KRC2 Band Decoder
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OK, I know some of you will chuckle at my question, so be gentle.
Please tell an old timer Ham (33 yrs) what the terms SOURCE and SINK mean. Thanks es 73, Tom, N5GE K3 #806, K3 #1055 XV144, XV432 W1 and other small kits. http://www.n5ge.com ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
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Source = the device outputs current
Sinks = the device pulls the current to ground. Generally these terms are used with digital logic. To oversimplify, if the logic gate is in the high state, it has a positive voltage. If a load, such as a resistor or relay is connected to the logic gate output, the gate is said to "source current" into the load. If the logic gate is in the low state, current may be input to the gate. For example one end of a relay coil is attached to positive voltage source and the other end to the logic gate. When low, current flows from the source through the relay coil into the logic gate where the current is "sunk." Note that this explanation follows the engineering convention of positive current flow. Jack Radio Amateur N5GE wrote: > OK, I know some of you will chuckle at my question, so be gentle. > > Please tell an old timer Ham (33 yrs) what the terms SOURCE and SINK > mean. > > Thanks es 73, > > Tom, N5GE > K3 #806, K3 #1055 > XV144, XV432 > W1 and other small kits. > http://www.n5ge.com > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Jack Smith wrote:
> Source = the device outputs current > Sinks = the device pulls the current to ground. In practical terms, you can connect a 12v dc relay to a source terminal of the KRC2 and ground the other side of it. To use a sink terminal, connect +12v dc to one terminal of the relay and ground the other one. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by N5GE
Tom;
The answers given are very accurate. Now let me give you one that will help you remember. If you go to the kitchen sink and turn on the faucet, water will come out of the SOURCE. It then runs into the basin and drains down the SINK. Two engineering degrees, 30 years of engineering design experience, and that is how I still remember these things. ;-) If you need any KRC2 help, just yell. We are around... On May 29, 2009, at 9:17 AM, Radio Amateur N5GE wrote: > OK, I know some of you will chuckle at my question, so be gentle. > > Please tell an old timer Ham (33 yrs) what the terms SOURCE and SINK > mean. > > Thanks es 73, > > Tom, N5GE > K3 #806, K3 #1055 > XV144, XV432 > W1 and other small kits. > http://www.n5ge.com > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - Jack Brindle, W6FB --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: KRC2 Band Decoder
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In reply to this post by Vic K2VCO
Vic K2VCO wrote: > Jack Smith wrote: >> Source = the device outputs current >> Sinks = the device pulls the current to ground. > > In practical terms, you can connect a 12v dc relay to a source terminal of the KRC2 and > ground the other side of it. > > To use a sink terminal, connect +12v dc to one terminal of the relay and ground the other one. Err, you mean connect the other one to the "sink terminal" :) You should also have a diode across the coil of the relay, of course, so your "sink terminal" doesn't get slammed as the magnetic field collapses when it's turned off. ~Iain / N6ML ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Iain MacDonnell - N6ML wrote:
> > > Vic K2VCO wrote: >> Jack Smith wrote: >>> Source = the device outputs current >>> Sinks = the device pulls the current to ground. >> >> In practical terms, you can connect a 12v dc relay to a source >> terminal of the KRC2 and ground the other side of it. >> >> To use a sink terminal, connect +12v dc to one terminal of the relay >> and ground the other one. > > Err, you mean connect the other one to the "sink terminal" :) > > You should also have a diode across the coil of the relay, of course, > so your "sink terminal" doesn't get slammed as the magnetic field > collapses when it's turned off. Yes, I meant that. Ground the relay through the sink terminal. And you are right about the diode. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by N5GE
On Fri, 29 May 2009 11:17:51 -0500, Radio Amateur N5GE <[hidden email]>
wrote: >OK, I know some of you will chuckle at my question, so be gentle. > >Please tell an old timer Ham (33 yrs) what the terms SOURCE and SINK >mean. > >Thanks es 73, > >Tom, N5GE >K3 #806, K3 #1055 >XV144, XV432 >W1 and other small kits. >http://www.n5ge.com > Thanks to all who answered my question. I now understand SOURCE (faucet) and SINK. I'm building a KRC2 and intend to connect it to an Ameritron 5 Connector switch box for the time being. To make sure I have understood correctly. Am I correct in saying each of the control wires going to the switch box should be connected to the SOURCE and the ground connected to the SINK? Thanks again, Tom, N5GE K3 #806, K3 #1055 XV144, XV432 W1 and other small kits. http://www.n5ge.com ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
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Re: KRC2 Band Decoder
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In reply to this post by N5GE
Matt/W6NIA notes, off-list, that the driver in the KRC2 has protection that makes the diode unnecessary ... but, personally, I'd still include it anyway - it's just good practice... ~Iain / N6ML [hidden email] wrote: > I cannot post to the group from this account right now, so feel free to > paraphrase or repost. > > If he's using the KRC2, diodes won't be needed for either sink or source > outputs. The TPIC6C595 driver includes transient protection for both type of > output... > > 73, > matt W6NIA > > > May 29, 2009 12:16:12 PM, [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > Vic K2VCO wrote: > > Jack Smith wrote: > >> Source = the device outputs current > >> Sinks = the device pulls the current to ground. > > > > In practical terms, you can connect a 12v dc relay to a source terminal > of the KRC2 and > > ground the other side of it. > > > > To use a sink terminal, connect +12v dc to one terminal of the relay and > ground the other one. > > Err, you mean connect the other one to the "sink terminal" :) > > You should also have a diode across the coil of the relay, of course, > so your "sink terminal" doesn't get slammed as the magnetic field > collapses when it's turned off. > > ~Iain / N6ML > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I agree with Iain on this. The TPIC6595 drivers in the KRC2 _do_ have
