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K4HD switchable?

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Jim Miller

K4HD switchable?

Can the superhet option be switched in/out independently for each of the K4D receivers?

For example it might be nice to run a full band skimmer on one receiver (so no superhet) while still needing the strong signal performance on another receiver (with superhet).

Jim ab3cv

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wayne burdick

Re: K4HD switchable?

Administrator

> On May 23, 2019, at 8:24 AM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Can the superhet option be switched in/out independently for each of the K4D receivers?

In theory.

>
> For example it might be nice to run a full band skimmer on one receiver (so no superhet) while still needing the strong signal performance on another receiver (with superhet).

Even when the superhet module is in use, the panadapter(s) will still be in direct-sampling mode. The resulting I/Q stream could be used for this purpose.

Wayne
N6KR

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Jim Miller

Re: K4HD switchable?

Nice!

Thanks!

Jim ab3cv

On May 23, 2019, at 12:17 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On May 23, 2019, at 8:24 AM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Can the superhet option be switched in/out independently for each of the K4D receivers?

In theory.

>
> For example it might be nice to run a full band skimmer on one receiver (so no superhet) while still needing the strong signal performance on another receiver (with superhet).

Even when the superhet module is in use, the panadapter(s) will still be in direct-sampling mode. The resulting I/Q stream could be used for this purpose.

Wayne
N6KR

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hbjr

K144XV issues in K3S

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Hey Folks...

I have noticed 2 unusual issues with my recently installed K144XV. I bought it used from a list member and installed it a few months ago. It seems to work ok but after some extended use (which recently begun) it is does 2 things: after it has been in use (even just monitoring) for local FM repeater work, the S-Meter on the K3S starts to read lower and lower (by as much as 3 S-Units) for the same repeater signal; and 2 - the audio becomes a little distorted on stronger signals (the ATT makes no difference in the audio distortion).

The audio happens almost immediately after turning up the rig, but the signal "weakening" takes 10 to 15 minutes of the transverter being active (active band on K3S). It will occur faster it is being used (transmitting). I have it set to very low power (display reads -6db), and it will still show "weakening" on the S-Meter during reception after using it. I noticed it fist doing some longer packet transmissions, but it will also happen after a period of time of just listening.

The audio distortion is not as noticeable on signals below S-9, but listening in headphones will reveal the distortion is still there.

The K3S currently has the standard TXCO installed and no reference lock on the K144XV. The 13khz filter is installed in the main receiver. I have no external reference board installed in the K3S. I have ordered the higher stability TXCO for the K3S and the K144XV reference lock, but have not received them yet from Elecraft.

The audio on HF is OK and the S-Meter does not seem to "weaken" in a similar fashion when monitoring strong net signals over time.

Any ideas?

Hank
K4HYJ
K3S, P3, KX3

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ANDY DURBIN

K4HD switchable?

In reply to this post by Jim Miller

"> Can the superhet option be switched in/out independently for each of the K4D receivers?

In theory."

Why is this theoretical? My interest in the question is for use with WSJT-X modes where I currently use a 4 kHz - 5 kHz RX bandwidth. My understanding of the superhet spec is that it would be limited to about 2.8 kHz bandwidth.

What is the max bandwidth of the superhet module and, if limited to 2.8 kHz, can it be switch out of circuit?

Thanks and 73,
Andy k3wyc

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Nr4c

Re: K144XV issues in K3S

In reply to this post by hbjr

Frequency drift comes to mind.

The HF ATU probably won’t do anything for VHF.

Let the radio warm up for half an hour before doing anything with VHF.

Remember 1PPM at VHF is 144 Hertz.

