Elecraft

KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

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Terry

KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

If the new Elecraft amp is indeed 1500 watts it might be worth considering that going from 500 to 1500 watts is only about 4.5 Db or less than 1 S-unit in signal strength. If I owned the KPA 500 it would be a hard sell to get me to move to ANY 1500 watt amp.

Respectfully,

Terry, N7TB
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Dr. William J. Schmidt, II

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

Well you might consider this. I do a lot of DXing from J6. Typically the
pile-ups are hundreds if not more people calling once it gets going. That 1
s-unit difference can mean the difference between working the DX or the band
going out before you do. It's personal, right? Kinda of reminds me of the
"I really don't need the horsepower of a corvette" argument. Yep, maybe you
don't and we all can't be driving corvettes. But having one SURE IS FUN!

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ

Owner - Operator
Big Signal Ranch - K9ZC
Staunton, Illinois

Owner - Operator
Villa Grand Piton - J68HZ
Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.
Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com
Like us on Facebook!

email: [hidden email]

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Terry
Brown
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 8:12 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

If the new Elecraft amp is indeed 1500 watts it might be worth considering
that going from 500 to 1500 watts is only about 4.5 Db or less than 1 S-unit
in signal strength. If I owned the KPA 500 it would be a hard sell to get
me to move to ANY 1500 watt amp.

Respectfully,

Terry, N7TB
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Scott Manthe-2

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

In reply to this post by Terry

One S-unit in a pile-up or on a noisy band can be a big deal. If all you
do is rag chew in low noise environments then maybe you wouldn't notice.
In the noise on the low bands or if you're trying to break a pile up,
that 4.5 dB means you're a lot louder than someone else. Whether that is
worth the price is up to the op to decide, but the myth that the 1KW
difference in power makes no difference is just that, a myth.

73,
Scott N9AA

On 4/20/17 9:12 PM, Terry Brown wrote:

> If the new Elecraft amp is indeed 1500 watts it might be worth considering that going from 500 to 1500 watts is only about 4.5 Db or less than 1 S-unit in signal strength. If I owned the KPA 500 it would be a hard sell to get me to move to ANY 1500 watt amp.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Terry, N7TB
> ______________________________________________________________
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w7aqk

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

In reply to this post by Terry

Terry and All,

Your view is shared by a lot of us, but not everyone. The hard core QRO
folks are having a euphoric experience right now. Christmas in April !
Well, I think it is great that their wishes seem to have been granted. I
suppose if all the stars lined up just right I could be one of them!
However, like you, I have some difficulty justifying the cost/benefit.
Also, I'd be hard pressed to make something like that work at this location.
So, I don't need to spend a lot of time lamenting not having a bigger amp,
and it really wouldn't help me "hear" any better. It is not insignificant
that it will cost almost 3 times as much to gain only slightly more than 1 S
unit. Then, when you factor in the question of "how often do I really need
that?", the justification becomes even more obscure to me. One thing is for
sure, a lot of electricians just got more work! I strongly suspect not
everyone is 220 V ready!

I think it is rather interesting how Elecraft has come to this point. Many
years ago, I saw first hand (at Pacificon) the two amps they had as
prototypes, one of which was "legal limit". Then they went silent for a
good while before coming out with just the 500 watt model. I thought that
was a very astute decision, but probably because it suited me perfectly. I
can only guess at how this strategy evolved. I actually expected this
bigger amp to come out earlier, but I do not second guess Elecraft on their
decision making. They seem to be pretty capable of making very good
decisions without my advice!!! The groundswell of interest in a bigger amp
has been hard to ignore, and obviously they didn't ignore it! Then Eric
tickles everyone's chain recently by asking "what would you want to see in a
big amp?"! That doesn't even meet the definition of "foreshadowing"! It
was more like "check your bank accounts folks!"

Elecraft has nearly mastered the art of stimulating expectations. Have you
noticed that, when something clearly doesn't fit their plans, they will
quash the conversation, but when it isn't so far fetched the silence is
deafening? I think they have as much fun doing this as they do designing
the stuff! I can almost hear them giggling as they put together that
cropped photo of the new amp! Anyway, put on your crash helmets and
protective gear at their booths in Visalia and Dayton. It's going to be
crowded!

O.K. Now what do we talk about???