diode protection built in. Still, it is an excellent idea to have diodes across the relays, next to the relays themselves. This is how my own relay box is designed. And yes, we Elecraft folks do use our own products, extensively. It's far more fun that way. On May 29, 2009, at 12:19 PM, Iain MacDonnell - N6ML wrote: > > Matt/W6NIA notes, off-list, that the driver in the KRC2 has protection > that makes the diode unnecessary ... but, personally, I'd still > include > it anyway - it's just good practice... > > ~Iain / N6ML > > > > [hidden email] wrote: >> I cannot post to the group from this account right now, so feel >> free to >> paraphrase or repost. >> >> If he's using the KRC2, diodes won't be needed for either sink or >> source >> outputs. The TPIC6C595 driver includes transient protection for >> both type of >> output... >> >> 73, >> matt W6NIA >> >> >> May 29, 2009 12:16:12 PM, [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >> >> Vic K2VCO wrote: >>> Jack Smith wrote: >>>> Source = the device outputs current >>>> Sinks = the device pulls the current to ground. >>> >>> In practical terms, you can connect a 12v dc relay to a source >>> terminal >> of the KRC2 and >>> ground the other side of it. >>> >>> To use a sink terminal, connect +12v dc to one terminal of the >>> relay and >> ground the other one. >> >> Err, you mean connect the other one to the "sink terminal" :) >> >> You should also have a diode across the coil of the relay, of >> course, >> so your "sink terminal" doesn't get slammed as the magnetic field >> collapses when it's turned off. >> >> ~Iain / N6ML >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email] >> > >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/ >> donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -Jack Brindle, W6FB ======================================================================= ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by N5GE
Radio Amateur N5GE wrote:
> To make sure I have understood correctly. Am I correct in saying each > of the control wires going to the switch box should be connected to > the SOURCE and the ground connected to the SINK? > > Thanks again, > > Tom, N5GE > K3 #806, K3 #1055 > XV144, XV432 > W1 and other small kits. > http://www.n5ge.com > > While following this thread, I was thinking that someone would ask that question. The answer is "not quite". In your particular case, the ground wire from your relay box connects to one of the KRC2 "G" connectors (and the power supply common for the relays must also connect to a "G" connector) - your relay box requires power directed to the relay to be operated.. For some antenna relay boxes one terminal of the relay coil is connected to a voltage that matches the relay coil requirements (12 volts is usual for amateur equipment) - and the operating switch connects the other side of the relay coil to ground when that relay is to operate. If your antenna relay box is of that type, then you would connect the relay coils to the appropriate SINK in the KRC2. In other words, the relay box contains the power for the relays, and the switch in the shack connects the ground for the relay to be operated (the power provided by the relay box goes "down the SINK drain"). Don't forget that the relay power supply common must also connect to the KRC2 (at one of the "G" connectors). Other relay boxes contain no power, and all the relays in the box have one of the relay's coil connected to ground - and the relay positive coil terminal must have power delivered to it (SOURCED) to operate. This is the case with the Ameritron RCS-8VX switch. The relay that is to operate must be provided with 12 volts, all the relays are connected to ground. So you would connect the relay power supply to the KRC2 "V" connector (and power supply ground to "G:) and the wires to the relays to the appropriate band (SOURCE or high side) outputs - those are the ones silkscreened on the board *without* the bar across the top of the label. Since in this case the relay power required is 12 volts, you can connect the relay (and KRC2) power to the coaxial power jack instead of to the "V" and "G" connectors. If the relay voltage is greater than 15 volts, you *must* use the "V" and "G" connectors when using the SOURCE drivers in the KRC2. Be certain the relay common is connected to the KRC2 "G" connector to complete the common path. In this case, the power for the relays comes from the relay power supply (that is equivalent to the city water supply in Jack's analogy) and is controlled *to* a particular relay by the source driver (that particular faucet) connected to the relay coil. While one *CAN* use both the source and sink drivers together, normal usage will use one or the other. As an aside, I might mention, that those familiar with relay logic might see a vast variety of possibilities for doing relay control using both the source and sink drivers, since the drivers may be "wire ORed" together. Add a few diodes to help with the isolation and a lot of logic functions can be performed with the KRC2 outputs and some relays. This was intended to be informative, not confusing. If you found it confusing, ask about it and I will try again. 73, Don W3FPR ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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