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K5P and VP8STI

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w7aqk

K5P and VP8STI

It will be interesting to find out more about the antennas being used by
these two DXpeditions. Both, as I understand it, are using Elecraft gear,
K3's and KPA500's.

K5P has been rather weak but copyable on most bands, at least here in AZ. I
had expected to hear them a bit more easily, since I usually get good
signals from VK/ZL on most all bands. I'm still missing K5P on 10 meters
(as far as my antenna capabilities go), but that could just be timing and
the usual uncertainty about 10 meters generally.

VP8STI has been relatively weak on most bands as well, but they are twice as
far away. Band conditions and timing could be a big part of that as well.
The exception has been 30 meters! They have almost been LOUD here on 30
meters, and much stronger than on 40 or 20 meters. I've worked them on 30
(actually I thought I had worked them earlier, but that's a long story!),
but am having difficulty on other bands. The biggest problem has been all
the confusion caused by others, plus the fact that they are being inundated
because they are such a rare location. I think they may be using
directional antennas on some bands, and AZ may not be where they are
pointing much of the time.

This 30 meter thing may not be as much of an anomaly as one might think at
first blush. 30 meters is a very good band, but not utilized all that much.
It shares many of the advantages of both 40 and 20--it's open much of the
time, and high enough to enhance longer distance communications. I have a
friend in the U.K. who has very nice antennas on both 30 and 20 meters.
More often than not, and again it may be timing, I hear him better on 30
meters!!!!

The "confusion" surrounding the VP8 is as bad as I've ever heard it. DX
cops and name callers, tuner-uppers, people who don't know what "up" means,
etc. This is what tends to kill the fun I would have otherwise trying to
work DX now and then. Sometimes I wish I could take a hammer to some folk's
radios! It only takes a hand full of idiots to make life miserable, but in
this case I think we have more than a hand full! The first time I thought I
had worked the VP8 on 30 meters I know he came back to me because he had 90%
of my call correct. I repeated it, and my report, but after that all I
heard was a bunch of QRM from people calling on his freq. rather than split
as requested.

Anyway, there seem to be some very good ops on both operations, so I suspect
they will do very well overall. Somehow I think I would rather be one of
the ops on Palmyra than on Sandwich, give the difference in weather
conditions! Hi. However, the VP8 guys will probably have a much more
interesting story to tell.

Dave W7AQK

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Wes (N7WS)

Re: K5P and VP8STI

As a fellow Tucsonan here are my observations.

I believe that the K5P guys are using tunable dummy load....sorry...SteppIR
verticals on all bands except 160. (If I'm wrong about this, I'm sure I will be
corrected.) I too believe that their signals have generally been underwhelming
for the path. Nevertheless, I have worked them on 18 slots, including all bands
(except for 60 meters) on CW. My antennas are modest (see QRZ) and often
non-resonant. For 160 thru 30, an inverted vee, apex at 45', ends at 6' on 160,
which as everyone "knows" can't possibly work DX. I use a K3S, KPA500 and KAT500.

VP8 is another story. I've worked them on 20 CW, 20 SSB, 15 SSB, and several
times on 15 RTTY because they answered me once as N6WS, 20 minutes later as
N2WS, and another half hour as NW7S. I just keep working them 'till I'm on
Clublog. Likewise with two QSOs on 17 SSB. They should have been easily
workable on 40, but as you say the miserable operators and jammers that come out
of the woodwork take the fun out of this activity. For the life of me I can't
understand why when the op says, "Who is the W6" , W8s answer. (Not picking on
W8s but one of your number was one of the most egregious I heard.)

As to their antennas, I don't have any special insight other than to know that
they do have some directional antennas on some bands and the penguins keep
messing up their ground radials. Their operating conditions have been
miserable. I actually heard this exchange. One of the Phoenix guys closes his
QSO with, "Keep warm down there" to which the VP8 op replies, "You have to get
warm before you can keep warm."