Dave W7AQK

-----------------------------------------
From: Terry Brown <[hidden email]>

If the new Elecraft amp is indeed 1500 watts it might be worth considering
that going from 500 to 1500 watts is only about 4.5 Db or less than 1 S-unit
in signal strength. If I owned the KPA 500 it would be a hard sell to get
me to move to ANY 1500 watt amp.

Respectfully,

Terry, N7TB

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Kidder, George

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

In reply to this post by Dr. William J. Schmidt, II

And the reason you "need" the extra 1000 W is that the others in the
pileup are all running max power. A typical arms race, with tempers to
match.

George, W3HBM

On 4/20/2017 9:39 PM, Dr. William J. Schmidt, II wrote:

> Well you might consider this. I do a lot of DXing from J6. Typically the
> pile-ups are hundreds if not more people calling once it gets going. That 1
> s-unit difference can mean the difference between working the DX or the band
> going out before you do. It's personal, right? Kinda of reminds me of the
> "I really don't need the horsepower of a corvette" argument. Yep, maybe you
> don't and we all can't be driving corvettes. But having one SURE IS FUN!
>
>
> Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ
>
> Owner - Operator
> Big Signal Ranch - K9ZC
> Staunton, Illinois
>
> Owner - Operator
> Villa Grand Piton - J68HZ
> Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.
> Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com
> Like us on Facebook!
>
>
> email: [hidden email]
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Terry
> Brown
> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 8:12 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp
>
> If the new Elecraft amp is indeed 1500 watts it might be worth considering
> that going from 500 to 1500 watts is only about 4.5 Db or less than 1 S-unit
> in signal strength. If I owned the KPA 500 it would be a hard sell to get
> me to move to ANY 1500 watt amp.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Terry, N7TB
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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Roy Koeppe

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

Aboot:

"And the reason you "need" the extra 1000 W is that the others in the
pileup are all running max power. A typical arms race, with tempers to
match."

Apparently none of you here ragchews on 80M CW roundtables at sunrise times
during spring/summer thunderstorms seasons across the country! That's the
reason QRO was born...

73, Roy K6XK Iowa

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Rick WA6NHC-2

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

In reply to this post by w7aqk

No it is not insignificant but the price point is very acceptable if you
look at other similar amps, even better when you factor in the tuner
(repackaged KAT500? the range limits are similar). Then add in the
superior level of support that you'll get compared to most other
companies (and they're 'local' for US hams, another bonus). I've
already asked to be put on the notify list and I'll likely put the order
in at the first possible moment. Minor bonus for me is that I won't
have to pay CA taxes by the time it comes out (I'm leaving CA) saving me
almost 10%.

When you need it, you need it. You can always turn a KPA1500 down, but
when you're at max on a KPA500 and it isn't enough, it's over. If
you're a DX'er, that's a high frustration point because almost all
others striving for the rare one will be running full legal (or more).
Another 4.5 db may make that difference. Technique can only take you so
far, just as having power without technique can only take you so far.
Good on both counts means a higher success rate.

At some point in 'serious' ham life, the typical shack will be wired for
220-240V since it makes so many things simpler; that is a one time
expense. Either through fortune or planning, all the components I've
put up over the last ten years are capable of at least legal limit
(chokes, cables, wires etc) so I'm prepositioned for full QRO.

I smile when I see Wayne mention overhead... the devices are rated well
above 1500 watts (each) and simple math says that 240V @ 20 A is a LOT
of overhead space, even considering power supply efficiency losses
(which are small with good design). While I would have preferred seeing
more antenna ports (since I am used to the KAT500), it's not a deal
killer (my move means new antennas, I'll make them more resonant than my
current station). I'll probably do something along the lines that the
K3 ant 1 will be for HF and the second antenna port will be used for the
KPA500 on 6M, which is more than enough for meteor scatter or openings.
The KPA1500 port one will be 160/80M and port two for 40-10M (still
power limited on 60M, barefoot might be too much). That part is simple
stuff to figure out.... to be determined later.

I'm not concerned about the 15 db FCC limit with a K3 (life is too short
for QRP) because at each level, NONE of the amps in the K line chain are
being pushed to max, making IMD inherently MUCH lower. If at some point
Elecraft can add/bless an external device for feedback and
pre-distortion for the K3(s); that's even better. But in fairness, if
one is using a QRP rig, being able to jump to legal limit in one step is
a big deal.

