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KPA500 - just 500 watts?

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Grant Youngman

Re: KPA500 - just 500 watts?

A listen on the bands during most contests, makes it pretty clear which of the 3 is most normally left out :-)

4cx15000 anyone?

Grant/NQ5T

On Jan 25, 2011, at 12:59 PM, Lu Romero wrote:

> John, what follows is "The W4LT Big-Time Radio Corollary of
> Contesting (or DX'ing):
>
> ---------
> Antenna
> Brains
> Power
>
> Pick two of the three.
> ----------
>

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Rick Dettinger-3

Re: KPA500 - just 500 watts?

In reply to this post by k0wa@swbell.net

I don't know about majic, but 500 watts out closely mimics the maximum
legal power of the era that many of us got into ham radio. The power
was specified in input power and was limited to 1 KW. I suspect that
the KPA-500 is close to that.
500 watts seems to be a good figure for a 120 volt supply voltage.
And while it might be an expensive way to go, the KPA-500 could be
driven to 200 watts with about 7 watts, giving what some have wished
for with a K3. 200 watts of very clean SSB output. I only do CW so
this is just a thought.
And I think there is a full power amplifier in the works.

73,
Rick Dettinger
K7MW

>
>
> OK...
>
> Got my flame suit on....
>
> Why just 500 watts with te KPA-500? Is that a majic number? I am
> just asking.
> It seems that 500 watts would be OK if you are on a DXpedition...but
> if you are
> in the "fray" of a contest in the USofA....the more watts the better.
>
>
> Don't get me wrong...I love the idea of the KPA500 and the KAT500.
> But what is
> majic about 500 watts when many amps will run much more than that
> and are a lot
> less money? Cost vs ????
>
> Please don't kill me....just...wondering what the big deal is!
>
> Lee - K0WA
> K3/100 with the AL-82
>
>

Scott Ellington

Re: KPA500 - just 500 watts?

Not that I want to start an argument here, but I think a strong case can be made that the US power limit of 1.5 kW is too high. (Ask any urban ham who has had to deal with 1.5 kW RFI issues.) With some exceptions, we're forced to run 1.5 kW because the competition does, not because of propagation or noise levels. Some exceptions are DX on 80 and 160, backscatter, and much VHF/UHF operation. Judging from the number of uncopyable DX stations who answer my CQ's on 80 and 160, 100 W is clearly too low. 500 W might be reasonable. The UK power limit is 400 W, and we work lots of them on 160.

Any who want to argue, let's do that off line.

73,

Scott K9MA

Scott Ellington
Madison, Wisconsin
USA

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Alan Bloom

Dollars per watt (was: KPA500 - just 500 watts?)

In reply to this post by Vic K2VCO

On Tue, 2011-01-25 at 08:04 -0800, Vic K2VCO wrote:
...
> Speaking of dollars per watt, I'm presently using a homebrew pair of 813's which produce
> 800 watts (QSK but no 6M) and I have less than $400 into it. $0.50 dollars per watt.

Many years ago I heard of a guy who built a linear amplifier using a
single 811. He ran it in grounded grid with tons of negative RF
feedback (grid lifted way off RF ground with a small capacitor) so that
the gain was only a little greater than unity.

As I recall, the input RF driving power was 900 watts and the output
power was 1000W, the other 100W being supplied by the 811. But since
amplifiers are rated by output power rather than [output - input] power,
his dollars per watt came out at something like 5 cents/watt. :=)

Al N1AL

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Phil Hystad-3

Re: KPA500 - just 500 watts?

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Wayne,

Interesting. It was the Norcal 40A that also got me interested in QRP. When I got back into ham radio in 2004, all I could think of was SSB and legal limit power. This is because my previous stint as a ham operator in 1966 was as Novice only: meaning CW only and 75 watts input power.

But, I soon tired of amplified power and now almost never use it. But, I want it there when necessary which is why I will buy the KPA500. But, I do have my KX1 and I am working more and more QSO of significant distance. So far my longest is only 1000 miles but this is mostly because of my lack of time lately to operate during the day when the bands are best on 20 and 40. Although, 40 is not bad at night either at times.

But, I have reversed my position from almost always having my amp on to now almost never having it on.