Wes N7WS

On 1/23/2016 6:52 AM, w7aqk wrote:

> It will be interesting to find out more about the antennas being used by these
> two DXpeditions. Both, as I understand it, are using Elecraft gear, K3's and
> KPA500's.
>
> K5P has been rather weak but copyable on most bands, at least here in AZ. I
> had expected to hear them a bit more easily, since I usually get good signals
> from VK/ZL on most all bands. I'm still missing K5P on 10 meters (as far as
> my antenna capabilities go), but that could just be timing and the usual
> uncertainty about 10 meters generally.
>
> VP8STI has been relatively weak on most bands as well, but they are twice as
> far away. Band conditions and timing could be a big part of that as well. The
> exception has been 30 meters! They have almost been LOUD here on 30 meters,
> and much stronger than on 40 or 20 meters. I've worked them on 30 (actually I
> thought I had worked them earlier, but that's a long story!), but am having
> difficulty on other bands. The biggest problem has been all the confusion
> caused by others, plus the fact that they are being inundated because they are
> such a rare location. I think they may be using directional antennas on some
> bands, and AZ may not be where they are pointing much of the time.
>
> This 30 meter thing may not be as much of an anomaly as one might think at
> first blush. 30 meters is a very good band, but not utilized all that much.
> It shares many of the advantages of both 40 and 20--it's open much of the
> time, and high enough to enhance longer distance communications. I have a
> friend in the U.K. who has very nice antennas on both 30 and 20 meters. More
> often than not, and again it may be timing, I hear him better on 30 meters!!!!
>
> The "confusion" surrounding the VP8 is as bad as I've ever heard it. DX cops
> and name callers, tuner-uppers, people who don't know what "up" means, etc.
> This is what tends to kill the fun I would have otherwise trying to work DX
> now and then. Sometimes I wish I could take a hammer to some folk's radios!
> It only takes a hand full of idiots to make life miserable, but in this case I
> think we have more than a hand full! The first time I thought I had worked
> the VP8 on 30 meters I know he came back to me because he had 90% of my call
> correct. I repeated it, and my report, but after that all I heard was a bunch
> of QRM from people calling on his freq. rather than split as requested.
>
> Anyway, there seem to be some very good ops on both operations, so I suspect
> they will do very well overall. Somehow I think I would rather be one of the
> ops on Palmyra than on Sandwich, give the difference in weather conditions!
> Hi. However, the VP8 guys will probably have a much more interesting story to
> tell.
>
> Dave W7AQK
>

kd7gc

RE: K5P and VP8STI

In reply to this post by w7aqk

My good friend Stan, KE5EE, currently has 22 slots on the K5P. On Thursday he put up temporary inverted V’s for both 60 and 160. Within 12 hours, he had worked K5P on 60 SSB and CW, as well as on 160 CW. He doesn’t have as many slots with the VP8, but he hasn’t really been chasing them. He is having fantastic success with his 3 element 80 meter M Square, as well as the first of his DB42’s, this one at 120 feet. The bottom DB42 will be going up shortly at 72 feet. We are both looking forward to seeing how well the stacked DB42’s work. The first of his 200 foot rotating towers will be going up shortly with a stack of 6 three element SteppIrs, mostly for 17 meters thru 10 meters. The rotating base has been fully installed, and the 8 foot by 8 foot building near the base of the tower is up and filled with all of the control boards for the 6 stack. K7NV and K1TO will be going to Molino to build the tower, and SteppIr’s techs and engineers, led by K7MX, will be going there to assemble the yagis and tune them so that they can be installed on the tower. We both are anxious to see how the 6 stack will perform. The next 200 foot rotating tower will go up 2 or 3 months after the SteppIr tower. It will have 6 over 6 over 6 over 6 on 20, and 3 over 3 over 3 over 3 on 40. The next step in the project will be the 4 square on 160 with several receive arrays. The rest of the towers and antennas will follow, including a stacked pair of 80’s and a converted 2 element Optibeam 80 meter yagi for 60 meters. So far, so good. The only failure so far has been the OR2800 rotator turning the 3 element 80. High winds went thru one night and totally destroyed the rotator. Kurt will be bringing a new prop pitch to replace the chewed-up OR2800. I am really looking forward to getting the remote capability installed. I told Stan that I just might take down my whole station and just use his via remote, HiHi.

