KAT500 actual radiated power during tuning
Locked
 
|
When tuning using a KAT500 from an ICOM via an AH-4 interface what is the actual radiated power out the antenna? I was reading that ICOM's AH-4 tuner itself takes the input power and splits it into an internal dummy load and only radiates something like 300mW out the antenna, is the KAT500 comparable?
Thanks and 73, Erik Tkal - W1QED ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KAT500 actual radiated power during tuning
|
|
Erik,
The KAT500 relies on the transceiver power being reduced when tuning. I am not certain how (or if) that happens with an Icom transceiver, but the KAT500 needs about 20 watts for reliable tuning. That can happen automatically with the K3/K3S/KPA500 combination, but I don't know what the Icom can do to accommodate that same thing. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/6/2017 5:35 PM, E T wrote: > When tuning using a KAT500 from an ICOM via an AH-4 interface what is the actual radiated power out the antenna? I was reading that ICOM's AH-4 tuner itself takes the input power and splits it into an internal dummy load and only radiates something like 300mW out the antenna, is the KAT500 comparable? > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
|
|
I understand the requirements, and the ICOM IC-7300 puts out 12.5W by default (can be adjusted via service menus). I'm looking for a definitive answer as to the actual radiated power. Like I said, the ICOM AH-4 tuner specifies its actual radiated antenna power but the KAT500 does not so that's why I'm asking.
Thanks and 73, Erik Tkal - W1QED On Nov 6, 2017, at 6:29 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote: Erik, The KAT500 relies on the transceiver power being reduced when tuning. I am not certain how (or if) that happens with an Icom transceiver, but the KAT500 needs about 20 watts for reliable tuning. That can happen automatically with the K3/K3S/KPA500 combination, but I don't know what the Icom can do to accommodate that same thing. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/6/2017 5:35 PM, E T wrote: > When tuning using a KAT500 from an ICOM via an AH-4 interface what is the actual radiated power out the antenna? I was reading that ICOM's AH-4 tuner itself takes the input power and splits it into an internal dummy load and only radiates something like 300mW out the antenna, is the KAT500 comparable? > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KAT500 actual radiated power during tuning
|
|
Erik,
I don't know the workings of the Icom tuner, but the KAT500 needs 20 watts input to tune. All of that goes to the antenna. If part of that signal would be shunted to a dummy load, I don't think it would be tuned to the correct antenna impedance. I would have to know more about the configuration involved, but to my mind, it sounds like a dummy load is being connected in parallel with the antenna which would upset the impedance to be matched. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/6/2017 6:37 PM, E T wrote: > I understand the requirements, and the ICOM IC-7300 puts out 12.5W by > default (can be adjusted via service menus). I'm looking for a > definitive answer as to the actual radiated power. Like I said, the > ICOM AH-4 tuner specifies its actual radiated antenna power but the > KAT500 does not so that's why I'm asking. > > Thanks and 73, > Erik Tkal - W1QED > > On Nov 6, 2017, at 6:29 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > Erik, > > The KAT500 relies on the transceiver power being reduced when tuning. > I am not certain how (or if) that happens with an Icom transceiver, > but the KAT500 needs about 20 watts for reliable tuning. > That can happen automatically with the K3/K3S/KPA500 combination, but > I don't know what the Icom can do to accommodate that same thing. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 11/6/2017 5:35 PM, E T wrote: >> When tuning using a KAT500 from an ICOM via an AH-4 interface what is >> the actual radiated power out the antenna? I was reading that ICOM's >> AH-4 tuner itself takes the input power and splits it into an >> internal dummy load and only radiates something like 300mW out the >> antenna, is the KAT500 comparable? >> > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
|
|
In reply to this post by Erik Tkal
My KAT500 [when I still had it] put out variable power levels while it
was tuning. When it was tuned, it put out the TUNE power [25 W] into the antenna. More than once, someone called QRZ? after tuning in a clear spot. They probably saw my little signal on a fairly dead band on a panadapter. Is that what you were asking for? 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 11/6/2017 3:37 PM, E T wrote: > I understand the requirements, and the ICOM IC-7300 puts out 12.5W by default (can be adjusted via service menus). I'm looking for a definitive answer as to the actual radiated power. Like I said, the ICOM AH-4 tuner specifies its actual radiated antenna power but the KAT500 does not so that's why I'm asking. > > Thanks and 73, > Erik Tkal - W1QED > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
|
|
I can get and hook up a power meter, still looking for a definitive answer maybe from Wayne and Eric. If it puts out the full tuning power that is going into it (e.g. 10-20W) then I want to shift away from any signals I’m trying to tune to (rude to step on conversations), but if it’s using a low power like a RigExpert that would most likely not interfere then you get better accuracy…