73, phil, K7PEH

On Jan 25, 2011, at 10:47 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> The question of "how much power is enough?" is always good for a lot
>> of chatter.
>
> Indeed.
>
> This thread is always entertaining to those (including myself) who
> have completed DXCC with less than 5 watts and a random wire. Not that
> I'm biased. It was a struggle, and there's definitely a time and place
> for more power.
>
> But occasionally I like to drop down to nearly nothing to remind
> myself that, when the bands are really open, you *can* do it with a
> lot less.
>
> Eric doesn't talk about his own QRP accomplishments much, but he
> worked over 100 countries on a NorCal 40 (one of my first designs)
> running just a few watts. In fact that's how we first met; I think he
> called me to (a) thank me for the design and (b) boast just a little
> to someone who would appreciate it :)
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
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Vic K2VCO

Re: Dollars per watt

In reply to this post by Alan Bloom

This sounds like a story by Hashafisti Scratchi or Larsen E. Rapp.

On 1/25/2011 12:52 PM, Alan Bloom wrote:

> On Tue, 2011-01-25 at 08:04 -0800, Vic K2VCO wrote:
> ...
>> Speaking of dollars per watt, I'm presently using a homebrew pair of 813's which produce
>> 800 watts (QSK but no 6M) and I have less than $400 into it. $0.50 dollars per watt.
>
> Many years ago I heard of a guy who built a linear amplifier using a
> single 811. He ran it in grounded grid with tons of negative RF
> feedback (grid lifted way off RF ground with a small capacitor) so that
> the gain was only a little greater than unity.
>
> As I recall, the input RF driving power was 900 watts and the output
> power was 1000W, the other 100W being supplied by the 811. But since
> amplifiers are rated by output power rather than [output - input] power,
> his dollars per watt came out at something like 5 cents/watt. :=)
>
> Al N1AL
>
>

--
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Pete Smith N4ZR

Re: KPA500 - just 500 watts?

In reply to this post by Jim Rogers, W4ATK

And I think a lot of the "skill" should be credited to the ops on the
other end who manage to pull out the QRP stations. That said, operator
skill is particularly important for any QRP station - I will never
understand why many still use straight keys, badly formed cw, and
unnecessary verbiage (like "/QRP", for example).

73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 1/25/2011 1:55 PM, JAMES ROGERS wrote:

> The QRPer's mantra, "Skill not power"
>
> 73s Jim, W4ATK
> On Jan 25, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>
>> [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>>> The question of "how much power is enough?" is always good for a lot
>>> of chatter.
>> Indeed.
>>
>> This thread is always entertaining to those (including myself) who
>> have completed DXCC with less than 5 watts and a random wire. Not that
>> I'm biased. It was a struggle, and there's definitely a time and place
>> for more power.
>>
>> But occasionally I like to drop down to nearly nothing to remind
>> myself that, when the bands are really open, you *can* do it with a
>> lot less.
>>
>> Eric doesn't talk about his own QRP accomplishments much, but he
>> worked over 100 countries on a NorCal 40 (one of my first designs)
>> running just a few watts. In fact that's how we first met; I think he
>> called me to (a) thank me for the design and (b) boast just a little
>> to someone who would appreciate it :)
>>
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> JIM ROGERS, W4ATK
> [hidden email]
> http://web.me.com/jimrogers_w4atk
> K3/100 P3
> K2/10
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
>

Rick Dettinger-3

Re: KPA500 - just 500 watts?

I agree with the first two. I appreciate a clean output from my
transmitter and I would much rather use a bug. More fun!
But /QRP is not redundant, if that is what I want to communicate, then
I use it. I don't see it as a bad operating practice. I find that it
encourages other QRP ops to give me a try. Those are often the most
enjoyable contacts. 2 way QRP.

73,
Rick
K7milliwatt

> I will never
> understand why many still use straight keys, badly formed cw, and
> unnecessary verbiage (like "/QRP", for example).
>
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR

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Julian, G4ILO

Re: KPA500 - just 500 watts?

In reply to this post by Pete Smith N4ZR

It's a myth that QRP stations are always weak. Sometimes, of course, they are. But 5W is only two S-points less than the 100W most people use. Antennas can make more difference than that, and no-one talks about those when having these silly "life is too short for QRP" arguments.

