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KX2 Battery Question

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Tim McDonough N9PUZ

KX2 Battery Question

I have a "new to me" KX2 along with the internal battery and charger.
Inside the KX2 battery compartment, is there supposed to be any sort of
insulating sheet or pad covering the circuit board?

There was nothing inside mine when I opened it and my first thought is
that even though it is insulated the battery pack shouldn't lay right on
the circuit board above. I don't want to chance damaging the radio.

73,

Tim N9PUZ

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wayne burdick

Re: KX2 Battery Question

Administrator

> On May 26, 2017, at 8:27 PM, Tim McDonough N9PUZ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have a "new to me" KX2 along with the internal battery and charger. Inside the KX2 battery compartment, is there supposed to be any sort of insulating sheet or pad covering the circuit board?

Tim,

No insulating sheet is necessary. The battery is double shrink-wrapped, there are no parts on that area of the PC board, and there’s nothing sharp that could abrade the plastic covering. It’s all quite safe.

There is of course a rubberized pad on the inside of the bottom cover. This creates high friction to keep the battery from moving around.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Tim McDonough N9PUZ

Re: KX2 Battery Question

On 5/27/2017 12:14 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> I have a "new to me" KX2 along with the internal battery and charger. Inside the KX2 battery compartment, is there supposed to be any sort of insulating sheet or pad covering the circuit board?
>
> No insulating sheet is necessary. The battery is double shrink-wrapped, there are no parts on that area of the PC board, and there’s nothing sharp that could abrade the plastic covering. It’s all quite safe.
>
> There is of course a rubberized pad on the inside of the bottom cover. This creates high friction to keep the battery from moving around.
>

Very good. Great radio and I just didn't want to mess anything up.

Thank you Wayne!

73,

Tim N9PUZ
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Peter Pauly

Re: KX2 Battery Question

I would have liked to see a big piece of kapton tape covering the board.
Aren't the components ESD sensitive?

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Tim McDonough N9PUZ <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On 5/27/2017 12:14 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>
>> I have a "new to me" KX2 along with the internal battery and charger.
>>> Inside the KX2 battery compartment, is there supposed to be any sort of
>>> insulating sheet or pad covering the circuit board?
>>>
>>
>> No insulating sheet is necessary. The battery is double shrink-wrapped,
>> there are no parts on that area of the PC board, and there’s nothing sharp
>> that could abrade the plastic covering. It’s all quite safe.
>>
>> There is of course a rubberized pad on the inside of the bottom cover.
>> This creates high friction to keep the battery from moving around.
>>
>>
> Very good. Great radio and I just didn't want to mess anything up.
>
> Thank you Wayne!
>
> 73,
>
> Tim N9PUZ
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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wayne burdick

Re: KX2 Battery Question

Administrator

There are no components anywhere near the battery. The bottom of the RF board in this area was left completely clear specifically to avoid the need for any supplemental insulating material.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

> On May 27, 2017, at 10:14 AM, Peter Pauly <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I would have liked to see a big piece of kapton tape covering the board. Aren't the components ESD sensitive?
>
> On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Tim McDonough N9PUZ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 5/27/2017 12:14 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> I have a "new to me" KX2 along with the internal battery and charger. Inside the KX2 battery compartment, is there supposed to be any sort of insulating sheet or pad covering the circuit board?
>
> No insulating sheet is necessary. The battery is double shrink-wrapped, there are no parts on that area of the PC board, and there’s nothing sharp that could abrade the plastic covering. It’s all quite safe.
>
> There is of course a rubberized pad on the inside of the bottom cover. This creates high friction to keep the battery from moving around.
>
>
> Very good. Great radio and I just didn't want to mess anything up.
>
> Thank you Wayne!
>
> 73,
>
> Tim N9PUZ
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Matt Zilmer-3

Re: KX2 Battery Question

Someone mentioned Kapton tape earlier, to be used to insulate the
battery side of the PCBA. Kapton tape is conductive and used mostly for
EMI shielding. Putting it or other tapes (some electrical tapes) on the
the PCBA would probably change electrical characteristics - conduction
between unmasked vias/pads, etc.

