz
[hidden email]
http://www.dl1iao.com

> Am 19.05.2018 um 06:59 schrieb Jim Brown <[hidden email]>:
>
> On 5/18/2018 7:43 PM, Ed W0YK wrote:
>> There are ham reasons for this request, which I made to Wayne 2 years ago. We need a bit more RX/TX bandwidth for the combined JT65/9 modes.
>>
>> With WSJT, the upper end of the JT9 audio range is not available on the K3.
>
> Hi Ed,
>
> FWIW, I regularly copied JT9 signals up to at least 3 kHz; remember that, in those days, JT9 typically started around 2 kHz baseband, and it is possible to open up the RX IF bandwidth wider than that 2.8 kHz roofing filter.
>
> And although the worm will hopefully turn back in favor of JT65/JT9 on 160M, those modes have virtually disappeared since FT8 was introduced. Last season, you, W6GJB, and I all worked SM6 on JT65, and WSJT-X decoder logged several dozen EU stations. This year, I hear east coast stations working (or at least calling) EU, but I've decoded ZERO EU using FT8. (For those reading the mail, all three of us are within about 20 miles of each other, 70 miles S of San Francisco. What I'd love to see is JT9 take over on 160M. If I'm not mistaken, it's good about 10 dB deeper into the noise than FT8.
>
> And while it's true that any of the slow WSJT modes would benefit from greater IF and audio bandwidth by providing space for more stations, few other rigs offer that.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K4

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Ed,

> On 5/18/2018 7:43 PM, Ed W0YK wrote:
>> There are ham reasons for this request, which I made to Wayne 2
>> years ago. We need a bit more RX/TX bandwidth for the combined
>> JT65/9 modes.
>>
>> With WSJT, the upper end of the JT9 audio range is not available
>> on the K3.
Absolutely not true. All it takes is the KFL3B-FM of KFL3A-6K filter.
I regularly decode the entire 4 KHz combined JT65/JT9 segment or more
than 3 KHz of FT8 activity.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Ed Muns

Re: K4

That's fine for decode, but transmit uses the 2.8 kHz filter.
73,Ed W0YK
-------- Original message --------From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]> Date: 5/19/18 8:01 AM (GMT-05:00) To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4
Ed,

> On 5/18/2018 7:43 PM, Ed W0YK wrote:
>> There are ham reasons for this request, which I made to Wayne 2
>> years ago. We need a bit more RX/TX bandwidth for the combined
>> JT65/9 modes.
>>
>> With WSJT, the upper end of the JT9 audio range is not available
>> on the K3.
Absolutely not true. All it takes is the KFL3B-FM of KFL3A-6K filter.
I regularly decode the entire 4 KHz combined JT65/JT9 segment or more
than 3 KHz of FT8 activity.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Richard Lamont

Re: K4

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

On 19/05/18 03:18, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 5/18/2018 4:38 PM, Richard Lamont wrote:
>> On 19/05/18 00:15, [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>>> What features would your K4 have?
>> Compared to the K3S:
>>
>> RX maximum audio bandwidth increased from 4 kHz to 6 kHz.
>
> Why? It's a ham transceiver.

To be able to decode multiple digital signals at once. Also to diagnose
intruder signals. And yes, occasionally, to listen to AM broadcasts,
without having to buy something else as well when I've just drained my
bank account to buy a K4! There's no inherent reason why this needs to
compromise the performance as a purely ham rig - it just makes it more
useful for one or two other things as well.

>> More macro buttons.
>
> Can't argue with that, but the radio would need to be bigger. Have you
> studied the manual for the many ways to save presets of frequency, mode,
> etc. ? Lots of things we want to assign to macros can be solved that way.

Yes thank you. Bigger isn't a problem for me. If it is for you, don't
buy a K4, stick to the K3(S)!

>> Higher resolution S-meter (more bargraph segments).
>
> Why is that important?

Because it's often useful to be able to see small changes in signal
level, which you can't do at 5-6 dB per segment. For example when
rotating an antenna.