Erik W1QED > On Nov 6, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]> wrote: > > My KAT500 [when I still had it] put out variable power levels while it was tuning. When it was tuned, it put out the TUNE power [25 W] into the antenna. More than once, someone called QRZ? after tuning in a clear spot. They probably saw my little signal on a fairly dead band on a panadapter. Is that what you were asking for? > > 73, > > Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW > Sparks NV DM09dn > Washoe County > > On 11/6/2017 3:37 PM, E T wrote: >> I understand the requirements, and the ICOM IC-7300 puts out 12.5W by default (can be adjusted via service menus). I'm looking for a definitive answer as to the actual radiated power. Like I said, the ICOM AH-4 tuner specifies its actual radiated antenna power but the KAT500 does not so that's why I'm asking. >> >> Thanks and 73, >> Erik Tkal - W1QED >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KAT500 actual radiated power during tuning
|
|
Assuming your antennas are stable, you should only need to go through the tune process once. The KAT500 will remember the proper settings for each frequency segment (see the manual for the size of the segments on each band) and will instantly return to those values at the first hint of rf. So spend some time training the tuner on each band and you don’t have to worry about interference. Once it is trained you can just find a frequency and start transmitting. No tune cycle required.
I note you don’t have a K3, but if you did the tuner would automagically follow the transceiver and switch values without any rf at all. Ken K6MR ________________________________ From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of E T <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 4:52:17 PM To: Fred Jensen Cc: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 actual radiated power during tuning I can get and hook up a power meter, still looking for a definitive answer maybe from Wayne and Eric. If it puts out the full tuning power that is going into it (e.g. 10-20W) then I want to shift away from any signals I’m trying to tune to (rude to step on conversations), but if it’s using a low power like a RigExpert that would most likely not interfere then you get better accuracy… Erik W1QED > On Nov 6, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]> wrote: > > My KAT500 [when I still had it] put out variable power levels while it was tuning. When it was tuned, it put out the TUNE power [25 W] into the antenna. More than once, someone called QRZ? after tuning in a clear spot. They probably saw my little signal on a fairly dead band on a panadapter. Is that what you were asking for? > > 73, > > Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW > Sparks NV DM09dn > Washoe County > > On 11/6/2017 3:37 PM, E T wrote: >> I understand the requirements, and the ICOM IC-7300 puts out 12.5W by default (can be adjusted via service menus). I'm looking for a definitive answer as to the actual radiated power. Like I said, the ICOM AH-4 tuner specifies its actual radiated antenna power but the KAT500 does not so that's why I'm asking. >> >> Thanks and 73, >> Erik Tkal - W1QED >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Felecraft&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=c7JjUZZ1siUZcYfzi0vToSBZSmmotk7yQYsimlwz1z4%3D&reserved=0 > Help: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmmfaq.htm&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=T6%2BUqDg%2FyW%2FO8LnqhPzFLa0xFilX1el2FARZlLCCb1M%3D&reserved=0 > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=PLu6zrWsfTNzpT2vNFpx7mFmgXpcyGlUdUYR62Q03yM%3D&reserved=0 > Please help support this email list: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net%2Fdonate.html&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=Co6GLMdljMCIIOrGhqkVk%2Bab5GKvk8lc39K%2BlLo7L7Q%3D&reserved=0 > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Felecraft&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=c7JjUZZ1siUZcYfzi0vToSBZSmmotk7yQYsimlwz1z4%3D&reserved=0 Help: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmmfaq.htm&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=T6%2BUqDg%2FyW%2FO8LnqhPzFLa0xFilX1el2FARZlLCCb1M%3D&reserved=0 Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=PLu6zrWsfTNzpT2vNFpx7mFmgXpcyGlUdUYR62Q03yM%3D&reserved=0 Please help support this email list: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net%2Fdonate.html&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=Co6GLMdljMCIIOrGhqkVk%2Bab5GKvk8lc39K%2BlLo7L7Q%3D&reserved=0 Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
|
|
Ken K6MR <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The KAT500 will remember the proper settings for each frequency segment > (see the manual for the size of the segments on each band) and will > instantly return to those values at the first hint of rf. Does it remember one set of settings for each segment or does it remember different settings for each of the antenna ports? -- Brian D G3VGZ Yarm England ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
|
|
In reply to this post by Erik Tkal
I've trained my KPA500 to remember the solutions at 20 KC increments across each band, starting at 10 KC from bottom. Works well.
