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K4D questions - diversity, HDMI, Ref In

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William Hein-4

K4D questions - diversity, HDMI, Ref In

The K4D looks like an amazing radio! I am interested in diversity rx,
primarily on 50 MHz. A few questions:

(1) Are the two K4D receivers phase coherent (in sync)?

(2) What is the resolution of the HDMI video output?

(3) Will the Ref In work with something like the Bodnar GPS reference clock?

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=234

73
Bill AA7XT

*Sound Business Strategies, LLC*
*[hidden email] <[hidden email]>*

*The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and
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wayne burdick

Re: K4D questions - diversity, HDMI, Ref In

Administrator

> On Nov 21, 2020, at 1:38 PM, William Hein <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The K4D looks like an amazing radio! I am interested in diversity rx,
> primarily on 50 MHz. A few questions:
>
> (1) Are the two K4D receivers phase coherent (in sync)?

Yes.

>
> (2) What is the resolution of the HDMI video output?

Up to 4K.

>
> (3) Will the Ref In work with something like the Bodnar GPS reference clock?

REF IN requires a 10 MHz signal, not a GPS pulse.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

______________________________________________________________
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Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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William Hein-4

Re: K4D questions - diversity, HDMI, Ref In

Hi, Wayne!

I'm very happy about the phase sync between the two rxs, that will be a lot
of fun!

FYI - The Bodnar GPS unit outputs a programmable output including 10 MHz at
various levels:

Low-jitter GPS-locked precision frequency reference
450 Hz to 800 MHz output

This device outputs two synchronised low-jitter reference clocks locked to
GPS signal.

Long term stability of output signal is defined by high accuracy of GPS
Caesium references and theoretically approaches 1x10-12.

Short term signal quality is defined by internal TCXO clock source
providing high-quality, low phase noise clock signal with sub-picosecond
RMS jitter.

Digital PLL allows main output reference frequency to have almost any value
between 450Hz and 800MHz.

The second output frequency depends on the first output due to a common
internal clock, if you need individual flexibility, multiple mini GPS units
may be a better choice. If both outputs have the same frequency their
relative phase shift can be adjusted. This can be used, for example, to
generate two signals with 90° phase shift for use in I/Q mixer.

Both output signals square wave at 3.3V CMOS levels with 50 Ohms
characteristic impedance. Their output drive levels can be adjusted and
outputs can be enabled and disabled independently.

Output power level (measured at 10MHz, fundamental power channel):
+13.3dBm, drive setting 32mA
+12.7dBm, drive setting 24mA
+11.4dBm, drive setting 16mA

*Bill Hein*
*Sound Business Strategies, LLC*
*m 970-628-5120*
*[hidden email] <[hidden email]>*

*The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and
confidential information, including patient information protected by
federal and state privacy laws. It is intended only for the use of the
person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution, or
duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not
the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and
destroy all copies of the original message.*
*Please help reduce paper and ink usage. Print only if necessary.*

On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 2:46 PM Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > On Nov 21, 2020, at 1:38 PM, William Hein <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > The K4D looks like an amazing radio! I am interested in diversity rx,
> > primarily on 50 MHz. A few questions:
> >
> > (1) Are the two K4D receivers phase coherent (in sync)?
>
> Yes.
>
>
> >
> > (2) What is the resolution of the HDMI video output?
>
> Up to 4K.
>
>
> >
> > (3) Will the Ref In work with something like the Bodnar GPS reference
> clock?
>
> REF IN requires a 10 MHz signal, not a GPS pulse.
>
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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wayne burdick

Re: K4D questions - diversity, HDMI, Ref In

Administrator

Then yes, this should work. I had assumed it was producing a 1-Hz square wave.

