Elecraft

KX2 Antenna Analyzer Program

Classic

List

Threaded

8 messages Options

Jim Sr Sturges

KX2 Antenna Analyzer Program

I saw and carefully bookmarked an article on a software utility that would
allow the KX2 to act as an antenna analyzer. And lost the bookmark.

Unless that was a dream/fantasy, would someone kindly Elmer me along and
remind me where that resource is? My considerable googling skills have
proved for nought.

Many thanks and 73,

Jim N3SZ
--
Jim Sturges, N3SZ
Amateur Radio operators do it with frequency.
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

k6dgw

Re: KX2 Antenna Analyzer Program

Antenna Z? I think you meant "Impedance at the ATU antenna connector?"

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 2/19/2018 3:02 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

> I’m pretty sure that Wizkers:Radio can do an SWR scan. I did that with an earlier version of the program.
>
> http://wizkers.github.io/wizkers-doc/ins/elecraft-kx3/
>
> An antenna analyzer does a lot more, but an SWR scan is handy.
>
> Hmm, because you can read back the L-C combinations from the ATU, you could estimate the antenna Z from the conjugate match. That would be a lot more like an antenna analyzer.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Jim Sr Sturges <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I saw and carefully bookmarked an article on a software utility that would
>> allow the KX2 to act as an antenna analyzer. And lost the bookmark.
>>
>> Unless that was a dream/fantasy, would someone kindly Elmer me along and
>> remind me where that resource is? My considerable googling skills have
>> proved for nought.
>>
>> Many thanks and 73,
>>
>> Jim N3SZ
>> --
>> Jim Sturges, N3SZ
>> Amateur Radio operators do it with frequency.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

k6dgw

Re: KX2 Antenna Analyzer Program

No and Yes. Wunder is always so very precise, I figured a typo.
Antenna impedance, in most circles means the impedance of the antenna at
its feedpoint, which is often but not always elevated above the ground.
Antenna analyzers are often, but not always, connected at the input end
of a transmission line, normally where it's connected to the transmitter
and report the load characteristics the TX will see. I always thought
"Antenna Coupler" was an OK compromise name and it's shorter than
Impedance Matching Network. As we all know, no antenna tuner has ever
"tuned" an antenna.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 2/19/2018 4:23 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Fred, isn't that where the antenna starts, or are you limiting "antenna" to mean the radiator itself?
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fred Jensen
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 3:52 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX2 Antenna Analyzer Program
>
> Antenna Z? I think you meant "Impedance at the ATU antenna connector?"
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 2/19/2018 3:02 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>> I’m pretty sure that Wizkers:Radio can do an SWR scan. I did that with an earlier version of the program.
>>
>> http://wizkers.github.io/wizkers-doc/ins/elecraft-kx3/
>>
>> An antenna analyzer does a lot more, but an SWR scan is handy.
>>
>> Hmm, because you can read back the L-C combinations from the ATU, you could estimate the antenna Z from the conjugate match. That would be a lot more like an antenna analyzer.
>>
>> wunder
>> K6WRU
>> Walter Underwood
>> CM87wj
>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>>
>

Jim Sr Sturges

Re: KX2 Antenna Analyzer Program

In reply to this post by k6dgw

Thanks to everyone. The Wizkers appears to want to work with the Elecraft
100W amp, not the KX2. The KX3 is supported, but not the 2 and I couldn’t
find the “sweep” functionality for the 3.

I will continue to search.

And I will call it an antenna sweeping thingy in order not to offend.

Thanks, again.

73

Jim N3SZ
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 7:31 PM Walter Underwood <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I know, I was going to fix that, but it was already too complicated. It
> would be measuring the same thing that an “antenna” analyzer measured when
> connected to the same terminal.
>
> The common terminology is such a disaster that it is tiring to fight it.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
> > On Feb 19, 2018, at 3:52 PM, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Antenna Z? I think you meant "Impedance at the ATU antenna connector?"
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> > Sparks NV DM09dn
> > Washoe County
> >
> > On 2/19/2018 3:02 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
> >> I’m pretty sure that Wizkers:Radio can do an SWR scan. I did that with
> an earlier version of the program.
> >>
> >> http://wizkers.github.io/wizkers-doc/ins/elecraft-kx3/
> >>
> >> An antenna analyzer does a lot more, but an SWR scan is handy.
> >>
> >> Hmm, because you can read back the L-C combinations from the ATU, you
> could estimate the antenna Z from the conjugate match. That would be a lot
> more like an antenna analyzer.
> >>
> >> wunder
> >> K6WRU
> >> Walter Underwood
> >> CM87wj
> >> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> >>
> >>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Jim Sr Sturges <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I saw and carefully bookmarked an article on a software utility that
> would
> >>> allow the KX2 to act as an antenna analyzer. And lost the bookmark.
> >>>
> >>> Unless that was a dream/fantasy, would someone kindly Elmer me along
> and
> >>> remind me where that resource is? My considerable googling skills have
> >>> proved for nought.
> >>>
> >>> Many thanks and 73,
> >>>
> >>> Jim N3SZ
> >>> --
> >>> Jim Sturges, N3SZ
> >>> Amateur Radio operators do it with frequency.
> >>> ______________________________________________________________
> >>> Elecraft mailing list
> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>>
> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--
Jim Sturges, N3SZ
Amateur Radio operators do it with frequency.
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

