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KPA1500 power per frequency bin

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Hank Garretson

KPA1500 power per frequency bin

It sure would be nice if KPA1500 remembered K3 power for each frequency bin
instead of for each band.

Is there a menu item to make this happen? Or is it a feature request.

Contest, Cope Exuberantly,

Hank, W6SX
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Re: KPA1500 power per frequency bin

It’s not a KPA1500 function, but rather a K3 function. And the K3 has no concept of KPA ATU bins.

73!
Jack, W6FB

> On Jun 2, 2020, at 3:39 PM, Hank Garretson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It sure would be nice if KPA1500 remembered K3 power for each frequency bin
> instead of for each band.
>
> Is there a menu item to make this happen? Or is it a feature request.
>
> Contest, Cope Exuberantly,
>
> Hank, W6SX
> ______________________________________________________________
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Carl Clawson-3

Re: KPA1500 power per frequency bin

Regardless of how it would have to be implemented, Hank hit the nail
squarely on the head here. As I go up and down the band (especially low
bands where the antennas are skinny and every increment of power is to be
treasured) I have to either dial back my power when the KPA ATU is working
harder, or accept lowered power on those frequencies where the ATU is
loafing.

It may be too late for the K3, but Elecraft software guys, please figure
out how to make the K4 and KPA1500 talk to each other and make this happen.

Your customers will appreciate it!

73, Carl WS7L

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 3:54 PM Jack Brindle via Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> It’s not a KPA1500 function, but rather a K3 function. And the K3 has no
> concept of KPA ATU bins.
>
> 73!
> Jack, W6FB
>
>
> > On Jun 2, 2020, at 3:39 PM, Hank Garretson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > It sure would be nice if KPA1500 remembered K3 power for each frequency
> bin
> > instead of for each band.
> >
> > Is there a menu item to make this happen? Or is it a feature request.
> >
> > Contest, Cope Exuberantly,
> >
> > Hank, W6SX
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Hank Garretson

Re: KPA1500 power per frequency bin

Here's what happens to me.

I train KPA1500 ATU at center of each frequency bin across a ham band. I
transmit in one bin and KPA1500 output is say 1350 watts.. I transmit in
another bin and KPA1500 output is above 1500 watts. I have to keep
adjusting K3 power as I move around band. A bother and nuisance.

Clearly KPA 1500 knows K3 frequency, either via Aux cable or sense. Either
way KPA1500 knows what ATU bin to use.

If KPA1500 is Operate, then it tells K3 to use last power, say 30 watts, I
selected for KPA1500 Operate for whatever band is in use.

If KPA1500 is Standby, then it tells K3 to use last power, say 100 watts, I
selected for KPA1500 Standby for whatever band is in use.

KPA1500 remembers and tells K3 what power to use per band. Since KPA1500
"knows" if I'm in OPR or STBY and what bin I'm in, it would sure be nice if
it could remember and command K3 power appropriately.

Contest, Cope Exuberantly,

Hank, W6SX

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 6:13 PM Carl Clawson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Regardless of how it would have to be implemented, Hank hit the nail
> squarely on the head here. As I go up and down the band (especially low
> bands where the antennas are skinny and every increment of power is to be
> treasured) I have to either dial back my power when the KPA ATU is working
> harder, or accept lowered power on those frequencies where the ATU is
> loafing.
>
> It may be too late for the K3, but Elecraft software guys, please figure
> out how to make the K4 and KPA1500 talk to each other and make this happen.
>
> Your customers will appreciate it!
>
> 73, Carl WS7L
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 3:54 PM Jack Brindle via Elecraft <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > It’s not a KPA1500 function, but rather a K3 function. And the K3 has no
> > concept of KPA ATU bins.
> >
> > 73!
> > Jack, W6FB
> >
> >
> > > On Jun 2, 2020, at 3:39 PM, Hank Garretson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > It sure would be nice if KPA1500 remembered K3 power for each frequency
> > bin
> > > instead of for each band.
> > >
> > > Is there a menu item to make this happen? Or is it a feature request.
> > >
> > > Contest, Cope Exuberantly,
> > >
> > > Hank, W6SX
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
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K8TE

Re: KPA1500 power per frequency bin

I am right there with Hank, and probably a lot of others. It's worse when
one has an external antenna switch which the KPA1500 can't sense so it's
necessary to provide low power from the K3 to avoid a fault because of the
different antenna and the tuner can provide the appropriate (already
trained) match. Also, switching between ANT1 and ANT2 with different
conjugate matches often requires different power levels from the K3 (or
other radios).

