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KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??

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Re: KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??

Fair enough, I am very happy with my KX3, a third party heatsink made it work for me on digital modes at the power I need. I mainly use it on 144 MHz currently with an external transverter. I actually enjoyed doing the temperature compensation procedure, it was fun.

The 817 is a nice all in one rugged box, however you can't compare the ergonomics or receive performance with the KX3.

Compromises have been made in the KX3 to make it small as a trail radio, a much bigger heatsink would not have been appreciated by hikers. They did upgrade the heatsink (a bit) in later models however. The KX2 uses the si5351 instead of the si570 synth, so in theory could use an external high stability reference.

I prefer some of the features in the KX3 that the KX2 doesn't have, and like the larger size, AM FM, 50 MHz, PX3 option, internal 4m transverter option. So for me the choice remains the KX3. Good to have a choice though. The new internal battery pack is about the only thing in the KX2 that I wish the KX3 had.

73 from David GM4JJJ

> On 30 May 2016, at 12:50, D Howard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> David
> I thought at the price I paid for the KX3 I shouldn't have to do the compensation nor run the KX3 at such reduced power once compensated. My trusty old FT817 worked fine.
> I also assumed Elecraft would address the issue with an updated KX3 -ie an 'KX3s' at some point.
> So I sold it awaiting the 'upgrade' which turned out to be the KX2 !
> Which is far more stable out of the box.
> I'm happy to now order a KX2!
> 73/72
> Dan VA3MA
>
>> On May 30, 2016, at 4:01 AM, David Anderson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Dan ,
>>
>> I am surprised that you couldn't get WSJT to go with your KX3 and had to sell it.
>>
>> I am using my KX3 (note not a KX2) on WSJT on 144 MHz EME JT65b. I did however do the extended temperature VFO compensation first and that perhaps is a key requirement. The KX3 was actually more stable than my original 144 MHz transverter's TCXO, which I had to replace with a better TCXO to get the transmit drift to satisfactory levels.
>>
>>
>> 73 from David GM4JJJ
>>
>>> On 30 May 2016, at 04:45, D Howard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Luke
>>> I too sold my KX3 for the same reason- no WSJT.
>>> Happy to see KX2 capable with care
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>> On May 29, 2016, at 11:20 PM, Luke <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I just tried JT9 actually and had no problems. If you head over to PSKReporter and type in my call sign you can see how it's been working for me this evening. It seems to heat up a little faster using JT9, but it's still managable. I don't mind taking a few minutes between QSO's to let things cool off. From my understanding Gemsproducts.com already has KX2 side handles in the works and I will definitely pick some up and see how they work. I can only imagine that any more metal on the side to pick up some extra heat will only be a good thing.
>>>>
>>>> Luke
>>>> AD0KI
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Dan - VA3MA <[hidden email]>
>>>> To: Luke <[hidden email]>
>>>> Cc: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 9:14 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??
>>>>
>>>> Luke
>>>> Thanks - just what I needed to know!
>>>> Have you tried JT9 ?
>>>> Perhaps some sort of heatsink/handles added to the case might help??
>>>> 73
>>>> Dan VA3MA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2016-05-29, at 22:37, Luke <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hmm, not sure why it cut out my message. Here's what I wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've used my KX2 on WSPR and JT65 and it appears to be plenty stable. I used to have a KX3 and sold it because it wouldn't decode WSPR between transmit cycles due to excessive drift. I've kept the KX2 to <5 watts because the right sideplate gets very hot with the high duty cycle.
>>>>
>>>> I've actually just been sitting here running JT65 @ 10 watts when I got your email, and it is doing pretty well. I had 3 back to back QSO's and on the last transmission the PA Temp got up to 47C (~117F) which doesn't seem too bad. As it cools off there is no drifting or slanting of signals on the waterfall either. I think the 1 minute on/off duty cycle of JT65 is very doable with the KX2, and WSPR might be pushing it. The other night the sideplate got quite hot running WSPR at 5 watts.
>>>>
>>>> Luke
>>>> AD0KI
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Dan - VA3MA <[hidden email]>
>>>> To: Luke <[hidden email]>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 8:12 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??
>>>>
>>>> Luke
>>>> No content????
>>>>
>>>>> On May 29, 2016, at 8:51 PM, Luke via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>

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VA3MA

Re: KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??

