KX3 2-meter module progress report
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KX3 2-meter module progress report
 
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The second prototype of the KX3's 2-meter module is working quite well. (It's the size of a credit card, and only about 1/8" thick.) We'll have one radio outfitted with this module on Saturday at Pacificon.
I've been using mine to work repeaters, and can also easily copy weather-band stations (~162 MHz). Sensitivity is excellent and power output is in the 4~5 W range, max. When using repeaters, I'm taking advantage of the KX3's frequency memories. First, you set up the frequency, mode, PL tone, and transmit offset direction for each repeater. Then, if you want to do scanning or manual hopping among a group of memories, just add an asterisk ('*') and optional label to each memory in the group. I'll have further details later. 73, Wayne N6KR ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: KX3 2-meter module progress report
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On 10/11/13 at 1:14 PM, [hidden email] (Wayne Burdick) wrote:
>I've been using mine to work repeaters, and can also easily >copy weather-band stations (~162 MHz). Sensitivity is excellent >and power output is in the 4~5 W range, max. I have had a problem with using wide-range speakers and working repeaters. The W6PIY repeater in San Jose, CA uses a tone of 151.4. That tone is annoyingly audible with wide range speakers. The solution for the KX3 (and K3) would seem to be to apply a low-frequency audio cutoff in the DSP code. Cheers - Bill, AE6JV --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz |"Web security is like medicine - trying to do good for 408-356-8506 |an evolved body of kludges" - Mark Miller www.pwpconsult.com | ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
That's good news :-)
Has anyone done any tests of sensitivity/selectivity and IM3 performance yet please? Some of us use VHF and UHF for more than FM via repeaters, like Auroral, Sporadic-E, Meteor Scatter and enhanced Tropo propagation conditions. The contest people will also want to know about the stong signal handling capabiliies for contest working. In Europe band occupancy can be a bit intense at times in major contests. Cheers - Dave (G0DJA) ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 8:14 PM Subject: [Elecraft] KX3 2-meter module progress report > The second prototype of the KX3's 2-meter module is working quite well. > (It's the size of a credit card, and only about 1/8" thick.) We'll have > one radio outfitted with this module on Saturday at Pacificon. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: KX3 2-meter module progress report
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Hi Dave,
The KX3-2M module occupies less than one cubic inch -- that's about 1/15th the space occupied by the K144XV, the 2-m module used in the K3. Given this, we had to make some design tradeoffs. The KX2-2M's sensitivity is nearly as good as the K144XV's, but the latter has higher power output and somewhat greater dynamic range. I think if you were trying to win a VHF contest in a strong-signal environment, you might want heavier weaponry. But after the war, if your side lost and you had to run to the hills with only what you would carry, a 2-pound KX3 with 2 meter capability would be an excellent choice. 73, Wayne N6KR "Dave" <[hidden email]> wrote: > Has anyone done any tests of sensitivity/selectivity and IM3 performance yet please? Some of us use VHF and UHF for more than FM via repeaters, like Auroral, Sporadic-E, Meteor Scatter and enhanced Tropo propagation conditions. The contest people will also want to know about the stong signal handling capabiliies for contest working. In Europe band occupancy can be a bit intense at times in major contests. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Thanks for the update Wayne,
For myself the main use will be to interface to a 24GHz to 144MHz transverter, so the issues arn't as great a problem. Although having good dynamic range and adequate sensitivity would be useful. The K3 is a bit of a big box to lug around, which is why the KX3 was a more attractive proposition as I already have a TS2000X to use at home. I'd be less interested in using FM with the KX3 and KX3-2M as I already have a handheld radio that I use for occasionally operating through repeaters. Cheers - Dave (G0DJA) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Burdick" Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 2:32 PM Subject: Re: KX3 2-meter module progress report Hi Dave, The KX3-2M module occupies less than one cubic inch -- that's about 1/15th the space occupied by the K144XV, the 2-m module used in the K3. Given this, we had to make some design tradeoffs. The KX2-2M's sensitivity is nearly as good as the K144XV's, but the latter has higher power output and somewhat greater dynamic range. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: KX3 2-meter module progress report
