KW Amp Prices
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All of the current breed of KW solid state amps use
8 each MRF-150 Mosfets in the output stage. 1000 watts keydown output is the maximum you can squeeze out of those 8 transistors and still have a margin of safety. The least expensive of the lot is the new Tokyo Hypower HL2KFX at around $2600 plus $330 shipping. Its a bare bones KW amp at 54 lbs with its built in switching power supply. If you add a KW autotuner to the combination, the price starts to get up near the $4000 range. Very few in the hobby can afford it. So there is a very limited prospect for sales unless the price could be kept below 3K. Here is the web link for a very interesting amp. http://www.thp.co.jp/thp%20hp%20Eng/amateur_eng/hf_eng.htm#2kfx ---------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In a message dated 4/25/2005 9:15:57 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [hidden email] writes: The least expensive of the lot is the new Tokyo Hypower HL2KFX at around $2600 plus $330 shipping. Its a bare bones KW amp at 54 lbs with its built in switching power supply. If you add a KW autotuner to the combination, the price starts to get up near the $4000 range. Very few in the hobby can afford it. So there is a very limited prospect for sales unless the price could be kept below 3K. Here is the web link for a very interesting amp. Although I can afford it, they will play "H E double toothpick" selling me one at anything close to that price--probably at any price. Amps are, in my view, the most overpriced pieces of gear in the hamshack. If you spend one tenth of that amount sprucing up your antenna system you will get more benefit. The worst thing that ever happened to ham radio was when they allowed amplifiers that run more power than the local commercial radio station. The U.K. allows, I think, a maximum of 400 watts---or is that Australia? Anyway, that's plenty! From that level, the most you can improve your signal is about 1 "S" unit--unless you cheat! Anything more than a couple hundred watts just creates QRM--it becomes brute force rather than technique! Obviously I'm spitting in the wind, but I just don't see the fun of running that much power. In truth, I'm just a tad disappointed that a company, which has such strong roots in lower power equipment and innovation, finds it necessary to jump into the QRO market. I realize that everyone has to make a living somehow, but the incredible talent in that company could seemingly be much better utilized in a thousand other ways than amps. I can only conclude that the markup must be phenominal! Dave W7AQK _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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[hidden email] wrote:
> If you spend one > tenth of that amount sprucing up your antenna system you will get more benefit. If you already have a 'basic tribander' or similar on a 40-foot tower, the next step up is to a 'serious' beam on a 70 foot tower. That will cost you more than most amps, and in many cases is impossible because of neighbors, zoning, etc. If your antenna is currently a hamstick, then, yes, spruce it up first! > Anything more than a couple hundred watts just > creates QRM--it becomes brute force rather than technique! Suppose you have a couple of hundred watts and you are trying to work DX on 160 meters. There will be lots of times that you call a station and he simply doesn't hear you. If you are just below the noise level at his location, a couple of DB may put you just over, and you will be heard. You can work a lot of DX with low power, but that doesn't mean that there's no value in higher power. > In truth, I'm just a tad disappointed that a company, which has such strong > roots in lower power equipment and innovation, finds it necessary to jump into > the QRO market. I realize that everyone has to make a living somehow, but > the incredible talent in that company could seemingly be much better utilized > in a thousand other ways than amps. I can only conclude that the markup must > be phenominal! I find this statement offensive. Your personal prejudices are not moral imperatives. There's nothing evil about QRO, and a manufacturer selling QRO equipment is not profiting from sin. Given the short transmitting duty cycle and the relatively small amount of time we spend operating, the additional energy expended by QRO station compared to a 100 watt station is small indeed. The markup is not phenomenal, by the way. If you have ever built high power gear either with tubes or solid-state devices, you know that the cost of the components is much greater. In the US we are permitted by our license to use 1500 watts. We are also required to use the minimum amount of power necessary to maintain communication in any particular case. I suggest that we improve ourselves morally (and legally) by trying to follow this last rule rather than beating up on the manfacturers of amplifiers. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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We mostly live in high rise multi-storey condominium in Hong Kong. Outdoor
