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KRC2 - More than one antenna per band? Aux outputs?

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Dana Roode

KRC2 - More than one antenna per band? Aux outputs?

Greetings,

Is there a way to select more than one antenna per band with the KRC2?
IE, I have a 40 meter 4 square and a dipole, can I automatically
select one when I go to 40 and still be able to select the other on
manual command? I need to do this remotely.

Similar question, there are a few Aux outputs on the KRC2, how does
one control those remotely (that is, via the serial interface or some
other means)? I have to select directions on my 4 square, and switch
in and out a series capacitor on my 80 meter vertical for SSB.

Dana, K6NR
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: KRC2 - More than one antenna per band? Aux outputs?

Dana,

The answer is - 'yes' or 'maybe'.

You can use 'relay logic' to obtain many combinations with the KRC2.
You can easily select up to 3 antennas per band using the AC1, AC2, and
AC3 outputs. Using additional decoding logic of the ACx outputs can
yield up to 8 combinations (but that takes external hardware).

If you connect the + side of a relay to The AC1 SOURCE DRIVER, and the -
side of the same relay to the 40 meter SINK driver, that relay will only
be activated when both AC1 and 40 meters are selected. Similarly,
connect the + side of another relay to the AC2 source driver and its -
side to the 40 meter sink driver and that relay will only be active when
both AC2 and 40 meters are selected - similarly for the AC3 output which
gives up to 3 antenna selections per band.
The outputs of the KRC2 can be "wire-ORed" together, and using both the
source drivers (+) and the sink drivers (-) at the relays, some logic
can be performed.
This scheme can be extended and the 'logic' functions available can be
expanded at length by the use of isolating diodes external to the KRC2.

So the answer is YES - the KRC2 can be used to switch between multiple
antennas for one band. I don't know if it will fully meet your needs,
that depends on how many combinations per band you have to manipulate.
A bit of skill with manipulating basic 'logical AND' and 'logical OR'
functions is helpful to create what you desire. If you can describe
your antenna switching needs in logic functions, the possibilities will
become more clear.

For the remote operation of the AC1, AC2 and AC3 outputs, I just don't
know - perhaps Jack Brindle will answer that.

73,
Don W3FPR

Dana Roode wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> Is there a way to select more than one antenna per band with the KRC2?
> IE, I have a 40 meter 4 square and a dipole, can I automatically
> select one when I go to 40 and still be able to select the other on
> manual command? I need to do this remotely.
>
> Similar question, there are a few Aux outputs on the KRC2, how does
> one control those remotely (that is, via the serial interface or some
> other means)? I have to select directions on my 4 square, and switch
> in and out a series capacitor on my 80 meter vertical for SSB.
>
> Dana, K6NR
> _______________________________________________
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n6wg

Re: KRC2 - More than one antenna per band? Aux outputs?

In reply to this post by Dana Roode

Hi Dana
I can think of several ways to do what you want,
but they will take a little bit of building. One way
would be for you to make a small relay box that would
connect your 40m antennas to ANT1 and ANT2
of the KAT3 ATU. On other bands, you could
have whatever other antennas you use connected
to ANT1 and ANT2, but switch to the 40m
antennas on 40m.
The relays in the box can be controlled from the
KRC2, which is the way I switch my antennas here.
GL and 73
Bob N6WG

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dana Roode" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:06 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] KRC2 - More than one antenna per band? Aux outputs?

AD6XY

Re: KRC2 - More than one antenna per band? Aux outputs?

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Apart from using the aux outputs, which is probably the best method, you might also be able to fool the K3 that there are two 40m bands by pretending there is a transverter with a 40m IF that needs 100W of drive, has a 0MHz LO and is connected to the main antenna. Then use the KRC2 transverter outputs to select the relay.

The KRC2 with the current firmware is not a particularly good match to the K3. Hopefully we will see new firmware soon but as you are remotely operating the K3, why not use a PC to select the relay with a USB relay board.

If it is a fairly simple configuration the K3 has two logic outputs that could probably be used, either directly to control two relays.

I take it you are aware you can also use the KRC2 buttons and its RS232 port.

Finally, if you wire up a toggle relay - e.g. via a flip-flop, you could make the relay alternate between antennas each time you select 40m.

Does anyone know if the auxbus commands are published ? I believe there would be a market for 3rd party add-ons if it is. RS232 does not announce everything, so can't be used passively.

Jack Brindle

Re: KRC2 - More than one antenna per band? Aux outputs?

The KRC2 in its standard configuration can easily select multiple antennas. When a new band is indicated by the radio, the KRC2 will select that band. The user can then select other bands through the F keys, sequentially moving up or down the antenna selectors.