So, for operator "convenience" I find it necessary to set the K3 power level
at the lower point to avoid faults. Sadly, there is now way for the KPA1500
to tell the K3 (or K4) what's going on and therefore what to do. I'm
attempting to become smarter with an Arduino and, hopefully, figure out how
to automate this. It requires a look-up table to determine frequency,
antenna, tuning solution, for setting the exciter drive level. So far, I
can spell Arduino correctly four out of five times. That is progress!
Next, I will plug it in.

BTW, if one's antennas demonstrate little to no reactance and a 50 Ohm
match, this is not an issue. That only happens in the movies and on TV
(Last Man Standing? who needs a K-Line, obviously).

73, Bill, K8TE

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: KPA1500 power per frequency bin

The K3 has only one way to communicate with the KPA500 and KPA1500, that being Auxbus. There is no communications on this path that allows setting of specific power levels in the K3 - there is only the OP/STBY that simply selects either the K3 high power (STBY) or low power (OPER) modes. You have to set those levels in the K3. Simply put, the communication paths and protocols do not exist for the KPA1500 to set specific power levels in the K3.

Now, I am happy to say that there is most likely an upgrade coming that will allow the KAP1500 (but not he KPA500) to communicate with the transceiver to set the power level. Of course, that upgrade is known as the K4.
The K4 and KPA1500 should work very well together.

It is kind of like the car you drive. You may want the car to have an autonomous feature so that it drives itself, but you will have to buy a new car to do that job. Me? I am saving my money and enjoying driving my old car.

The K4 is coming. I am sure you will enjoy it when it gets here!

73!
Jack, W6FB

> On Jun 3, 2020, at 2:38 PM, K8TE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I am right there with Hank, and probably a lot of others. It's worse when
> one has an external antenna switch which the KPA1500 can't sense so it's
> necessary to provide low power from the K3 to avoid a fault because of the
> different antenna and the tuner can provide the appropriate (already
> trained) match. Also, switching between ANT1 and ANT2 with different
> conjugate matches often requires different power levels from the K3 (or
> other radios).
>
> So, for operator "convenience" I find it necessary to set the K3 power level
> at the lower point to avoid faults. Sadly, there is now way for the KPA1500
> to tell the K3 (or K4) what's going on and therefore what to do. I'm
> attempting to become smarter with an Arduino and, hopefully, figure out how
> to automate this. It requires a look-up table to determine frequency,
> antenna, tuning solution, for setting the exciter drive level. So far, I
> can spell Arduino correctly four out of five times. That is progress!
> Next, I will plug it in.
>
> BTW, if one's antennas demonstrate little to no reactance and a 50 Ohm
> match, this is not an issue. That only happens in the movies and on TV
> (Last Man Standing? who needs a K-Line, obviously).
>
> 73, Bill, K8TE
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

ANDY DURBIN

KPA1500 power per frequency bin

In reply to this post by Hank Garretson

"The K3 has only one way to communicate with the KPA500 and KPA1500, that being Auxbus. There is no communications on this path that allows setting of specific power levels in the K3 - there is only the OP/STBY that simply selects either the K3 high power (STBY) or low power (OPER) modes. You have to set those levels in the K3. Simply put, the communication paths and protocols do not exist for the KPA1500 to set specific power levels in the K3."

I can understand that there is no way for the KPA1500 to command the K3 to a specific power setting based on frequency. However, that is not required for the K3 to set drive power based on current frequency. The K3 knows the current TX frequency. The K3 would have to host an array of bin frequency definitions each with an associated power level (or each with multiple power levels). That's a LOT more data sets than the current "by band" power mapping. It's quite possible the K3 does not have the required spare memory but I don't see that the current interface prevents this being implemented. What am I missing?

As has been mentioned - shouldn't be too difficult to do this with an external Arduino based controller.

73,
Andy, k3wyc

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ke9uw

Re: KPA1500 power per frequency bin

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

So...is it possible that the KPA500 could ever be upgraded or be a KPA500A to be as capable as the KPA1500?
I am not comfortable with having a 1500 watt amplifier and probably would have to suffer all that noise and bother just to run a couple or few hundred watts. That is what I love about the KPA500, compact and super quiet.