huge antennas are definitely out of question. While most of the time using QRP, QRO is not a sin especially in some marginal and difficult situation. In case necessary, I use my K2 to drive my ICOM ICPW-1 to get about 300 watts. It is nothing wrong with an AMP kit. It is educational. How to use the AMP is a matter of operation practice and the AMP itself is nothing evil. I am looking forward to having an AMP Kit which I can build and maintain. I love my PW-1 but it has to be sent back to factory if there is anything wrong. Shall we think more positively? The skill learnt from building an AMP kit should be different. It is my 2 cents view. 72/73 Johnny Siu VR2XMC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vic Rosenthal" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Cc: <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KW Amp Prices > [hidden email] wrote: > >> If you spend one tenth of that amount sprucing up your antenna system >> you will get more benefit. > > If you already have a 'basic tribander' or similar on a 40-foot tower, the > next step up is to a 'serious' beam on a 70 foot tower. That will cost > you more than most amps, and in many cases is impossible because of > neighbors, zoning, etc. If your antenna is currently a hamstick, then, > yes, spruce it up first! > >> Anything more than a couple hundred watts just creates QRM--it becomes >> brute force rather than technique! > > Suppose you have a couple of hundred watts and you are trying to work DX > on 160 meters. There will be lots of times that you call a station and he > simply doesn't hear you. If you are just below the noise level at his > location, a couple of DB may put you just over, and you will be heard. > You can work a lot of DX with low power, but that doesn't mean that > there's no value in higher power. > >> In truth, I'm just a tad disappointed that a company, which has such >> strong roots in lower power equipment and innovation, finds it necessary >> to jump into the QRO market. I realize that everyone has to make a >> living somehow, but the incredible talent in that company could >> seemingly be much better utilized in a thousand other ways than amps. I >> can only conclude that the markup must be phenominal! > > I find this statement offensive. Your personal prejudices are not moral > imperatives. There's nothing evil about QRO, and a manufacturer selling > QRO equipment is not profiting from sin. Given the short transmitting > duty cycle and the relatively small amount of time we spend operating, the > additional energy expended by QRO station compared to a 100 watt station > is small indeed. The markup is not phenomenal, by the way. If you have > ever built high power gear either with tubes or solid-state devices, you > know that the cost of the components is much greater. > > In the US we are permitted by our license to use 1500 watts. We are also > required to use the minimum amount of power necessary to maintain > communication in any particular case. I suggest that we improve ourselves > morally (and legally) by trying to follow this last rule rather than > beating up on the manfacturers of amplifiers. > > -- > 73, > Vic, K2VCO > Fresno CA > http://www.qsl.net/k2vco Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by DYARNES
So far I have not heard anyone mention the BEST amps made in Colorado. At
2:55AM in the morning I can't recall the name but they are commercial grade. Ten Tec manufactures some very good amps as well pearly Paul Gates Elecraft K1 #231 [hidden email] ----- Original Message ----- From: <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 12:56 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KW Amp Prices > > In a message dated 4/25/2005 9:15:57 PM US Mountain Standard Time, > [hidden email] writes: > > The least expensive of the lot is the new Tokyo Hypower > HL2KFX at around $2600 plus $330 shipping. Its a bare > bones KW amp at 54 lbs with its built in switching power supply. > If you add a KW autotuner to the combination, the price starts > to get up near the $4000 range. Very few in the hobby can afford it. > So there is a very limited prospect for sales unless the price could > be kept below 3K. Here is the web link for a very interesting amp. > > > > > > Although I can afford it, they will play "H E double toothpick" selling me > one at anything close to that price--probably at any price. Amps are, in > my > view, the most overpriced pieces of gear in the hamshack. If you spend > one > tenth of that amount sprucing up your antenna system you will get more > benefit. > The worst thing that ever happened to ham radio was when they allowed > amplifiers that run more power than the local commercial radio station. > The U.K. > allows, I think, a maximum of 400 watts---or is that Australia? Anyway, > that's plenty! From that level, the most you can improve your signal is > about 1 > "S" unit--unless you cheat! Anything more than a couple hundred watts > just > creates QRM--it becomes brute force rather than technique! Obviously I'm > spitting in the wind, but I just don't see the fun of running that much > power. > In truth, I'm just a tad disappointed that a company, which has such > strong > roots in lower power equipment and innovation, finds it necessary to jump > into > the QRO market. I realize that everyone has to make a living somehow, > but > the incredible talent in that company could seemingly be much better > utilized > in a thousand other ways than amps. I can only conclude that the markup > must > be phenominal! > > Dave W7AQK > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Vic K2VCO