I would avoid using Kapton if you want an insulator.

Just thought this might benefit someone later on.

73,

matt W6NIA

On 05/27/2017 10:42 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> There are no components anywhere near the battery. The bottom of the RF board in this area was left completely clear specifically to avoid the need for any supplemental insulating material.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
>> On May 27, 2017, at 10:14 AM, Peter Pauly <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I would have liked to see a big piece of kapton tape covering the board. Aren't the components ESD sensitive?
>>
>> On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Tim McDonough N9PUZ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 5/27/2017 12:14 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> I have a "new to me" KX2 along with the internal battery and charger. Inside the KX2 battery compartment, is there supposed to be any sort of insulating sheet or pad covering the circuit board?
>>
>> No insulating sheet is necessary. The battery is double shrink-wrapped, there are no parts on that area of the PC board, and there’s nothing sharp that could abrade the plastic covering. It’s all quite safe.
>>
>> There is of course a rubberized pad on the inside of the bottom cover. This creates high friction to keep the battery from moving around.
>>
>>
>> Very good. Great radio and I just didn't want to mess anything up.
>>
>> Thank you Wayne!
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Tim N9PUZ
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Josh Fiden

Re: KX2 Battery Question

You must be confusing Kapton with a different material. It has excellent dielectric properties, makes an excellent insulator, and is a pretty good thermal conductor. It's also inexpensive. It's lousy with abrasion.

73,
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device

> On May 27, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Someone mentioned Kapton tape earlier, to be used to insulate the
> battery side of the PCBA. Kapton tape is conductive and used mostly for
> EMI shielding. Putting it or other tapes (some electrical tapes) on the
> the PCBA would probably change electrical characteristics - conduction
> between unmasked vias/pads, etc.
>
> I would avoid using Kapton if you want an insulator.
>
> Just thought this might benefit someone later on.
>
> 73,
>
> matt W6NIA
>>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: KX2 Battery Question

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer-3

RE: Kapton tape

Matt,

Kapton is actually a pretty good insulator, but it is NOT a good material to prevent abrasion. The aircraft industry tried to use it as wire insulation, and as an anti-abrasion wrap around entire wire bundles. Unfortunately, some manufacturers jumped the gun and implemented it without testing, using "qualification by analysis" as their basis for using it. I must admit that it SEEMS like it would do those jobs well.

It turns out that when we tested it, we found that it doesn't do well in a high humidity and high vibration environments, and doesn't withstand chaffing very well either. We rejected its use, but not before we had wire harnesses already in production using Kapton insulated wires. Needless to say, we had to rework those harnesses. I don't know if the FAA issued an Airworthiness Directive against those aircraft that were delivered using Kapton insulation, but there was discussion of that

Mark,
KE6BB

From: Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2017 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX2 Battery Question

Someone mentioned Kapton tape earlier, to be used to insulate the
battery side of the PCBA. Kapton tape is conductive and used mostly for
EMI shielding. Putting it or other tapes (some electrical tapes) on the
the PCBA would probably change electrical characteristics - conduction
between unmasked vias/pads, etc.

I would avoid using Kapton if you want an insulator.

Just thought this might benefit someone later on.

73,

matt W6NIA

On 05/27/2017 10:42 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

--
"Always store beer in a dark place." -- R. Heinlein

Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
[Voignier]

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Matt Zilmer-3

Re: KX2 Battery Question

I'll just reply with

https://www.kaptontape.com/Conductive_Tapes.php

I last used it in the IFE industry. There may be more than one type,
but I'm not an expert at this.