>> 1/4" jacks instead of 3.5mm ones.
>
> Why? Quality of jacks and plugs? Simply buy good quality plugs
> (Neutrik and Switchcraft are the good brands) and make your own cables.
> And if you want those bigger jacks, the radio would have to be larger.

I always buy Neutrik if I can, but IMHO there is no such thing as a good
quality 3.5mm jack plug. They are just too small and flimsy.

>> Longer&fatter 13.8V power cable
>
> Buy a Power Pole connector pair, buy the size of cable you want, pull
> out your soldering iron and make any power cable you want.

Obviously, but if I'm buying a K4 it would nice to have a cable in the
box that is long enough to reach from the rig to the PSU.

>> 24-bit digital audio i/o, without going D-A-D.
>
> To what benefit?

To get the same dynamic range on the audio I/O that already exists on
the 15 kHz IF. I'd like to be able to examine received signals using an
audio spectrum analyser with the maximum available dynamic range.

>> Steeper filter slopes on SSB TX passband to widen audio while staying
>> within 3 kHz occupied bandwidth (cf IC7300).
>
> Buy and plug in a 8-pole 2.8 kHz roofing filter to replace the 2.7 kHz
> filter. If you can tell the difference between that and 3 kHz bandwidth
> you've got better ears than me. Further, any audio content below about
> 400 Hz is wasted in a communications circuit.

I already have the 2.8 kHz filter, and I'm more interested in the slope
at the top end than the bottom. Some other rigs seem to do better by
doing the slope in DSP and using the roofing filter for just that -
roofing. (The 6 kHz filter, if fitted, could be used here.) As for
content below 400 Hz, you're right for DXing, but if you're trying to
have a normal conversation it's much nicer if it goes somewhat lower.

73,
Richard G4DYA
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K4

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

WSJT-X very elegantly uses split to offset the TX VFO an adjust
the transmit audio tone (subcarrier) to keep the tone frequency
between 1500 - 2000 Hz throughout the entire 4 KHz receive pass-
band. There is no need (or justification) for a wider transmit
bandwidth.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2018-05-19 8:07 AM, Ed W0YK wrote:

> That's fine for decode, but transmit uses the 2.8 kHz filter.
> 73,Ed W0YK
> -------- Original message --------From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]> Date: 5/19/18 8:01 AM (GMT-05:00) To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4
> Ed,
>
> > On 5/18/2018 7:43 PM, Ed W0YK wrote:
>>> There are ham reasons for this request, which I made to Wayne 2
>>> years ago. We need a bit more RX/TX bandwidth for the combined
>>> JT65/9 modes.
>>>
>>> With WSJT, the upper end of the JT9 audio range is not available
>>> on the K3.
> Absolutely not true. All it takes is the KFL3B-FM of KFL3A-6K filter.
> I regularly decode the entire 4 KHz combined JT65/JT9 segment or more
> than 3 KHz of FT8 activity.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Wes Stewart-2

Re: K4

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Even Rob Sherwood says his list isn't the only way to evaluate radios. And the
last time I checked, he uses ICOM.

There is a market for a "K4" although Elecraft will deny that one is being
designed, no doubt. They said the same about a higher power amp, remember? Now
they are shipping KPA1500s.

A desktop radio would have room for some desperately needed ergonomic
improvements. A tuning knob that doesn't rely on a felt washer to set dial drag
for example. Fifty-volt finals that have decent TX IMD performance unlike the
current abysmal IMD. This is a pet peeve of mine. What good would it do to brag
about RX third-order IMD performance if all of the signals on the band were from
other K3(S)?

I have a whole list; when Elecraft is ready for me to beta test a K, I'm available.

Wes N7WS

On 5/18/2018 1:41 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> When your topline rig are is at or near the top of Rob Sherwood's list of the
> best receivers and of the cleanest CW transmitters tested by ARRL, and your
> super-portable rigs give most desktop rigs a run for their money on
> performance, and when you've got first-rate power amps at the 100w, 500W, and
> 1,500W level, it's hard to justify the argument for a new transceiver.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 5/18/2018 1:07 PM, Peter Pauly wrote:
>> I asked Eric if there were any new products and he said just the new amp
>> and the little portable antenna.
>>
>> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 3:36 PM, mark roz via Elecraft <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:

Wes Stewart-2

Re: K4

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

I bought an RSP2 Pro from HRO. At my location it folded up like a cheap
suitcase from BC overload. The internal BC filter was useless. To their
credit, HRO took it back.