The ONE feature that makes it for me is that ALL my station elements
will stay integrated; not so if another brand amp is used. This is HUGE
since I operate the station remotely when I'm on the road. Everything
'just works'; the operator isn't concerned about any aspect, just click
on the DX cluster spot (or net frequency) and everything is done except
making the contact. For the newer ops, it didn't used to be that way,
trust me, the integrated ability IS a BIG DEAL.

Well done Elecraft! It's what we've come to expect and that is why
we're faithful. Please pass the Kool Aid. ;-)

Rick nhc

On 4/21/2017 8:13 AM, w7aqk wrote:
>
> It is not insignificant that it will cost almost 3 times as much to
> gain only slightly more than 1 S unit. Then, when you factor in the
> question of "how often do I really need that?", the justification
> becomes even more obscure to me. One thing is for sure, a lot of
> electricians just got more work! I strongly suspect not everyone is
> 220 V ready!

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wayne burdick

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

Administrator

In reply to this post by Roy Koeppe

Our philosophy at Elecraft is to cover both ends of the spectrum. Figuratively speaking.

When the bands are open, the birds are singing, and the sun is shining, you’ll find us outdoors using a hand-held KX2 at 10 watts with a whip. But late at night, when propagation is in the tank and that rare DX station peeks over the horizon for a once-in-a-lifetime fleeting moment, seconds count and size really does matter. At these times, we flip the big switch.

Wayne
N6KR

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:02 AM, Roy Koeppe <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Aboot:
>
> "And the reason you "need" the extra 1000 W is that the others in the
> pileup are all running max power. A typical arms race, with tempers to
> match."
>
>
> Apparently none of you here ragchews on 80M CW roundtables at sunrise times during spring/summer thunderstorms seasons across the country! That's the reason QRO was born...
>
> 73, Roy K6XK Iowa
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Fred Smith-2

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

Wayne I'm a bit late on this thread but will the cost be in the $5-6K range?

73,
Fred/N0AZZ
K3 Ser # 6730--KX3 # 5210--K2/100 # 6470-KAT100
P3/SVGA--KAT500--W2
Amps Elecraft KPA500 HF/6m--Alpha's 9500 HF--87A HF--Mirage B-5030-G 300+w--(2) B-5016-G's 165w 2m

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 11:31 AM
To: Roy Koeppe
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

Our philosophy at Elecraft is to cover both ends of the spectrum. Figuratively speaking.

When the bands are open, the birds are singing, and the sun is shining, you’ll find us outdoors using a hand-held KX2 at 10 watts with a whip. But late at night, when propagation is in the tank and that rare DX station peeks over the horizon for a once-in-a-lifetime fleeting moment, seconds count and size really does matter. At these times, we flip the big switch.

Wayne
N6KR

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:02 AM, Roy Koeppe <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Aboot:
>
> "And the reason you "need" the extra 1000 W is that the others in the
> pileup are all running max power. A typical arms race, with tempers
> to match."
>
>
> Apparently none of you here ragchews on 80M CW roundtables at sunrise times during spring/summer thunderstorms seasons across the country! That's the reason QRO was born...
>
> 73, Roy K6XK Iowa
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]

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wayne burdick

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

Administrator

Hi Fred,

$5995, complete with internal ATU and external, lightweight switching power supply. See:

http://www.elecraft.com/KPA1500/KPA1500.htm

I might point out that only Elecraft offers a legal-limit amp with a palindromic price tag :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:56 AM, Fred Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Wayne I'm a bit late on this thread but will the cost be in the $5-6K range?
>
>
> 73,
> Fred/N0AZZ
> K3 Ser # 6730--KX3 # 5210--K2/100 # 6470-KAT100
> P3/SVGA--KAT500--W2
> Amps Elecraft KPA500 HF/6m--Alpha's 9500 HF--87A HF--Mirage B-5030-G 300+w--(2) B-5016-G's 165w 2m
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 11:31 AM
> To: Roy Koeppe
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp
>
> Our philosophy at Elecraft is to cover both ends of the spectrum. Figuratively speaking.
>
> When the bands are open, the birds are singing, and the sun is shining, you’ll find us outdoors using a hand-held KX2 at 10 watts with a whip. But late at night, when propagation is in the tank and that rare DX station peeks over the horizon for a once-in-a-lifetime fleeting moment, seconds count and size really does matter. At these times, we flip the big switch.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:02 AM, Roy Koeppe <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Aboot:
>>
>> "And the reason you "need" the extra 1000 W is that the others in the
>> pileup are all running max power. A typical arms race, with tempers
>> to match."
>>
>>
>> Apparently none of you here ragchews on 80M CW roundtables at sunrise times during spring/summer thunderstorms seasons across the country! That's the reason QRO was born...
>>
>> 73, Roy K6XK Iowa
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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>
>

rich hurd WC3T

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

In reply to this post by Fred Smith-2

Intro price he said is $5995.

