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Larry Walker

KN

Many older-model hams would say KN means "over to you specifically, no
breakers please"!

KW4A ex K0IET ex KN0IET

Larry

Licensed sinced 1956

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Phil Kane-2

Re: KN

On 7/19/2011 9:47 AM, Larry A. Waler wrote:

> Many older-model hams would say KN means "over to you specifically, no
> breakers please"!

That's how I interpret it. What gets me is the use of "CW"
prosigns on digital modes (PSK, for instance) where either
plain language or "usually-accepted" TTY procedures would be
preferable.

For example - I have the devil's own time trying to convince my
fellow PSK net colleagues to send a few <LF/CR> at the
beginning and end of a transmission so there's a visual break
between that and the next station's transmissions. We used to
do that with torn-tape traffic.

Color me nit-picker <ggg> Of course, I use my K2 for PSK -
works like a charm!

> KW4A ex K0IET ex KN0IET
> Licensed sinced 1956

K2ASP ex KN2ASP (now club call) ex-couple of other calls
Licensed since 1952

-- 73 de Phil Kane

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John Ragle

Re: KN

Hi, Phil...

1. Agree completely with meaning of _KN_...but don't understand why
so many PSK'ers use it...breaking a PSK QSO is somewhat difficult.

2. <LF/CR> is just good practice...so much of the first couple of
exchanges in PSK is done by macro that one would think people would
include the <LF/CR> a couple of times in their macro texts. Also, at the
beginning of an exchange, where the "call de call" macro begins things,
I always include 2 <LF/CR> as a separator. I use the separator freely in
the text I send...it serves as a kind of buffer while one collects ones
thoughts, just as "unhhu.." has become a standard part of our spoken
American English.

3. One habit that I find particularly annoying is the termination
of a PSK transmission with "pse kn." Since it is not unusual to lose a
letter or two due to fading, a "k k k" would be more effective...

4. Being an old ham (lightly cured since 1946) but relatively new
to PSK (6-8 years) I am greatly amused by some of the things that
PSK'ers do -- "created in..." rather than "born in..." or "age..." It is
almost like the CB'ers invention of a new language that went with their
somewhat suspect operating procedures..."breaker breaker..." and so on.

5. I don't find the use of macros offensive, and many many of my
PSK QSOs go on from there to more meaningful exchanges -- it is a
wonderful mode for ragchewing -- but I WISH people would give some
thought to their macros when they prepare them.

John Ragle -- W1ZI

=====

On 7/19/2011 1:21 PM, Phil Kane wrote:

> On 7/19/2011 9:47 AM, Larry A. Waler wrote:
>> Many older-model hams would say KN means "over to you specifically, no
>> breakers please"!
> That's how I interpret it. What gets me is the use of "CW"
> prosigns on digital modes (PSK, for instance) where either
> plain language or "usually-accepted" TTY procedures would be
> preferable.
>
> For example - I have the devil's own time trying to convince my
> fellow PSK net colleagues to send a few<LF/CR> at the
> beginning and end of a transmission so there's a visual break
> between that and the next station's transmissions. We used to
> do that with torn-tape traffic.

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KENT TRIMBLE

Re: KN

In reply to this post by Larry Walker

I completely agree with Larry . . .

K means "over" (to the station I am in contact with, and breakers are
welcome)

KN means "over" (to the station I am in contact with, and breakers are
NOT welcome).

Our Mid-MO Amateur Radio Club teaches its CW students (3 classes every
Saturday morning) that "K" is the norm and should be used in 99% of
their QSOs, with "KN" being the rare exception and used in the remaining
1% where propagation or message content requires it.

Over the last decade or so those two prosigns got erroneously reversed
in a revision of an ARRL publication which has perpetuated the error
ever since.

73,

Kent Trimble, K9ZTV
Jefferson City, Missouri

On 7/19/2011 11:47 AM, Larry A. Waler wrote:

> Many older-model hams would say KN means "over to you specifically, no
> breakers please"!
>
>
>
> KW4A ex K0IET ex KN0IET
>
> Larry
>
> Licensed sinced 1956

Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy

Re: KN

In reply to this post by Larry Walker

Larry,

As an "older-model" ham I have always understood KN to mean just what you
wrote.

Back in the Jurassic when I was first licensed (1946) in a country which was
still quite "rare" at the time (VQ8) it was not necessary to use KN, because
in my experience most people in those days would not break in nor call until
one had signed with the station being worked - a far cry from the brawls one
hears these days!

The use of INT before a Q signal was also standard practice if asking a
question, e.g. INT QRM, but sometimes for example QRM IMI would be used.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD

On July 19, 2011 17:47 Z, Larry A. Waler KW4A wrote.

> Many older-model hams would say KN means "over to you specifically, no
> breakers please"!

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KENT TRIMBLE

Re: KN

In reply to this post by Larry Walker

Not to belabor my previous post, but to buttress it . . .

From "The Radio Amateur's Operating Manual, 3rd Edition, Copyright 1972
by ARRL" (with thanks to Mike, AB3AP):

Pages 8 and 9:

/K is the procedure signal which means "go ahead." It always has this
meaning when used by itself at the end of a transmission or during exchanges
of brief transmissions using break-in. It is always used after a CQ but
it is
not used when answering a CQ or calling any station with which contact has
not already been established. K is not usually preceded by any other
prosign.

KN is used during a QSO to invite the station being worked, and that
station alone, to transmit. It indicates that other stations are not
desired in
that QSO and is frequently used by DX stations to avoid calls from other
stations.

KN should always be honored. It is a serious breach of on-the-air
etiquette to call despite a KN. KN is properly sent as a single
character, as
the bar over the letters indicates, and not as two separate letters.

KN is not used after a CQ, unless the CQ is directional or informative.
"CQ CQ CQ DE W6QMO KN" is self-defeating and contradictory. After
a directional CQ however, it emphasizes that answers are desired only from
the place specified: "CQ NYC CQ NYC CQ NYC DE WBSLX KN."/

73,

Kent Trimble, K9ZTV
Jefferson City, MIssouri
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Nate Bargmann

Re: KN

In reply to this post by John Ragle

* On 2011 19 Jul 12:51 -0500, John Ragle wrote:
> 2. <LF/CR> is just good practice...so much of the first couple of
> exchanges in PSK is done by macro that one would think people would
> include the <LF/CR> a couple of times in their macro texts.

When more hams can write emails in complete sentences and with line
breaks I'll have hope that the same can translate to PSK and other digi
modes. Unfortunately, reading too many lists and forums leads me to
think that there is some stigma attached to using the <Enter> key.

> 4. Being an old ham (lightly cured since 1946) but relatively new
> to PSK (6-8 years) I am greatly amused by some of the things that
> PSK'ers do -- "created in..." rather than "born in..." or "age..." It is
> almost like the CB'ers invention of a new language that went with their
> somewhat suspect operating procedures..."breaker breaker..." and so on.

Chalk it up to a desire to stand out by their creativity, I suppose.
OTOH, how people (beyond amateurs) have a tendency to imitate the Rubber
Duck when they grab a microphone is also a bit puzzling. Apparently,
use of a two-way radio requires a certain type of voice and vocabulary.
Who knew?

73, de Nate N0NB >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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