Since Elecraft sells an "all band" filter, which I have in my K3S, why wouldn't
it be reasonable to think of it as a "short-wave" radio?

Wes N7WS

On 5/18/2018 7:18 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> ...If you want a "short wave" RX to listen to broadcast, buy an inexpensive
> SDR that plugs into your USB port and have any bandwidth you like!
> https://www.rtl-sdr.com/roundup-software-defined-radios/
>
> I own both an SDRPlay RSP1A ($99) and a FunCube Dongle Pro+ ($210). I bought
> them for chasing RFI, but they work very well as receivers. Many great (and
> free) choices of SDR software, including this by Simon Brown, G4ELI.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Martin Sole-3

Re: K4

In reply to this post by Stefan von Baltz, DL1IAO

I'll weigh in on this a little before it gets stamped on again as being,
unfortunately, irrelevant and pointless.

I think there is a big gaping hole in the Elecraft product line. Not in
performance terms but more in ergonomics. A K3 has been my primary radio
for a few years now and before that an Orion, before that a TS940,
TS830- etc etc. Performance wise there is no doubt the K3 bests them
all, I recently built a K2 and think that's scarily good in raw
performance terms as well. My K3 is pretty much fully kitted out and I
have a P3 as well which is extremely useful and they're going nowhere.

From the super small super portable super capable K2 and KX3 to the
small and portable and no less capable K3/K3S their market segments are
well covered but KenYaeCom have surely sold enough
TS990,FT9000,IC7800/50/51 that shows well the market demand for a
quality high end desktop sized radio. If the pictures on QRZ are
anything to go by not everyone operates out of a shoe box with many
having dedicated rooms for their radio hobbies. If the shoe box is your
limitation then the K3 is undoubtedly a superb choice but where space is
less restricted a bit more in the way of panel acreage might well sway a
lot more FT9000/TS900/IC78xx users I feel, not to mention those of us
who just feel the K3 package is, for a desktop radio, just a bit too
much of a compromise.

Key requirements on my end after considerable K3 usage. A better more up
to date menu system that either removes or better, handles the myriad
un-intuitive selections. There are a number of menu options which unless
you have significant handbook familiarity lack explanation about
additional keypad presses. There are even some for which software
updates need to be consulted though that is a different matter. Some
menu choices could well be better homed as front panel controls. The
keypad is another area I find seriously lacking for a top end product.
Again, great for the type of product it is but I find it lacking. Band
keys, mode keys, a proper band stacking register, a better way to deal
with the sub receiver settings, more, bigger and wider spaced control
knobs, yes all of this needs panel space but that shouldn't really need
to be a problem. It's possible the entire form factor could use a
rethink, do we need a box 12 inches deep. Why not a front panel that is
16 inches by 6 inches on a radio that is just 5 inches deep. Overall it
would likely be a similar volume and contain just as much under the
skin. The Orion was probably overkill with the amount of fresh air in
every box, some careful plug in board stacking could have reduced the
box depth by half whilst retaining the same front panel space. A good
display with all info including the somewhat obligatory scope and
waterfall properly integrated seems a no brainer today I guess, of
course with a port for connection of 36 inch full 4k displays, ideally
with different screen displays.

I like the PA options today 10 or 100 watts, not sure how many are sold
as just 10 watt radios though. In a bigger box, something like the 7850,
16x17x6, it should be possible to integrate the KPA500 allowing for a
500 watt transceiver in one box.

Where space is a premium the integration of multiple controls carefully
arranged for maximum apparent efficiency is obviously a good thing
though I feel it can be overdone, the poor operability of the sub
receiver is a case in point and I've had heat of the moment run ins with
the mic gain compressor and monitor controls as well. Great when it
works as you think of it, less so when you're acting more by feel and
intuition doing 6 other things at once and get a mis-press.