Wayne

----
elecraft.com

> On Nov 21, 2020, at 3:20 PM, William Hein <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, Wayne!
>
> I'm very happy about the phase sync between the two rxs, that will be a lot of fun!
>
> FYI - The Bodnar GPS unit outputs a programmable output including 10 MHz at various levels:
>
> Low-jitter GPS-locked precision frequency reference
> 450 Hz to 800 MHz output
> This device outputs two synchronised low-jitter reference clocks locked to GPS signal.
> Long term stability of output signal is defined by high accuracy of GPS Caesium references and theoretically approaches 1x10-12.
> Short term signal quality is defined by internal TCXO clock source providing high-quality, low phase noise clock signal with sub-picosecond RMS jitter.
> Digital PLL allows main output reference frequency to have almost any value between 450Hz and 800MHz.
> The second output frequency depends on the first output due to a common internal clock, if you need individual flexibility, multiple mini GPS units may be a better choice. If both outputs have the same frequency their relative phase shift can be adjusted. This can be used, for example, to generate two signals with 90° phase shift for use in I/Q mixer.
> Both output signals square wave at 3.3V CMOS levels with 50 Ohms characteristic impedance. Their output drive levels can be adjusted and outputs can be enabled and disabled independently.
> Output power level (measured at 10MHz, fundamental power channel):
> +13.3dBm, drive setting 32mA
> +12.7dBm, drive setting 24mA
> +11.4dBm, drive setting 16mA
>
> Bill Hein
> Sound Business Strategies, LLC
> m 970-628-5120
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
> The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information, including patient information protected by federal and state privacy laws. It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
>
> Please help reduce paper and ink usage. Print only if necessary.
>
>
>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 2:46 PM Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > On Nov 21, 2020, at 1:38 PM, William Hein <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > The K4D looks like an amazing radio! I am interested in diversity rx,
>> > primarily on 50 MHz. A few questions:
>> >
>> > (1) Are the two K4D receivers phase coherent (in sync)?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > (2) What is the resolution of the HDMI video output?
>>
>> Up to 4K.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > (3) Will the Ref In work with something like the Bodnar GPS reference clock?
>>
>> REF IN requires a 10 MHz signal, not a GPS pulse.
>>
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>

William Hein-4

Re: K4D questions - diversity, HDMI, Ref In

Wayne,

Back to the phase locked receivers in the K4D. Does the K4HD retain this
feature? I am wondering if the Superhet circuitry would mess up the phase
coherence? If so, is there a way to bypass the K4HD Superhet circuits when
not (for example) operating in a HF contest M2 or MM?

73
Bill AA7xT

*Bill Hein*
*Sound Business Strategies, LLC*
*m 970-628-5120*
*[hidden email] <[hidden email]>*

*The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and
confidential information, including patient information protected by
federal and state privacy laws. It is intended only for the use of the
person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution, or
duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not
the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and
destroy all copies of the original message.*
*Please help reduce paper and ink usage. Print only if necessary.*

On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 5:53 PM Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Then yes, this should work. I had assumed it was producing a 1-Hz square
> wave.
>
> Wayne
>
> ----
> elecraft.com
>
> On Nov 21, 2020, at 3:20 PM, William Hein <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, Wayne!
>
> I'm very happy about the phase sync between the two rxs, that will be a
> lot of fun!
>
> FYI - The Bodnar GPS unit outputs a programmable output including 10 MHz
> at various levels:
>
> Low-jitter GPS-locked precision frequency reference
> 450 Hz to 800 MHz output
>
> This device outputs two synchronised low-jitter reference clocks locked to
> GPS signal.
>
> Long term stability of output signal is defined by high accuracy of GPS
> Caesium references and theoretically approaches 1x10-12.
>
> Short term signal quality is defined by internal TCXO clock source
> providing high-quality, low phase noise clock signal with sub-picosecond
> RMS jitter.
>
> Digital PLL allows main output reference frequency to have almost any
> value between 450Hz and 800MHz.
>
> The second output frequency depends on the first output due to a common
> internal clock, if you need individual flexibility, multiple mini GPS units
> may be a better choice. If both outputs have the same frequency their
> relative phase shift can be adjusted. This can be used, for example, to
> generate two signals with 90° phase shift for use in I/Q mixer.
>
> Both output signals square wave at 3.3V CMOS levels with 50 Ohms
> characteristic impedance. Their output drive levels can be adjusted and
> outputs can be enabled and disabled independently.
>
> Output power level (measured at 10MHz, fundamental power channel):
> +13.3dBm, drive setting 32mA
> +12.7dBm, drive setting 24mA
> +11.4dBm, drive setting 16mA
>
> *Bill Hein*
> *Sound Business Strategies, LLC*
> *m 970-628-5120*
> *[hidden email] <[hidden email]>*
>
>
>
> *The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and
> confidential information, including patient information protected by
> federal and state privacy laws. It is intended only for the use of the
> person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution, or
> duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not
> the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and
> destroy all copies of the original message.*
> *Please help reduce paper and ink usage. Print only if necessary.*
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 2:46 PM Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> > On Nov 21, 2020, at 1:38 PM, William Hein <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > The K4D looks like an amazing radio! I am interested in diversity rx,
>> > primarily on 50 MHz. A few questions:
>> >
>> > (1) Are the two K4D receivers phase coherent (in sync)?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > (2) What is the resolution of the HDMI video output?
>>
>> Up to 4K.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > (3) Will the Ref In work with something like the Bodnar GPS reference
>> clock?
>>
>> REF IN requires a 10 MHz signal, not a GPS pulse.
>>
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>