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Fred Smith <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Wayne I'm a bit late on this thread but will the cost be in the $5-6K
> range?
>
>
> 73,
> Fred/N0AZZ
> K3 Ser # 6730--KX3 # 5210--K2/100 # 6470-KAT100
> P3/SVGA--KAT500--W2
> Amps Elecraft KPA500 HF/6m--Alpha's 9500 HF--87A HF--Mirage B-5030-G
> 300+w--(2) B-5016-G's 165w 2m
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Wayne Burdick
> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 11:31 AM
> To: Roy Koeppe
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp
>
> Our philosophy at Elecraft is to cover both ends of the spectrum.
> Figuratively speaking.
>
> When the bands are open, the birds are singing, and the sun is shining,
> you’ll find us outdoors using a hand-held KX2 at 10 watts with a whip. But
> late at night, when propagation is in the tank and that rare DX station
> peeks over the horizon for a once-in-a-lifetime fleeting moment, seconds
> count and size really does matter. At these times, we flip the big switch.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
> > On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:02 AM, Roy Koeppe <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Aboot:
> >
> > "And the reason you "need" the extra 1000 W is that the others in the
> > pileup are all running max power. A typical arms race, with tempers
> > to match."
> >
> >
> > Apparently none of you here ragchews on 80M CW roundtables at sunrise
> times during spring/summer thunderstorms seasons across the country! That's
> the reason QRO was born...
> >
> > 73, Roy K6XK Iowa
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> > [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

--
73 (or 72 for the QRP folks),
Rich Hurd / WC3T
Northampton County RACES
EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988 Grid: *FN20is*
40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W
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Fred Smith-2

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

In reply to this post by Terry

Very competitive price for the quality of amp.
73,Fred/N0AZZ
-------- Original message --------From: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> Date: 4/21/17 12:00 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Fred Smith <[hidden email]> Cc: Roy Koeppe <[hidden email]>, Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp
Hi Fred,

$5995, complete with internal ATU and external, lightweight switching power supply. See:

http://www.elecraft.com/KPA1500/KPA1500.htm

I might point out that only Elecraft offers a legal-limit amp with a palindromic price tag :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR

Dr. William J. Schmidt, II

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

In reply to this post by Kidder, George

Ahhhhh! Someone gets it!

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ

Owner - Operator
Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC
Staunton, Illinois

Owner – Operator
Villa Grand Piton - J68HZ
Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.
Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com

email: [hidden email]

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:21 AM, GWK <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> And the reason you "need" the extra 1000 W is that the others in the pileup are all running max power. A typical arms race, with tempers to match.
>
> George, W3HBM
>
>> On 4/20/2017 9:39 PM, Dr. William J. Schmidt, II wrote:
>> Well you might consider this. I do a lot of DXing from J6. Typically the
>> pile-ups are hundreds if not more people calling once it gets going. That 1
>> s-unit difference can mean the difference between working the DX or the band
>> going out before you do. It's personal, right? Kinda of reminds me of the
>> "I really don't need the horsepower of a corvette" argument. Yep, maybe you
>> don't and we all can't be driving corvettes. But having one SURE IS FUN!
>>
>>
>> Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ
>>
>> Owner - Operator
>> Big Signal Ranch - K9ZC
>> Staunton, Illinois
>>
>> Owner - Operator
>> Villa Grand Piton - J68HZ
>> Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.
>> Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com
>> Like us on Facebook!
>>
>>
>> email: [hidden email]
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Terry
>> Brown
>> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 8:12 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Elecraft] KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp
>>
>> If the new Elecraft amp is indeed 1500 watts it might be worth considering
>> that going from 500 to 1500 watts is only about 4.5 Db or less than 1 S-unit

Edward R Cole

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

In reply to this post by Terry

Congrats to all who have wanted a KPA1500 (I'm not currently a prospect):

Interesting misconceptions already "flying"
"1500w cost three times 500w"

KPA1500 with internal tuner = $5995
KPA500+KAT500 = $2684.95*
5995/2684.95 = 2.23
*April special price