Much of this is software, packaging and ergonomics/HMI, so far as the
pure RF side is concerned it's clear that things are evolving still and
it can't be long before pure wideband direct digital SDR becomes the
mainstream.

It's hard to fault the K3 on so many levels, it's just such a great
radio but it's by no means an unflawed or unlimited radio and there are
areas of the ham radio business Elecraft are yet to tread.

Oh and I'd love them to do a 2-35Mhz 125 watt radio suitable for
commercial use. So many opportunities where the options today are either
VK mobiles or US mil spec but that really is another topic.

Martin, HS0ZED

On 19/05/2018 17:38, Stefan von Baltz, DL1IAO wrote:

> Now that Eric is at the Hamvention we can not annoy him too much with mail overflow on this list ;-)
>
> - I would like to see Elecraft revising the NR-function. While you can achieve nearly infinite noise attenuation with the K3’s NR it comes at the cost of signal intelligibility. At least I have failed to hit a setting for CW which works for me. The NR also seems to be dependent on AGC settings. With the IC7851’s NR at ca. 9 o’clock the band noise is cut about in half without affecting signals, even when they are weak. I do not miss this much in everyday operation. But the additional band noise really hurts in my ears when doing SO2R causing fatigue and ultimately increased error rate.
>
> - I continue to be impressed by ICOM’s APF function. Combined with a few dB of additional amplification in the APF level menu this sort of has become a great „panic button“ for me when a weak station calls or QRM shows up. Elecrafts APF is way too sharp for this purpose. Maybe another APF with wider bandwidth could be added?
>
> - It might also be helpful to add a simplified NB-menu which selects among some of your favourite settings. If you are forced to dig into the NB-menu in the middle of the heat the DX will long be gone until you have found the right setting to get rid of noise.
>
> - Elecraft should consider adding mouse support for the panadapter.
>
> - Coming from ICOM rigs I noticed that the knob resolution seems slow. This sticks out with the filter, RIT and power knobs. Too much knob spinning required for my taste. However, this may be subjective and there are work-arounds.
>
> - I would also like to see Elecraft using higher quality buttons which are more responsive. When the K3 came out one of the reasons I never got one was the wobbling feel of the A/B (and other) knobs. It simply was not compatible with my style of operation which involves constantly switching VFOs when S&P. Yes, there are work-arounds, too.
>
>
> I just realize that most of it may be another software upgrade. No K4 required!
>
>
> 73,
>
> Stefan DL1IAO, SA3CWW/SM9A
>
>
> --
> Stefan v. Baltz
> [hidden email]
> http://www.dl1iao.com
>
>
>
>
>
>> Am 19.05.2018 um 06:59 schrieb Jim Brown <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> On 5/18/2018 7:43 PM, Ed W0YK wrote:
>>> There are ham reasons for this request, which I made to Wayne 2 years ago. We need a bit more RX/TX bandwidth for the combined JT65/9 modes.
>>>
>>> With WSJT, the upper end of the JT9 audio range is not available on the K3.
>> Hi Ed,
>>
>> FWIW, I regularly copied JT9 signals up to at least 3 kHz; remember that, in those days, JT9 typically started around 2 kHz baseband, and it is possible to open up the RX IF bandwidth wider than that 2.8 kHz roofing filter.
>>
>> And although the worm will hopefully turn back in favor of JT65/JT9 on 160M, those modes have virtually disappeared since FT8 was introduced. Last season, you, W6GJB, and I all worked SM6 on JT65, and WSJT-X decoder logged several dozen EU stations. This year, I hear east coast stations working (or at least calling) EU, but I've decoded ZERO EU using FT8. (For those reading the mail, all three of us are within about 20 miles of each other, 70 miles S of San Francisco. What I'd love to see is JT9 take over on 160M. If I'm not mistaken, it's good about 10 dB deeper into the noise than FT8.
>>
>> And while it's true that any of the slow WSJT modes would benefit from greater IF and audio bandwidth by providing space for more stations, few other rigs offer that.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]