Alan - N7MIT

Jim Brown-10

Re: K5P and VP8STI

In reply to this post by Wes (N7WS)

Something can be learned from their websites. There have also been
posts to the NCDXC reflector from K6MM, one of three members on that
trip. Wes is correct about K5P antennas, except that they have a Battle
Creek special for 80 and 160M. Photos of the SteppIRs suggest an
inadequate radial system, which would account for weak signals. Yes,
there's water nearby, but that only helps first reflections. They're in
my log for one Q on all bands except 6M, and at least 1 Q for CW, SSB,
and RTTY. And I worked them QRP on 20 SSB and 160 CW. Trying to stay out
of the way for stations needing them more than me, I stop once I get
there. I believe that one reason for their antenna choices is that they
were VERY limited by what they could fit onto an aircraft that could
land on the island. Not only that, but at the last minute, three guys
had to stay at the airport because they had to use an even smaller
aircraft.

VP8STI is mostly Force 12 C3s for 20/15/10, similar Force 12 for 17/12.
2-tower phased vertical array for 80 and 160. Don't remember what for 30
and 40. Study the "plans" page on their website for detailed drawings.
They're in my log on 15,17, 20, 30, 40, and 80, and one QSO each mode.
Haven't heard them on 10, 12, or 160. I'm still trying for a QRP QSO.

73, Jim K9YC

On Sat,1/23/2016 7:45 AM, Wes (N7WS) wrote:

> As a fellow Tucsonan here are my observations.
>
> I believe that the K5P guys are using tunable dummy
> load....sorry...SteppIR verticals on all bands except 160. (If I'm
> wrong about this, I'm sure I will be corrected.) I too believe that
> their signals have generally been underwhelming for the path.
> Nevertheless, I have worked them on 18 slots, including all bands
> (except for 60 meters) on CW. My antennas are modest (see QRZ) and
> often non-resonant. For 160 thru 30, an inverted vee, apex at 45',
> ends at 6' on 160, which as everyone "knows" can't possibly work DX.
> I use a K3S, KPA500 and KAT500.
>
> VP8 is another story. I've worked them on 20 CW, 20 SSB, 15 SSB,

Doug Turnbull

Re: K5P and VP8STI

Dear OMs,
I have as part of my antenna system a BigIR Vertical but perhaps this is
part of the problem. With stepper motors it would not be wise to put this
antenna too close to the water line. For 80M it would not be too good
because of the loading coil.

Standard verticals might have been a better bet in this application.

In Europe K5P is considered a phantom station but of course their day
and our night occur at the same times so this hurts and propagation is not
great. These are good operators and maybe like all DXpeditions some are
still learning but boy did they pay for the privilege. So my fedora is
tipped to them and I rather dislike some of the cheap criticisms of them
found on the reflectors. People who do not contribute have little
justification in making such comments. Ah but we do it for our sports
teams all the time - they get paid. These guys pay for the privilege of
their own K-rations.

VP8STI is an altogether easier reach from the EU and especially from EI
where we can put the EU to our back and NA to our side on a southerly route.

Thanks to both K5P and VP8STI.

73 Doug EI2CN

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: 23 January 2016 19:05
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K5P and VP8STI

Something can be learned from their websites. There have also been
posts to the NCDXC reflector from K6MM, one of three members on that
trip. Wes is correct about K5P antennas, except that they have a Battle
Creek special for 80 and 160M. Photos of the SteppIRs suggest an
inadequate radial system, which would account for weak signals. Yes,
there's water nearby, but that only helps first reflections. They're in
my log for one Q on all bands except 6M, and at least 1 Q for CW, SSB,
and RTTY. And I worked them QRP on 20 SSB and 160 CW. Trying to stay out
of the way for stations needing them more than me, I stop once I get
there. I believe that one reason for their antenna choices is that they
were VERY limited by what they could fit onto an aircraft that could
land on the island. Not only that, but at the last minute, three guys
had to stay at the airport because they had to use an even smaller
aircraft.

VP8STI is mostly Force 12 C3s for 20/15/10, similar Force 12 for 17/12.
2-tower phased vertical array for 80 and 160. Don't remember what for 30
and 40. Study the "plans" page on their website for detailed drawings.
They're in my log on 15,17, 20, 30, 40, and 80, and one QSO each mode.
Haven't heard them on 10, 12, or 160. I'm still trying for a QRP QSO.

73, Jim K9YC

On Sat,1/23/2016 7:45 AM, Wes (N7WS) wrote:

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______________________________________________________________
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Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]