KBPF3 frequency range

[Nelson Wittstock]

I'm considering adding a KBPF3 to my growing order list but I am curious as
to what is the range of frequencies that are covered with this filter.  Did
I miss seeing it when I searched the Elecraft site?

Nelson, K8DJC


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[wayne burdick]

Hi Nelson,

The KBPF3 extends coverage to 0.5-30 MHz continuous, except for a small
gap right around the first I.F. (8.215 MHz). It has no impact on the
6-meter coverage (specified from 50-54 and tunable down to 48 MHz).

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Nov 6, 2007, at 9:05 AM, Nelson Wittstock wrote:

> I'm considering adding a KBPF3 to my growing order list but I am
> curious as to what is the range of frequencies that are covered with
> this filter.  Did I miss seeing it when I searched the Elecraft site?
>

---

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[gm3sek]

Wayne Burdick wrote:
>
>The KBPF3 extends coverage to 0.5-30 MHz continuous, except for a small
>gap right around the first I.F. (8.215 MHz). It has no impact on the
>6-meter coverage (specified from 50-54 and tunable down to 48 MHz).
>
On the subject of 50MHz, Wayne, please could you say more about the
receiver sensitivity specification?

At present the sensitivity spec is the same on all bands, namely: "-136
dBm (typical), preamp on, 500Hz b/w". Assuming that figure represents
the noise floor, it is more than adequate for HF (and maybe even 'too
good' for the lower bands); but in VHF-speak it translates to a noise
figure of 13.6dB, which is less than stellar.

Could you comment, please?


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73 from Ian GM3SEK
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[wayne burdick]

Ian White GM3SEK wrote:

> On the subject of 50MHz, Wayne, please could you say more about the
> receiver sensitivity specification?
> At present the sensitivity spec is the same on all bands, namely:
> "-136 dBm (typical), preamp on, 500Hz b/w"....

Hi Ian,

The K3 is optimized for high dynamic range, which requires a
high-intercept preamp and mixer as well as the narrowest possible
band-pass filters (consistent with good return loss). We also used PIN
diode T-R switching to eliminate relays during QSK. There are small
front-end losses associated with each of these design choices.

However, there is a way that one could have the best of both worlds.
Those who would like an extremely low NF on 6 meters (or other bands)
could patch in an external low-noise preamp between the RX ANT IN and
OUT jacks. I've asked one our staff engineers to look into such a
design, although there may be third-party products already available.

You'd need the KXV3 option. The KXV3's RX ANT IN/OUT jacks are fully
isolated from the transmit path, so high-sensitivity devices could be
used in the preamp. The RX ANT IN/OUT jacks are also pre-BPF and can be
turned on/off per-band. A 6-meter-only implementation with its own
optimized BPFs could provide a world-class NF.

Further, you could power the external preamp from the K3's 12-V DC
accessory output (up to 0.5 A, switched).

I personally prefer this means of achieving a very low 6-meter NF,
because it doesn't result in compromises to the rest of the design.
There are other rigs on the market that incorporate a second,
switchable preamp specifically for this purpose, but none of these can
match the K3's close-in dynamic range on HF.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


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[gm3sek]

Wayne
wrote:

>Ian White GM3SEK wrote:
>
>> On the subject of 50MHz, Wayne, please could you say more about the
>>receiver sensitivity specification?
>> At present the sensitivity spec is the same on all bands, namely:
>>"-136 dBm (typical), preamp on, 500Hz b/w"....
>
>Hi Ian,
>
>The K3 is optimized for high dynamic range, which requires a
>high-intercept preamp and mixer as well as the narrowest possible
>band-pass filters (consistent with good return loss). We also used PIN
>diode T-R switching to eliminate relays during QSK. There are small
>front-end losses associated with each of these design choices.
>
>However, there is a way that one could have the best of both worlds.
>Those who would like an extremely low NF on 6 meters (or other bands)
>could patch in an external low-noise preamp between the RX ANT IN and
>OUT jacks. I've asked one our staff engineers to look into such a
>design, although there may be third-party products already available.
>
>You'd need the KXV3 option. The KXV3's RX ANT IN/OUT jacks are fully
>isolated from the transmit path, so high-sensitivity devices could be
>used in the preamp. The RX ANT IN/OUT jacks are also pre-BPF and can be
>turned on/off per-band. A 6-meter-only implementation with its own
>optimized BPFs could provide a world-class NF.
>
>Further, you could power the external preamp from the K3's 12-V DC
>accessory output (up to 0.5 A, switched).
>
>I personally prefer this means of achieving a very low 6-meter NF,
>because it doesn't result in compromises to the rest of the design.
>There are other rigs on the market that incorporate a second,
>switchable preamp specifically for this purpose, but none of these can
>match the K3's close-in dynamic range on HF.
>
>73,
>Wayne
>N6KR

Thank you for the prompt and thoughtful reply.

Nobody should join a mindless stampede for the lowest possible NF on 6
metres. For more than 20 years, I have been urging VHF/UHF DXers to
optimize their dynamic range in exactly the same way that we do on HF.

The receiver noise floor at VHF needs to be lower than at HF, to take
advantage of the lower antenna noise level; but it's a very delicate
tradeoff. Above all, it is vital to use no more preamp gain than
absolutely necessary, because unnecessary gain will have a dB-for-dB
impact on the strong-signal handling.

The optimum solution is always to use a preamp at the antenna; but that
isn't always practical, which is why most transceivers offer the option
of a built-in preamp. The band-definable RX IN/OUT jacks on the KXV3
will allow us to use a dedicated 6m preamp - if not actually inside the
rig, at least right behind it.

Should Elecraft supply a 6m preamp as an option for the K3? Yes, I think
you should, because third-party preamps are notorious for having far too
much gain. To preserve the K3's reputation for high dynamic range on
*all* bands, it would be best to keep the gain/NF tradeoffs for 6m under
factory control. Obviously this option is not a high priority; but it
certainly would be worthwhile.



--

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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[wayne burdick]

Ian White GM3SEK wrote:

> Should Elecraft supply a 6m preamp as an option for the K3? Yes, I
> think you should, because third-party preamps are notorious for having
> far too much gain. To preserve the K3's reputation for high dynamic
> range on *all* bands, it would be best to keep the gain/NF tradeoffs
> for 6m under factory control. Obviously this option is not a high
> priority; but it certainly would be worthwhile.

Thanks for the suggestions, Ian. We'll look into this.

I should mention that the operator would be able to turn the K3's
regular preamp off when using the external preamp, if desired (and/or
turn on the attenuator). Thus there would be a full range of possible
NF/dynamic range tradeoffs under convenient operator control. (The
on/off state of both the attenuator and regular preamp are stored
per-RX ANT switch state.)

73,
Wayne
N6KR


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[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

wayne burdick wrote:

> I should mention that the operator would be able to turn the K3's regular
> preamp off when using the external preamp, if desired (and/or turn on the
> attenuator). Thus there would be a full range of possible NF/dynamic range
> tradeoffs under convenient operator control.

This capability is especially advantageous for 6M work because of the
prevalence of sporadic-E propagation on this band. When the E-skip is running
hot during a summer contest, propagated signals equaling or even exceeding the
strength of local stations are commonplace, and that rather big band can get
VERY crowded very quickly. The tremendous strength of these signals is due in
large measure to the very efficient nature of sporadic-E ionization. Formed by
high-energy wind shear layers, sporadic-E clouds are very planar, and are
therefore in general more efficient reflectors than the more loosely
structured F2 layer. In addition, they are closer to the Earth, so there is
less relative path loss. Finally, 6M antenna systems are oftentimes "larger"
in terms of ERP than a system of equivalent cost on HF. It all adds up to
extremely strong signals.

But if you live well out into the countryside, away from the man-made RF
racket of the towns and cities, 6M can be a very quiet band, much quieter than
on 30 MHz and below. (I wish I lived far enough out in the boonies to be able
to hear my receiver's noise floor with the antenna connected!)

IMO, due to the combined effect of all these factors, 6M arguably demands the
highest flexibility in receive dynamic range vs. sensitivity of any amateur
band.

Bill / W5WVO

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[AC7AC]

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

[Brett Gazdzinski]

Ron,
Thanks for the CW decode report.
I cant wait to get my K3 and try it.
I have no rig to use on CW right now, the homebrew receivers
dont cover the CW portion of the bands.
I did make one qso on the K2 before I sold it, and got so excited
I sort of lost it on the air, despite all those long  CW rag chews in the
past.
Operating CW again was fun, I need to get comfortable with it and get back
into the swing of things, maybe even try the keyer and paddle stuff.
its nice to know the K3 will help out if the other guy starts sending a bit
too fast...

Brett
N2DTS



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[Doug Person]

I'm curious - does the K3 send the decoded text through the serial port
where it might be displayed in a terminal program?

Doug -- K0DXV

Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Today I had a few minutes to scan 20 meters with the K3. I heard a slow,
> hesitant fist calling CQ on 14057, so I grabbed my trusty J-38 hand pump and
> answered him.
>
> We commenced a nice slow QSO at something less than 10 WPM. His fist was
> perfectly R5 but his spacing was very ragged and uneven. At 10 WPM I had
> lots of time to 'kill' copying his transmission my head so I punched up CW
> text decode on the K3, choosing the CW 5-40 (WPM) setting, just to see if it
> could make sense of his fist.
>
> Frankly, I was amazed! The decoder software kept up with the constant
> changes in speed and spacing well enough that I could have shut off the
> audio and, while the copy wasn't 100% for every letter, I wouldn't have
> missed a single thing of importance. Sure, now and again when he'd suddenly
> send a "B" as "dah"..........."di-di".."dit" the decoder faithfully printed
> out "T" "I" "E", but as his speed shifted all around it very quickly
> recovered and caught onto whatever new CW rate he was sending at before
> changing speeds again. He was using a straight key and the relative length
> of his dots and dashes changed constantly too, but the decoder quickly
> figured out which was which! Of course the decoder had the help of an
> adjustable threshold level and the superb K3 filtering that makes puny
> signals stand out.
>
> This is a great feature for anyone who wants to hone their CW skills from
> the most basic level on the air. As a  Novice myself back in '52 who could
> barely get through a short signal exchange before my arm 'fell off' or my
> last pencil point broke in my nervous hand I believe that actual on-air
> experience is the fastest way to build CW confidence and skill.
>
> Off-air CW practice is good. After 55 years I still do it regularly, but I
> hate to see anyone messing about for hours on a practice oscillator, denying
> themselves the fun of a real QSO, simply because they are afraid they aren't
> "good enough". That's the real value of FISTS (whose frequencies this fellow
> was hanging out near) and why I'll gladly slow down for a chat with someone
> brave enough to put a signal on the air. If your copy skills are shaky at
> best, the decoder will let you QSO with others who are hammering away
> unsteadily on a straight key even if you can't figure out a single letter in
> your head.
>
> What a 'safety net'! No one learning CW need worry about getting on the air
> now and not being able to understand the other station!
>
> Every time I get a chance to spend a few minutes operating the K3 I
> rediscover just how quickly using it becomes addictive! Shoot, if these
> things could be grown in your garden, they'd be illegal!
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
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>
>  

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[wayne burdick]

On Nov 6, 2007, at 6:02 PM, Doug Person wrote:

> I'm curious - does the K3 send the decoded text through the serial
> port where it might be displayed in a terminal program?
>
> Doug -- K0DXV
>

Yes. There's no third-party software support to do this yet, but all
you have to do is run a terminal emulator program on the PC, then send
"TT1;" to the K3 (this turns on text-to-terminal). You can receive CW,
FSK, and PSK31 this way. To transmit, you can send small packets using
the Key command, e.g. "KY CQ DE N6KR K;".

The K3 Utility program, which includes our download, will include an
ASCII terminal that does all this for you at some point.

For further details see the K3 Programmer's Reference, available on our
K3 page.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


---

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[w2bvh]

An interesting design to benchmark against might be YU1AW's moderate
noise figure / high IP3 preamps using BFP196 / BFG540. See
http://www.qsl.net/yu1aw/bfp196peng.htm for some details.

73,
Lenny W2BVH
K2 sn 1520

Ian White GM3SEK wrote:

> Wayne
> wrote:
>> Ian White GM3SEK wrote:
>>
>>> On the subject of 50MHz, Wayne, please could you say more about the
>>> receiver sensitivity specification?
>>> At present the sensitivity spec is the same on all bands, namely:
>>> "-136 dBm (typical), preamp on, 500Hz b/w"....
>>
>> Hi Ian,
>>
>> The K3 is optimized for high dynamic range, which requires a
>> high-intercept preamp and mixer as well as the narrowest possible
>> band-pass filters (consistent with good return loss). We also used
>> PIN diode T-R switching to eliminate relays during QSK. There are
>> small front-end losses associated with each of these design choices.
>>
>> However, there is a way that one could have the best of both worlds.
>> Those who would like an extremely low NF on 6 meters (or other bands)
>> could patch in an external low-noise preamp between the RX ANT IN and
>> OUT jacks. I've asked one our staff engineers to look into such a
>> design, although there may be third-party products already available.
>>
>> You'd need the KXV3 option. The KXV3's RX ANT IN/OUT jacks are fully
>> isolated from the transmit path, so high-sensitivity devices could be
>> used in the preamp. The RX ANT IN/OUT jacks are also pre-BPF and can
>> be turned on/off per-band. A 6-meter-only implementation with its own
>> optimized BPFs could provide a world-class NF.
>>
>> Further, you could power the external preamp from the K3's 12-V DC
>> accessory output (up to 0.5 A, switched).
>>
>> I personally prefer this means of achieving a very low 6-meter NF,
>> because it doesn't result in compromises to the rest of the design.
>> There are other rigs on the market that incorporate a second,
>> switchable preamp specifically for this purpose, but none of these
>> can match the K3's close-in dynamic range on HF.
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>
> Thank you for the prompt and thoughtful reply.
>
> Nobody should join a mindless stampede for the lowest possible NF on 6
> metres. For more than 20 years, I have been urging VHF/UHF DXers to
> optimize their dynamic range in exactly the same way that we do on HF.
>
> The receiver noise floor at VHF needs to be lower than at HF, to take
> advantage of the lower antenna noise level; but it's a very delicate
> tradeoff. Above all, it is vital to use no more preamp gain than
> absolutely necessary, because unnecessary gain will have a dB-for-dB
> impact on the strong-signal handling.
>
> The optimum solution is always to use a preamp at the antenna; but
> that isn't always practical, which is why most transceivers offer the
> option of a built-in preamp. The band-definable RX IN/OUT jacks on the
> KXV3 will allow us to use a dedicated 6m preamp - if not actually
> inside the rig, at least right behind it.
>
> Should Elecraft supply a 6m preamp as an option for the K3? Yes, I
> think you should, because third-party preamps are notorious for having
> far too much gain. To preserve the K3's reputation for high dynamic
> range on *all* bands, it would be best to keep the gain/NF tradeoffs
> for 6m under factory control. Obviously this option is not a high
> priority; but it certainly would be worthwhile.
>
>
>

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[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Wayne,

How is the data returned if TT1: is enabled?  Is the CAT
function disabled and the port turned into a pure terminal
output or is the received/decoded data returned in
"chunks" within a "TT" report (e.g. TT[a string of N characters];)?

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of wayne burdick
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:13 PM
> To: Doug Person
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: An Observation for Struggling
> Brass-Pounders
>
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2007, at 6:02 PM, Doug Person wrote:
>
> > I'm curious - does the K3 send the decoded text through the serial
> > port where it might be displayed in a terminal program?
> >
> > Doug -- K0DXV
> >
>
> Yes. There's no third-party software support to do this yet, but all
> you have to do is run a terminal emulator program on the PC,
> then send
> "TT1;" to the K3 (this turns on text-to-terminal). You can
> receive CW,
> FSK, and PSK31 this way. To transmit, you can send small
> packets using
> the Key command, e.g. "KY CQ DE N6KR K;".
>
> The K3 Utility program, which includes our download, will include an
> ASCII terminal that does all this for you at some point.
>
> For further details see the K3 Programmer's Reference,
> available on our
> K3 page.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> ---
>
> http://www.elecraft.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>

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[KENT TRIMBLE]

Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

>Shoot, if these things could be grown in your garden, they'd be illegal!
>  
>

Only if you smoke 'em.

K9ZTV
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[wayne burdick]

Hi Joe,

After sending "TT1;", any decoded text (TX or RX, at the K3) is
streamed to the terminal without request commands. The user (or
software application) can continue to send commands to the radio
completely transparent to the text stream as long as the command
doesn't return anything (e.g., an "UP;" command to move the VFO one
unit, etc.). If the application needs to send command that returns a
string, it can optionally send "TT0;" to suspend the stream
temporarily, or it can attempt to parse the returned string from the
stream.

We may tweak this behavior in the future. If so, it'll be documented in
the K3 Programmer's Reference.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Nov 7, 2007, at 8:06 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> Wayne,
>
> How is the data returned if TT1: is enabled?  Is the CAT
> function disabled and the port turned into a pure terminal
> output or is the received/decoded data returned in
> "chunks" within a "TT" report (e.g. TT[a string of N characters];)?
>
> 73,
>
>    ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of wayne burdick
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:13 PM
>> To: Doug Person
>> Cc: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: An Observation for Struggling
>> Brass-Pounders
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2007, at 6:02 PM, Doug Person wrote:
>>
>>> I'm curious - does the K3 send the decoded text through the serial
>>> port where it might be displayed in a terminal program?
>>>
>>> Doug -- K0DXV
>>>
>>
>> Yes. There's no third-party software support to do this yet, but all
>> you have to do is run a terminal emulator program on the PC,
>> then send
>> "TT1;" to the K3 (this turns on text-to-terminal). You can
>> receive CW,
>> FSK, and PSK31 this way. To transmit, you can send small
>> packets using
>> the Key command, e.g. "KY CQ DE N6KR K;".
>>
>> The K3 Utility program, which includes our download, will include an
>> ASCII terminal that does all this for you at some point.
>>
>> For further details see the K3 Programmer's Reference,
>> available on our
>> K3 page.
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> http://www.elecraft.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Post to: [hidden email]
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>>
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>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>
>>
>
>
>

---

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[Doug Person]

Wayne,
Thanks for the update on this.  As a semi-retired software developer for
Big-Blue, I'm thinking it would be fun to write an interface for this in
the Eclipse platform - which is runnable on almost any OS.
Doug-- K0DXV

wayne burdick wrote:

> Hi Joe,
>
> After sending "TT1;", any decoded text (TX or RX, at the K3) is
> streamed to the terminal without request commands. The user (or
> software application) can continue to send commands to the radio
> completely transparent to the text stream as long as the command
> doesn't return anything (e.g., an "UP;" command to move the VFO one
> unit, etc.). If the application needs to send command that returns a
> string, it can optionally send "TT0;" to suspend the stream
> temporarily, or it can attempt to parse the returned string from the
> stream.
>
> We may tweak this behavior in the future. If so, it'll be documented
> in the K3 Programmer's Reference.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> On Nov 7, 2007, at 8:06 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>
>>
>> Wayne,
>>
>> How is the data returned if TT1: is enabled?  Is the CAT
>> function disabled and the port turned into a pure terminal
>> output or is the received/decoded data returned in
>> "chunks" within a "TT" report (e.g. TT[a string of N characters];)?
>>
>> 73,
>>
>>    ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of wayne burdick
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:13 PM
>>> To: Doug Person
>>> Cc: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: An Observation for Struggling
>>> Brass-Pounders
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 6, 2007, at 6:02 PM, Doug Person wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm curious - does the K3 send the decoded text through the serial
>>>> port where it might be displayed in a terminal program?
>>>>
>>>> Doug -- K0DXV
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes. There's no third-party software support to do this yet, but all
>>> you have to do is run a terminal emulator program on the PC,
>>> then send
>>> "TT1;" to the K3 (this turns on text-to-terminal). You can
>>> receive CW,
>>> FSK, and PSK31 this way. To transmit, you can send small
>>> packets using
>>> the Key command, e.g. "KY CQ DE N6KR K;".
>>>
>>> The K3 Utility program, which includes our download, will include an
>>> ASCII terminal that does all this for you at some point.
>>>
>>> For further details see the K3 Programmer's Reference,
>>> available on our
>>> K3 page.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Wayne
>>> N6KR
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> http://www.elecraft.com
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ---
>
> http://www.elecraft.com
>
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[Julian, G4ILO]

On Nov 7, 2007 5:40 PM, Doug Person <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Wayne,
> Thanks for the update on this.  As a semi-retired software developer for
> Big-Blue, I'm thinking it would be fun to write an interface for this in
> the Eclipse platform - which is runnable on almost any OS.
> Doug-- K0DXV

I'm also hacking something together to do this. I may be asking for
guinea pigs to try it, since I don't have an actual K3 to play with.

I'm using Lazarus, a free cross platform clone of Borland Delphi, and
I'll make the source code available under the GPL so it ought to be
fairly easy for anyone who knows the Pascal language to make versions
that run on Linux or Mac OS, or add extra functionality that they feel
is missing.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf
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