KPA100 Elimination?
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What with Elecraft's eventual HF AMPLIFIER(s)
product, becoming available - I'm wondering if this will mean new K2 builders will not need to go the KPA100 in-chassis amplifier route? I've never felt good about building and layering a KPA100 amplifier on top of the great little K2 bare bones rig. With the new Elecraft AMPLIFIER(s) - will us with bare bones K2's - need to beef up the basic K2 output, to drive the new Elecraft amplifiers? Will I need a HF PROJECTS 35W amp in-between? Plannning for 2007 .............. Fred, N3CSY __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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You won't be able to drive the KPA800/1500 products to their full output
with a bare K2. I don't understand the reluctance to add the KPA100 but at the same time suggesting a smaller, non-Elecraft amp to drive the new KPA800/1500. You can build your KPA100 in a separate case if that's the problem. Otherwise, you will be one of thousands of Elecraft customers happily driving a KPA800/1500 with a K2/100. Craig NZ0R K2/100 #4941 K1 #1966 KX1 #1499 -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fred (FL) Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 8:30 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] KPA100 Elimination? What with Elecraft's eventual HF AMPLIFIER(s) product, becoming available - I'm wondering if this will mean new K2 builders will not need to go the KPA100 in-chassis amplifier route? I've never felt good about building and layering a KPA100 amplifier on top of the great little K2 bare bones rig. With the new Elecraft AMPLIFIER(s) - will us with bare bones K2's - need to beef up the basic K2 output, to drive the new Elecraft amplifiers? Will I need a HF PROJECTS 35W amp in-between? Plannning for 2007 .............. Fred, N3CSY __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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I thought new FCC rules are going to relax limitations on amplifier gain. I
vaguely recall the Elecraft guys saying they might change the drive level requirements of the KPA-800 to allow full output power when drivin by 15W after the new rules went into effect. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Rairdin" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 9:38 AM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KPA100 Elimination? You won't be able to drive the KPA800/1500 products to their full output with a bare K2. I don't understand the reluctance to add the KPA100 but at the same time suggesting a smaller, non-Elecraft amp to drive the new KPA800/1500. You can build your KPA100 in a separate case if that's the problem. Otherwise, you will be one of thousands of Elecraft customers happily driving a KPA800/1500 with a K2/100. Craig NZ0R K2/100 #4941 K1 #1966 KX1 #1499 -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fred (FL) Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 8:30 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] KPA100 Elimination? What with Elecraft's eventual HF AMPLIFIER(s) product, becoming available - I'm wondering if this will mean new K2 builders will not need to go the KPA100 in-chassis amplifier route? I've never felt good about building and layering a KPA100 amplifier on top of the great little K2 bare bones rig. With the new Elecraft AMPLIFIER(s) - will us with bare bones K2's - need to beef up the basic K2 output, to drive the new Elecraft amplifiers? Will I need a HF PROJECTS 35W amp in-between? Plannning for 2007 .............. Fred, N3CSY __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Unfortunately (IMHO) the 15 dB maximum gain limitation was retained
in the new rules (do we need a KPA400?) Bob, N7XY On Dec 25, 2006, at 7:49 AM, Tom Althoff wrote: > I thought new FCC rules are going to relax limitations on amplifier > gain. I > vaguely recall the Elecraft guys saying they might change the drive > level > requirements of the KPA-800 to allow full output power when drivin > by 15W > after the new rules went into effect. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Craig Rairdin" <[hidden email]> > To: <[hidden email]> > Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 9:38 AM > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KPA100 Elimination? > > > You won't be able to drive the KPA800/1500 products to their full > output > with a bare K2. > > I don't understand the reluctance to add the KPA100 but at the same > time > suggesting a smaller, non-Elecraft amp to drive the new > KPA800/1500. You can > build your KPA100 in a separate case if that's the problem. > Otherwise, you > will be one of thousands of Elecraft customers happily driving a > KPA800/1500 > with a K2/100. > > Craig > NZ0R > K2/100 #4941 > K1 #1966 > KX1 #1499 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fred (FL) > Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 8:30 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: [Elecraft] KPA100 Elimination? > > > What with Elecraft's eventual HF AMPLIFIER(s) > product, becoming available - I'm wondering if this > will mean new K2 builders will not need to go the > KPA100 in-chassis amplifier route? I've never felt > good about building and layering a KPA100 amplifier > on top of the great little K2 bare bones rig. > > With the new Elecraft AMPLIFIER(s) - will us with > bare bones K2's - need to beef up the basic K2 > output, to drive the new Elecraft amplifiers? Will > I need a HF PROJECTS 35W amp in-between? > > Plannning for 2007 .............. > > Fred, N3CSY > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Fred (FL)
I'm not interested in going the KPA100 route,