Pete Smith N4ZR wrote

And I think a lot of the "skill" should be credited to the ops on the
other end who manage to pull out the QRP stations. That said, operator
skill is particularly important for any QRP station - I will never
understand why many still use straight keys, badly formed cw, and
unnecessary verbiage (like "/QRP", for example).

Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

Bill W4ZV

Re: KPA500 - just 500 watts?

In reply to this post by Pete Smith N4ZR

Pete Smith N4ZR wrote

And I think a lot of the "skill" should be credited to the ops on the
other end who manage to pull out the QRP stations.

I agree. Most of the credit should go the the station that copies QRP stations. It's one thing to generate a weak signal but entirely another to be able to *receive* weak signals. IMHO the latter is MUCH more difficult ...and more satisfying to me personally.

I enjoy operating QRP from portable sites using makeshift antennas but I give 99% of the credit to the guy on the other end.

73, Bill

P.S. I run 1.5 kW on Topband but always get a thrill working QRP callers.

http://www.eham.net/articles/10078

rlindzen

Re: KPA500 - just 500 watts?

In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO

I like to think of DXing as the ham counterpart of fishing, and QRP
as the counterpart of fly fishing.

Dick, WO1I K3 911

At 05:50 PM 1/25/2011, Julian, G4ILO wrote:

>It's a myth that QRP stations are always weak. Sometimes, of course, they
>are. But 5W is only two S-points less than the 100W most people use.
>Antennas can make more difference than that, and no-one talks about those
>when having these silly "life is too short for QRP" arguments.
>
>
>Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
> >
> > And I think a lot of the "skill" should be credited to the ops on the
> > other end who manage to pull out the QRP stations. That said, operator
> > skill is particularly important for any QRP station - I will never
> > understand why many still use straight keys, badly formed cw, and
> > unnecessary verbiage (like "/QRP", for example).
> >
> >
>
>
>-----
>Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222.
>* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
>* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
>* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html
>
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KPA500-just-500-watts-tp5959017p5960882.html
>Sent from the [QRO] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>______________________________________________________________
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Edward R Cole

Re: KPA500 - just 500 watts?

In reply to this post by k0wa@swbell.net

I just read the mail since I am not able to entertain getting a KPA500, etal.

But my experience running my K3/10 on 80m SSB is everyone hears me
FB. That is not 100w its 12w! So when the noise floor is S3 and I
am S8 (30-dB S/N) and the next guy is S9+10 it gets kinda crazy-funny
doncha think! I even check into the Elecraft Sunday 20m net
occassionally. Not real loud but once the antennas point up to me I get in.

OK, I will be building a 300w sspa when I clear out the line-up of
projects ahead of it. My cost est. is $2/watt not including cost of 28v PS.
I've discussed what it is I am building, before. I don't really want
to discuss it on the reflector. If you go to my website and click
"About KL7UW" link, I list my future projects at the bottom of the page.

73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
EME: 144-1.4kw*, 432-100w*, 1296-testing*, 3400-winter?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
======================================
*temp not in service
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: KPA500 - just 500 watts?

In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO

QRP, 100 watts, or QRO at 500 watts+ -- they all have their place.
If one is operating portable with batteries on a mountain hike, there is
no other reasonable choice than QRP, and sometimes antennas are
compromise for that situation too, but many do enjoy making a bunch of
contacts in that environment.

100 watts (well somewhere between 50 and 100) is normal for me at the
home station. I will drop to 5 watts if operating near the QRP
"watering holes" just so I don't cover up other low power stations, but
for most causal QSOs, I run between 50 and 100 watts.

I will have an amplifier on the air someday (I have done 55 years of
hamming without one), but it will be used when conditions warrant it.
Yes, contests often warrant it, and when trying for that elusive DX in a
pileup. However, I will continue to run near the 100 watt level most of
the time. Some of the guys I talk to on 80 meter SSB tend to razz me
about not running more power, but they can hear me, so why run more - if
I am only S-7 on their meter, but perfectly Q5 copy, why should I run up
the electric bill just because they are running the legal limit and
bragging about their S-9+60 reports. I just don't see the point. Oh
yes, some of these guys are running ESSB too, but I prefer to limit my
bandwidth. Just because it can be done is not a valid reason to do it IMHO.