wayne burdick

Re: K4D questions - diversity, HDMI, Ref In

Administrator

> On Dec 2, 2020, at 9:23 AM, William Hein <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Back to the phase locked receivers in the K4D. Does the K4HD retain this feature? I am wondering if the Superhet circuitry would mess up the phase coherence?

The HDR (superhet) module is phase-locked at the IF. At the LO injection it's frequency-locked to a small fraction of a Hz. This results in very slow (mutliple-second) phase precessing when using diversity mode, which in our experience has no impact, given that atmospheric phase changes occur much more rapidly.

> ...is there a way to bypass the K4HD Superhet circuits when not (for example) operating in a HF contest M2 or MM?

Yes. There will be a top-level control for this purpose.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

>
> 73
> Bill AA7xT
>
>
> Bill Hein
> Sound Business Strategies, LLC
> m 970-628-5120
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
> The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information, including patient information protected by federal and state privacy laws. It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
>
> Please help reduce paper and ink usage. Print only if necessary.
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 5:53 PM Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Then yes, this should work. I had assumed it was producing a 1-Hz square wave.
>
> Wayne
>
> ----
> elecraft.com
>
>> On Nov 21, 2020, at 3:20 PM, William Hein <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi, Wayne!
>>
>> I'm very happy about the phase sync between the two rxs, that will be a lot of fun!
>>
>> FYI - The Bodnar GPS unit outputs a programmable output including 10 MHz at various levels:
>>
>> Low-jitter GPS-locked precision frequency reference
>> 450 Hz to 800 MHz output
>> This device outputs two synchronised low-jitter reference clocks locked to GPS signal.
>> Long term stability of output signal is defined by high accuracy of GPS Caesium references and theoretically approaches 1x10-12.
>> Short term signal quality is defined by internal TCXO clock source providing high-quality, low phase noise clock signal with sub-picosecond RMS jitter.
>> Digital PLL allows main output reference frequency to have almost any value between 450Hz and 800MHz.
>> The second output frequency depends on the first output due to a common internal clock, if you need individual flexibility, multiple mini GPS units may be a better choice. If both outputs have the same frequency their relative phase shift can be adjusted. This can be used, for example, to generate two signals with 90° phase shift for use in I/Q mixer.
>> Both output signals square wave at 3.3V CMOS levels with 50 Ohms characteristic impedance. Their output drive levels can be adjusted and outputs can be enabled and disabled independently.
>> Output power level (measured at 10MHz, fundamental power channel):
>> +13.3dBm, drive setting 32mA
>> +12.7dBm, drive setting 24mA
>> +11.4dBm, drive setting 16mA
>>
>> Bill Hein
>> Sound Business Strategies, LLC
>> m 970-628-5120
>> [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>> The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information, including patient information protected by federal and state privacy laws. It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
>>
>> Please help reduce paper and ink usage. Print only if necessary.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 2:46 PM Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > On Nov 21, 2020, at 1:38 PM, William Hein <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > The K4D looks like an amazing radio! I am interested in diversity rx,
>> > primarily on 50 MHz. A few questions:
>> >
>> > (1) Are the two K4D receivers phase coherent (in sync)?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > (2) What is the resolution of the HDMI video output?
>>
>> Up to 4K.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > (3) Will the Ref In work with something like the Bodnar GPS reference clock?
>>
>> REF IN requires a 10 MHz signal, not a GPS pulse.
>>
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>

William Hein-4

Re: K4D questions - diversity, HDMI, Ref In

Thanks again, Wayne.

I see a K4HD in my future...