It is also possible to select alternate antennas using the Acc outputs as others have pointed out. This is easily done in the standard personality/configuration, again using the F keys.

There are other possibilities in the KRC2 design that would allow for alternate antenna selection. Users have been very innovative in their use of the various ACC and XVT outputs in combination with the main band outputs to select antennas. It would also be possible to create alternate personalities for the device which show other behaviors. The KRC2ACC is an excellent example of this, providing significantly different behavior compared to the standard version. If the original poster (K6NR, I believe) is interested in this, he should give me a shout.

I would be very interested as to why you think the KRC2 is not a good match for the K3, and what improvements could be made to improve this. The KRC2 was originally designed to communicate with the K2 using the AuxBus or serial port. The K3 was designed to support the AuxBus to enable KRC2 support. This is the primary method for K3-KRC2 band switching, although it is also quite possible to use the K3's serial port for gathering band and other information as well.

As for the AuxBus signals, their definition is not public. Wayne has elaborated very good reasons for this. AuxBus system requirements are necessarily very strict, and if not handled properly could lead to rather severe problems within the K2 system environment.

We are always interested in suggestions for improvements to Elecraft products. If anyone has suggestions for the KRC2, please give me a shout. Many product improvements come from the suggestions of the great customers Elecraft enjoys.

On Jan 7, 2009, at 10:39 AM, AD6XY wrote:

Apart from using the aux outputs, which is probably the best method, you
might also be able to fool the K3 that there are two 40m bands by pretending
there is a transverter with a 40m IF that needs 100W of drive, has a 0MHz LO
and is connected to the main antenna. Then use the KRC2 transverter outputs
to select the relay.

The KRC2 with the current firmware is not a particularly good match to the
K3. Hopefully we will see new firmware soon but as you are remotely
operating the K3, why not use a PC to select the relay with a USB relay
board.

If it is a fairly simple configuration the K3 has two logic outputs that
could probably be used, either directly to control two relays.

I take it you are aware you can also use the KRC2 buttons and its RS232
port.

Finally, if you wire up a toggle relay - e.g. via a flip-flop, you could
make the relay alternate between antennas each time you select 40m.

Does anyone know if the auxbus commands are published ? I believe there
would be a market for 3rd party add-ons if it is. RS232 does not announce
everything, so can't be used passively.

- Jack Brindle, W6FB

Elecraft Engineering

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dana Roode

Re: KRC2 - More than one antenna per band? Aux outputs?

Jack et al,

Thank you for your replies regarding the KRC2. I may have missed it
in the discussion, but I don't recall anyone indicating how to control
the AUX outputs REMOTELY (using the F-Keys won't help me). My station
is located 80 miles away from me, I would need to be able to do this
via RS232 commands to the KRC2, or to the K3 that trigger the proper
response in the KRC2.

I have a total of 8 antennas; my 80/160 meter vertical has two relays
that allow adding series capacitance or inductance; my 40 meter 4
square is steerable in 4 directions via 2 more relays; I have
monobanders for 20 and 15, with a tribander I use on 10 and as a
second 20/15m antenna. I have this all setup now using an old Kachina
product and a multiplexer I built but it is time to retire that
approach (http://roodes.com/k6nr/remote/index.html).

Probably not quite what the KRC2 is designed for, but I wanted to double check.