to get a couple hundred Watts. IMO - If I ever decide to sell my K2, or upgrade, the KPA100 would be a price liability. I've always gone for the separate items form - XCVR, AMP, WATT/SWR Meter, Tuner ...... It just makes it easier to upgrade any of them, in the future. Getting ready to build my 2nd K2, and how I get 100 or more SSB/CW watts out of K2 rig, is my goal. The FCC changed the rules - maybe I just need to sit on the sidelines and watch the vendors, into the spring 07. Fred FL __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Don't loose track of one simple fact: the final amplifier module is an
integral part of the K2 design. If you're interested in QRP operation you can leave the 100 watt final amplifier module off and optionally replace it with a QRP ATU and battery. The fact that the KPA100 was not available at first while the K2 was sold in its QRP version makes it easy to visualize the KPA100 being an "add on" but that's not really the case. The QRO version of the K2 was being advertised way back at the beginning. The first ads I saw (1998 or 1999) on the Elecraft web site said the amplifier would provide either 50 or 100 watts output, but a final amplifier module was in the design from the beginning. Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fred (FL) Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 10:02 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA100 Elimination? I'm not interested in going the KPA100 route, to get a couple hundred Watts. IMO - If I ever decide to sell my K2, or upgrade, the KPA100 would be a price liability. I've always gone for the separate items form - XCVR, AMP, WATT/SWR Meter, Tuner ...... It just makes it easier to upgrade any of them, in the future. Getting ready to build my 2nd K2, and how I get 100 or more SSB/CW watts out of K2 rig, is my goal. The FCC changed the rules - maybe I just need to sit on the sidelines and watch the vendors, into the spring 07. Fred FL __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Bob Nielsen
Hmmm...a KPA-400 replacement for the KPA-100 would be a VERY nice addition
to the K2! Imagine a K2 that can go from milliwatts within 6db of the legal limit at the turn of a knob! I could get rid of my Titan II and be perfectly content. - Tom K2TA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Nielsen" <[hidden email]> To: "Tom Althoff" <[hidden email]> Cc: <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA100 Elimination? > Unfortunately (IMHO) the 15 dB maximum gain limitation was retained > in the new rules (do we need a KPA400?) > > Bob, N7XY > > On Dec 25, 2006, at 7:49 AM, Tom Althoff wrote: > > > I thought new FCC rules are going to relax limitations on amplifier > > gain. I > > vaguely recall the Elecraft guys saying they might change the drive > > level > > requirements of the KPA-800 to allow full output power when drivin > > by 15W > > after the new rules went into effect. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Craig Rairdin" <[hidden email]> > > To: <[hidden email]> > > Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 9:38 AM > > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KPA100 Elimination? > > > > > > You won't be able to drive the KPA800/1500 products to their full > > output > > with a bare K2. > > > > I don't understand the reluctance to add the KPA100 but at the same > > time > > suggesting a smaller, non-Elecraft amp to drive the new > > KPA800/1500. You can > > build your KPA100 in a separate case if that's the problem. > > Otherwise, you > > will be one of thousands of Elecraft customers happily driving a > > KPA800/1500 > > with a K2/100. > > > > Craig > > NZ0R > > K2/100 #4941 > > K1 #1966 > > KX1 #1499 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [hidden email] > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fred (FL) > > Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 8:30 AM > > To: [hidden email] > > Subject: [Elecraft] KPA100 Elimination? > > > > > > What with Elecraft's eventual HF AMPLIFIER(s) > > product, becoming available - I'm wondering if this > > will mean new K2 builders will not need to go the > > KPA100 in-chassis amplifier route? I've never felt > > good about building and layering a KPA100 amplifier > > on top of the great little K2 bare bones rig. > > > > With the new Elecraft AMPLIFIER(s) - will us with > > bare bones K2's - need to beef up the basic K2 > > output, to drive the new Elecraft amplifiers? Will > > I need a HF PROJECTS 35W amp in-between? > > > > Plannning for 2007 .............. > > > > Fred, N3CSY > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Post to: [hidden email] > > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Post to: [hidden email] > > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Post to: [hidden email] > > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Fred (FL)
> IMO - If I ever decide
> to sell my K2, or upgrade, the KPA100 would be a > price liability. I've been watching prices of K2's on eBay for a few months and it appears you may be correct. It's tough because there are sometimes auctions where the seller sets a ridiculously low "buy it now" price and throws off the average. If I throw out the outlying data points it looks like a bare K2 sells for around 20% off the kit price and a K2/100 sells for about 35% off the kit price. This, by the way, presents an interesting conundrum: You can buy a kit and pay someone to build it so your total cost is about 110% of the kit price, or you can buy an already-built and used kit for about 70% of the kit price. It also means that from a resale-value perspective, the worst thing you can do with your K2 kit is NOT adding a KPA100, but rather it is simply building it! :-) Craig NZ0R _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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You seem to be correct on your price assessment. It is a shame that such a