"To everything Turn, Turn, Turn --- To every thing there is a season,
and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" - based on the Book of
Ecclesiastes and put to music by Pete Seegar in 1959.

73,
Don W3FPR

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Guy, K2AV

Re: KPA500 - just 500 watts?

In reply to this post by Rick Dettinger-3

I can't begin to tell you all the times on 40m from NY4A in a DX contest
that the /QRP was all that I was getting, just because I could recognize the
pattern. And, in Murphy-esque form the QRP station would waste all the QSB
peaks on /QRP. I don't know why they bother. All the work is on my end.
*I* should get extra points for copying QRP stations, as in the Stew Perry.

If you want people to copy you on the other end when the path is minimal, do
NOT send /QRP on your call. We ALREADY know you either aren't running any
power, or are antenna-challenged, or the path is almost not there, or any or
all of the above.

/QRP *IS* a waste of time in a contest. Save it for casual QSO's when you
know the other end can copy you.

On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Rick Dettinger <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I agree with the first two. I appreciate a clean output from my
> transmitter and I would much rather use a bug. More fun!
> But /QRP is not redundant, if that is what I want to communicate, then
> I use it. I don't see it as a bad operating practice. I find that it
> encourages other QRP ops to give me a try. Those are often the most
> enjoyable contacts. 2 way QRP.
>
>
> 73,
> Rick
> K7milliwatt
>
>
> > I will never
> > understand why many still use straight keys, badly formed cw, and
> > unnecessary verbiage (like "/QRP", for example).
> >
> >
> > 73, Pete N4ZR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Brian J. Linn

Re: KPA500 - just 500 watts?

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

It's also great for those of us using indoor antennas, where 1500 watts is
not a reality.

Brian
KD0HII

500 W (+) is the ideal output level for many operators and situations.
Call it "medium" power, if you will -- but the KPA500 can get the job
done, while taking up just a K3's worth of space on your desk. And you
can pick it up and move it if you need to.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Bill K9YEQ

Re: KPA500 - just 500 watts?

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

I love QRP but run THP 2.5kfx generally in the evening on 75m as I cannot be
heard well without the 1.5KW out. I don't like the life's too short for QRP
statement as I have had some of my best contacts at less than 2W. I usually
run 2W or less. I love 100 MW!

Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 5:55 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 - just 500 watts?

QRP, 100 watts, or QRO at 500 watts+ -- they all have their place.
If one is operating portable with batteries on a mountain hike, there is no
other reasonable choice than QRP, and sometimes antennas are compromise for
that situation too, but many do enjoy making a bunch of contacts in that
environment.

100 watts (well somewhere between 50 and 100) is normal for me at the home
station. I will drop to 5 watts if operating near the QRP "watering holes"
just so I don't cover up other low power stations, but for most causal QSOs,
I run between 50 and 100 watts.

I will have an amplifier on the air someday (I have done 55 years of hamming
without one), but it will be used when conditions warrant it.
Yes, contests often warrant it, and when trying for that elusive DX in a
pileup. However, I will continue to run near the 100 watt level most of the
time. Some of the guys I talk to on 80 meter SSB tend to razz me about not
running more power, but they can hear me, so why run more - if I am only S-7
on their meter, but perfectly Q5 copy, why should I run up the electric bill
just because they are running the legal limit and bragging about their
S-9+60 reports. I just don't see the point. Oh yes, some of these guys are
running ESSB too, but I prefer to limit my bandwidth. Just because it can
be done is not a valid reason to do it IMHO.

"To everything Turn, Turn, Turn --- To every thing there is a season, and a
time to every purpose under the heaven:" - based on the Book of Ecclesiastes
and put to music by Pete Seegar in 1959.

73,
Don W3FPR

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Jeff Cochrane - VK4XA

Re: KPA500 - just 500 watts?

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

juergen piezo

Re: KPA500 - just 500 watts?

In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen

Hi Paul

Thats what I am more interested in, the IMD performance of the future KPA500.

