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KPA1500 and FT8

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Carl Yaffey

KPA1500 and FT8

Tried full power on 20M FT8 this morning in order to work weak Russian. Temp gets as high as 75C. Loud fan kicks in. Hope this is normal.

Carl Yaffey K8NU
Recording studio.
[hidden email]
614 268 6353, Columbus OH
http://www.carl-yaffey.com
http://www.grassahol.com
http://www.bluesswing.com

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Dennis Moore

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

No, 1500 watts on FT8 is not normal.

73, Dennis NJ6G

On 3/3/2018 06:40, Carl Yaffey wrote:
> Tried full power on 20M FT8 this morning in order to work weak Russian. Temp gets as high as 75C. Loud fan kicks in. Hope this is normal.
>
> Carl Yaffey K8NU

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Richard-6

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

YIKES! I’d say that’s about 30 times what’s considered normal and polite!

Richard - W4KBX

> On Mar 3, 2018, at 2:50 PM, Dennis Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> No, 1500 watts on FT8 is not normal.
>
> 73, Dennis NJ6G
>
>
> On 3/3/2018 06:40, Carl Yaffey wrote:
>> Tried full power on 20M FT8 this morning in order to work weak Russian. Temp gets as high as 75C. Loud fan kicks in. Hope this is normal.
>>
>> Carl Yaffey K8NU
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Carl-N8VZ

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

In reply to this post by Dennis Moore

I feel all kinds of guilty if I pump it up to 110 watts on FT8 (or a JT mode) to bag a difficult station. A gallon and a half is down right sinful. ;-)

73,

Carl
N8VZ

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 3, 2018, at 2:50 PM, Dennis Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> No, 1500 watts on FT8 is not normal.
>
> 73, Dennis NJ6G
>
>
>> On 3/3/2018 06:40, Carl Yaffey wrote:
>> Tried full power on 20M FT8 this morning in order to work weak Russian. Temp gets as high as 75C. Loud fan kicks in. Hope this is normal.
>>
>> Carl Yaffey K8NU
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Richard-6

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

I suspect that most guys who feel it’s just fine and dandy to squirt legal limit FT8 signals all over the place have never been on the other end of that kind of inconsideration. Maybe if they saw how it virtually blots out waterfalls and generally makes life unpleasant for those who are following the accepted conventions, they’d have second thoughts.

Like maybe a better antenna.

Richard - W4KBX

> On Mar 3, 2018, at 3:01 PM, Carl Jón Denbow <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I feel all kinds of guilty if I pump it up to 110 watts on FT8 (or a JT mode) to bag a difficult station. A gallon and a half is down right sinful. ;-)
>
> 73,
>
> Carl
> N8VZ
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Mar 3, 2018, at 2:50 PM, Dennis Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> No, 1500 watts on FT8 is not normal.
>>
>> 73, Dennis NJ6G
>>
>>
>>> On 3/3/2018 06:40, Carl Yaffey wrote:
>>> Tried full power on 20M FT8 this morning in order to work weak Russian. Temp gets as high as 75C. Loud fan kicks in. Hope this is normal.
>>>
>>> Carl Yaffey K8NU
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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Chuck Milam, N9KY

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

In reply to this post by Richard-6

I see we are about to enter the dead horse beating ceremony over FT8 power
levels, as I’ve seen on other groups ad naseum. Suggest checking the FT8
developers’ comments on the difference between “low power” and “weak
signal” modes, before we enter the circular argument process.

73,

Chuck, N9KY

On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 13:59 Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> YIKES! I’d say that’s about 30 times what’s considered normal and polite!
>
> Richard - W4KBX
>
> > On Mar 3, 2018, at 2:50 PM, Dennis Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > No, 1500 watts on FT8 is not normal.
> >
> > 73, Dennis NJ6G
> >
> >
> > On 3/3/2018 06:40, Carl Yaffey wrote:
> >> Tried full power on 20M FT8 this morning in order to work weak Russian.
> Temp gets as high as 75C. Loud fan kicks in. Hope this is normal.
> >>
> >> Carl Yaffey K8NU
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
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--
---
Chuck Milam, N9KY
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Carl Yaffey

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

In reply to this post by Carl-N8VZ

Jeez, guys. Gimme a break. It was a TEST!