Vic,
I love your arguments: > Suppose you have a couple of hundred watts and you are trying > to work DX on 160 meters. There will be lots of times that > you call a station and he simply doesn't hear you. If you > are just below the noise level at his location, a couple of > DB may put you just over, and you will be heard. You can > work a lot of DX with low power, but that doesn't mean that > there's no value in higher power. But believe me, you even will have a much better s/n if you use your mobile phone and you can have lots of contacts all over the world with it and it´s cheaper!! And there is less QRM too and you will have no problems with tornados destroying your antennas. ;-) 73 de Peter, DL2FI _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by DYARNES
Hi all,
As long as we are all pre-supposing this thing because we can't _wait_ for the official announcement... Perhaps Elecraft is producing this for "International Repsect". QRP'rs all recognized early on that Elecraft products were the best. When the K2/100 came along, some, but not all, contesters and Dxpeditioners were converted. But think of how many hams would be convinced that Elecraft was the best if they produced the best amplifier ever made---better than any ETO. Now hams from all parts of the hobby would finally have their own reasons to recognize Elecraft as the best along with Collins, ETO, Heathkit, or whatever their highest standard is. For whatever reason, Elecraft would have finally given every ham something to consider as being the best. And with respect, comes sales, comes profit. Steve, W2MY -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 4/25/2005 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Vic K2VCO
On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:45:50 -0700, Vic Rosenthal wrote:
>Suppose you have a couple of hundred watts and you are trying to work DX on 160 >meters. There will be lots of times that you call a station and he simply >doesn't hear you. If you are just below the noise level at his location, a >couple of DB may put you just over, and you will be heard. You can work a lot >of DX with low power, but that doesn't mean that there's no value in higher power. Exactly. I live in the middle of Chicago, where I have rather limited antennas AND a high noise level. I can work 160 with 100 watts, and have worked all but two of the lower 48 with 100 watts), but the extra 10 dB provided by a Titan amp that I bought last summer increased my score in the ARRL 160 test significantly, and made it a lot more fun. The only way I could improve my antenna system here is to buy the houses on both sides of mine and put up towers to hold an antenna. Ya got an extra $2 Million laying around? In February, I worked a 160 contest from W6BX with 100 watts and a nice antenna. There, I worked 47 states in a weekend, as well as JA and D4B. But I could work a guy in RI that I could hear quite well, simply because he had the same sort of high noise level that I have at nome. Another 6-10 dB would have made it for us. Another point. When I try to work DX on 80 or 40 with 100 watts, we exchange signal reports and maybe our names, and we're done -- the copy is too rough to do more. When I do it with the Titan on-line, the guy on the other end wants to chat, and we can get to know each other. I am confident that whatever prices Wayne and Eric establish for their amps will be fair, and when I have time, I will build one or both. The cost of our kits includes far more than the parts -- good engineering takes time, the designs and circuit layouts must be built and tested, manuals must be written, parts must be chosen with an eye toward longevity, we want tech support, and 20 years from now we would like to be able to fix the amp when something goes wrong. Ten Tec has built some pretty decent amplfiers at fair prices, and I own three of them. 20 years later, the amps are still in fine shape and good values, but try to find replacement tubes or output transistors for some of them. Those decisions alone take time, a lot of judgement, and a well-polished crystal ball. And you never know when a major manufacturer is going to cut your knees out from underneath you (like Motorola and Eimac both did to Ten Tec). Don't get me wrong -- QRP is fun, and I enjoy it. But it is not the ONLY way to enjoy ham radio. And there is a LOT more to the cost of a sophisticated product like what we buy from Elecraft than meets the eye. Jim Brown K9YC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Steven Pituch
...and comes higher resale value for us. Pictures in QST of the latest high
buck Dxpedition running Elecraft K2's and KAMPS on the beaches of Kantgettherefromhea Island will sell a lot of Elecraft gear and make my K1 and K2 more valuable. It's all about generating a buzz...Marketing 101. Eric KE6US -----Original Message----- And with respect, comes sales, comes profit. Steve, W2MY -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 4/25/2005 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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