KX2 Heatsink
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Hi Kev,
The issue is related to the fact that Elecraft, as do virtually all amateur radio manufacturers rate power output with 50% duty cycle SSB/CW modes only. As is stated in the KX3 specifications and here copied from the KX2 manual: /"80-17 meters, 10 W PEP max (+/- 1 dB); 12 and 10 meters, 8 W PEP max (+/- 1 dB).// //Recommended transmit duty cycle: 50%, all modes. (If power amplifier temperature or// //current drain is too high, power will automatically be reduced.)// //NOTE: When using over 5 W in SSB, DATA-A and AFSK-A modes, the// //recommended supply voltage is 12 V or higher to minimize transmit intermodulation// //products. Higher power with lower voltages should be used only when necessary."/ I believe many or most of the requests we have had to make an aftermarket heatsink have come from hams using these rigs in digital modes such as JT and desire full-power operation, which Elecraft does not explicitly endorse, but which is possible with additional cooling. Elecraft designs and specifies operation of their rigs very conservatively compared to many other manufacturers, and the KX2 and KX3 specifications are spot on. Also as is stated in the specification, the KX2 internal battery, at 10-11V depending on state of charge is considered adequate for 5W or less, and we have supplied many Kx33 14V supplies to KX2 owners who want to use the rig at 10W power when AC power is available. I conclude many of these KX2 rigs are being used in digital modes from fixed location AC power, not from batteries. I can't blame the hams who do this, the KX2 is a fantastically full-featured rig for fixed operation, I have used it at home to check into local 10M SSB nets driving a KPA500 and no one was the wiser compared to my K3. Cheers, Howie - WA4PSC On 5/14/2017 4:01 PM, [hidden email] wrote: >>It seems odd to me that an issue like this would go unmentioned >> and unaddressed by Elecraft. >> >>73, >>Kev K4VD ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Sorry if this is argumentative, but your post seems to be in conflict
with Wayne's post earlier today. Wayne: "...heat sinking that is entirely adequate in all modes at full power, even from a 14 volt external supply." The manual also says "all modes" which I don't see why that would exclude JT65. JT65 is *not* 100% duty cycle. It transmits about 50 seconds out of the 1 minute interval, then receives for 1 minute. Sounds to me like slightly less than 50%. Wayne's results were 7 mins key down until reduced power at 25c ambient. Running JT conditions of 1 min xmit and 1 min receive, how long does it take to reduce power, if ever? How much is this performance reduced at 30 or 35c? Without this data I don't see how we evaluate whether an additional heat sink is required. Thanks & 73, Josh W6XU On 5/14/2017 2:18 PM, Howard Hoyt wrote: > Hi Kev, > > The issue is related to the fact that Elecraft, as do virtually all > amateur radio manufacturers rate power output with 50% duty cycle > SSB/CW modes only. As is stated in the KX3 specifications and here > copied from the KX2 manual: > > /"80-17 meters, 10 W PEP max (+/- 1 dB); 12 and 10 meters, 8 W PEP max > (+/- 1 dB).// > //Recommended transmit duty cycle: 50%, all modes. (If power amplifier > temperature or// > //current drain is too high, power will automatically be reduced.)// > //NOTE: When using over 5 W in SSB, DATA-A and AFSK-A modes, the// > //recommended supply voltage is 12 V or higher to minimize transmit > intermodulation// > //products. Higher power with lower voltages should be used only when > necessary."/ > > I believe many or most of the requests we have had to make an > aftermarket heatsink have come from hams using these rigs in digital > modes such as JT and desire full-power operation, which Elecraft does > not explicitly endorse, but which is possible with additional > cooling. Elecraft designs and specifies operation of their rigs very > conservatively compared to many other manufacturers, and the KX2 and > KX3 specifications are spot on. > Also as is stated in the specification, the KX2 internal battery, at > 10-11V depending on state of charge is considered adequate for 5W or > less, and we have supplied many Kx33 14V supplies to KX2 owners who > want to use the rig at 10W power when AC power is available. > > I conclude many of these KX2 rigs are being used in digital modes from > fixed location AC power, not from batteries. I can't blame the hams > who do this, the KX2 is a fantastically full-featured rig for fixed > operation, I have used it at home to check into local 10M SSB nets > driving a KPA500 and no one was the wiser compared to my K3. > > Cheers, > Howie - WA4PSC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by hhoyt
The original request for aftermarket heat link was from earlier production of KX3. My KX3 was an early production. I plainly put up heat sink issue in this mailing list that the early KX3 only has thin piece of metal as heat sink which simply did not meet the specifications published by Elecraft.