Sent from my iPhone ...nr4c. bill > On Nov 6, 2017, at 7:52 PM, E T <[hidden email]> wrote: > > I can get and hook up a power meter, still looking for a definitive answer maybe from Wayne and Eric. If it puts out the full tuning power that is going into it (e.g. 10-20W) then I want to shift away from any signals I’m trying to tune to (rude to step on conversations), but if it’s using a low power like a RigExpert that would most likely not interfere then you get better accuracy… > > Erik W1QED > > >> On Nov 6, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> My KAT500 [when I still had it] put out variable power levels while it was tuning. When it was tuned, it put out the TUNE power [25 W] into the antenna. More than once, someone called QRZ? after tuning in a clear spot. They probably saw my little signal on a fairly dead band on a panadapter. Is that what you were asking for? >> >> 73, >> >> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW >> Sparks NV DM09dn >> Washoe County >> >>> On 11/6/2017 3:37 PM, E T wrote: >>> I understand the requirements, and the ICOM IC-7300 puts out 12.5W by default (can be adjusted via service menus). I'm looking for a definitive answer as to the actual radiated power. Like I said, the ICOM AH-4 tuner specifies its actual radiated antenna power but the KAT500 does not so that's why I'm asking. >>> >>> Thanks and 73, >>> Erik Tkal - W1QED >>> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [hidden email] > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KAT500 actual radiated power during tuning
|
|
Must be some magic going on in the AH-4. It specifies “Tuning power required: 5-15 watts”. Would be interesting to know where the other 14.7 watts is going. I’m pretty sure the KAT-500 doesn’t have anything like that.
The other thing you can do with the KAT-500 is specify when a tune sequence is initiated. I set mine for 1.9:1. If the SWR is less than that nothing happens. Allows for some variance in the antennas due to weather conditions. You can still initiate a tune if you want to manually, but it won’t do it on its own. The amps are happy below that so no reason to tune. Ken K6MR ________________________________ From: E T <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 5:28:16 PM To: Ken K6MR Cc: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 actual radiated power during tuning I know the training process, have done it many times on all my tuners, the KX3 and KX2 built-in, KXPA100, also an MFJ-993B and KAT500. And no, I currently do not have the K3 and the cables to transmit band switching. But even after training I find that all of these will occasionally perform a full tuning cycle even when close to a programmed frequency. So of course given that my antenna is stable I *shouldn’t* need to do a full tune yet there it is. The tuner behavior is out of my control if it decides to perform a full cycle when I press the tune button after a band or range switch. My point is that the AH-4 specs say: - 0.3 W RADIATED POWER - Radiated power during tuning is less than 0.3 W, minimizing interference to other stations. I’m just asking if the KAT500 has similar capabilities. Erik W1QED On Nov 6, 2017, at 8:08 PM, Ken K6MR <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: Assuming your antennas are stable, you should only need to go through the tune process once. The KAT500 will remember the proper settings for each frequency segment (see the manual for the size of the segments on each band) and will instantly return to those values at the first hint of rf. So spend some time training the tuner on each band and you don’t have to worry about interference. Once it is trained you can just find a frequency and start transmitting. No tune cycle required. I note you don’t have a K3, but if you did the tuner would automagically follow the transceiver and switch values without any rf at all. Ken K6MR ________________________________ From: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> on behalf of E T <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 4:52:17 PM To: Fred Jensen Cc: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 actual radiated power during tuning I can get and hook up a power meter, still looking for a definitive answer maybe from Wayne and Eric. If it puts out the full tuning power that is going into it (e.g. 10-20W) then I want to shift away from any signals I’m trying to tune to (rude to step on conversations), but if it’s using a low power like a RigExpert that would most likely not interfere then you get better accuracy… Erik W1QED > On Nov 6, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > My KAT500 [when I still had it] put out variable power levels while it was tuning. When it was tuned, it put out the TUNE power [25 W] into the antenna. More than once, someone called QRZ? after tuning in a clear spot. They probably saw my little