Dana, K6NR

On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Jack Brindle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The KRC2 in its standard configuration can easily select multiple antennas.
> When a new band is indicated by the radio, the KRC2 will select that band.
> The user can then select other bands through the F keys, sequentially moving
> up or down the antenna selectors.
> It is also possible to select alternate antennas using the Acc outputs as
> others have pointed out. This is easily done in the standard
> personality/configuration, again using the F keys.
>
> There are other possibilities in the KRC2 design that would allow for
> alternate antenna selection. Users have been very innovative in their use of
> the various ACC and XVT outputs in combination with the main band outputs to
> select antennas. It would also be possible to create alternate personalities
> for the device which show other behaviors. The KRC2ACC is an excellent
> example of this, providing significantly different behavior compared to the
> standard version. If the original poster (K6NR, I believe) is interested in
> this, he should give me a shout.
>
> I would be very interested as to why you think the KRC2 is not a good match
> for the K3, and what improvements could be made to improve this. The KRC2
> was originally designed to communicate with the K2 using the AuxBus or
> serial port. The K3 was designed to support the AuxBus to enable KRC2
> support. This is the primary method for K3-KRC2 band switching, although it
> is also quite possible to use the K3's serial port for gathering band and
> other information as well.
> As for the AuxBus signals, their definition is not public. Wayne has
> elaborated very good reasons for this. AuxBus system requirements are
> necessarily very strict, and if not handled properly could lead to rather
> severe problems within the K2 system environment.
>
> We are always interested in suggestions for improvements to Elecraft
> products. If anyone has suggestions for the KRC2, please give me a shout.
> Many product improvements come from the suggestions of the great customers
> Elecraft enjoys.
>
> On Jan 7, 2009, at 10:39 AM, AD6XY wrote:
>
> Apart from using the aux outputs, which is probably the best method, you
> might also be able to fool the K3 that there are two 40m bands by pretending
> there is a transverter with a 40m IF that needs 100W of drive, has a 0MHz LO
> and is connected to the main antenna. Then use the KRC2 transverter outputs
> to select the relay.
>
> The KRC2 with the current firmware is not a particularly good match to the
> K3. Hopefully we will see new firmware soon but as you are remotely
> operating the K3, why not use a PC to select the relay with a USB relay
> board.
>
> If it is a fairly simple configuration the K3 has two logic outputs that
> could probably be used, either directly to control two relays.
>
> I take it you are aware you can also use the KRC2 buttons and its RS232
> port.
>
> Finally, if you wire up a toggle relay - e.g. via a flip-flop, you could
> make the relay alternate between antennas each time you select 40m.
>
> Does anyone know if the auxbus commands are published ? I believe there
> would be a market for 3rd party add-ons if it is. RS232 does not announce
> everything, so can't be used passively.
>
>
>
> - Jack Brindle, W6FB
>
> Elecraft Engineering
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

AD6XY

Re: KRC2 - More than one antenna per band? Aux outputs?

Nice photos, I am green with Envy.

This is what I was trying to imply by pretending there is a trasnverter so you can have more than one setting per band, but as you appear to have one, why not just use the LP remote for all of this?

Mike

Dana Roode

Re: KRC2 - More than one antenna per band? Aux outputs?

Mike,

Ok on the transverter angle, I understand now.

I have exhausted the LP-Remote's 16 relays for other control functions
(selecting receive antennas, powering on the K3, turning stuff on and
off). One option was to continue a past discussion with Larry (N8LP)
about an expansion board, which LP-Remote has provisions for. The
KRC2 was an option I was exploring, but I also have a Hamation relay
controller that may do the job for me. It is a network based relay
controller and Hamation has modified the software to allow me to
control the relay driver remotely. Now, I need to set it up.

Dana

On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:20 PM, AD6XY <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Nice photos, I am green with Envy.
>
> This is what I was trying to imply by pretending there is a trasnverter so
> you can have more than one setting per band, but as you appear to have one,
> why not just use the LP remote for all of this?
>
> Mike
> --
> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/KRC2---More-than-one-antenna-per-band--Aux-outputs--tp2120977p2153707.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

Jack Brindle

Re: KRC2 - More than one antenna per band? Aux outputs?

In reply to this post by Dana Roode

Dana;

I am advised that the K3 can indeed change the KRC2 ACC settings. The KRC2 menu contains the settings that would need to be changed. With this in mind, it should be rather easy to devise a data sequence to have the K3 change the settings.

So, with this in mind, I believe the answer is yes to your question - the KRC2 can do the job you are asking about, remotely changing the antennas for you.

Hope this helps.

Jack Brindle, W6FB

-----Original Message-----

>From: Dana Roode <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Jan 13, 2009 3:22 PM
>To: AD6XY <[hidden email]>
>Cc: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KRC2 - More than one antenna per band? Aux outputs?
>
>Mike,
>
>Ok on the transverter angle, I understand now.
>
>I have exhausted the LP-Remote's 16 relays for other control functions
>(selecting receive antennas, powering on the K3, turning stuff on and
>off). One option was to continue a past discussion with Larry (N8LP)
>about an expansion board, which LP-Remote has provisions for. The
>KRC2 was an option I was exploring, but I also have a Hamation relay
>controller that may do the job for me. It is a network based relay
>controller and Hamation has modified the software to allow me to
>control the relay driver remotely. Now, I need to set it up.
>
> Dana
>
>
>On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:20 PM, AD6XY <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Nice photos, I am green with Envy.
>>
>> This is what I was trying to imply by pretending there is a trasnverter so
>> you can have more than one setting per band, but as you appear to have one,
>> why not just use the LP remote for all of this?
>>
>> Mike
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/KRC2---More-than-one-antenna-per-band--Aux-outputs--tp2120977p2153707.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Post to: [hidden email]
>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>
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