Eventually, Elecraft did respond and now newer production comes with KX3HSMDKT I believe Elecraft learnt this lesson and the heat sink in KX2 will meet the published operating specifications. For pro-long full duty cycle digital operation at 10W, KX2 is simply not designed for that usage hence the stock heat sink. Heat sink problem also exists in the Elecraft transverters, while the max output is 20W, it cannot sustain 10W FM causal operation (i.e. too hot) 73 Johnny VR2XMC 寄件人︰ Howard Hoyt <[hidden email]> 收件人︰ [hidden email]; [hidden email] 傳送日期︰ 2017年05月15日 (週一) 5:19 AM 主題︰ [Elecraft] KX2 Heatsink Hi Kev, The issue is related to the fact that Elecraft, as do virtually all amateur radio manufacturers rate power output with 50% duty cycle SSB/CW modes only. As is stated in the KX3 specifications and here copied from the KX2 manual: /"80-17 meters, 10 W PEP max (+/- 1 dB); 12 and 10 meters, 8 W PEP max (+/- 1 dB).// //Recommended transmit duty cycle: 50%, all modes. (If power amplifier temperature or// //current drain is too high, power will automatically be reduced.)// //NOTE: When using over 5 W in SSB, DATA-A and AFSK-A modes, the// //recommended supply voltage is 12 V or higher to minimize transmit intermodulation// //products. Higher power with lower voltages should be used only when necessary."/ I believe many or most of the requests we have had to make an aftermarket heatsink have come from hams using these rigs in digital modes such as JT and desire full-power operation, which Elecraft does not explicitly endorse, but which is possible with additional cooling. Elecraft designs and specifies operation of their rigs very conservatively compared to many other manufacturers, and the KX2 and KX3 specifications are spot on. Also as is stated in the specification, the KX2 internal battery, at 10-11V depending on state of charge is considered adequate for 5W or less, and we have supplied many Kx33 14V supplies to KX2 owners who want to use the rig at 10W power when AC power is available. I conclude many of these KX2 rigs are being used in digital modes from fixed location AC power, not from batteries. I can't blame the hams who do this, the KX2 is a fantastically full-featured rig for fixed operation, I have used it at home to check into local 10M SSB nets driving a KPA500 and no one was the wiser compared to my K3. Cheers, Howie - WA4PSC On 5/14/2017 4:01 PM, [hidden email] wrote: >>It seems odd to me that an issue like this would go unmentioned >> and unaddressed by Elecraft. >> >>73, >>Kev K4VD ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by hhoyt
For those of you who don't Howard Hoyt aka Howie - WA4PSC is the moderator for the KX3/KX2 Yahoo group and is the owner of Pro Audio Engineering which markets products for Elecraft KX products.
Several years ago when heatsinks for the KX3 were just becoming an item I made the greviouis mistake of commenting on the KX3 Yahoo group that I had bought a heatsink from a guy in 8 land and it was good quality and about a third of the price. I was immediately banned from the Yahoo group by Howie. There were many other people banned for mentioning anything that competed with Pro Audio. Emails to Howie with my mea culpas were never answered. If Eric and Wayne ran this forum as you run the Yahoo KX3 Group you would have been banned a long time ago. I apologize for the rant but I feel better....LOL Tex ka5y |
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Yes, I was also one of those being banned from KX3 yahoo group because I mentioned competitive products. Any way no regret on my part and I will adhere to this official mailing listing.