David
Can't agree more with what you say about the KX3 !
The KX3 is a superb piece of engineering
In my circumstances as apartment dweller with very limited antenna options - WSJT modes allow me to still operate and make QSO's - thanks Joe Taylor!
In other circumstances there wouldn't be an issue
I envy your EME escapades!
Enjoy!
Dan VA3MA

> On May 30, 2016, at 8:10 AM, David Anderson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Fair enough, I am very happy with my KX3, a third party heatsink made it work for me on digital modes at the power I need. I mainly use it on 144 MHz currently with an external transverter. I actually enjoyed doing the temperature compensation procedure, it was fun.
>
> The 817 is a nice all in one rugged box, however you can't compare the ergonomics or receive performance with the KX3.
>
> Compromises have been made in the KX3 to make it small as a trail radio, a much bigger heatsink would not have been appreciated by hikers. They did upgrade the heatsink (a bit) in later models however. The KX2 uses the si5351 instead of the si570 synth, so in theory could use an external high stability reference.
>
> I prefer some of the features in the KX3 that the KX2 doesn't have, and like the larger size, AM FM, 50 MHz, PX3 option, internal 4m transverter option. So for me the choice remains the KX3. Good to have a choice though. The new internal battery pack is about the only thing in the KX2 that I wish the KX3 had.
>
> 73 from David GM4JJJ
>
>> On 30 May 2016, at 12:50, D Howard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> David
>> I thought at the price I paid for the KX3 I shouldn't have to do the compensation nor run the KX3 at such reduced power once compensated. My trusty old FT817 worked fine.
>> I also assumed Elecraft would address the issue with an updated KX3 -ie an 'KX3s' at some point.
>> So I sold it awaiting the 'upgrade' which turned out to be the KX2 !
>> Which is far more stable out of the box.
>> I'm happy to now order a KX2!
>> 73/72
>> Dan VA3MA
>>
>>> On May 30, 2016, at 4:01 AM, David Anderson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dan ,
>>>
>>> I am surprised that you couldn't get WSJT to go with your KX3 and had to sell it.
>>>
>>> I am using my KX3 (note not a KX2) on WSJT on 144 MHz EME JT65b. I did however do the extended temperature VFO compensation first and that perhaps is a key requirement. The KX3 was actually more stable than my original 144 MHz transverter's TCXO, which I had to replace with a better TCXO to get the transmit drift to satisfactory levels.
>>>
>>>
>>> 73 from David GM4JJJ
>>>
>>>> On 30 May 2016, at 04:45, D Howard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Luke
>>>> I too sold my KX3 for the same reason- no WSJT.
>>>> Happy to see KX2 capable with care
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>>> On May 29, 2016, at 11:20 PM, Luke <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I just tried JT9 actually and had no problems. If you head over to PSKReporter and type in my call sign you can see how it's been working for me this evening. It seems to heat up a little faster using JT9, but it's still managable. I don't mind taking a few minutes between QSO's to let things cool off. From my understanding Gemsproducts.com already has KX2 side handles in the works and I will definitely pick some up and see how they work. I can only imagine that any more metal on the side to pick up some extra heat will only be a good thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Luke
>>>>> AD0KI
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Dan - VA3MA <[hidden email]>
>>>>> To: Luke <[hidden email]>
>>>>> Cc: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 9:14 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??
>>>>>
>>>>> Luke
>>>>> Thanks - just what I needed to know!
>>>>> Have you tried JT9 ?
>>>>> Perhaps some sort of heatsink/handles added to the case might help??
>>>>> 73
>>>>> Dan VA3MA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2016-05-29, at 22:37, Luke <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm, not sure why it cut out my message. Here's what I wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I've used my KX2 on WSPR and JT65 and it appears to be plenty stable. I used to have a KX3 and sold it because it wouldn't decode WSPR between transmit cycles due to excessive drift. I've kept the KX2 to <5 watts because the right sideplate gets very hot with the high duty cycle.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've actually just been sitting here running JT65 @ 10 watts when I got your email, and it is doing pretty well. I had 3 back to back QSO's and on the last transmission the PA Temp got up to 47C (~117F) which doesn't seem too bad. As it cools off there is no drifting or slanting of signals on the waterfall either. I think the 1 minute on/off duty cycle of JT65 is very doable with the KX2, and WSPR might be pushing it. The other night the sideplate got quite hot running WSPR at 5 watts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Luke
>>>>> AD0KI
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Dan - VA3MA <[hidden email]>
>>>>> To: Luke <[hidden email]>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 8:12 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??
>>>>>
>>>>> Luke
>>>>> No content????
>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 29, 2016, at 8:51 PM, Luke via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>