73
Bill AA7XT

*Bill Hein*
*Sound Business Strategies, LLC*
*m 970-628-5120*
*[hidden email] <[hidden email]>*

*The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and
confidential information, including patient information protected by
federal and state privacy laws. It is intended only for the use of the
person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution, or
duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not
the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and
destroy all copies of the original message.*
*Please help reduce paper and ink usage. Print only if necessary.*

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 10:47 AM Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > On Dec 2, 2020, at 9:23 AM, William Hein <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Back to the phase locked receivers in the K4D. Does the K4HD retain this
> feature? I am wondering if the Superhet circuitry would mess up the phase
> coherence?
>
>
> The HDR (superhet) module is phase-locked at the IF. At the LO injection
> it's frequency-locked to a small fraction of a Hz. This results in very
> slow (mutliple-second) phase precessing when using diversity mode, which in
> our experience has no impact, given that atmospheric phase changes occur
> much more rapidly.
>
>
> > ...is there a way to bypass the K4HD Superhet circuits when not (for
> example) operating in a HF contest M2 or MM?
>
> Yes. There will be a top-level control for this purpose.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> >
> > 73
> > Bill AA7xT
> >
> >
> > Bill Hein
> > Sound Business Strategies, LLC
> > m 970-628-5120
> > [hidden email]
> >
> >
> >
> > The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged
> and confidential information, including patient information protected by
> federal and state privacy laws. It is intended only for the use of the
> person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution, or
> duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not
> the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and
> destroy all copies of the original message.
> >
> > Please help reduce paper and ink usage. Print only if necessary.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 5:53 PM Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Then yes, this should work. I had assumed it was producing a 1-Hz square
> wave.
> >
> > Wayne
> >
> > ----
> > elecraft.com
> >
> >> On Nov 21, 2020, at 3:20 PM, William Hein <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi, Wayne!
> >>
> >> I'm very happy about the phase sync between the two rxs, that will be a
> lot of fun!
> >>
> >> FYI - The Bodnar GPS unit outputs a programmable output including 10
> MHz at various levels:
> >>
> >> Low-jitter GPS-locked precision frequency reference
> >> 450 Hz to 800 MHz output
> >> This device outputs two synchronised low-jitter reference clocks locked
> to GPS signal.
> >> Long term stability of output signal is defined by high accuracy of GPS
> Caesium references and theoretically approaches 1x10-12.
> >> Short term signal quality is defined by internal TCXO clock source
> providing high-quality, low phase noise clock signal with sub-picosecond
> RMS jitter.
> >> Digital PLL allows main output reference frequency to have almost any
> value between 450Hz and 800MHz.
> >> The second output frequency depends on the first output due to a common
> internal clock, if you need individual flexibility, multiple mini GPS units
> may be a better choice. If both outputs have the same frequency their
> relative phase shift can be adjusted. This can be used, for example, to
> generate two signals with 90° phase shift for use in I/Q mixer.
> >> Both output signals square wave at 3.3V CMOS levels with 50 Ohms
> characteristic impedance. Their output drive levels can be adjusted and
> outputs can be enabled and disabled independently.
> >> Output power level (measured at 10MHz, fundamental power channel):
> >> +13.3dBm, drive setting 32mA
> >> +12.7dBm, drive setting 24mA
> >> +11.4dBm, drive setting 16mA
> >>
> >> Bill Hein
> >> Sound Business Strategies, LLC
> >> m 970-628-5120
> >> [hidden email]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged
> and confidential information, including patient information protected by
> federal and state privacy laws. It is intended only for the use of the
> person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution, or
> duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not
> the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and
> destroy all copies of the original message.
> >>
> >> Please help reduce paper and ink usage. Print only if necessary.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 2:46 PM Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Nov 21, 2020, at 1:38 PM, William Hein <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > The K4D looks like an amazing radio! I am interested in diversity rx,
> >> > primarily on 50 MHz. A few questions:
> >> >
> >> > (1) Are the two K4D receivers phase coherent (in sync)?
> >>
> >> Yes.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > (2) What is the resolution of the HDMI video output?
> >>
> >> Up to 4K.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > (3) Will the Ref In work with something like the Bodnar GPS reference
> clock?
> >>
> >> REF IN requires a 10 MHz signal, not a GPS pulse.
> >>
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Wayne
> >> N6KR
> >>
>
>