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KPA-500 Features and Pricing

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Joe Word

KPA-500 Features and Pricing

I agree with Jack's comments below 100%. Sounds like the amp is way
over priced to me.

Joe N9VX
no K3 at this time, but thinking about another one.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It looks like Elecraft may be abandoning their traditional "most bang
for the buck" market position in favor of selling over priced "matching
accessories" to stupid yuppies.

Unlike the K3, a $2000 500W amp is not going to be in the "best value"
position in anyone's analysis, although I'm sure they will sell a few
to the "true believers".

Currently, used prices for ALS-600's run $800 to $900 and ALS-1300's
are showing up for sale at $1800 to $2000.

In my case, there is a finite amount of money available for radio
station enhancements. When I can buy a solid state MFJ for ~$1.50/watt
or an older no-tune ETO Alpha for ~$1.00/watt, a $4.00/watt Amp that's
principal virtue seems to be matching my K3, doesn't have a snow balls
chance in Hades of ever gracing my desk.

But maybe the rumored ridiculous price point is just a smoke screen and
the real product will show up with a more palatible price.

73 Jack KZ5A
K3 #4165
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pbunn

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

Kinda playing with the numbers there aren't you. Comparing the new rumored
Elecraft price to used equipment?

And IMHO - Used junk in the case of the MFJ? Have you seen any spec
comparisons yet.

Doesn't look like there is enough data yet to through Elecraft under the
bus?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Word" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 1:53 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA-500 Features and Pricing

>I agree with Jack's comments below 100%. Sounds like the amp is way
> over priced to me.
>
> Joe N9VX
> no K3 at this time, but thinking about another one.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> It looks like Elecraft may be abandoning their traditional "most bang
> for the buck" market position in favor of selling over priced "matching
> accessories" to stupid yuppies.
>
> Unlike the K3, a $2000 500W amp is not going to be in the "best value"
> position in anyone's analysis, although I'm sure they will sell a few
> to the "true believers".
>
> Currently, used prices for ALS-600's run $800 to $900 and ALS-1300's
> are showing up for sale at $1800 to $2000.
>
> In my case, there is a finite amount of money available for radio
> station enhancements. When I can buy a solid state MFJ for ~$1.50/watt
> or an older no-tune ETO Alpha for ~$1.00/watt, a $4.00/watt Amp that's
> principal virtue seems to be matching my K3, doesn't have a snow balls
> chance in Hades of ever gracing my desk.
>
> But maybe the rumored ridiculous price point is just a smoke screen and
> the real product will show up with a more palatible price.
>
> 73 Jack KZ5A
> K3 #4165
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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wayne burdick

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

Administrator

In reply to this post by Joe Word

All of our products are priced based on the cost of goods and on
recovering our cost of development over time. The KPA500 will be
fairly priced using these same criteria.

The KPA500 includes a built-in linear power supply, with a toroidal
transformer, to ensure no added transmit noise. There's no way to do
this cheaply. It's also an extremely compact amplifier, matching the
K3 in size, which was not easy. These and other features make for an
apples-and-oranges comparison to other amplifiers.

If the KPA500's unique qualities are not what you're looking for,
there are other alternatives at lower cost.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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n7ws

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

I hope you've factored in some profit.

--- On Thu, 9/9/10, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> All of our products are priced based
> on the cost of goods and on
> recovering our cost of development over time. The KPA500
> will be
> fairly priced using these same criteria.

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The Smiths

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

The only thing that is going to detour me from getting the KPA500, other than excessive price, is going to be the fact that it has no built in ATU. I could live with an external, but I would like it to be as nice as the one that is currently in the K3. That thing tunes in no time, and matches a coat hanger to 40 meters. I sure hope you include one Wayne! (or make it an option of course)

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 11:31:14 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 Features and Pricing
>
> All of our products are priced based on the cost of goods and on
> recovering our cost of development over time. The KPA500 will be
> fairly priced using these same criteria.
>
> The KPA500 includes a built-in linear power supply, with a toroidal
> transformer, to ensure no added transmit noise. There's no way to do
> this cheaply. It's also an extremely compact amplifier, matching the
> K3 in size, which was not easy. These and other features make for an
> apples-and-oranges comparison to other amplifiers.
>
> If the KPA500's unique qualities are not what you're looking for,
> there are other alternatives at lower cost.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Andy Wood

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Regarding the KPA500 internal power supply - is it actively regulated, or just rectified and filtered DC?

Andy VK4KY

Robert Friess

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

Andy,

The KPA500 power supply provides regulated outputs of -12, +12, and +5 volts
for control and switching and unregulated 60V for the power devices.

Bob, N6CM

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Andy Wood <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Regarding the KPA500 internal power supply - is it actively regulated, or
> just rectified and filtered DC?
>
> Andy VK4KY
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KPA-500-Features-and-Pricing-tp5515492p5516016.html
> Sent from the [QRO] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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Scott Ellington

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

On Sep 9, 2010, at 3:50 PM, Robert Friess wrote:

> unregulated 60V for the power devices.

That makes perfect sense. As with all vacuum tube amplifiers I'm aware of, regulated power is not necessary, and would significantly increase the cost, size, and weight of the power supply.

Scott K9MA

Scott Ellington
Madison, Wisconsin
USA

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Andy Wood

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

In reply to this post by Robert Friess

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the quick reply.

How do you think this unit would perform if powered from a smallish petrol generator, when the input voltage/frequency would vary quite a bit as the generator load varied with cw or ssb operation? The unregulated 60v supply for the PA devices is obviously my concern.

Andy VK4KY

ab2tc

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

Hi,

I am still moderately interested in this amplifer. The decision to go with a linear and perhaps even unregulated power supply built into this amplifier is a major disappointment to me. I can understand the decision from an engineering standpoint - nobody wants to to design a high power switcher - unless that is your sole line of business and expertise. Did Elecraft research the option of buying an OEM switch mode power supply? Could it conceivably be an option to offer the amp without a power supply and I will source my own? The added weight, inefficiency and from Elecraft's own writings cost associated with a linear power supply really bothers me. Switchers can and are made quiet these days.

AB2TC - Knut

Andy Wood wrote

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the quick reply.

How do you think this unit would perform if powered from a smallish petrol generator, when the input voltage/frequency would vary quite a bit as the generator load varied with cw or ssb operation? The unregulated 60v supply for the PA devices is obviously my concern.

Andy VK4KY

Robert Friess

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

In reply to this post by Andy Wood

Andy,

It depends on the definition of "quite a bit." The power supply is designed
for a minimum line frequency of 50Hz. Higher line frequency will cause no
harm. Low voltage input of 15% below nominal or so will start to reduce
power output. High voltage input above nominal of about 15% will cause a
fault condition in the amplifier.

Bob

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Andy Wood <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi Bob,
>
> Thanks for the quick reply.
>
> How do you think this unit would perform if powered from a smallish petrol
> generator, when the input voltage/frequency would vary quite a bit as the
> generator load varied with cw or ssb operation? The unregulated 60v supply
> for the PA devices is obviously my concern.
>
> Andy VK4KY
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KPA-500-Features-and-Pricing-tp5515492p5516161.html
> Sent from the [QRO] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Phil Salas

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

In reply to this post by ab2tc

"...The decision to go with a
linear and perhaps even unregulated power supply built into this amplifier
is a major disappointment to me...."

An unregulated linear power supply is very efficient and very simple. The
only advantage of a switcher is weight.

Phil - AD5X

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Andy Wood

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

"The only advantage of a switcher is weight."

I wouldn't say the *only* advantage. What about universal, wide input voltage/frequency range? I have some Meanwell 1500w DC supplies here that are 47-63Hz, 90-264VAC input. The switcher would also be regulated. A regulated supply to the PA will result in better overall IMD specs too.

Andy VK4KY

Phil Hystad-3

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

The only kind of amp I want to buy is a solid-state amp. I already own
a PW-1 that goes with my Icom 756 Pro III and I am choosing to keep that
and keep it with the Pro III and get another amp for the K3. I will entertain
the KPA500 for any price under $2000 and consider the merits and features
and trade offs when it is available and the price when it comes. I think my
alternative is Tokyo Hi-Power. I am not interested in the MFJ amplifiers.
So, I would like it to be cheaper too but not so cheap that it is a business
risk to Elecraft.

phil,
K7PEH

On Sep 9, 2010, at 11:31 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> All of our products are priced based on the cost of goods and on
> recovering our cost of development over time. The KPA500 will be
> fairly priced using these same criteria.
>
> The KPA500 includes a built-in linear power supply, with a toroidal
> transformer, to ensure no added transmit noise. There's no way to do
> this cheaply. It's also an extremely compact amplifier, matching the
> K3 in size, which was not easy. These and other features make for an
> apples-and-oranges comparison to other amplifiers.
>
> If the KPA500's unique qualities are not what you're looking for,
> there are other alternatives at lower cost.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

pbunn

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

In reply to this post by Scott Ellington

Unregulated is not a problem if it is a good solid stiff supply. The MFJ is
certainly not.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Ellington" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 Features and Pricing

>
> On Sep 9, 2010, at 3:50 PM, Robert Friess wrote:
>
>> unregulated 60V for the power devices.
>
>
> That makes perfect sense. As with all vacuum tube amplifiers I'm aware
> of, regulated power is not necessary, and would significantly increase the
> cost, size, and weight of the power supply.
>
> Scott K9MA
>
> Scott Ellington
> Madison, Wisconsin
> USA
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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G3TCT

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

In reply to this post by pbunn

I currently use an Acom 1000 amp on 80 and 6m and a homebrew
semiconductor amp (160W o/p) on 4m.
The features I really like about solid state amps is their efficiency
(50-60%), and zero warm up time. I often find on 6m that I can hear
interesting but very weak dx that needs the amp, but I have to wait
nearly 3 minutes for it to warm up, by which time the dx may have
disappeared. By contrast the solid state PA takes no current on standby
and is available instantly.

My 2p worth
Graham
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Mike Reublin

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

Graham,
I have an ACOM 1000 also, and I like it a lot. I have developed a way to beat the
problem of missing a QSO because of the warm up time. I turn the ACOM on when I
first come into the shack.... :-P

73, Mike NF4L

On 9/10/2010 8:53 AM, Graham Kimbell G3TCT wrote:

> I currently use an Acom 1000 amp on 80 and 6m and a homebrew
> semiconductor amp (160W o/p) on 4m.
> The features I really like about solid state amps is their efficiency
> (50-60%), and zero warm up time. I often find on 6m that I can hear
> interesting but very weak dx that needs the amp, but I have to wait
> nearly 3 minutes for it to warm up, by which time the dx may have
> disappeared. By contrast the solid state PA takes no current on standby
> and is available instantly.
>
> My 2p worth
> Graham
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Don Cunningham

Re: KPA-500 Features and Pricing

Mike,
That's the way I handle my Alpha 8410's waiting period to come on, I just
let her idle while I tune around, hi. As for the KPA-500, perhaps this is a
"module", and Elecraft will devise a means of combining 2 of them, so we can
put one on each side and still be a balanced, 1kw+, good looking station
(wink, wink), hi.
73,
Don, WB5HAK

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