Chuck Jack Hawley
KE9UW

Sent from my iPhone, cjack

> On Jun 3, 2020, at 5:22 PM, Jack Brindle via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The K3 has only one way to communicate with the KPA500 and KPA1500, that being Auxbus. There is no communications on this path that allows setting of specific power levels in the K3 - there is only the OP/STBY that simply selects either the K3 high power (STBY) or low power (OPER) modes. You have to set those levels in the K3. Simply put, the communication paths and protocols do not exist for the KPA1500 to set specific power levels in the K3.
>
> Now, I am happy to say that there is most likely an upgrade coming that will allow the KAP1500 (but not he KPA500) to communicate with the transceiver to set the power level. Of course, that upgrade is known as the K4.
> The K4 and KPA1500 should work very well together.
>
> It is kind of like the car you drive. You may want the car to have an autonomous feature so that it drives itself, but you will have to buy a new car to do that job. Me? I am saving my money and enjoying driving my old car.
>
> The K4 is coming. I am sure you will enjoy it when it gets here!
>
> 73!
> Jack, W6FB
>
>
>
>> On Jun 3, 2020, at 2:38 PM, K8TE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I am right there with Hank, and probably a lot of others. It's worse when
>> one has an external antenna switch which the KPA1500 can't sense so it's
>> necessary to provide low power from the K3 to avoid a fault because of the
>> different antenna and the tuner can provide the appropriate (already
>> trained) match. Also, switching between ANT1 and ANT2 with different
>> conjugate matches often requires different power levels from the K3 (or
>> other radios).
>>
>> So, for operator "convenience" I find it necessary to set the K3 power level
>> at the lower point to avoid faults. Sadly, there is now way for the KPA1500
>> to tell the K3 (or K4) what's going on and therefore what to do. I'm
>> attempting to become smarter with an Arduino and, hopefully, figure out how
>> to automate this. It requires a look-up table to determine frequency,
>> antenna, tuning solution, for setting the exciter drive level. So far, I
>> can spell Arduino correctly four out of five times. That is progress!
>> Next, I will plug it in.
>>
>> BTW, if one's antennas demonstrate little to no reactance and a 50 Ohm
>> match, this is not an issue. That only happens in the movies and on TV
>> (Last Man Standing? who needs a K-Line, obviously).
>>
>> 73, Bill, K8TE
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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Chuck, KE9UW

Josh Fiden

Re: KPA1500 power per frequency bin

What feature(s) of KPA1500 would you want in KPA500? Sincere question. I’m not familiar with the differences other than hardware. Built in tuner, separate light weight switching PS, legal limit power.

With my antennas I don’t see a big enough power difference across the band with KPA500. Power could vary by 20% (it doesn’t) and its still <1dB, not a big deal on HF. 450-550W the amp doesn’t care. With my big amp it’s a problem when I want to set for 1.5kW then QSY and it’s 1.6+kW... not good.

73
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device

> On Jun 4, 2020, at 12:20 PM, hawley, charles j jr <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> So...is it possible that the KPA500 could ever be upgraded or be a KPA500A to be as capable as the KPA1500?
>

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ke9uw

Re: KPA1500 power per frequency bin

I don’t know, I just read that there are capabilities in the 1500 that the 500 may not have.

Chuck Jack Hawley
KE9UW

Sent from my iPhone, cjack

> On Jun 4, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Josh Fiden <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> What feature(s) of KPA1500 would you want in KPA500? Sincere question. I’m not familiar with the differences other than hardware. Built in tuner, separate light weight switching PS, legal limit power.
>
> With my antennas I don’t see a big enough power difference across the band with KPA500. Power could vary by 20% (it doesn’t) and its still <1dB, not a big deal on HF. 450-550W the amp doesn’t care. With my big amp it’s a problem when I want to set for 1.5kW then QSY and it’s 1.6+kW... not good.
>
> 73
> Josh W6XU
>
> Sent from my mobile device
>
>> On Jun 4, 2020, at 12:20 PM, hawley, charles j jr <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> So...is it possible that the KPA500 could ever be upgraded or be a KPA500A to be as capable as the KPA1500?
>>
>

Chuck, KE9UW

Jim Brown-10

Re: KPA1500 power per frequency bin

In reply to this post by Josh Fiden

On 6/4/2020 12:36 PM, Josh Fiden wrote:
> What feature(s) of KPA1500 would you want in KPA500? Sincere question. I’m not familiar with the differences other than hardware. Built in tuner, separate light weight switching PS, legal limit power.

The fan noise in the KPA500 is less awful than in the KPA1500, which are
TERRIBLY LOUD when running high duty cycle, like WSJY-X modes and RTTY
when you're running and have worked out the band.

The KPA500 is intended to work with the very nice KAT500 tuner. The
KPA1500 comes with a built-in tuner, also excellent.

73, Jim K9YC
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ANDY DURBIN

Re: KPA1500 power per frequency bin

In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN

"As has been mentioned - shouldn't be too difficult to do this with an external Arduino based controller. "

My brain needed something to do while I was watching 30 m for new DX so I created a rough draft proposal for "power per frequency bin". I created this to stimulate discussion not because I have any intention of coding it myself. I don't have a KPA1500 and my current power management scheme is adequate for my KPA500.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/scuxibyl6laueak/Power%20by%20bin%20-%20draft%201%20k3wyc.pdf?dl=0

73,
Andy, k3wyc

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