I own a Harris RF355 that I would like to replace with a solid state amp.
I use this AMP in my remote station. It is a maintenance headache with limited integration potential.

Unfortunately non of the solid state offerings on the market have acceptable IMD performance. I seriously doubt that there will ever be a solid state amplifier manufactured for the ham market that will approach the IMD performance of the the Harris RF355 with the single 3cx800.

I wish Acom would produce a Autotune amplifier that uses a pair of 3cx800PX's At least the IMD performance would be a certainty.

I dont know what devices the KPA500 uses?

73
John
--- On Tue, 1/25/11, Paul Christensen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Paul Christensen <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 - just 500 watts?
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 8:47 AM
> > Speaking of dollars per watt,
> I'm presently using a homebrew pair of 813's
> > which produce
> > 800 watts (QSK but no 6M) and I have less than $400
> into it. $0.50 dollars
> > per watt.
>
> Impressive, Vic. I would love to see some photos of your
> amp! In addition
> to the price/watt factor, perhaps equally important is a
> figure that takes
> into account price in relation to IMD in -dBc per $.
>
> Paul, W9AC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Johnny Siu

KPA500 - just 500 watts?

In reply to this post by Brian J. Linn

Hi Brian,

Yes, correct.  I live in high rise apartment in urban area of Hong Kong
overlooking the spectacular Victoria Harbour. I have my hamstick mounted on the
window frame.

I have never turned my ICPW1to full 1KW power which is a waste to my linear.
KPA500 seems suitable for my case. I am awaiting further details so as to
decide between it and SPE Expert 1ka. I will look at the total costs of KPA500
+ KAT500 for comparison.

I trust the decision of Elecraft for just 500 watts could be as follows;
1.    the most marketable segment in terms of price and RF power;
2.    the kit version can be easily handled by most kit builders;
3.    the kit version will have same performance as the assembled version;
4.    material costs of KPA500 are reasonably cheap but with reliable
quality leading to higher profit margin
5.    the shipping weight of the end product is not prohibitively heavy so that
overseas sales are possible.

Wayne is a good RF engineer whereas Eric is a good business man (Sorry, I don't
use the word 'excellent' because I would like to push them harder !!). I am
always interested in Elecraft's business proposition and sometimes use it as
case study in business school during my part time lecturing.

73

Johnny VR2XMC

________________________________
寄件人﹕ Brian Linn <[hidden email]>
收件人﹕ Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
傳送日期﹕ 2011/1/26 (三) 7:59:59 AM
主題： Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 - just 500 watts?

It's also great for those of us using indoor antennas, where 1500 watts is
not a reality.

Brian
KD0HII

500 W (+) is the ideal output level for many operators and situations.
Call it "medium" power, if you will -- but the KPA500 can get the job
done, while taking up just a K3's worth of space on your desk. And you
can pick it up and move it if you need to.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Johnny Siu

KPA500 - just 500 watts?

In reply to this post by Jeff Cochrane - VK4XA

Hello Jeff,

Perhaps, this explains why parallel importers (grey importers) can survive in
Australia. These parallel importers even have their own technical teams, highly
qualified technicians to provide product warranty on their own.

cheers,

Johnny VR2XMC

________________________________
寄件人﹕ Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF <[hidden email]>
收件人﹕ [hidden email]
傳送日期﹕ 2011/1/26 (三) 8:38:02 AM
主題： Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 - just 500 watts?

Hi Bill,
I too would love to run at 100MW but the electricity bill would be a real
killer! :-)
On the other hand, 100mW may be a better proposition though and alot of fun can
be had at that power level too.
(I run my K3/100 barefoot, have a look at the grossly inflated prices various
Australian suppliers charge for gear here and you'll know why most Aussies dont
run more than 100W.)

Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF
Innisfail, QLD, Australia
Elecraft K3# 4257

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill K9YEQ
To: [hidden email] ; [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 - just 500 watts?

I love QRP but run THP 2.5kfx generally in the evening on 75m as I cannot be
heard well without the 1.5KW out. I don't like the life's too short for QRP
statement as I have had some of my best contacts at less than 2W. I usually
run 2W or less. I love 100 MW!

Bill
K9YEQ

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