signal on a fairly dead band on a panadapter. Is that what you were asking for? > > 73, > > Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW > Sparks NV DM09dn > Washoe County > > On 11/6/2017 3:37 PM, E T wrote: >> I understand the requirements, and the ICOM IC-7300 puts out 12.5W by default (can be adjusted via service menus). I'm looking for a definitive answer as to the actual radiated power. Like I said, the ICOM AH-4 tuner specifies its actual radiated antenna power but the KAT500 does not so that's why I'm asking. >> >> Thanks and 73, >> Erik Tkal - W1QED >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Felecraft&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=c7JjUZZ1siUZcYfzi0vToSBZSmmotk7yQYsimlwz1z4%3D&reserved=0 > Help: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmmfaq.htm&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=T6%2BUqDg%2FyW%2FO8LnqhPzFLa0xFilX1el2FARZlLCCb1M%3D&reserved=0 > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=PLu6zrWsfTNzpT2vNFpx7mFmgXpcyGlUdUYR62Q03yM%3D&reserved=0 > Please help support this email list: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net%2Fdonate.html&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=Co6GLMdljMCIIOrGhqkVk%2Bab5GKvk8lc39K%2BlLo7L7Q%3D&reserved=0 > Message delivered to [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Felecraft&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=c7JjUZZ1siUZcYfzi0vToSBZSmmotk7yQYsimlwz1z4%3D&reserved=0 Help: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmmfaq.htm&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=T6%2BUqDg%2FyW%2FO8LnqhPzFLa0xFilX1el2FARZlLCCb1M%3D&reserved=0 Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=PLu6zrWsfTNzpT2vNFpx7mFmgXpcyGlUdUYR62Q03yM%3D&reserved=0 Please help support this email list: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net%2Fdonate.html&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=Co6GLMdljMCIIOrGhqkVk%2Bab5GKvk8lc39K%2BlLo7L7Q%3D&reserved=0 Message delivered to [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KAT500 actual radiated power during tuning
|
|
In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm
A technique that works well using a dummy load to adjust a tuner is to
set up a bridge configuration where the dummy load absorbs the power and the tuner is used to balance the bridge. Once done the dummy load is switched out and rig drives the tuner. Electric Radio use to sell a bridge like this that I have used with my Drake amps for years and really nice way to minimize QRM. Dave K5MWR On 11/6/2017 5:52 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Erik, > > I don't know the workings of the Icom tuner, but the KAT500 needs 20 > watts input to tune. All of that goes to the antenna. > > If part of that signal would be shunted to a dummy load, I don't think > it would be tuned to the correct antenna impedance. > I would have to know more about the configuration involved, but to my > mind, it sounds like a dummy load is being connected in parallel with > the antenna which would upset the impedance to be matched. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 11/6/2017 6:37 PM, E T wrote: >> I understand the requirements, and the ICOM IC-7300 puts out 12.5W by >> default (can be adjusted via service menus). I'm looking for a >> definitive answer as to the actual radiated power. Like I said, the >> ICOM AH-4 tuner specifies its actual radiated antenna power but the >> KAT500 does not so that's why I'm asking. >> >> Thanks and 73, >> Erik Tkal - W1QED >> >> On Nov 6, 2017, at 6:29 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email] >> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: >> >> Erik, >> >> The KAT500 relies on the transceiver power being reduced when tuning. >> I am not certain how (or if) that happens with an Icom transceiver, >> but the KAT500 needs about 20 watts for reliable tuning. >> That can happen automatically with the K3/K3S/KPA500 combination, but >> I don't know what the Icom can do to accommodate that same thing. >> >> 73, >> Don W3FPR >> >> On 11/6/2017 5:35 PM, E T wrote: >>> When tuning using a KAT500 from an ICOM via an AH-4 interface what >>> is the actual radiated power out the antenna? I was reading that >>> ICOM's AH-4 tuner itself takes the input power and splits it into an >>> internal dummy load and only radiates something like 300mW out the >>> antenna, is the KAT500 comparable? >>> >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
|
|
In reply to this post by Erik Tkal
Erik, I think your question has been answered, several times ... as I