great radio goes so cheap. I have built several and I enjoy building but just am not willing to lose 20- 30% per kit. There was a time when it was easy to get the kit price for a newly built kit. Just my two cents. Brent ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Rairdin" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KPA100 Elimination? > IMO - If I ever decide > to sell my K2, or upgrade, the KPA100 would be a > price liability. I've been watching prices of K2's on eBay for a few months and it appears you may be correct. It's tough because there are sometimes auctions where the seller sets a ridiculously low "buy it now" price and throws off the average. If I throw out the outlying data points it looks like a bare K2 sells for around 20% off the kit price and a K2/100 sells for about 35% off the kit price. This, by the way, presents an interesting conundrum: You can buy a kit and pay someone to build it so your total cost is about 110% of the kit price, or you can buy an already-built and used kit for about 70% of the kit price. It also means that from a resale-value perspective, the worst thing you can do with your K2 kit is NOT adding a KPA100, but rather it is simply building it! :-) Craig NZ0R _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Yup... That's the reason I stopped building them.
73, Ken Wagner K3IU -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Brent Sutphin Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 3:25 PM To: Craig Rairdin; [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA100 Elimination? You seem to be correct on your price assessment. It is a shame that such a great radio goes so cheap. I have built several and I enjoy building but just am not willing to lose 20- 30% per kit. There was a time when it was easy to get the kit price for a newly built kit. Just my two cents. Brent _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Tom Althoff
Yes, yes, yes!!!!
>From what I understand, the KPA800 has two 400 watt power modules combined to produce 800 watts. So, a KPA400 with just one of the power modules, a built-in lower power antenna tuner, no combiner, a smaller power supply, solid state T/R switching, and without some fancy bells and whistles like SO2R would be ideal. Integrate it with the K2's power control, band switching, and antenna switching like the KPA100/KAT100 combo. A separate cabinet styled to match either the K2 or new KPA800/1500 would be just fine. Price it between the KPA100/KAT100 combo and the KPA800, say between $1500 and $2000 or so. Darrell VA7TO On December 25, 2006 10:31 am, Tom Althoff wrote: > Hmmm...a KPA-400 replacement for the KPA-100 would be a VERY nice addition > to the K2! > > Imagine a K2 that can go from milliwatts within 6db of the legal limit at > the turn of a knob! I could get rid of my Titan II and be perfectly > content. > > - Tom K2TA > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Nielsen" <[hidden email]> > > Unfortunately (IMHO) the 15 dB maximum gain limitation was retained > > in the new rules (do we need a KPA400?) > > -- Darrell Bellerive Amateur Radio Stations VA7TO and VE7CLA Grand Forks, British Columbia, Canada _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Oh, and I forgot one thing. No FAN! Just a nice HUGE heatsink. No matter how
quiet the fan, I just hate fan noise. The things holding me back from buying a KPA100/KAT100 are only 100 watts and the fan. Another 6 db and no moving air noise would tip the scale for me. On December 25, 2006 01:14 pm, Darrell Bellerive wrote: > Yes, yes, yes!!!! > > From what I understand, the KPA800 has two 400 watt power modules combined > to produce 800 watts. So, a KPA400 with just one of the power modules, a > built-in lower power antenna tuner, no combiner, a smaller power supply, > solid state T/R switching, and without some fancy bells and whistles like > SO2R would be ideal. Integrate it with the K2's power control, band > switching, and antenna switching like the KPA100/KAT100 combo. A separate > cabinet styled to match either the K2 or new KPA800/1500 would be just > fine. > > Price it between the KPA100/KAT100 combo and the KPA800, say between $1500 > and $2000 or so. > > Darrell > VA7TO > > On December 25, 2006 10:31 am, Tom Althoff wrote: > > Hmmm...a KPA-400 replacement for the KPA-100 would be a VERY nice > > addition to the K2! > > > > Imagine a K2 that can go from milliwatts within 6db of the legal limit at > > the turn of a knob! I could get rid of my Titan II and be perfectly > > content. > > > > - Tom K2TA > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bob Nielsen" <[hidden email]> > > > > > Unfortunately (IMHO) the 15 dB maximum gain limitation was retained > > > in the new rules (do we need a KPA400?) -- Darrell Bellerive Amateur Radio Stations VA7TO and VE7CLA Grand Forks, British Columbia, Canada _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Brent Sutphin WB4X
Brent Sutphin wrote:
> You seem to be correct on your price assessment. It is a shame that > such a great radio goes so cheap. I have built several and I enjoy > building but just am not willing to lose 20- 30% per kit. There was a > time when it was easy to get the kit price for a newly built kit. Well, it makes sense. I wouldn't buy an assembled kit as complicated as a K2 unless I knew the builder and was assured of his competence. Do you really want to look for someone else's poorly tinned toroid leads? -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Assembled radio prices (was: KPA100 Elimination?)
