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KAT500 Band Data Input Question

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w8fn

KAT500 Band Data Input Question

I have a brand new KAT500 coming, to be delivered tomorrow. I'm now
trying to figure how to integrate it into my SO2R contest station. I've
looked at the manual and done research in the reflector archives, but
I'm still unsure what it takes to make the tuner change bands. I have a
simple question:

Will the KAT500 respond to BCD band data alone at its control input or
is it also necessary for it to be connected to the Aux Bus (like the
KPA500) for it to change bands under positive hardware control?

I need to rig a way to share the tuner control between two dissimilar
radios. The primary radio is a K3, so there's no problem there. The
secondary radio is an old Yaesu FT-1000D, which obviously can't
communicate on the Aux Bus. My station setup will allow me to create and
select TTL band data for the appropriate radio, but it's not clear to me
that this is enough to control the tuner. I was quite surprised to find
out that the KPA500 wouldn't support control using band data commands
alone, and I'm afraid the KAT500 may share the same "feature". This
limitation really impedes the amp's usability in an automated station
using other than Elecraft radios, probably for sound technical reasons
that I don't quite understand. Can anyone tell me for sure how the
KAT500 is controlled?

73...
Randy, W8FN
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Dick Dievendorff-4

Re: KAT500 Band Data Input Question

Randy:

The KAT500 has four ways to learn the frequency.

First, at Tx, it counts the frequency. If you change bands and transmit, that's enough. That freq count is used to locate the appropriate memorized tuning solution.

Second are the four band lines. This is how the KAT500 and KPA50o can detect the K3 band before Tx. I don't know FT1000, but it might have four band lines that work similarly. This is sufficient to choose and Chang bands without Tx, but not the actual frequency within the band. The ATU loads the solution for the last known freq on the new band. When you Tx, it might need to load another solution.

Third is an RS232 port and a serial command set. Kenwood radios send an FA command with frequency, and the ATU can use that to select a specific memorized solution. Some customers have used Arduinos and the like to translate between what they have and the KAT500 serial command set. The command reference is on our manual page.

Finally the K3 can send an AUXBUS message on QSY and the ATU listens to that.

It will work with just the Tx freq count. If you want band change without Tx, you'll need one of the other three techniques. And if you want a specific memory selected without Tx, you'll need either the serial port command or the K3 AUXBUS message.

The KPA500 similarly will change bands with the four band lines or a Tx freq count. The KPA500 transmits on the AUXBUS but cannot not listen to AUXBUS. The KPA500 also has a serial command set, and the band can be changed using the KPA Utility or any other program that can send the band change command.

I don't understand your comment that the KPA500 won't follow the band lines, mine certainly does.

73 de Dick, K6KR

> On Jun 19, 2014, at 19:17, Randy Farmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have a brand new KAT500 coming, to be delivered tomorrow. I'm now trying to figure how to integrate it into my SO2R contest station. I've looked at the manual and done research in the reflector archives, but I'm still unsure what it takes to make the tuner change bands. I have a simple question:
>
> Will the KAT500 respond to BCD band data alone at its control input or is it also necessary for it to be connected to the Aux Bus (like the KPA500) for it to change bands under positive hardware control?
>
> I need to rig a way to share the tuner control between two dissimilar radios. The primary radio is a K3, so there's no problem there. The secondary radio is an old Yaesu FT-1000D, which obviously can't communicate on the Aux Bus. My station setup will allow me to create and select TTL band data for the appropriate radio, but it's not clear to me that this is enough to control the tuner. I was quite surprised to find out that the KPA500 wouldn't support control using band data commands alone, and I'm afraid the KAT500 may share the same "feature". This limitation really impedes the amp's usability in an automated station using other than Elecraft radios, probably for sound technical reasons that I don't quite understand. Can anyone tell me for sure how the KAT500 is controlled?
>
> 73...
> Randy, W8FN
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Jack Brindle-2

Re: KAT500 Band Data Input Question

Randy;

I fully agree with Dick’s analysis and comments, and I also question some of your assertions. The KPA does have a command set that allows it to be controlled from the computer. See the KPA500 Command Reference for details. I know of only one contest computer program that makes use of this - SkookumLogger on the Mac. But you should be able to code some of the commands into WriteLog or perhaps N1MM Logger to also perform the function.

The KPA takes band data from one of several methods - BCD (from K3 or other radios), analog (Icom), serial (Elecraft and Kenwood), computer control over the serial interface and RF from the radio itself. All of these work properly and have been verified in many stations. Interestingly, it cannot take band information over the Auxbus. As Dick mentioned, in the KPA, Auxbus is transmit only, and used specifically to send commands to the K3. In K3 mode, it receives band data through the BCD lines.