David Gilbert

Re: KX2 Antenna Analyzer Program

In reply to this post by k6dgw

No, I don't know that at all. I understand the reluctance to use that
terminology, but strictly speaking you're wrong. Reactance networks are
reciprocal ... they don't care in the least which direction power is
heading. The combination of the feedline, the "antenna tuner", and the
output impedance of the transmitter reflect back along the feedline to
the antenna the same reactance that you would use at the antenna feed
point to zero out the total reactance there ... i.e., "tune" it. The
only difference lies with their respective losses., and if you had
lossless feedline and lossless components there would be no difference
at all.

It's basic network physics, and reciprocity is reciprocity.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 2/19/2018 5:53 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> As we all know, no antenna tuner has ever "tuned" an antenna.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Sr Sturges

Re: KX2 Antenna Analyzer Program

In reply to this post by k6dgw

Got the Chrome extension and it does work with the KX2. But no “sweep”
utility. Any idea where it might be?

73

Jim N3SZ
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:23 AM Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> " The common terminology is such a disaster that it is tiring to fight it."
>
> Too right!
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

k6dgw

Re: KX2 Antenna Analyzer Program

In reply to this post by David Gilbert

Oh for Pete's sake!

"Left to their own, most hams will complicate a simple subject beyond
recognition."
Art, W6RMK [SK]

who taught me the code at age 12 and said the above while explaining how
my link coupling to the "tank" matched the 6L6 plate circuit impedance
[several thousand ohms], to the low impedance at the end of the 75-ohm
twin-lead from my 40m dipole.

And, to forestall a posting storm from those racing to the keyboard to
point out the "75 ohm twin-lead typo," there were at least two grades of
commercial 75 ohm twin-lead, a fairly small, flexible version for lower
power, and a much heavier, somewhat unwieldy version for high power.
Been years since I've seen them. For the less financially endowed [e.g.
me], there was also lamp cord ... close enough.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 2/19/2018 11:45 PM, David Gilbert wrote:

>
> No, I don't know that at all. I understand the reluctance to use that
> terminology, but strictly speaking you're wrong. Reactance networks
> are reciprocal ... they don't care in the least which direction power
> is heading. The combination of the feedline, the "antenna tuner", and
> the output impedance of the transmitter reflect back along the
> feedline to the antenna the same reactance that you would use at the
> antenna feed point to zero out the total reactance there ... i.e.,
> "tune" it. The only difference lies with their respective losses.,
> and if you had lossless feedline and lossless components there would
> be no difference at all.
>
> It's basic network physics, and reciprocity is reciprocity.
>
> 73,
> Dave AB7E

Jim Sr Sturges

Re: KX2 Antenna Analyzer Program

Walter, thanks. The sweep’s output is within +/- 0.2 of my MFJ, and is fun
to use.

I have found that calibrating my Metric Ford Wrench before tightening any
connectors improves all the results.

73,

Jim N3SZ
On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 1:44 PM Fred Jensen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Oh for Pete's sake!
>
> "Left to their own, most hams will complicate a simple subject beyond
> recognition."
> Art, W6RMK [SK]
>
> who taught me the code at age 12 and said the above while explaining how
> my link coupling to the "tank" matched the 6L6 plate circuit impedance
> [several thousand ohms], to the low impedance at the end of the 75-ohm
> twin-lead from my 40m dipole.
>
> And, to forestall a posting storm from those racing to the keyboard to
> point out the "75 ohm twin-lead typo," there were at least two grades of
> commercial 75 ohm twin-lead, a fairly small, flexible version for lower
> power, and a much heavier, somewhat unwieldy version for high power.
> Been years since I've seen them. For the less financially endowed [e.g.
> me], there was also lamp cord ... close enough.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 2/19/2018 11:45 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
> >
> > No, I don't know that at all. I understand the reluctance to use that
> > terminology, but strictly speaking you're wrong. Reactance networks
> > are reciprocal ... they don't care in the least which direction power
> > is heading. The combination of the feedline, the "antenna tuner", and
> > the output impedance of the transmitter reflect back along the
> > feedline to the antenna the same reactance that you would use at the
> > antenna feed point to zero out the total reactance there ... i.e.,
> > "tune" it. The only difference lies with their respective losses.,
> > and if you had lossless feedline and lossless components there would
> > be no difference at all.
> >
> > It's basic network physics, and reciprocity is reciprocity.
> >
> > 73,
> > Dave AB7E
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]