Jim Rodenkirch

Re: KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

Jim Brown-10

Re: KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??

In reply to this post by VA3MA

On Mon,5/30/2016 4:50 AM, D Howard wrote:
> I thought at the price I paid for the KX3 I shouldn't have to do the compensation nor run the KX3 at such reduced power once compensated. My trusty old FT817 worked fine.

That's your problem, not Elecraft's. The KX3 was specifically designed
as a backpacking radio that could also do other things. AFAIK, neither
Wayne nor Eric is a JT65 op or a VHF op, so they didn't think of the
thermal issue until users brought it up. When they did, Elecraft
developed the temperature compensation as a solution and also improved
the heat sink. I did both to my KX3. It took about three hours, half of
which was reading the instructions and cooling the radio for the second
part of the procedure.

Reading ARRL Lab test reports clearly shows that Your "trusty old FT817"
isn't one-tenth the radio that the KX3 is. The KX3 is FAR cleaner on TX
and FAR superior on RX. But the KX3 is fundamentally an HF + 6M radio,
not a 2M radio. A few weeks ago, we used a KX3 with the KXPA100 and PX3
for a very successful mobile run in the 7th Area QSO Party. Slide #8 in
k9yc.com/7QP.pdf shows the setup that W6GJB put together. W6GJB drove
while W6JTI operated, riding shotgun. The KXPA100 is on the floor of the
back seat.

73, Jim K9YC

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Edward R Cole

Re: KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??

In reply to this post by Phil Wheeler-2

I ran extensive frequency drift measurements on the KX3 in 2014,
purchasing an aftermarket heat sink for my KX3. After running the
temperature compensation procedure I reported:

I re-ran the JT65 testing sequences to measure frequency drift
after temperature compensation was done.
Initial sequence shows the most drift with a peak +13 Hz upwards
drift in the first sequence. The remainder
Showed under 10-Hz with the delta trending to +5 Hz in later sequences.

Testing was done on 50-MHz which would show the most drift; I did not
check for HF drift which one would expect to be proportionally less.

http://www.kl7uw.com/KX3.htm

Data is displayed on some charts accessible by link from main page.

I also acquired the heat sink produced by Elecraft but have not tried
it considering the one I previously purchased has much more thermal
mass. Drift before adding heat sink and performing Temp comp. was
103-Hz accumulated over 20-min test of running key-down in CW for
50-seconds followed by 70-seconds in Rx, repeating ten times.

I use a professional frequency counter usable to 26-GHz whose TCXO
appears stabile against a Rubidium reference.

I have not run the KX3 on JT65 very much (a little on 6m a couple
years ago); haven't built IQ interface. I have a K3 with EXREF
running 2m-eme and 23cm-eme with transverters so the KX3 gets used
for other kinds of use. I have the 2M board installed. Haven't
checked drift on 2m with it.