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
For those of us using low noise preamps, they typically lower dynamic
range, anyway. I recommend a preamp for working non-FM modes as one is not benefiting from repeaters in high places. The same goes for using the 2m module as IF for higher frequency transverters (i.e microwaves). I will be looking at power and frequency specs. for my applications. I know some eme'rs are anxious to see how it does for use as eme transceiver (especially for portability on eme Dxpeditions). 4-5w will drive my amps with no problem (I am currently using a 3w HT). Hoping I am still on the beta-testing list. 73, Ed - KL7UW ---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 07:32:22 -0700 From: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> To: "Dave" <[hidden email]> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>, [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 2-meter module progress report Hi Dave, The KX3-2M module occupies less than one cubic inch -- that's about 1/15th the space occupied by the K144XV, the 2-m module used in the K3. Given this, we had to make some design tradeoffs. The KX2-2M's sensitivity is nearly as good as the K144XV's, but the latter has higher power output and somewhat greater dynamic range. I think if you were trying to win a VHF contest in a strong-signal environment, you might want heavier weaponry. But after the war, if your side lost and you had to run to the hills with only what you would carry, a 2-pound KX3 with 2 meter capability would be an excellent choice. 73, Wayne N6KR 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com [hidden email] "Kits made by KL7UW" ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Hi Wayne,
I'm sorry I missed Pacificon this year. This is great news. Can you tell us if you stated any general ETA for preordering and availability? On Oct 12, 2013, at 7:32 AM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi Dave, > > The KX3-2M module occupies less than one cubic inch -- that's about 1/15th the space occupied by the K144XV, the 2-m module used in the K3. Given this, we had to make some design tradeoffs. The KX2-2M's sensitivity is nearly as good as the K144XV's, but the latter has higher power output and somewhat greater dynamic range. > > I think if you were trying to win a VHF contest in a strong-signal environment, you might want heavier weaponry. But after the war, if your side lost and you had to run to the hills with only what you would carry, a 2-pound KX3 with 2 meter capability would be an excellent choice. > > 73, > Wayne > N6KR > > > "Dave" <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Has anyone done any tests of sensitivity/selectivity and IM3 performance yet please? Some of us use VHF and UHF for more than FM via repeaters, like Auroral, Sporadic-E, Meteor Scatter and enhanced Tropo propagation conditions. The contest people will also want to know about the stong signal handling capabiliies for contest working. In Europe band occupancy can be a bit intense at times in major contests. > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: KX3 2-meter module progress report
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Not yet. Still testing and refining.
73, Wayne N6KR On Oct 14, 2013, at 5:30 PM, Chris Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi Wayne, > > I'm sorry I missed Pacificon this year. This is great news. Can you tell us if you stated any general ETA for preordering and availability? > > On Oct 12, 2013, at 7:32 AM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Hi Dave, >> >> The KX3-2M module occupies less than one cubic inch -- that's about 1/15th the space occupied by the K144XV, the 2-m module used in the K3. Given this, we had to make some design tradeoffs. The KX2-2M's sensitivity is nearly as good as the K144XV's, but the latter has higher power output and somewhat greater dynamic range. >> >> I think if you were trying to win a VHF contest in a strong-signal environment, you might want heavier weaponry. But after the war, if your side lost and you had to run to the hills with only what you would carry, a 2-pound KX3 with 2 meter capability would be an excellent choice. >> >> 73, >> Wayne >> N6KR ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: KX3 2-meter module progress report