So how can we help you to get your station going properly. After all, we NCCCers do want your QSOs… ;-)

Jack Brindle, W6FB

On Jun 19, 2014, at 9:52 PM, Dick Dievendorff <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Randy:
>
> The KAT500 has four ways to learn the frequency.
>
> First, at Tx, it counts the frequency. If you change bands and transmit, that's enough. That freq count is used to locate the appropriate memorized tuning solution.
>
> Second are the four band lines. This is how the KAT500 and KPA50o can detect the K3 band before Tx. I don't know FT1000, but it might have four band lines that work similarly. This is sufficient to choose and Chang bands without Tx, but not the actual frequency within the band. The ATU loads the solution for the last known freq on the new band. When you Tx, it might need to load another solution.
>
> Third is an RS232 port and a serial command set. Kenwood radios send an FA command with frequency, and the ATU can use that to select a specific memorized solution. Some customers have used Arduinos and the like to translate between what they have and the KAT500 serial command set. The command reference is on our manual page.
>
> Finally the K3 can send an AUXBUS message on QSY and the ATU listens to that.
>
> It will work with just the Tx freq count. If you want band change without Tx, you'll need one of the other three techniques. And if you want a specific memory selected without Tx, you'll need either the serial port command or the K3 AUXBUS message.
>
> The KPA500 similarly will change bands with the four band lines or a Tx freq count. The KPA500 transmits on the AUXBUS but cannot not listen to AUXBUS. The KPA500 also has a serial command set, and the band can be changed using the KPA Utility or any other program that can send the band change command.
>
> I don't understand your comment that the KPA500 won't follow the band lines, mine certainly does.
>
> 73 de Dick, K6KR
>
>> On Jun 19, 2014, at 19:17, Randy Farmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I have a brand new KAT500 coming, to be delivered tomorrow. I'm now trying to figure how to integrate it into my SO2R contest station. I've looked at the manual and done research in the reflector archives, but I'm still unsure what it takes to make the tuner change bands. I have a simple question:
>>
>> Will the KAT500 respond to BCD band data alone at its control input or is it also necessary for it to be connected to the Aux Bus (like the KPA500) for it to change bands under positive hardware control?
>>
>> I need to rig a way to share the tuner control between two dissimilar radios. The primary radio is a K3, so there's no problem there. The secondary radio is an old Yaesu FT-1000D, which obviously can't communicate on the Aux Bus. My station setup will allow me to create and select TTL band data for the appropriate radio, but it's not clear to me that this is enough to control the tuner. I was quite surprised to find out that the KPA500 wouldn't support control using band data commands alone, and I'm afraid the KAT500 may share the same "feature". This limitation really impedes the amp's usability in an automated station using other than Elecraft radios, probably for sound technical reasons that I don't quite understand. Can anyone tell me for sure how the KAT500 is controlled?
>>
>> 73...
>> Randy, W8FN
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
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w8fn

Re: KAT500 Band Data Input Question

In reply to this post by Dick Dievendorff-4

Thanks to all who provided the helpful information that completely
answers my question, both on- and off- list. The crucial information I
needed is contained in the second paragraph of Dick's reply. It seemed
logical that the KAT500 would switch bands based only on the information
provided by the band code lines, but that is nowhere stated in the
manual or in any other source I could find. It would be helpful if the
manual stated this explicitly and even showed it as a valid setup
configuration for using the tuner with Yaesu radios or others that can
provide the band code directly. Dick's verbiage, with slight
modification, would be fine.

My setup will feed the KAT500 RF input from one antenna port of my
microHAM Double Ten antenna switch. I intend to use the tuner for two
separate antennas. Antenna 1 will be connected to my 80 meter Inverted
L, which also doubles as a second radio antenna that can be tuned to
different bands if required. Antenna 2 will be connected to my 160 meter
Inverted L, which is pretty narrowband and needs a "line flattener" to
make it useful across the entire band. I'll set the tuner up to select
Antenna 1 for all bands except 160m and Antenna 2 for 160 only using the
KAT500 Utility.

I realize that the KAT500 can automatically select the correct antenna
and tuning solution when RF at a particular frequency is applied, but my
concern with using the RF sensing bandswitching only is the possibility
of hot switching the antenna selector in the KPA500 when I QSY from 160
to 80 or vice versa. I will be using the key line interrupter to the
KPA500 on the primary station, but I'd rather have the tuner select the
proper antenna prior to transmission so that I'm at least on the correct
antenna before I transmit. Coming up with the tuning solution used for
the last known frequency on each band shouldn't be a big problem. In
order to give the tuner a "heads up" before RF shows up at the input
I'll send it a BCD band code. I have band data available for each radio
available at the Accessory port of my microHAM MK2R+. I'll build up a
simple 4-bit multiplexer with simple lockout logic to steer the
appropriate band code lines to the KAT500.

As for the KPA500, I simply misremembered my experience. I looked at my
notes from when I first set up the amp and saw that I had at first been
trying to use the AUXBUS alone, and that of course won't work. There's
nothing in the KPA500 manual that says that, either. Both the KPA500 and
KAT500 manuals would benefit from having an explanatory paragraph
explaining exactly what information is carried on the AUXBUS and how it
interacts with the band select lines. I also ordered a copy of the KE7X
KPA500/KAT500 book when I bought the tuner; maybe he explains these
nuances clearly.

Again, thanks to all who helped answer my question. Now I'm awaiting
arrival of the KAT500 kit so I can start setting things up. See you in
the contests and in the pileups.

73...
Randy, W8FN
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