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I agree that's part of the dynamic at work here. But I also think it's no
different than any other used piece of equipment. I am willing to pay 50% to 70% of the retail price for a current model of some piece of electronic or computer equipment. I might go as high as 80% if it's a hard-to-find item. Above that, the benefits of buying new outweigh the savings -- that is, I get a warranty of some kind and I get to know I'm the first owner so I know how the equipment has been used. That maps pretty well to what I see with the Elecraft kits. People count the kit price as the retail price, and discount from there. I think the fact that someone has been successfully using the K2 for a year or two is proof that it's built well enough, and I think some people figure the builder is more experienced than they are, otherwise they wouldn't have built a kit. So the same market forces apply and people tend to pay no more than about 80% of SRP for a current piece of electronic gear. I believe, but can't prove for sure, that radios sold here on the list command a higher price than when sold on eBay. It's hard to say since I don't have the same visibility into the final selling price when the item is sold privately here on the list. Craig NZ0R -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Vic K2VCO Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 3:47 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Assembled radio prices (was: KPA100 Elimination?) Brent Sutphin wrote: > You seem to be correct on your price assessment. It is a shame that > such a great radio goes so cheap. I have built several and I enjoy > building but just am not willing to lose 20- 30% per kit. There was a > time when it was easy to get the kit price for a newly built kit. Well, it makes sense. I wouldn't buy an assembled kit as complicated as a K2 unless I knew the builder and was assured of his competence. Do you really want to look for someone else's poorly tinned toroid leads? -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Fred (FL)
I'll probably get thrown off of the Elecraft list for what I am about to say...8-)
Don't get me wrong...I love QRP....most of my contest participation is at 5W. I can work the world with 5W. And on 10M during a solar peak I can break pileups with 5W. But my experience is that 100W with a dipole on 160M *IS* QRP...that the chances of grabbing a VU7 in a 40M pileup from the U.S. running 5W are pretty low and anyone looking to run emergency traffic with 5W only has to try checking into the Elecraft CW net to have a sense of what to expect when your antennas are down and the water is flowing past your bedroom window. Turn it up to 400W and maybe get heard...and fry some fish as they float by! QRP...the real skills are at the other end. <boy...am I asking for trouble with THAT line!> LOL. 73 de K2TA/qrp _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Tom,
I don't think you will be thrown off the list - this is not a QRP reflector, and with questions about the (hopefully forthcoming soon) KPA800 and KPA1500, it is definitely not all QRP oriented - there are folks of both the QRP and QRO persuasions using Elecraft gear. Your thoughts are consistent with a talk given by Mike Boatright KO4WX at FDIM last year. Here he was talking to a bunch of QRP enthusiasts about Emergency Communications - he made a valid point that you must use enough power to create a signal above the noise level at the receiving end - whether that be 1 watt, 5 watts, 100 watts or 1500 watts. If your signal is down 'in the mud' at the receiving end, and you must make communication, there is no choice but to increase power - of course a directional antenna could increase power at the receiver end if it is pointed in that direction, but a beam on 80 meters or 160 meters is not a common thing. Even though we have a 5 watt limit to the QRP category for contests and such, the minimum power necessary for reliable communications may exceed that limit by a large margin. 73, Don W3FPR > -----Original Message----- > > I'll probably get thrown off of the Elecraft list for what I am > about to say...8-) > > Don't get me wrong...I love QRP....most of my contest > participation is at 5W. I can work the world with 5W. And on > 10M during a solar peak I can break pileups with 5W. > > But my experience is that 100W with a dipole on 160M *IS* > QRP...that the chances of grabbing a VU7 in a 40M pileup from the > U.S. running 5W are pretty low and anyone looking to run > emergency traffic with 5W only has to try checking into the > Elecraft CW net to have a sense of what to expect when your > antennas are down and the water is flowing past your bedroom > window. Turn it up to 400W and maybe get heard...and fry some > fish as they float by! > > QRP...the real skills are at the other end. <boy...am I asking > for trouble with THAT line!> LOL. > > 73 de K2TA/qrp > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.27/602 - Release Date: > 12/25/2006 10:19 AM > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.27/602 - Release Date: 12/25/2006 10:19 AM _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Fred (FL)