73,

matt W6NIA

On 05/27/2017 03:31 PM, Mark Petiford wrote:

> RE: Kapton tape
>
>
> Matt,
>
>
> Kapton is actually a pretty good insulator, but it is NOT a good
> material to prevent abrasion. The aircraft industry tried to use it
> as wire insulation, and as an anti-abrasion wrap around entire wire
> bundles. Unfortunately, some manufacturers jumped the gun and
> implemented it without testing, using "qualification by analysis" as
> their basis for using it. I must admit that it SEEMS like it would do
> those jobs well.
>
>
> It turns out that when we tested it, we found that it doesn't do well
> in a high humidity and high vibration environments, and doesn't
> withstand chaffing very well either. We rejected its use, but not
> before we had wire harnesses already in production using Kapton
> insulated wires. Needless to say, we had to rework those harnesses.
> I don't know if the FAA issued an Airworthiness Directive against
> those aircraft that were delivered using Kapton insulation, but there
> was discussion of that
>
>
> Mark,
>
> KE6BB
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]>
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 27, 2017 2:22 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] KX2 Battery Question
>
> Someone mentioned Kapton tape earlier, to be used to insulate the
> battery side of the PCBA. Kapton tape is conductive and used mostly for
> EMI shielding. Putting it or other tapes (some electrical tapes) on the
> the PCBA would probably change electrical characteristics - conduction
> between unmasked vias/pads, etc.
>
> I would avoid using Kapton if you want an insulator.
>
> Just thought this might benefit someone later on.
>
> 73,
>
> matt W6NIA
>
>
> On 05/27/2017 10:42 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> > There are no components anywhere near the battery. The bottom of the
> RF board in this area was left completely clear specifically to avoid
> the need for any supplemental insulating material.
> >
> > 73,
> > Wayne
> > N6KR
> >
> >
> >
> >> On May 27, 2017, at 10:14 AM, Peter Pauly <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >>
> >> I would have liked to see a big piece of kapton tape covering the
> board. Aren't the components ESD sensitive?
> >>
> >> On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Tim McDonough N9PUZ
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >> On 5/27/2017 12:14 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> >> I have a "new to me" KX2 along with the internal battery and
> charger. Inside the KX2 battery compartment, is there supposed to be
> any sort of insulating sheet or pad covering the circuit board?
> >>
> >> No insulating sheet is necessary. The battery is double
> shrink-wrapped, there are no parts on that area of the PC board, and
> there’s nothing sharp that could abrade the plastic covering. It’s all
> quite safe.
> >>
> >> There is of course a rubberized pad on the inside of the bottom
> cover. This creates high friction to keep the battery from moving around.
> >>
> >>
> >> Very good. Great radio and I just didn't want to mess anything up.
> >>
> >> Thank you Wayne!
> >>
> >> 73,
> >>
> >> Tim N9PUZ
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/>
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >>
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/>
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
> --
> "Always store beer in a dark place." -- R. Heinlein
>
> Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
> [Voignier]
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/>
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>

Josh Fiden

Re: KX2 Battery Question

Sorry, not Kapton. You're looking at conductive tape available from a web site called kaptontape.com, unrelated to the Dupont product.

This is Kapton tape from the same website:

https://www.kaptontape.com/1_Mil_Kapton_Tapes.php

73,
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device

> On May 27, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'll just reply with
>
> https://www.kaptontape.com/Conductive_Tapes.php
>
> I last used it in the IFE industry. There may be more than one type,
> but I'm not an expert at this.
>
> 73,
>
> matt W6NIA
>
>>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: KX2 Battery Question

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer-3

Re: "I'll just reply with https://www.kaptontape.com/Conductive_Tapes.php ... There may be more than one type, but I'm not an expert at this."

Matt,
That isn't really made from Kapton. Take a look at the Technical Datasheet for that tape (link on upper right corner of the page). It is "made from a copper foil with an acrylic conductive adhesive." It is tricky because the company name is "KaptonTape.com", but that particular product has no Kapton in it.

Contrast that with a true Kapton tape from the same company:

https://www.kaptontape.com/1_Mil_Kapton_Tapes.php

Note that its datasheet states that it is a dielectric tape made from DuPont Kapton (r). Its insulation resistance is stated to be 1,000,000 mega ohms for the 1 mil tape.

Mark,
KE6BB

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Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: KX2 Battery Question

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer-3

That's like saying Mylar tape. Mylar, or in this case Kapton is the base carrier. The type of tape in the link has copper foil is attached to the Kapton base, so in that particular case, it IS conductive.
But the base material, Kapton like Mylar, is NOT conductive.