> On Mar 3, 2018, at 3:01 PM, Carl Jón Denbow <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I feel all kinds of guilty if I pump it up to 110 watts on FT8 (or a JT mode) to bag a difficult station. A gallon and a half is down right sinful. ;-)
>
> 73,

Carl Yaffey K8NU
Recording studio.
[hidden email]
614 268 6353, Columbus OH
http://www.carl-yaffey.com
http://www.grassahol.com
http://www.bluesswing.com

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Ken G Kopp

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

In reply to this post by Chuck Milam, N9KY

Yes Chuck, almost impossible to counter ignorance ... (;-)

73!

K0PP

On Sat, Mar 3, 2018, 13:11 Chuck Milam, N9KY <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I see we are about to enter the dead horse beating ceremony over FT8 power
> levels, as I’ve seen on other groups ad naseum. Suggest checking the FT8
> developers’ comments on the difference between “low power” and “weak
> signal” modes, before we enter the circular argument process.
>
> 73,
>
> Chuck, N9KY
>
> On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 13:59 Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > YIKES! I’d say that’s about 30 times what’s considered normal and polite!
> >
> > Richard - W4KBX
> >
> > > On Mar 3, 2018, at 2:50 PM, Dennis Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > No, 1500 watts on FT8 is not normal.
> > >
> > > 73, Dennis NJ6G
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/3/2018 06:40, Carl Yaffey wrote:
> > >> Tried full power on 20M FT8 this morning in order to work weak
> Russian.
> > Temp gets as high as 75C. Loud fan kicks in. Hope this is normal.
> > >>
> > >> Carl Yaffey K8NU
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> > > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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> > > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
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>
> --
> ---
> Chuck Milam, N9KY
> [hidden email]
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Glenn Anderson

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

In reply to this post by Carl-N8VZ

I normally run 500 to 600 watts on ft8. I would go higher if my amp could do it.Life too short for QRP!!!!
Glenn WB5TUF
-------- Original message --------From: Carl Jón Denbow <[hidden email]> Date: 3/3/18 14:01 (GMT-06:00) To: Dennis Moore <[hidden email]> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 and FT8
I feel all kinds of guilty if I pump it up to 110 watts on FT8 (or a JT mode) to bag a difficult station. A gallon and a half is down right sinful. ;-)

73,

Carl
N8VZ

Sent from my iPad

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wayne burdick

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

Administrator

In reply to this post by Carl Yaffey

To each his own.

I run 0.0 watts on FT8, since it’s the next best thing to ESP. I’ve had many a satisfactory, automated, effortless, imaginary QSO on this mode.

Wayne
N6KR

----
http://www.elecraft.com

> On Mar 3, 2018, at 1:27 PM, Glenn Anderson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I normally run 500 to 600 watts on ft8. I would go higher if my amp could do it.Life too short for QRP!!!!
> Glenn WB5TUF
> -------- Original message --------From: Carl Jón Denbow <[hidden email]> Date: 3/3/18 14:01 (GMT-06:00) To: Dennis Moore <[hidden email]> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 and FT8
> I feel all kinds of guilty if I pump it up to 110 watts on FT8 (or a JT mode) to bag a difficult station. A gallon and a half is down right sinful. ;-)
>
> 73,
>
> Carl
> N8VZ
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Mar 3, 2018, at 2:50 PM, Dennis Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> No, 1500 watts on FT8 is not normal.
>>
>> 73, Dennis NJ6G
>>
>>
>>> On 3/3/2018 06:40, Carl Yaffey wrote:
>>> Tried full power on 20M FT8 this morning in order to work weak Russian. Temp gets as high as 75C. Loud fan kicks in. Hope this is normal.
>>>
>>> Carl Yaffey K8NU
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Carl-N8VZ

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

In reply to this post by Carl Yaffey

That's certainly not in the spirit of weak-signal digital modes. Most
of us run anywhere from 1 watt to 35 watts. Those are the type of
signals that completely wipe out a large segment of the waterfall and
make it difficult for others to complete QSOs. There's nothing illegal
about what you are doing, but weak signal modes were developed to
provide the opportunity to get around the world with just a few watts
and a dipole slung in the backyard between two trees. If you want to
run that kind of wattage on FT8, I'd recommend trying RTTY instead.
High wattage is the norm on that mode.