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [KX3] Re: KX3 2-meter module progress report Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 11:20:44 -0700 From: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> David Anderson <[hidden email]> wrote: > What is the planned receive frequency coverage of the 2m module? 144-148 MHz, minimum, for full sensitivity. However, we allow tuning well above and below this range (at least 20 MHz), even though sensitivity gradually falls off. For example, this allows copy of weather-band stations at 162 MHz which are generally very strong, at least at my QTH near San Francisco. > Is there any 144-146 band pass filter to limit strong out of band signals from pagers and other fixed services outside the band? > I have in the past studied our RF environment on the band. http://www.gm4jjj.co.uk/preamp/index.html Filtering is included at all stages of the receive path, including a 10-element band-pass filter ahead of the mixer. But because the module is so small, there's no room for a high-Q, tuned band-pass filter at the input; instead, we use low-loss low- and high-pass filters to preserve sensitivity. To reduce the need for narrow input filtering, we used a high-intercept LNA that is likely to do OK in all but the very worst RF environments. This increases current drain of the radio on 2 meters somewhat compared to other bands, but we felt it was an acceptable tradeoff. Since the KX3-2M module has its own antenna jack, you could use an external high-performance 144-148 BPF if required. It isn't clear from your sweeps (the URL above) whether this would be necessary for your use of the module, though it certainly wouldn't hurt. > Is the frequency stability basically the same as that of the KX3? HF/6-m and 2-m stability are correlated since they're referenced to the same LO. For CW/SSB, we strongly recommend performing the KX3's extended VFO temperature compensation procedure, providing typical stability of +/- 2 to 3 Hz on 6 meters and +/- 5 to 10 Hz on 2 meters. The standard compensation (done at the factory) yields greater variance, but is entirely sufficient for FM or AM operation. We hope to simplify the extended compensation procedure in conjunction with the KX2-2M product release. In both transmit and receive mode, the operating frequency is subject to small asynchronous corrections arising from temperature changes. On 6 meters and lower these corrections have a granularity of 1 Hz. On 2 meters they're about 3 Hz due to the conversion scheme used. We're looking into improving the granularity on 2 meters, but the overall range of corrections--about +/- 5 to 10 Hz--is about as good as it gets on this band with a conventional temperature-sense IC.) > You will have gathered that my interest is weak signal work on 144 and as an IF for microwave transporters. What modes do you plan to use? 73, Wayne N6KR ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Hi Wayne,
Can you guess as to whether the KX3's 2m module will perform better or worse than an FT-817 on 2m? What would a performance comparison between a KX3-2m and an FT-817 look like on 2m? The 817 out of band 2m receive is limited. 73, Tom, N2YTF |
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Hi Wayne,
Can you guess as to whether the KX3's 2m module will perform better or worse than an FT-817 on 2m? What would a performance comparison between a KX3-2m and an FT-817 look like on 2m? The 817 out of band 2m receive is very limited. 73, Tom, N2YTF ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: KX3 2-meter module progress report
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In my opinion, wide-band receiver coverage and receiver performance are
often conflicting notions, so are you asking if the KX3-2m will have wider receive frequency coverage than the FT-817 or better receiver performance? 73, Scott, N9AA On 1/12/14 6:54 PM, Tom Tumino wrote: > Hi Wayne, > > Can you guess as to whether the KX3's 2m module will perform better or > worse than an FT-817 on 2m? > > What would a performance comparison between a KX3-2m and an FT-817 look > like on 2m? > > The 817 out of band 2m receive is very limited. > > 73, > Tom, N2YTF > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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You have highlighted one of the things I am getting at. I am looking for a predicted performance comparison in general terms of both receive (selectivity, sensitivity, etc..) and transmit (power out & how clean) on 2m vs an FT-817. Do we know anything more about the TX output power---last I read it was a max of 3 or 5 w?
I am not particularly interested in wideband receive coverage but I am assuming there will be some negative impact on the KX3's receive performance due to its wideband receive. I know there was some mention on the list of tradeoffs due to the small size of the 2m module, and I just want to get a feel for the KX3-2m's mountain topping performance vs an FT-817. There are a wide variety of operating noise levels on summits, everything from dead quiet to packed with repeaters and other transmitters. Hams aren't the only ones who seek out summits to operate from! Sometimes summits can be quite challenging 2m environments even when they have excellent elevation over the surrounding terrain because of deafening local transmitters. With the right rig 2m operation from a summit is really a fantastic experience.
73, Tom, N2YTF On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Scott Manthe-2 [via Elecraft] <[hidden email]> wrote: In my opinion, wide-band receiver coverage and receiver performance are |
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