said once, and will tell you once more, my KAT put 25 W into the antenna connector when it had finished tuning. While it was tuning, the power varied. Note: 25 W in with it tuned yielded 25 W out [less losses my power measuring equipment could not discern]. The memory segments vary by band. They're in my station notebook which I'm not going to dig out now, but they increase in BW from 160 [10 KHz, maybe 20] to 100 KHz at 10 meters. 6 may be 200 KHz. Once tuned in the center of each segment, I left my KAT500 in MAN and it never retuned of course. Many factors would affect my antennas and when the SWR climbed between summer and winter, I just let it retune. I have no idea what's in an AH-4 or if it actually does what you say. I do know what my KAT500 did. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 11/6/2017 5:28 PM, E T wrote: > I know the training process, have done it many times on all my tuners, the KX3 and KX2 built-in, KXPA100, also an MFJ-993B and KAT500. And no, I currently do not have the K3 and the cables to transmit band switching. But even after training I find that all of these will occasionally perform a full tuning cycle even when close to a programmed frequency. > > So of course given that my antenna is stable I *shouldn’t* need to do a full tune yet there it is. The tuner behavior is out of my control if it decides to perform a full cycle when I press the tune button after a band or range switch. > > My point is that the AH-4 specs say: > > - 0.3 W RADIATED POWER > - Radiated power during tuning is less than 0.3 W, minimizing interference to other stations. > > I’m just asking if the KAT500 has similar capabilities. > > Erik W1QED > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KAT500 actual radiated power during tuning
|
|
In reply to this post by k6mrmagnet
The AH-4 inserts an internal 16 dB attenuator between the radio and the
tuner network during the tuning mode. After the match is resolved the attenuator is switched out of the signal path. This assures the radio will always see a near 50 ohm load. 73 Bob, K4TAX On 11/6/2017 7:52 PM, Ken K6MR wrote: > Must be some magic going on in the AH-4. It specifies “Tuning power required: 5-15 watts”. Would be interesting to know where the other 14.7 watts is going. I’m pretty sure the KAT-500 doesn’t have anything like that. > > The other thing you can do with the KAT-500 is specify when a tune sequence is initiated. I set mine for 1.9:1. If the SWR is less than that nothing happens. Allows for some variance in the antennas due to weather conditions. You can still initiate a tune if you want to manually, but it won’t do it on its own. The amps are happy below that so no reason to tune. > > Ken K6MR > > ________________________________ > From: E T <[hidden email]> > Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 5:28:16 PM > To: Ken K6MR > Cc: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 actual radiated power during tuning > > I know the training process, have done it many times on all my tuners, the KX3 and KX2 built-in, KXPA100, also an MFJ-993B and KAT500. And no, I currently do not have the K3 and the cables to transmit band switching. But even after training I find that all of these will occasionally perform a full tuning cycle even when close to a programmed frequency. > > So of course given that my antenna is stable I *shouldn’t* need to do a full tune yet there it is. The tuner behavior is out of my control if it decides to perform a full cycle when I press the tune button after a band or range switch. > > My point is that the AH-4 specs say: > > - 0.3 W RADIATED POWER > - Radiated power during tuning is less than 0.3 W, minimizing interference to other stations. > > I’m just asking if the KAT500 has similar capabilities. > > Erik W1QED > > > > > On Nov 6, 2017, at 8:08 PM, Ken K6MR <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > Assuming your antennas are stable, you should only need to go through the tune process once. The KAT500 will remember the proper settings for each frequency segment (see the manual for the size of the segments on each band) and will instantly return to those values at the first hint of rf. So spend some time training the tuner on each band and you don’t have to worry about interference. Once it is trained you can just find a frequency and start transmitting. No tune cycle required. > > > > I note you don’t have a K3, but if you did the tuner would automagically follow the transceiver and switch values without any rf at all. > > > > Ken K6MR > > > > ________________________________ > From: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> on behalf of E T <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> > Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 4:52:17 PM > To: Fred Jensen > Cc: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 actual radiated power during tuning > > I can get and hook up a power meter, still looking for a definitive answer maybe from Wayne and Eric. If it puts out the full tuning power that is going into it (e.g. 10-20W) then I want to shift away from any signals I’m trying to tune to (rude to step on conversations), but if it’s using a low power like a