Power requirement 240vac @ 20A = 4800w
But likely the amp will draw 1500w/0.7 = 2143w (or so) plus maybe
200-300w for solid-state control ckts
call it 2400w in round numbers or 240v @ 10A (just my guess)

My 6m 1000w PA draws 50A @ 50v = 2500w (40% eff. with 16 transistors)
My 2m-8877 1400w PA draws 750ma @ 3700v = 2775w (50% eff. but with
tired old tube)

20A is a convenient 240v value since breakers for that are readily
available; I ran about 45-feet of No. 8 wiring to bring 240vac to my
shack where I use a 60A breaker box with a 20A breaker (only tripped
a couple times in several years useage - HV flashover & HV
transformer failure).

I ran my own 240v run as I tired of waiting five months for the $700
Electrician to show up. I think the 4 cond. No. 8 cable ran about
$1.50/foot plus costs for 30A 240v twist lock connectors/outlets &
60A utility box with three breakers. I see 2v drop on 240vac under
load of the 8877.

KPA1500 nice design using separate 50v switching PS. Many new ham
radio PA's coming out that use 50v so this could be multi-use PS. I
would like a 2m 1500w sspa using LDMOS to replace the 8877 &
HVPS. Not looking for that from Elecraft (I will probably buy a kit
from W6PQL).

PS: if I were in market for HF QRO the KPA1500 would be my choice! I
finally upgraded to the KXPA100+KXAT100 for my HF/6m needs (driven by
either KX3 or K3/10).

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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Nr4c

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

In reply to this post by w7aqk

"Christmas in "April" think not.
Note they aren't taking orders yet! Just a list of interested potential buyers.

My timeline:
Orders-late Dec ( New Years Eve)
Ship--April 2018

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 11:13 AM, w7aqk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Terry and All,
>
> Your view is shared by a lot of us, but not everyone. The hard core QRO folks are having a euphoric experience right now. Christmas in April ! Well, I think it is great that their wishes seem to have been granted. I suppose if all the stars lined up just right I could be one of them! However, like you, I have some difficulty justifying the cost/benefit. Also, I'd be hard pressed to make something like that work at this location. So, I don't need to spend a lot of time lamenting not having a bigger amp, and it really wouldn't help me "hear" any better. It is not insignificant that it will cost almost 3 times as much to gain only slightly more than 1 S unit. Then, when you factor in the question of "how often do I really need that?", the justification becomes even more obscure to me. One thing is for sure, a lot of electricians just got more work! I strongly suspect not everyone is 220 V ready!
>
> I think it is rather interesting how Elecraft has come to this point. Many years ago, I saw first hand (at Pacificon) the two amps they had as prototypes, one of which was "legal limit". Then they went silent for a good while before coming out with just the 500 watt model. I thought that was a very astute decision, but probably because it suited me perfectly. I can only guess at how this strategy evolved. I actually expected this bigger amp to come out earlier, but I do not second guess Elecraft on their decision making. They seem to be pretty capable of making very good decisions without my advice!!! The groundswell of interest in a bigger amp has been hard to ignore, and obviously they didn't ignore it! Then Eric tickles everyone's chain recently by asking "what would you want to see in a big amp?"! That doesn't even meet the definition of "foreshadowing"! It was more like "check your bank accounts folks!"
>
> Elecraft has nearly mastered the art of stimulating expectations. Have you noticed that, when something clearly doesn't fit their plans, they will quash the conversation, but when it isn't so far fetched the silence is deafening? I think they have as much fun doing this as they do designing the stuff! I can almost hear them giggling as they put together that cropped photo of the new amp! Anyway, put on your crash helmets and protective gear at their booths in Visalia and Dayton. It's going to be crowded!
>
> O.K. Now what do we talk about???
>
> Dave W7AQK
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> From: Terry Brown <[hidden email]>
>
>
> If the new Elecraft amp is indeed 1500 watts it might be worth considering that going from 500 to 1500 watts is only about 4.5 Db or less than 1 S-unit in signal strength. If I owned the KPA 500 it would be a hard sell to get me to move to ANY 1500 watt amp.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Terry, N7TB
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

wayne burdick

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

Administrator

Waaaay sooner than that, but don't quote me ;).