You need the high def oscillator and maybe the Ref In.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On May 23, 2019, at 1:05 PM, Hank <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Hey Folks...
>
> I have noticed 2 unusual issues with my recently installed K144XV. I bought it used from a list member and installed it a few months ago. It seems to work ok but after some extended use (which recently begun) it is does 2 things: after it has been in use (even just monitoring) for local FM repeater work, the S-Meter on the K3S starts to read lower and lower (by as much as 3 S-Units) for the same repeater signal; and 2 - the audio becomes a little distorted on stronger signals (the ATT makes no difference in the audio distortion).
>
> The audio happens almost immediately after turning up the rig, but the signal "weakening" takes 10 to 15 minutes of the transverter being active (active band on K3S). It will occur faster it is being used (transmitting). I have it set to very low power (display reads -6db), and it will still show "weakening" on the S-Meter during reception after using it. I noticed it fist doing some longer packet transmissions, but it will also happen after a period of time of just listening.
>
> The audio distortion is not as noticeable on signals below S-9, but listening in headphones will reveal the distortion is still there.
>
>
> The K3S currently has the standard TXCO installed and no reference lock on the K144XV. The 13khz filter is installed in the main receiver. I have no external reference board installed in the K3S. I have ordered the higher stability TXCO for the K3S and the K144XV reference lock, but have not received them yet from Elecraft.
>
>
> The audio on HF is OK and the S-Meter does not seem to "weaken" in a similar fashion when monitoring strong net signals over time.
>
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Hank
> K4HYJ
> K3S, P3, KX3
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

hbjr

Re: K144XV issues in K3S

Not the ATU, the ATT (attenuation function).

----- Original Message -----
From: Nr4c ([hidden email])
Date: 05/23/19 13:34
To: Hank ([hidden email])
Cc: Hank Blackwood ([hidden email]), Elecraft Reflector ([hidden email])
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K144XV issues in K3S

Frequency drift comes to mind.

The HF ATU probably won’t do anything for VHF.

Let the radio warm up for half an hour before doing anything with VHF.

Remember 1PPM at VHF is 144 Hertz.

You need the high def oscillator and maybe the Ref In.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

hdv

Re: K144XV issues in K3S

In reply to this post by Nr4c

Just some questions to understand the problem better.Is the audio issue only happening in FM or also in other modes?Try FM on HF with someone close and see if if it is really caused by the K144Does the K144 output also drops or is that stable.73 HenkPA0CVerzonden vanaf mijn Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.
-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------Van: Nr4c <[hidden email]> Datum: 23-05-19 19:32 (GMT+01:00) Aan: Hank <[hidden email]> Cc: Hank Blackwood <[hidden email]>, Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] K144XV issues in K3S Frequency drift comes to mind. The HF ATU probably won’t do anything for VHF. Let the radio warm up for half an hour before doing anything with VHF.Remember 1PPM at VHF is 144 Hertz. You need the high def oscillator and maybe the Ref In. Sent from my iPhone...nr4c. bill> On May 23, 2019, at 1:05 PM, Hank <[hidden email]> wrote:> > > Hey Folks... > > I have noticed 2 unusual issues with my recently installed K144XV. I bought it used from a list member and installed it a few months ago. It seems to work ok but after some extended use (which recently begun) it is does 2 things: after it has been in use (even just monitoring) for local FM repeater work, the S-Meter on the K3S starts to read lower and lower (by as much as 3 S-Units) for the same repeater signal; and 2 - the audio becomes a little distorted on stronger signals (the ATT makes no difference in the audio distortion).> > The audio happens almost immediately after turning up the rig, but the signal "weakening" takes 10 to 15 minutes of the transverter being active (active band on K3S). It will occur faster it is being used (transmitting). I have it set to very low power (display reads -6db), and it will still show "weakening" on the S-Meter during reception after using it. I noticed it fist doing some longer packet transmissions, but it will also happen after a period of time of just listening.> > The audio distortion is not as noticeable on signals below S-9, but listening in headphones will reveal the distortion is still there.> > > The K3S currently has the standard TXCO installed and no reference lock on the K144XV. The 13khz filter is installed in the main receiver. I have no external reference board installed in the K3S. I have ordered the higher stability TXCO for the K3S and the K144XV reference lock, but have not received them yet from Elecraft. > > > The audio on HF is OK and the S-Meter does not seem to "weaken" in a similar fashion when monitoring strong net signals over time. > > > Any ideas?> > Hank> K4HYJ> K3S, P3, KX3> > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________> Elecraft mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:[hidden email]> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html______________________________________________________________Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email] list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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wayne burdick

Re: K4HD switchable?