73,

Carl

Glenn Anderson wrote:

> I normally run 500 to 600 watts on ft8. I would go higher if my amp
> could do it.
> Life too short for QRP!!!!
>
> Glenn WB5TUF
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Carl Jón Denbow <[hidden email]>
> Date: 3/3/18 14:01 (GMT-06:00)
> To: Dennis Moore <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 and FT8
>
> I feel all kinds of guilty if I pump it up to 110 watts on FT8 (or a
> JT mode) to bag a difficult station. A gallon and a half is down
> right sinful. ;-)
>
> 73,
>
> Carl
> N8VZ
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 3, 2018, at 2:50 PM, Dennis Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > No, 1500 watts on FT8 is not normal.
> >
> > 73, Dennis NJ6G
> >
> >
> >> On 3/3/2018 06:40, Carl Yaffey wrote:
> >> Tried full power on 20M FT8 this morning in order to work weak
> Russian. Temp gets as high as 75C. Loud fan kicks in. Hope this is normal.
> >>
> >> Carl Yaffey K8NU
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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--
=================================================
Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
17 Coventry Lane
Athens, Ohio 45701-3718

[hidden email]
www.n8vz.com
EM89wh

IRLP 4533 Echolink 116070

PSK and JT65 Forever!
=================================================

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Richard-6

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Wayne, I think there’s a song in that.

Richard - W4KBX

> On Mar 3, 2018, at 5:07 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> To each his own.
>
> I run 0.0 watts on FT8, since it’s the next best thing to ESP. I’ve had many a satisfactory, automated, effortless, imaginary QSO on this mode.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> ----
> http://www.elecraft.com
>
>> On Mar 3, 2018, at 1:27 PM, Glenn Anderson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I normally run 500 to 600 watts on ft8. I would go higher if my amp could do it.Life too short for QRP!!!!
>> Glenn WB5TUF
>> -------- Original message --------From: Carl Jón Denbow <[hidden email]> Date: 3/3/18 14:01 (GMT-06:00) To: Dennis Moore <[hidden email]> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 and FT8
>> I feel all kinds of guilty if I pump it up to 110 watts on FT8 (or a JT mode) to bag a difficult station. A gallon and a half is down right sinful. ;-)
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Carl
>> N8VZ
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Mar 3, 2018, at 2:50 PM, Dennis Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> No, 1500 watts on FT8 is not normal.
>>>
>>> 73, Dennis NJ6G
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 3/3/2018 06:40, Carl Yaffey wrote:
>>>> Tried full power on 20M FT8 this morning in order to work weak Russian. Temp gets as high as 75C. Loud fan kicks in. Hope this is normal.
>>>>
>>>> Carl Yaffey K8NU
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>
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Jim Brown-10

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

In reply to this post by Chuck Milam, N9KY

On 3/3/2018 12:09 PM, Chuck Milam, N9KY wrote:
> I see we are about to enter the dead horse beating ceremony over FT8 power
> levels, as I’ve seen on other groups ad naseum. Suggest checking the FT8
> developers’ comments on the difference between “low power” and “weak
> signal” modes,

Exactly right. WSJT modes are designed for WEAK SIGNALS, NOT QRP.
Signals can be weak because of poor antenna(s), low TX power, and poor
propagation. FT8, JT65, JT9, are designed to pull signals out of noise.
If the other station has a high noise level, we may need to run more
power for him to decode us.