Wayne

----
http://www.elecraft.com

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 1:12 PM, Nr4c <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> "Christmas in "April" think not.
> Note they aren't taking orders yet! Just a list of interested potential buyers.
>
> My timeline:
> Orders-late Dec ( New Years Eve)
> Ship--April 2018
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
>
>
>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 11:13 AM, w7aqk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Terry and All,
>>
>> Your view is shared by a lot of us, but not everyone. The hard core QRO folks are having a euphoric experience right now. Christmas in April ! Well, I think it is great that their wishes seem to have been granted. I suppose if all the stars lined up just right I could be one of them! However, like you, I have some difficulty justifying the cost/benefit. Also, I'd be hard pressed to make something like that work at this location. So, I don't need to spend a lot of time lamenting not having a bigger amp, and it really wouldn't help me "hear" any better. It is not insignificant that it will cost almost 3 times as much to gain only slightly more than 1 S unit. Then, when you factor in the question of "how often do I really need that?", the justification becomes even more obscure to me. One thing is for sure, a lot of electricians just got more work! I strongly suspect not everyone is 220 V ready!
>>
>> I think it is rather interesting how Elecraft has come to this point. Many years ago, I saw first hand (at Pacificon) the two amps they had as prototypes, one of which was "legal limit". Then they went silent for a good while before coming out with just the 500 watt model. I thought that was a very astute decision, but probably because it suited me perfectly. I can only guess at how this strategy evolved. I actually expected this bigger amp to come out earlier, but I do not second guess Elecraft on their decision making. They seem to be pretty capable of making very good decisions without my advice!!! The groundswell of interest in a bigger amp has been hard to ignore, and obviously they didn't ignore it! Then Eric tickles everyone's chain recently by asking "what would you want to see in a big amp?"! That doesn't even meet the definition of "foreshadowing"! It was more like "check your bank accounts folks!"
>>
>> Elecraft has nearly mastered the art of stimulating expectations. Have you noticed that, when something clearly doesn't fit their plans, they will quash the conversation, but when it isn't so far fetched the silence is deafening? I think they have as much fun doing this as they do designing the stuff! I can almost hear them giggling as they put together that cropped photo of the new amp! Anyway, put on your crash helmets and protective gear at their booths in Visalia and Dayton. It's going to be crowded!
>>
>> O.K. Now what do we talk about???
>>
>> Dave W7AQK
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>> From: Terry Brown <[hidden email]>
>>
>>
>> If the new Elecraft amp is indeed 1500 watts it might be worth considering that going from 500 to 1500 watts is only about 4.5 Db or less than 1 S-unit in signal strength. If I owned the KPA 500 it would be a hard sell to get me to move to ANY 1500 watt amp.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Terry, N7TB
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bill K9YEQ

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

Ed,

You only missed the fact that the heaviest part is is < 22#'s. Wow, that is one of the biggest reasons I sold my THP 2.5kfx, I could barely lift it, not to mention THP is no longer in business. I haven't seen Elecraft's circuitry but with the two output devices, would seem earily similar. The design of the THP output is what sold me on buying it. Nice and compact but terrible to carry. I note there are feet on the side which implies handles. This I haven't seen mentioned.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Edward R Cole
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 2:30 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

Congrats to all who have wanted a KPA1500 (I'm not currently a prospect):

Interesting misconceptions already "flying"
"1500w cost three times 500w"

KPA1500 with internal tuner = $5995
KPA500+KAT500 = $2684.95*
5995/2684.95 = 2.23
*April special price

Power requirement 240vac @ 20A = 4800w
But likely the amp will draw 1500w/0.7 = 2143w (or so) plus maybe 200-300w for solid-state control ckts call it 2400w in round numbers or 240v @ 10A (just my guess)

My 6m 1000w PA draws 50A @ 50v = 2500w (40% eff. with 16 transistors) My 2m-8877 1400w PA draws 750ma @ 3700v = 2775w (50% eff. but with tired old tube)

20A is a convenient 240v value since breakers for that are readily available; I ran about 45-feet of No. 8 wiring to bring 240vac to my shack where I use a 60A breaker box with a 20A breaker (only tripped a couple times in several years useage - HV flashover & HV transformer failure).

I ran my own 240v run as I tired of waiting five months for the $700 Electrician to show up. I think the 4 cond. No. 8 cable ran about $1.50/foot plus costs for 30A 240v twist lock connectors/outlets & 60A utility box with three breakers. I see 2v drop on 240vac under load of the 8877.