Administrator

In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN

> "> Can the superhet option be switched in/out independently for each of the K4D receivers?
>
> In theory."
>
> Why is this theoretical?

Figure of speech. The hardware will do this, but we haven’t provided a way to do it yet in software. Easy enough.

> My understanding of the superhet spec is that it would be limited to about 2.8 kHz bandwidth.

Spec is being updated. There will be a spare (3rd) filter slot for each receiver that can accommodate a wider bandwidth filter, such as 6 or 12.5 kHz. Or a narrower one if that better fits your needs.

Wayne
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ANDY DURBIN

Re: K4HD switchable?

Thanks Wayne.

73,
Andy, k3wyc

________________________________
From: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2019 10:55 AM
To: Andy Durbin
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4HD switchable?

> "> Can the superhet option be switched in/out independently for each of the K4D receivers?
>
> In theory."
>
> Why is this theoretical?

Figure of speech. The hardware will do this, but we haven’t provided a way to do it yet in software. Easy enough.

> My understanding of the superhet spec is that it would be limited to about 2.8 kHz bandwidth.

Spec is being updated. There will be a spare (3rd) filter slot for each receiver that can accommodate a wider bandwidth filter, such as 6 or 12.5 kHz. Or a narrower one if that better fits your needs.

Wayne
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Nr4c

Re: K144XV issues in K3S

In reply to this post by hbjr

Oops. My bad!

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On May 23, 2019, at 1:36 PM, Hank <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Not the ATU, the ATT (attenuation function).
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nr4c ([hidden email])
> Date: 05/23/19 13:34
> To: Hank ([hidden email])
> Cc: Hank Blackwood ([hidden email]), Elecraft Reflector ([hidden email])
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K144XV issues in K3S
>
> Frequency drift comes to mind.
>
> The HF ATU probably won’t do anything for VHF.
>
> Let the radio warm up for half an hour before doing anything with VHF.
>
> Remember 1PPM at VHF is 144 Hertz.
>
> You need the high def oscillator and maybe the Ref In.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
>
>
>> On May 23, 2019, at 1:05 PM, Hank <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hey Folks...
>>
>> I have noticed 2 unusual issues with my recently installed K144XV. I bought it used from a list member and installed it a few months ago. It seems to work ok but after some extended use (which recently begun) it is does 2 things: after it has been in use (even just monitoring) for local FM repeater work, the S-Meter on the K3S starts to read lower and lower (by as much as 3 S-Units) for the same repeater signal; and 2 - the audio becomes a little distorted on stronger signals (the ATT makes no difference in the audio distortion).
>>
>> The audio happens almost immediately after turning up the rig, but the signal "weakening" takes 10 to 15 minutes of the transverter being active (active band on K3S). It will occur faster it is being used (transmitting). I have it set to very low power (display reads -6db), and it will still show "weakening" on the S-Meter during reception after using it. I noticed it fist doing some longer packet transmissions, but it will also happen after a period of time of just listening.
>>
>> The audio distortion is not as noticeable on signals below S-9, but listening in headphones will reveal the distortion is still there.
>>
>>
>> The K3S currently has the standard TXCO installed and no reference lock on the K144XV. The 13khz filter is installed in the main receiver. I have no external reference board installed in the K3S. I have ordered the higher stability TXCO for the K3S and the K144XV reference lock, but have not received them yet from Elecraft.
>>
>>
>> The audio on HF is OK and the S-Meter does not seem to "weaken" in a similar fashion when monitoring strong net signals over time.
>>
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Hank
>> K4HYJ
>> K3S, P3, KX3
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

hbjr

Re: K144XV issues in K3S - audio distortion and fading signals over time

In reply to this post by hdv

OK...here are some test results:

- Neither problem occurs on 10m FM

- The output power does also diminish on 2 meters - roughly follows the reception "weakening". The S-Meter went from 60 over S9 to S8 over the period of 45 minutes and the output power (measured by a Bird WM) fell from 12 watts to below 5.
- The audio distorts almost immediately
- no testing on 2 meter AM or SSB yet

I did notice that the "weakening" occurs faster with lots of TX use. So maybe it is heat related?? The problem is that it doesn't require much TX time at all - very little. I seem to recall running the module at only a few watts out (like 2), and I could rag chew on FM for 45 minutes and the output power was never attenuated by protection circuits. Running the module now at -9.0db pwr setting causes the effect to happen within just a few minutes.

If I turn the K3S off and let it sit for 30 minutes, and try the transverter again, it works fine. BUT after the rig sits on for 20 - 30 mins (NO TX), the received FM signal starts to "weaken". Distortion starts almost immediately.

The K144XV is on the latest code release and I double-checked the 144 and 146 offsets as printed on the module to be sure they matched the menu settings - all good.

What gives?? I know the transverter has got to be more robust than that!!!

Hank
K4HYJ
K3S, P3, KX3

----- Original Message -----
From: hdv ([hidden email])
Date: 05/23/19 13:47
To: Hank ([hidden email])
Cc: Elecraft Reflector ([hidden email])
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K144XV issues in K3S

Just some questions to understand the problem better.
Is the audio issue only happening in FM or also in other modes?
Try FM on HF with someone close and see if if it is really caused by the K144

Does the K144 output also drops or is that stable.

73 Henk
PA0C

Verzonden vanaf mijn Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.

-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------
Van: Nr4c <[hidden email]>
Datum: 23-05-19 19:32 (GMT+01:00)
Aan: Hank <[hidden email]>
Cc: Hank Blackwood <[hidden email]>, Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] K144XV issues in K3S

Frequency drift comes to mind.

The HF ATU probably won't do anything for VHF.

Let the radio warm up for half an hour before doing anything with VHF.

Remember 1PPM at VHF is 144 Hertz.

You need the high def oscillator and maybe the Ref In.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

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Grant Youngman-2

Re: K144XV issues in K3S - audio distortion and fading signals over time

Have you double checked all of the connections in and out of the 2M module? I’ve found it’s important to remove the transverter’s top cover to do this — because it is possible when pushing cables into the female connectors blind, even being careful, to actually bend back the business end of the sockets. I don’t remember off hand which two it is, but I’ve had enough problems with them that I now support them from the rear with a screwdriver blade when seating cables to ensure a solid connection.

Otherwise, it sounds offhand like there’s something bad on the transverter board …

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

> On May 24, 2019, at 1:28 PM, Hank <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> OK...here are some test results:
>
> - Neither problem occurs on 10m FM
>
> - The output power does also diminish on 2 meters - roughly follows the reception "weakening". The S-Meter went from 60 over S9 to S8 over the period of 45 minutes and the output power (measured by a Bird WM) fell from 12 watts to below 5.
> - The audio distorts almost immediately
> - no testing on 2 meter AM or SSB yet
>

hdv

Re: K144XV issues in K3S - audio distortion and fading signals over time

In reply to this post by hbjr

So the problem is clearly in the transvertor.Given the fact that both rx and tx follow roughly the same pattern a common cause seems to be logical.That could be voltage or oscillator.Check if the voltage remains constant on both rx and tx circuits. Also check the oscillator signal and level with a scoop or spectrum analyser.Most probably it is heat related. Given the fact that audio distortion starts rather quickly the oscillator would be my prime suspect.73 HenkPA0CVerzonden vanaf mijn Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.
-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------Van: Hank <[hidden email]> Datum: 24-05-19 19:28 (GMT+01:00) Aan: hdv <[hidden email]> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Onderwerp: Re[2]: [Elecraft] K144XV issues in K3S - audio distortion and fading signals over time
OK...here are some test results:

- Neither problem occurs on 10m FM

- The output power does also diminish on 2 meters - roughly follows the reception "weakening". The S-Meter went from 60 over S9 to S8 over the period of 45 minutes and the output power (measured by a Bird WM) fell from 12 watts to below 5.
- The audio distorts almost immediately
- no testing on 2 meter AM or SSB yet

I did notice that the "weakening" occurs faster with lots of TX use. So maybe it is heat related?? The problem is that it doesn't require much TX time at all - very little. I seem to recall running the module at only a few watts out (like 2), and I could rag chew on FM for 45 minutes and the output power was never attenuated by protection circuits. Running the module now at -9.0db pwr setting causes the effect to happen within just a few minutes.

If I turn the K3S off and let it sit for 30 minutes, and try the transverter again, it works fine. BUT after the rig sits on for 20 - 30 mins (NO TX), the received FM signal starts to "weaken". Distortion starts almost immediately.

The K144XV is on the latest code release and I double-checked the 144 and 146 offsets as printed on the module to be sure they matched the menu settings - all good.

What gives?? I know the transverter has got to be more robust than that!!!

Hank
K4HYJ
K3S, P3, KX3

----- Original Message -----
From: hdv ([hidden email])Date: 05/23/19 13:47To: Hank ([hidden email])Cc: Elecraft Reflector ([hidden email])Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K144XV issues in K3S

Just some questions to understand the problem better.
Is the audio issue only happening in FM or also in other modes?
Try FM on HF with someone close and see if if it is really caused by the K144

Does the K144 output also drops or is that stable.

73 Henk
PA0C

Verzonden vanaf mijn Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.

-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------
Van: Nr4c <[hidden email]>
Datum: 23-05-19 19:32 (GMT+01:00)
Aan: Hank <[hidden email]>
Cc: Hank Blackwood <[hidden email]>, Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] K144XV issues in K3S

Frequency drift comes to mind.The HF ATU probably won't do anything for VHF.Let the radio warm up for half an hour before doing anything with VHF.Remember 1PPM at VHF is 144 Hertz.You need the high def oscillator and maybe the Ref In.Sent from my iPhone...nr4c. bill> On May 23, 2019, at 1:05 PM, Hank <[hidden email]> wrote:>>> Hey Folks... >> I have noticed 2 unusual issues with my recently installed K144XV. I bought it used from a list member and installed it a few months ago. It seems to work ok but after some extended use (which recently begun) it is does 2 things: after it has been in use (even just monitoring) for local FM repeater work, the S-Meter on the K3S starts to read lower and lower (by as much as 3 S-Units) for the same repeater signal; and 2 - the audio becomes a little distorted on stronger signals (the ATT makes no difference in the audio distortion).>> The audio happens almost immediately after turning up the rig, but the signal "weakening" takes 10 to 15 minutes of the transverter being active (active band on K3S). It will occur faster it is being used (transmitting). I have it set to very low power (display reads -6db), and it will still show "weakening" on the S-Meter during reception after using it. I noticed it fist doing some longer packet transmissions, but it will also happen after a period of time of just listening.>> The audio distortion is not as noticeable on signals below S-9, but listening in headphones will reveal the distortion is still there.>>> The K3S currently has the standard TXCO installed and no reference lock on the K144XV. The 13khz filter is installed in the main receiver. I have no external reference board installed in the K3S. I have ordered the higher stability TXCO for the K3S and the K144XV reference lock, but have not received them yet from Elecraft.>>> The audio on HF is OK and the S-Meter does not seem to "weaken" in a similar fashion when monitoring strong net signals over time.>>> Any ideas?>> Hank> K4HYJ> K3S, P3, KX3>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________> Elecraft mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:[hidden email]>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html______________________________________________________________Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email] list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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