If I'm calling EU on 160 from NorCal, I'm running close to legal limit.
On 6M, I run my KPA500 at full power on all modes, including WSJT modes.
Yes, it IS good practice to use no more power than necessary, and on
some bands, especially higher bands, for a path with decent propagation,
10W may be plenty.

Although I often operate legal limit, I also have 170 countries
confirmed QRP, a few hours ago worked 3C3W with 5W on 17M CW, and it
took less than 10 minutes. It took an hour on 20M RTTY at 1400W.

73, Jim K9YC

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Wes Stewart-2

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

I believe that I invented the term "imaginary mode". See the thread: "K3 And
WSJT-X FT8 Timing"

Wes N7WS

On 3/3/2018 3:07 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> To each his own.
>
> I run 0.0 watts on FT8, since it’s the next best thing to ESP. I’ve had many a satisfactory, automated, effortless, imaginary QSO on this mode.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> ----
> http://www.elecraft.com

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Paul Baldock

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

In reply to this post by Carl Yaffey

It would be nice if somebody answered the actual question "Is 75C
normal ?" Just pretend he was on RTTY..

- Paul

At 06:40 AM 3/3/2018, Carl Yaffey wrote:

>Tried full power on 20M FT8 this morning in order to work weak
>Russian. Temp gets as high as 75C. Loud fan kicks in. Hope this is normal.
>
>Carl Yaffey K8NU
>Recording studio.
>[hidden email]
>614 268 6353, Columbus OH
>http://www.carl-yaffey.com
>http://www.grassahol.com
>http://www.bluesswing.com
>
>______________________________________________________________
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Wes Stewart-2

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

In reply to this post by Chuck Milam, N9KY

I'm reminded of the following:

A number of years ago one of the members of our local DX club put up a 90' tower
on top of a ridge in the Tucson Mountains. All perfectly legal at the time.
The politically connected Gates Pass Area Neighborhood Association went
ballistic. They coerced (did I mention politically connected) the county Board
of Supervisors into proposing an ordinance that would limit towers to the same
(34') height of a residence. We hams ponied up about $10K as I recall to hire a
savvy lawyer, versed in political shenanigans, and packed the meeting room.
Speakers from the Red Cross, CAP, Sheriff's Dept, Search and Rescue, and a
number of hams who had helped in disaster communications, etc made our case.

The home owner's association had one representative who held up his cell phone
and said to the Supes that he could talk all over the world with it and he
didn't need any outdoor antenna.

Although there resulted some new building permit requirements, we can still have
100' towers, (and except for 30-meters, can still run 1500 W on FT8.)

Wes N7WS

http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue2/2004/04/14/122382-county-won-t-limit-ham-radio-antennas/

On 3/3/2018 1:09 PM, Chuck Milam, N9KY wrote:
> I see we are about to enter the dead horse beating ceremony over FT8 power
> levels, as I’ve seen on other groups ad naseum. Suggest checking the FT8
> developers’ comments on the difference between “low power” and “weak
> signal” modes, before we enter the circular argument process.
>
> 73,
>
> Chuck, N9KY

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wayne burdick

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

Administrator

In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2

I give you full credit.

Wayne

----
http://www.elecraft.com

> On Mar 3, 2018, at 2:40 PM, Wes Stewart <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I believe that I invented the term "imaginary mode". See the thread: "K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing"
>
> Wes N7WS
>
>> On 3/3/2018 3:07 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> To each his own.
>>
>> I run 0.0 watts on FT8, since it’s the next best thing to ESP. I’ve had many a satisfactory, automated, effortless, imaginary QSO on this mode.
>>
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>> ----
>> http://www.elecraft.com
>
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Nr4c

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

In reply to this post by Carl-N8VZ

Weak signal is not the same as low power !