Reading the mail to see what will be reported for the KX2.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]
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VA3MA

Re: KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Jim
When one makes it personal
I'm done
Have a happy day and enjoy ham radio
72

> On May 30, 2016, at 1:24 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Mon,5/30/2016 4:50 AM, D Howard wrote:
>> I thought at the price I paid for the KX3 I shouldn't have to do the compensation nor run the KX3 at such reduced power once compensated. My trusty old FT817 worked fine.
>
> That's your problem, not Elecraft's. The KX3 was specifically designed as a backpacking radio that could also do other things. AFAIK, neither Wayne nor Eric is a JT65 op or a VHF op, so they didn't think of the thermal issue until users brought it up. When they did, Elecraft developed the temperature compensation as a solution and also improved the heat sink. I did both to my KX3. It took about three hours, half of which was reading the instructions and cooling the radio for the second part of the procedure.
>
> Reading ARRL Lab test reports clearly shows that Your "trusty old FT817" isn't one-tenth the radio that the KX3 is. The KX3 is FAR cleaner on TX and FAR superior on RX. But the KX3 is fundamentally an HF + 6M radio, not a 2M radio. A few weeks ago, we used a KX3 with the KXPA100 and PX3 for a very successful mobile run in the 7th Area QSO Party. Slide #8 in k9yc.com/7QP.pdf shows the setup that W6GJB put together. W6GJB drove while W6JTI operated, riding shotgun. The KXPA100 is on the floor of the back seat.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

VA3MA

Re: KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

Edward
Your test results are much appreciated! Any very informative!
Thank you kind sir
Would be interesting to be able to compare a newer KX3 with rev E boards to your past test results
73
Dan

> On May 30, 2016, at 2:05 PM, Edward R Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I ran extensive frequency drift measurements on the KX3 in 2014, purchasing an aftermarket heat sink for my KX3. After running the temperature compensation procedure I reported:
>
> I re-ran the JT65 testing sequences to measure frequency drift after temperature compensation was done.
> Initial sequence shows the most drift with a peak +13 Hz upwards drift in the first sequence. The remainder
> Showed under 10-Hz with the delta trending to +5 Hz in later sequences.
>
> Testing was done on 50-MHz which would show the most drift; I did not check for HF drift which one would expect to be proportionally less.
>
> http://www.kl7uw.com/KX3.htm
>
> Data is displayed on some charts accessible by link from main page.
>
> I also acquired the heat sink produced by Elecraft but have not tried it considering the one I previously purchased has much more thermal mass. Drift before adding heat sink and performing Temp comp. was 103-Hz accumulated over 20-min test of running key-down in CW for 50-seconds followed by 70-seconds in Rx, repeating ten times.
>
> I use a professional frequency counter usable to 26-GHz whose TCXO appears stabile against a Rubidium reference.
>
> I have not run the KX3 on JT65 very much (a little on 6m a couple years ago); haven't built IQ interface. I have a K3 with EXREF running 2m-eme and 23cm-eme with transverters so the KX3 gets used for other kinds of use. I have the 2M board installed. Haven't checked drift on 2m with it.
>
> Reading the mail to see what will be reported for the KX2.
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> "Kits made by KL7UW"
> Dubus Mag business:
> [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??

In reply to this post by VA3MA

On Mon,5/30/2016 12:09 PM, Dan - VA3MA wrote:
> When one makes it personal

Dan,

My apology if you were offended. Perhaps you're new to Elecraft. Many of
us began buying their radios when they only sold kits, and everyone
built their own. Indeed, many of us OTs built Heathkits. Elecraft buyers
were not buying appliances,we were accustomed to working on our radios,
and many builders developed mods that were later adopted and sold by
Elecraft. A major reason that Elecraft products are as good as they are
is that the owners are engineers, and they don't let their egos get in
the way of taking input from their customers. The K3 was the first
Elecraft radio sold factory-built, and it seems to have attracted buyers
with different expectations.

My post was intended to help you realize that Elecraft is a company that
does that. But it takes time to do analyze the problem, do the design
work, and put those changes into production. With their competitors, you
MUST buy a whole new radio to get the upgrade. It took Yaesu three
product cycles (about ten years) to fix the awful key clicks in their
flagship radio, the FT1000MP. With Elecraft, you can often buy only the
upgrade, or even simply download new firmware.

73, Jim K9YC

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