73 Johnny VR2XMC 寄件人︰ pkhjr via Elecraft <[hidden email]> 收件人︰ [hidden email] 傳送日期︰ 2017年05月15日 (週一) 8:54 PM 主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] KX2 Heatsink For those of you who don't Howard Hoyt aka Howie - WA4PSC is the moderator for the KX3/KX2 Yahoo group and is the owner of Pro Audio Engineering which markets products for Elecraft KX products. Several years ago when heatsinks for the KX3 were just becoming an item I made the greviouis mistake of commenting on the KX3 Yahoo group that I had bought a heatsink from a guy in 8 land and it was good quality and about a third of the price. I was immediately banned from the Yahoo group by Howie. There were many other people banned for mentioning anything that competed with Pro Audio. Emails to Howie with my mea culpas were never answered. If Eric and Wayne ran this forum as you run the Yahoo KX3 Group you would have been banned a long time ago. I apologize for the rant but I feel better....LOL Tex ka5y -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KX2-Heatsink-tp7630625p7630636.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Ha! Same happened to me! No explanation, no response to my emails as to what
had I done wrong. Thanks for IDing the problem. Now I know who to never buy from. Leroy AB7CE -----Original Message----- From: Johnny Siu via Elecraft Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 9:12 AM To: pkhjr ; [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] KX2 Heatsink Yes, I was also one of those being banned from KX3 yahoo group because I mentioned competitive products. Any way no regret on my part and I will adhere to this official mailing listing. 73 Johnny VR2XMC 寄件人︰ pkhjr via Elecraft <[hidden email]> 收件人︰ [hidden email] 傳送日期︰ 2017年05月15日 (週一) 8:54 PM 主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] KX2 Heatsink For those of you who don't Howard Hoyt aka Howie - WA4PSC is the moderator for the KX3/KX2 Yahoo group and is the owner of Pro Audio Engineering which markets products for Elecraft KX products. Several years ago when heatsinks for the KX3 were just becoming an item I made the greviouis mistake of commenting on the KX3 Yahoo group that I had bought a heatsink from a guy in 8 land and it was good quality and about a third of the price. I was immediately banned from the Yahoo group by Howie. There were many other people banned for mentioning anything that competed with Pro Audio. Emails to Howie with my mea culpas were never answered. If Eric and Wayne ran this forum as you run the Yahoo KX3 Group you would have been banned a long time ago. I apologize for the rant but I feel better....LOL Tex ka5y -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KX2-Heatsink-tp7630625p7630636.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Folks, Lets close the 'list banning' portion of this thread.
Regardless of your motivation, it is a violation of the Elecraft list guidelines to criticize other people or vendors in this manner. eHam and other forums have review sections where info like this can be passed on. That said, I'll also talk with the KX3/KX2 Yahoo moderator about the claims of banning members for mentions of other competitors etc., which is a concern for us as it also reflects on our reputation since that independent group is Elecraft KX3/KX2 oriented. 73, Eric /elecraft.com/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Tex
Folks - I've just corresponded with Howard Hoyt, W4SPC, of Pro-Audio Systems. It
appears you may be mistaken about the assertion Howard was the moderator banning people from the independent Yahoo KX3 list. Howard took over the Yahoo KX3/KX2 list a while back from its original owner, who apparently -was- banning a large number of members for a wide range of reasons. Howard's goal was to clean up the problems. In fact Howard has been adding back a large number of members who were previously banned when informed about it. This is -exactly- the reason why we prohibit complaints about other vendors or hams on this list. And even when well intentioned, an erroneous complaint about a vendor or person can seriously harm their reputation and business. I'll invite Howard top post here so he can set the story straight. (But lets keep that thread as short as possible. :-) 73, Eric /elecraft.com/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Thanks Eric for resolving this.
You should know it was a year ago that I was banned from the KX3 list for mentioning a heat sink. I just two months ago emailed the list moderator, no response. So I am skeptical about the timing of list moderator who was banning folks, all of who mentioned a competing product of the current list moderator. So again, thanks for resolving the conflict, and next time I will email you directly if that is OK. Since I own one of every radio Elecraft has ever produced, the lists are valuable to me. 73 Leroy AB7CE -----Original Message----- From: Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 3:59 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX2 Heatsink Folks - I've just corresponded with Howard Hoyt, W4SPC, of Pro-Audio Systems. It appears you may be mistaken about the assertion Howard was the moderator banning people from the independent Yahoo KX3 list. Howard took over the Yahoo KX3/KX2 list a while back from its original owner, who apparently -was- banning a large number of members for a wide range of reasons. Howard's goal was to clean up the problems. In fact Howard has been adding back a large number of members who were previously banned when informed about it. This is -exactly- the reason why we prohibit complaints about other vendors or hams on this list. And even when well intentioned, an erroneous complaint about a vendor or person can seriously harm their reputation and business. I'll invite Howard top post here so he can set the story straight. (But lets keep that thread as short as possible. :-) 73, Eric /elecraft.com/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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