KPA1500 nice design using separate 50v switching PS. Many new ham radio PA's coming out that use 50v so this could be multi-use PS. I would like a 2m 1500w sspa using LDMOS to replace the 8877 & HVPS. Not looking for that from Elecraft (I will probably buy a kit from W6PQL).

PS: if I were in market for HF QRO the KPA1500 would be my choice! I finally upgraded to the KXPA100+KXAT100 for my HF/6m needs (driven by either KX3 or K3/10).

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
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Clay Autery

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

Cannot wait to get a look inside....

There IS a handle on the left side (as you look at it). I don't know if
the small feet on the right side are for vertical orientation or to
prevent the total blockage of the vents if shoved up next to another
K-line product OR the power supply box...

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 4/21/2017 5:19 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Ed,
>
> You only missed the fact that the heaviest part is is < 22#'s. Wow, that is one of the biggest reasons I sold my THP 2.5kfx, I could barely lift it, not to mention THP is no longer in business. I haven't seen Elecraft's circuitry but with the two output devices, would seem earily similar. The design of the THP output is what sold me on buying it. Nice and compact but terrible to carry. I note there are feet on the side which implies handles. This I haven't seen mentioned.
>
> 73,
> Bill
> K9YEQ
______________________________________________________________
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Bill K9YEQ

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

Agreed. Would like more photos and detail. I am in and want to get one once released. Working on funds to acquire. This unit fits my needs totally.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Clay Autery
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 5:36 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

Cannot wait to get a look inside....

There IS a handle on the left side (as you look at it). I don't know if the small feet on the right side are for vertical orientation or to prevent the total blockage of the vents if shoved up next to another K-line product OR the power supply box...

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 4/21/2017 5:19 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Ed,
>
> You only missed the fact that the heaviest part is is < 22#'s. Wow, that is one of the biggest reasons I sold my THP 2.5kfx, I could barely lift it, not to mention THP is no longer in business. I haven't seen Elecraft's circuitry but with the two output devices, would seem earily similar. The design of the THP output is what sold me on buying it. Nice and compact but terrible to carry. I note there are feet on the side which implies handles. This I haven't seen mentioned.
>
> 73,
> Bill
> K9YEQ
______________________________________________________________
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k6dgw

Re: KPA 500 vs New 1500 watt amp

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

So I guess the former rule of thumb, "One Dollar per Watt" has met some
unspecified death.

73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 4/21/2017 12:30 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:

> Congrats to all who have wanted a KPA1500 (I'm not currently a prospect):
>
> Interesting misconceptions already "flying"
> "1500w cost three times 500w"
>
> KPA1500 with internal tuner = $5995
> KPA500+KAT500 = $2684.95*
> 5995/2684.95 = 2.23
> *April special price
>
> Power requirement 240vac @ 20A = 4800w
> But likely the amp will draw 1500w/0.7 = 2143w (or so) plus maybe
> 200-300w for solid-state control ckts
> call it 2400w in round numbers or 240v @ 10A (just my guess)
>
> My 6m 1000w PA draws 50A @ 50v = 2500w (40% eff. with 16 transistors)
> My 2m-8877 1400w PA draws 750ma @ 3700v = 2775w (50% eff. but with
> tired old tube)
>
> 20A is a convenient 240v value since breakers for that are readily
> available; I ran about 45-feet of No. 8 wiring to bring 240vac to my
> shack where I use a 60A breaker box with a 20A breaker (only tripped a
> couple times in several years useage - HV flashover & HV transformer
> failure).
>
> I ran my own 240v run as I tired of waiting five months for the $700
> Electrician to show up. I think the 4 cond. No. 8 cable ran about
> $1.50/foot plus costs for 30A 240v twist lock connectors/outlets & 60A
> utility box with three breakers. I see 2v drop on 240vac under load
> of the 8877.
>
> KPA1500 nice design using separate 50v switching PS. Many new ham
> radio PA's coming out that use 50v so this could be multi-use PS. I
> would like a 2m 1500w sspa using LDMOS to replace the 8877 & HVPS.
> Not looking for that from Elecraft (I will probably buy a kit from
> W6PQL).
>
> PS: if I were in market for HF QRO the KPA1500 would be my choice! I
> finally upgraded to the KXPA100+KXAT100 for my HF/6m needs (driven by
> either KX3 or K3/10).
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> Dubus-NA Business mail:
> [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
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