My original inquiry concerned my options, with a
new K2 build - for adding some more power later down the pike. I've always liked separate items; xcvr, tuner, metering, and amplifiers. In some way - the way I upgrade frequently - its easier with all the pieces, for me to swap/sell out a single item easier. And I'm just not nuts about adding a KPA100 on top cover of my neat little QRP K2 rig. I'd guess I want to give the K2 all the chance I can, with having as little RF interaction with a large pcb amplifier sitting 2" above the K2 plane. Having had done hundreds, no thousands, of CAD runs on analog circuits in my previous life - there are such things as R/L/C/S/F interactions and optimums. Perhaps the K2's digital makeup - helps this. I really don't understand all that is involved in moving a KPA100 outside to a separate box. Looks like my options are to build that new K2, and wait out the vendors - impacted by the latest FCC rulings. I understand there is a DB increase limit, over what the base K2 outputs. Perhaps that will limit my external choices. Does anyone know the DB increase, from 10W PEP to 100W PEP? What is driving me is the chance, in the future, to be able to swap out any item in the xcvr/tuner/amp/antenna string. Affordably, or with alternative backup items. Thanks, Fred N3CSY __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Fred,
It sounds like you are a good candidate for a KPA100 in an EC2 enclosure. If you also add the KAT100-2, the KPA100 plugs into the KAT100 board. Without the KAT100, you have to make a hole in the EC2 rear panel for a coax connector (KPA100 input) and make up a cable from the base K2 AUX I/O DE9 to the KPA100 AUX I/O DE9. Not difficult at all. It does require the KIO2 (or a substitute) in the base K2 - only 4 internal K2 signals are connected, no RS-232 signalling is involved on the path. A tenfold increase in power is 10 dB - dB=10log(P2/P1). 73, Don W3FPR > -----Original Message----- > > My original inquiry concerned my options, with a > new K2 build - for adding some more power later down > the pike. I've always liked separate items; xcvr, > tuner, metering, and amplifiers. In some way - the > way I upgrade frequently - its easier with all the > pieces, for me to swap/sell out a single item > easier. And I'm just not nuts about adding a KPA100 > on top cover of my neat little QRP K2 rig. I'd guess > I want to give the K2 all the chance I can, with > having as little RF interaction with a large pcb > amplifier sitting 2" above the K2 plane. Having had > done hundreds, no thousands, of CAD runs on analog > circuits in my previous life - there are such things > as R/L/C/S/F interactions and optimums. Perhaps > the K2's digital makeup - helps this. > > I really don't understand all that is involved in > moving a KPA100 outside to a separate box. Looks like > my options are to build that new K2, and wait out the > vendors - impacted by the latest FCC rulings. I > understand there is a DB increase limit, over what the > base K2 outputs. Perhaps that will limit my external > choices. Does anyone know the DB > increase, from 10W PEP to 100W PEP? > > What is driving me is the chance, in the future, to > be able to swap out any item in the > xcvr/tuner/amp/antenna string. Affordably, or with > alternative backup items. > > Thanks, > Fred N3CSY > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.27/602 - Release Date: 12/25/2006 10:19 AM _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Fred (FL)
A more accurate subject, should have been:
"KPA100 Alternatives". My K2 build tools, are on the table. Fred FL __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Fred (FL)
Thanks to Don, W3FPR, for clearly delineating what is required to put the KPA-100 in a separate enclosure. I'm certainly leaning in that direction, and somehow the Elecraft Web site doesn't spell out these details very well.
BTW, the reason I'm considering the 100 watt amplifier is because day after day I'm finding I copy weak CW signals on 80 meters better with the K2 than the Omni 6, Option 1 loaded with mods and filters. 73, Chuck NI0C _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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