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Mar 3, 2018, at 5:10 PM, Carl Jón Denbow <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> That's certainly not in the spirit of weak-signal digital modes. Most of us run anywhere from 1 watt to 35 watts. Those are the type of signals that completely wipe out a large segment of the waterfall and make it difficult for others to complete QSOs. There's nothing illegal about what you are doing, but weak signal modes were developed to provide the opportunity to get around the world with just a few watts and a dipole slung in the backyard between two trees. If you want to run that kind of wattage on FT8, I'd recommend trying RTTY instead. High wattage is the norm on that mode.
>
> 73,
>
> Carl
>
> Glenn Anderson wrote:
>> I normally run 500 to 600 watts on ft8. I would go higher if my amp could do it.
>> Life too short for QRP!!!!
>>
>> Glenn WB5TUF
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Carl Jón Denbow <[hidden email]>
>> Date: 3/3/18 14:01 (GMT-06:00)
>> To: Dennis Moore <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 and FT8
>>
>> I feel all kinds of guilty if I pump it up to 110 watts on FT8 (or a JT mode) to bag a difficult station. A gallon and a half is down right sinful. ;-)
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Carl
>> N8VZ
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> > On Mar 3, 2018, at 2:50 PM, Dennis Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > No, 1500 watts on FT8 is not normal.
>> >
>> > 73, Dennis NJ6G
>> >
>> >
>> >> On 3/3/2018 06:40, Carl Yaffey wrote:
>> >> Tried full power on 20M FT8 this morning in order to work weak Russian. Temp gets as high as 75C. Loud fan kicks in. Hope this is normal.
>> >>
>> >> Carl Yaffey K8NU
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________________________
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Carl-N8VZ

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

Using 1500 watts on a digital mode (except for RTTY) is unwarranted a
bad practice. I've been using the new digital modes since PSK31
started. I was on the bleeding edge of working with PSK in its earliest
days. This is the first time I've heard anyone try to justify using
that kind of wattage on a weak signal mode. The vast majority of those
who use the JT modes (including FT8) consider QRO to be 100 watts. As I
said what you are doing is legal, but it does fly in the face of the
general consensus among users of these modes. If a poll was taken of
users of these modes, I'm quite certain your position would be a
distinct minority. 73 de Carl N8VZ

> Nr4c <mailto:[hidden email]>
> March 3, 2018 at 10:54 PM
> Weak signal is not the same as low power !
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
>
>
>

--
======================================
*Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ*
17 Coventry Lane Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
<mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
www.n8vz.com <http://www.n8vz.com/>

EM89wh
IRLP 4533 Echolink 116070

PSK and JT65 Forever!
======================================
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w0mu

Re: KPA1500 and FT8

Weak Signal work on 160m is very different than a band that is wide
open. The key here is clean signals not being over driven. The amount
of power being used is not the issue it is how poorly a transmitted
signal is.

The vast majority do not understand this concept and think FT8 is a QRP
mode. It is not. Just because the masses thing one way does make it
the way it is. As long as my signal is clean is should not matter how
much power I am running. when the band is wide open to an area you see
lots of wide signals, mostly because we have our receivers opened op
wide so there is very little filtering going on so front ends start to
get overworked.

Power is only one factor. Lets talk about antenna gain as well.

Bill was correct FT8 is a weak signal mode. It was never created as a
low power mode that I have read.

W0MU

On 3/3/2018 9:35 PM, Carl J. Denbow wrote:

> Using 1500 watts on a digital mode (except for RTTY) is unwarranted a
> bad practice. I've been using the new digital modes since PSK31
> started. I was on the bleeding edge of working with PSK in its
> earliest days. This is the first time I've heard anyone try to
> justify using that kind of wattage on a weak signal mode. The vast
> majority of those who use the JT modes (including FT8) consider QRO to
> be 100 watts. As I said what you are doing is legal, but it does fly
> in the face of the general consensus among users of these modes. If a
> poll was taken of users of these modes, I'm quite certain your
> position would be a distinct minority. 73 de Carl N8VZ
>
>> Nr4c <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> March 3, 2018 at 10:54 PM
>> Weak signal is not the same as low power !
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ...nr4c. bill
>>
>>
>>
>