RigExpert that would most likely not interfere then you get better accuracy… > > Erik W1QED > > >> On Nov 6, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: >> >> My KAT500 [when I still had it] put out variable power levels while it was tuning. When it was tuned, it put out the TUNE power [25 W] into the antenna. More than once, someone called QRZ? after tuning in a clear spot. They probably saw my little signal on a fairly dead band on a panadapter. Is that what you were asking for? >> >> 73, >> >> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW >> Sparks NV DM09dn >> Washoe County >> >> On 11/6/2017 3:37 PM, E T wrote: >>> I understand the requirements, and the ICOM IC-7300 puts out 12.5W by default (can be adjusted via service menus). I'm looking for a definitive answer as to the actual radiated power. Like I said, the ICOM AH-4 tuner specifies its actual radiated antenna power but the KAT500 does not so that's why I'm asking. >>> >>> Thanks and 73, >>> Erik Tkal - W1QED >>> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Felecraft&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=c7JjUZZ1siUZcYfzi0vToSBZSmmotk7yQYsimlwz1z4%3D&reserved=0 >> Help: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmmfaq.htm&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=T6%2BUqDg%2FyW%2FO8LnqhPzFLa0xFilX1el2FARZlLCCb1M%3D&reserved=0 >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=PLu6zrWsfTNzpT2vNFpx7mFmgXpcyGlUdUYR62Q03yM%3D&reserved=0 >> Please help support this email list: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net%2Fdonate.html&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=Co6GLMdljMCIIOrGhqkVk%2Bab5GKvk8lc39K%2BlLo7L7Q%3D&reserved=0 >> Message delivered to [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Felecraft&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=c7JjUZZ1siUZcYfzi0vToSBZSmmotk7yQYsimlwz1z4%3D&reserved=0 > Help: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmmfaq.htm&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=T6%2BUqDg%2FyW%2FO8LnqhPzFLa0xFilX1el2FARZlLCCb1M%3D&reserved=0 > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=PLu6zrWsfTNzpT2vNFpx7mFmgXpcyGlUdUYR62Q03yM%3D&reserved=0 > Please help support this email list: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net%2Fdonate.html&data=02%7C01%7Ck6mr%40outlook.com%7C49b106ac706446bfa01808d52579ef47%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636456127982919553&sdata=Co6GLMdljMCIIOrGhqkVk%2Bab5GKvk8lc39K%2BlLo7L7Q%3D&reserved=0 > Message delivered to [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
|
|
Another thing to consider when trying not to QRM others while the ATU is
tuning: The signal can be pretty broad when the relays are switching. 73, Scott K9MA -- Scott K9MA [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
|
|
In reply to this post by k6mrmagnet
Don't set to auto tune. Use semi or manual whatever your ATU calls it so the it doesn't retune on its own.
Sent from my iPhone ...nr4c. bill > On Nov 6, 2017, at 8:52 PM, Ken K6MR <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Must be some magic going on in the AH-4. It specifies “Tuning power required: 5-15 watts”. Would be interesting to know where the other 14.7 watts is going. I’m pretty sure the KAT-500 doesn’t have anything like that. > > The other thing you can do with the KAT-500 is specify when a tune sequence is initiated. I set mine for 1.9:1. If the SWR is less than that nothing happens. Allows for some variance in the antennas due to weather conditions. You can still initiate a tune if you want to manually, but it won’t do it on its own. The amps are happy below that so no reason to tune. > > Ken K6MR > > ________________________________ > From: E T <[hidden email]> > Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 5:28:16 PM > To: Ken K6MR > Cc: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 actual radiated power during tuning > > I know the training process, have done it many times on all my tuners, the KX3 and KX2 built-in, KXPA100, also an MFJ-993B and KAT500. And no, I currently do not have the K3 and the cables to transmit band switching. But even after training I find that all of these will occasionally perform a full tuning cycle even when close to a programmed frequency. > > So of course given that my antenna is stable I *shouldn’t* need to do a full tune yet there it is. The tuner behavior is out of my control if it decides to perform a full cycle when I press the tune button after a band or range switch. > > My point is that the AH-4 specs say: > > - 0.3 W RADIATED POWER > - Radiated power during tuning is less than 0.3 W, minimizing interference to other stations. > > I’m just asking if the KAT500 has similar capabilities. > > Erik W1QED ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
«
Return to Elecraft
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |