Elecraft

KPA-500 fan noise

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Wes (N7WS)

Re: KPA-500 fan noise

Hooray!

BTW, what is the replacement fan you used in your K3?

Wes N7WS

On 6/3/2014 7:19 AM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:

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Bill-3

Re: KPA-500 fan noise

In reply to this post by Phil Wheeler-2

I rag chew - long winded rag chew - and have never been insulted by the
fan noises from the K3 or the KPA500. The noisiest they ever get is when
I turn the KPA500 off - as it drains the power supply down. Certainly
nothing like my previous tube type amp - providing over the air fan
noise. The fan is set to NOR.

My K-Line is on a computer desk like set of shelves - open to the back
and about 18 inches from the wall. Perhaps the spacing to the wall has
something to do with my lack of fan noise - also providing uncluttered
fresh air for cooling.

Bill W2BLC K-Line

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KB9WMJ

Re: K3 MARS mod, showing a virus

In reply to this post by Mike Reublin

I got a response finally yesterday, and they resent the mod, but it still
comes back saying it has the same virus. Elecraft said it was because it's
a EXE file, and renamed it a XEX file, but that didn't seem to matter to the
AVG Antivirus.

This is coming directly from Elecraft, and also believe it is a false
positive, but was curious if anyone else has expeirienced this as well.

Keith
KB9WMJ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Reublin" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Elecraft List" <>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 MARS mod, showing a virus

Most likely a false positive. Do you know which of the Elecraft guys wrote
it? Did they email it to you or did you download it?

Contact Elecraft again. It's not like them to be non responsive. Then notify
AVG so they can correct their software.

73, Mike NF4L

On Jun 2, 2014, at 5:21 PM, <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Has anyone else encountered this?
>
> My AVG virus S/W is saying that my K3 MARS mod (which I have not used yet)
> contains the Win32/DH virus.
>
> I e-mailed Elecraft a week ago, but got no response.
>
>
> Keith
> KB9WMJ
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: K3 MARS mod, showing a virus

Administrator

In reply to this post by Mike Reublin

Its a false positive. We see these from time to time with all of the Virus
detectors.

Eric
elecraft.com

On 6/3/2014 3:14 AM, Mike Reublin wrote:

> Most likely a false positive. Do you know which of the Elecraft guys wrote it? Did they email it to you or did you download it?
>
> Contact Elecraft again. It's not like them to be non responsive. Then notify AVG so they can correct their software.
>
> 73, Mike NF4L
>
> On Jun 2, 2014, at 5:21 PM, <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone else encountered this?
>>
>> My AVG virus S/W is saying that my K3 MARS mod (which I have not used yet)
>> contains the Win32/DH virus.
>>
>> I e-mailed Elecraft a week ago, but got no response.
>>
>>
>> Keith
>> KB9WMJ
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Scott Manthe-2

Re: K3 MARS mod, showing a virus

In reply to this post by KB9WMJ

I've had a couple of other amateur files show false positives for
various viruses. The "science" of virus protection is as much art as
science. This is one of many examples.

73,
Scott, N9AA

On 6/3/14 12:10 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

Jim Brown-10

Re: KPA-500 fan noise

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

On 6/3/2014 7:19 AM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
> Replacing the fans was a worthwhile improvement and made copy easier.

Something does not compute. The fan in my KPA500 is pretty quiet on RX,
and only gets loud during long transmissions, continuing for a short
time (a few seconds) after that. How does a fan that is noisy only on TX
make copy difficult on RX?

Another thing that doesn't compute is that a lot of the noise I'm
hearing is air flow. Perhaps the replacement fan is running slower,
which would reduce air flow, which would reduce cooling. Again, I would
approach all of this with great caution. Cooling of power devices is as
important an element of the design of amplifier as any of the rest of
the circuitry.

I think it's a mistake to think that we hear the fan because it's a
"cheap" or inferior one. We hear it because it's working.

73, Jim K9YC

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k6dgw

Re: K3 MARS mod, showing a virus

In reply to this post by KB9WMJ

On 6/3/2014 9:10 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> I got a response finally yesterday, and they resent the mod, but it still
> comes back saying it has the same virus. Elecraft said it was because it's
> a EXE file, and renamed it a XEX file, but that didn't seem to matter to the
> AVG Antivirus.

That may make a difference to some email clients when an attachment ends
in .exe but I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter to anti-virus software.
>
> This is coming directly from Elecraft, and also believe it is a false
> positive, but was curious if anyone else has expeirienced this as well.

The next to latest version of AVG told me the Microchip C-18 compiler
was infected. They fixed it in the next update.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: KPA-500 fan noise

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

As I stated I do Not have a KPA500 It is in the future plans but I need to get some antenna work done first.

As I stated I replaced the Fans in my K3

I went with the Noctua brand because they are known for making a quality fan that is very quiet.

New Fan: Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX
Airflow: 17 cfm (29.2 m3h converted to cfm)

Noise: 19.3db
Speed: 3000 RPM (at 12 v)

Static Pressure: 2.18 mm
Current: 120 mA (.12 A)

Original Fan: UTEC AT6015L-12L2B-ND2

Airflow: 15.4 cmf at 24.8db

Noise 24.8
Speed 3000 RPM (at 12v)

Static Pressure: 2.21mm
Current 100 mA

Yes I hear the air rushing but not the bearings

________________________________
From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 fan noise

On 6/3/2014 7:19 AM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
> Replacing the fans was a worthwhile improvement and made copy easier.

Something does not compute. The fan in my KPA500 is pretty quiet on RX,
and only gets loud during long transmissions, continuing for a short
time (a few seconds) after that. How does a fan that is noisy only on TX
make copy difficult on RX?

Another thing that doesn't compute is that a lot of the noise I'm
hearing is air flow. Perhaps the replacement fan is running slower,
which would reduce air flow, which would reduce cooling. Again, I would
approach all of this with great caution. Cooling of power devices is as
important an element of the design of amplifier as any of the rest of
the circuitry.

I think it's a mistake to think that we hear the fan because it's a
"cheap" or inferior one. We hear it because it's working.

73, Jim K9YC

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John W. Tipka

Re: K3 MARS mod, showing a virus

In reply to this post by KB9WMJ

Keith,

A similar thing happened to me with Roy Lewallen's EZNEC V.5.0 antenna
modeling
software. AVG reports it as containing a virus! As such, it is does
not, but again a
false positive on the part of AVG. Roy related via a telephone
conversation that he
had to change the way he compiled the software to reduce the odds of a
false positive
being reported by various AV software.

Whose antivirus software does one use these days? I don't know. AVG gets
it wrong,
and so does McAfee, Avast and Norton . Maybe one of them will get it
right someday.

John W8UL

On 6/3/2014 12:10 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> I got a response finally yesterday, and they resent the mod, but it still
> comes back saying it has the same virus. Elecraft said it was because it's
> a EXE file, and renamed it a XEX file, but that didn't seem to matter to the
> AVG Antivirus.
>
> This is coming directly from Elecraft, and also believe it is a false
> positive, but was curious if anyone else has expeirienced this as well.
>
> Keith
> KB9WMJ
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Reublin" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Elecraft List" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 5:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 MARS mod, showing a virus
>
>
> Most likely a false positive. Do you know which of the Elecraft guys wrote
> it? Did they email it to you or did you download it?
>
> Contact Elecraft again. It's not like them to be non responsive. Then notify
> AVG so they can correct their software.
>
> 73, Mike NF4L
>
> On Jun 2, 2014, at 5:21 PM, <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone else encountered this?
>>
>> My AVG virus S/W is saying that my K3 MARS mod (which I have not used yet)
>> contains the Win32/DH virus.
>>
>> I e-mailed Elecraft a week ago, but got no response.
>>
>>
>> Keith
>> KB9WMJ
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3955/7614 - Release Date: 06/03/14
>
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: KPA-500 fan noise

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Do you have the full design parameters for the KPA500 cooling, air flow
required at specific temperatures to protect the MOSFETs, current and
voltage capable of being delivered by the KPA500 circuits to the fan at
each of 3 fan speeds? I certainly do not have those parameters. That
information would be required to make any intelligent swap of the fan.

I would not know what parameters would qualify a fan to be of higher
quality than what is in there already- Greater air flow usually means
more noise, and could mean more current draw.
A lower fan speed would be less noisy, but would likely reduce the air
flow and cause greater heating of the MOSFETs.

I do not think changing the fan would be a task to be taken lightly,
there are too many factors at play.

Sending the KPA500 back to Elecraft because the 'new improved' fan
needed more current than the KPA500 could supply, or sending it back to
change the PA sandwich after installing a slower fan (or one with a
lower blade pitch) that was more quiet, but failed to move enough air
could become an expensive task.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/3/2014 10:19 AM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:

> I would tend to believe that replacing the cheap fans with
> higher quality fans would be a improvement in design.
>
> If the K3 cannot handle what little extra current draw the fans have
> then I would certainly question the well engineered aspect of it.
>
> As in any product cost is a factor and I'm sure Elecraft
> has to weigh the cost associated with various parts.
>
> For many the noise will not bother them for others it will so for the ones
> who do find the additional noise bothersome they can simply swap out
> the fans for a higher quality fan and enjoy the reduction in fan noise.
>
> To my ears (and I'm partially deaf from when I was in the Navy) the stock
> fans in the K3 had a grating sound that added to the background noise.
> Replacing the fans was a worthwhile improvement and made copy easier.
>
> I'm not afraid of improving a design where there is room for improvement.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 11:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 fan noise
>
>
> On 6/2/2014 7:56 AM, AG0N-3055 wrote:
>>> You could always try replacing the fan with a quieter fan.
>> I would consider that myself, but only with one recommended by the good people at Elecraft.
> It is generally a bad idea to try to re-engineer a product, especially
> one that is well designed. In this case, I would consider it a really
> bad idea.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: KPA-500 fan noise

Some of the responses here really make me shake my head.

Have fun. I learned long ago to not live in fear

________________________________
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 fan noise

Do you have the full design parameters for the KPA500 cooling, air flow
required at specific temperatures to protect the MOSFETs, current and
voltage capable of being delivered by the KPA500 circuits to the fan at
each of 3 fan speeds? I certainly do not have those parameters. That
information would be required to make any intelligent swap of the fan.

I would not know what parameters would qualify a fan to be of higher
quality than what is in there already- Greater air flow usually means
more noise, and could mean more current draw.
A lower fan speed would be less noisy, but would likely reduce the air
flow and cause greater heating of the MOSFETs.

I do not think changing the fan would be a task to be taken lightly,
there are too many factors at play.

Sending the KPA500 back to Elecraft because the 'new improved' fan
needed more current than the KPA500 could supply, or sending it back to
change the PA sandwich after installing a slower fan (or one with a
lower blade pitch) that was more quiet, but failed to move enough air
could become an expensive task.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/3/2014 10:19 AM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:

>

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Alan Bloom

Re: K3 MARS mod, showing a virus

In reply to this post by John W. Tipka

> Whose antivirus software does one use these days?

I'll keep this short since it's off-topic.

I have used Trend Micro Titanium anti-virus for years. I like it
because it has a small footprint: it doesn't hog computer resources and
doesn't keep getting in your face like Norton and some of the others.
I've never had it flag a good file as bad, but of course there is no way
of knowing if it is trading off security for convenience.

It's also cheap.

Alan N1AL

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Jim Brown-10

Re: KPA-500 fan noise

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

On 6/3/2014 7:11 PM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
> I learned long ago to not live in fear

I learned long ago that many problems are far more complex than they
appear.

73, Jim K9YC
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Jim Brown-10

Re: KPA-500 fan noise

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Harry,

Harry,

I didn't see this this email until just now -- it got stuck in my spam
filter. The subject line says KPA-500, so that's what I was talking about.

From what you've written here, it does, indeed, sound like you/ve done
a pretty good engineering job.

73, Jim K9YC

On 6/3/2014 12:17 PM, Harry Yingst wrote:

> As I stated I do Not have a KPA500 It is in the future plans but I
> need to get some antenna work done first.
>
> As I stated I replaced the Fans in my K3
>
> I went with the Noctua brand because they are known for making a
> quality fan that is very quiet.
>
>
> New Fan: Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX
> Airflow: 17 cfm (29.2 m3h converted to cfm)
> Noise: 19.3db
> Speed: 3000 RPM (at 12 v)
> Static Pressure: 2.18 mm
> Current: 120 mA (.12 A)
>
> Original Fan: UTEC AT6015L-12L2B-ND2
> Airflow: 15.4 cmf at 24.8db
> Noise 24.8
> Speed 3000 RPM (at 12v)
> Static Pressure: 2.21mm
> Current 100 mA
>
> Yes I hear the air rushing but not the bearings
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 3, 2014 2:21 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 fan noise
>
> On 6/3/2014 7:19 AM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
> > Replacing the fans was a worthwhile improvement and made copy easier.
>
> Something does not compute. The fan in my KPA500 is pretty quiet on RX,
> and only gets loud during long transmissions, continuing for a short
> time (a few seconds) after that. How does a fan that is noisy only on TX
> make copy difficult on RX?
>
> Another thing that doesn't compute is that a lot of the noise I'm
> hearing is air flow. Perhaps the replacement fan is running slower,
> which would reduce air flow, which would reduce cooling. Again, I would
> approach all of this with great caution. Cooling of power devices is as
> important an element of the design of amplifier as any of the rest of
> the circuitry.
>
> I think it's a mistake to think that we hear the fan because it's a
> "cheap" or inferior one. We hear it because it's working.
>
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/>
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>

John Cooper

Re: K3 MARS mod, showing a virus

In reply to this post by KB9WMJ

I use the free microsoft one. I also keep malwarebyte and rkill handy if needed.

Sent from my Cricket smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Alan Bloom <[hidden email]>
Date: 06/03/2014 21:20 (GMT-06:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 MARS mod, showing a virus

> Whose antivirus software does one use these days?

I'll keep this short since it's off-topic.

I have used Trend Micro Titanium anti-virus for years. I like it
because it has a small footprint: it doesn't hog computer resources and
doesn't keep getting in your face like Norton and some of the others.
I've never had it flag a good file as bad, but of course there is no way
of knowing if it is trading off security for convenience.

It's also cheap.

Alan N1AL

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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John Cooper

Re: KPA-500 fan noise

In reply to this post by James Rogers

And I just say what could possibly go wrong? Lol

Sent from my Cricket smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
Date: 06/03/2014 21:43 (GMT-06:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 fan noise

On 6/3/2014 7:11 PM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
> I learned long ago to not live in fear

I learned long ago that many problems are far more complex than they
appear.

73, Jim K9YC
______________________________________________________________
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Phil Hystad-3

Re: K3 MARS mod, showing a virus

In reply to this post by John Cooper

I don't use any antivirus software and haven't in over 10 years. Never had a virus or a malware problem of any sort during this time.

73, phil, K7PEH

On Jun 4, 2014, at 7:25 AM, John Cooper <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I use the free microsoft one. I also keep malwarebyte and rkill handy if needed.
>
>
> Sent from my Cricket smartphone
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Alan Bloom <[hidden email]>
> Date: 06/03/2014 21:20 (GMT-06:00)
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 MARS mod, showing a virus
>
>> Whose antivirus software does one use these days?
>
> I'll keep this short since it's off-topic.
>
> I have used Trend Micro Titanium anti-virus for years. I like it
> because it has a small footprint: it doesn't hog computer resources and
> doesn't keep getting in your face like Norton and some of the others.
> I've never had it flag a good file as bad, but of course there is no way
> of knowing if it is trading off security for convenience.
>
> It's also cheap.
>
> Alan N1AL
>
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Grant Youngman

Re: K3 MARS mod, showing a virus

That’s like claiming those 4 packs of Camel non-filters and 2 5ths of Jack a day haven’t caused any problems … yet … ;-)

On Jun 4, 2014, at 9:48 AM, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't use any antivirus software and haven't in over 10 years. Never had a virus or a malware problem of any sort during this time.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>

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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: K3 MARS mod, showing a virus

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

You are very luck, Phil -- assuming you run
Windows. I just spent three days fixing a
neighbor's Win7 computer that was full of trojans,
viruses and malware. I *think* finally got it.
He, also, had no anti-virus software.

I installed a (free) virus scanner and an
annit-malware program so he should be OK. I have
four instances of Windows (one is 8.1) and do the
same on mine.

Mac OS X seems to be another story; my two Macs
have never had a virus or malware problem

Phil W7OX

On 6/4/14, 7:48 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:
> I don't use any antivirus software and haven't in over 10 years. Never had a virus or a malware problem of any sort during this time.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>

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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: K3 MARS mod, showing a virus

On 6/4/2014 8:18 AM, Phil Wheeler wrote:
> Mac OS X seems to be another story; my two Macs have never had a virus
> or malware problem
It's because Mac OS has a higher cost of 0wnership. Write a trojan for
Windows and you have an order of magnitude more machines to potentially
infect.

The last true "virus" I saw was in 2003. Everything I've seen since is
a Trojan, and somewhere in the last 3000 years we should have learned
not to bring the horse into our city.
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