Kapton can have a carbon dust applied which IS conductive. Mylar can have Iron Oxide applied, which is better known as recording tape.

The only use I've ever seen for Kapton tape is high temperature masking for example, in powder coating fusing around 400 degrees F.

73, Charlie k3ICH

To: Mark Petiford <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX2 Battery Question

I'll just reply with

https://www.kaptontape.com/Conductive_Tapes.php

I last used it in the IFE industry. There may be more than one type, but I'm not an expert at this.

73,

matt W6NIA

On 05/27/2017 03:31 PM, Mark Petiford wrote:

> RE: Kapton tape
>
>
> Matt,
>
>
> Kapton is actually a pretty good insulator, but it is NOT a good
> material to prevent abrasion. The aircraft industry tried to use it
> as wire insulation, and as an anti-abrasion wrap around entire wire
> bundles. Unfortunately, some manufacturers jumped the gun and
> implemented it without testing, using "qualification by analysis" as
> their basis for using it. I must admit that it SEEMS like it would do
> those jobs well.
>
>
> It turns out that when we tested it, we found that it doesn't do well
> in a high humidity and high vibration environments, and doesn't
> withstand chaffing very well either. We rejected its use, but not
> before we had wire harnesses already in production using Kapton
> insulated wires. Needless to say, we had to rework those harnesses.
> I don't know if the FAA issued an Airworthiness Directive against
> those aircraft that were delivered using Kapton insulation, but there
> was discussion of that
>
>
> Mark,
>
> KE6BB
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> *From:* Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]>
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 27, 2017 2:22 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] KX2 Battery Question
>
> Someone mentioned Kapton tape earlier, to be used to insulate the
> battery side of the PCBA. Kapton tape is conductive and used mostly
> for EMI shielding. Putting it or other tapes (some electrical tapes)
> on the the PCBA would probably change electrical characteristics -
> conduction between unmasked vias/pads, etc.
>
> I would avoid using Kapton if you want an insulator.
>
> Just thought this might benefit someone later on.
>
> 73,
>
> matt W6NIA
>
>
> On 05/27/2017 10:42 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> > There are no components anywhere near the battery. The bottom of the
> RF board in this area was left completely clear specifically to avoid
> the need for any supplemental insulating material.
> >
> > 73,
> > Wayne
> > N6KR
> >
> >
> >
> >> On May 27, 2017, at 10:14 AM, Peter Pauly <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >>
> >> I would have liked to see a big piece of kapton tape covering the
> board. Aren't the components ESD sensitive?
> >>
> >> On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Tim McDonough N9PUZ
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >> On 5/27/2017 12:14 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> >> I have a "new to me" KX2 along with the internal battery and
> charger. Inside the KX2 battery compartment, is there supposed to be
> any sort of insulating sheet or pad covering the circuit board?
> >>
> >> No insulating sheet is necessary. The battery is double
> shrink-wrapped, there are no parts on that area of the PC board, and
> there’s nothing sharp that could abrade the plastic covering. It’s all
> quite safe.
> >>
> >> There is of course a rubberized pad on the inside of the bottom
> cover. This creates high friction to keep the battery from moving around.
> >>
> >>
> >> Very good. Great radio and I just didn't want to mess anything up.
> >>
> >> Thank you Wayne!
> >>
> >> 73,
> >>
> >> Tim N9PUZ
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/>
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >>
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> > <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/> Please
> > help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> > delivered to [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
> --
> "Always store beer in a dark place." -- R. Heinlein
>
> Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
> [Voignier]
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/> Please
> help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>

--
"Always store beer in a dark place." -- R. Heinlein

Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
[Voignier]

______________________________________________________________
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Dave-3

Re: KX2 Battery Question

In reply to this post by Tim McDonough N9PUZ

Don't tell the kapton that has been decoupling the 2kV on the anode in my
500W 1296MHz amplifier for 12 years this!
Dave
WW2R

Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 14:13:58 -0700
From: Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX2 Battery Question
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I would avoid using Kapton if you want an insulator.

73,

matt W6NIA

On 05/27/2017 10:42 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

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