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KX3-2m CW problem

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paul hippenmeyer

KX3-2m CW problem

Hi all,

CW on 2m is a problem. Especially with speeds higher than 25 wpm the
timing of the sidetone becomes very unregular (eg. continues keying of
dots only). With an external keyer the problem seems to be even worse.
QRQ CW sounds very dirty.

CW on HF bands is perfect.

Any others who can confirm this problem?

73, paul
hb9axl

MCU 2.25
DSP 1.30

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Jack F6AJW

Re: KX3-2m CW problem

Sorry Paul, no answer to your problem with CW (not yet tried).
On my side, I am a bit disappointed with my KX3-2m because of low TX
output (2W instead of 3 announced) and lot of birdies on dummy load in
RX mode. When using an external antenna, noise level increases and some
birdies disappear but not all especially on 144.400 MHz. Do not try to
connect an antenna (flexible quarter wave in my case) directly on SMA
socket, you will receive a lot of birdies so, no way to use my KX3-2m
like I used to do at the end of 70's with my IC-202 transceiver and
telescopic antenna.

Any way to cure my problems?

73's.

Jacques F6AJW/Paris

Le 21/11/2014 18:05, paul hippenmeyer a écrit :

> Hi all,
>
> CW on 2m is a problem. Especially with speeds higher than 25 wpm the
> timing of the sidetone becomes very unregular (eg. continues keying of
> dots only). With an external keyer the problem seems to be even worse.
> QRQ CW sounds very dirty.
>
> CW on HF bands is perfect.
>
> Any others who can confirm this problem?
>
> 73, paul
> hb9axl
>
> MCU 2.25
> DSP 1.30
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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vk2rq

Re: KX3-2m CW problem

In reply to this post by paul hippenmeyer

Just tried 2m CW using a begali paddle plugged in to the KX3 internal keyer, the CW sounds fine to me (up to 30wpm at least, unfortunately that's about as fast as I can go). I'm wondering if you might be having some sort of RF feedback issue? What sort of antenna setup do you have?

73, Matt VK2RQ

> On 22 Nov 2014, at 4:05 am, paul hippenmeyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> CW on 2m is a problem. Especially with speeds higher than 25 wpm the timing of the sidetone becomes very unregular (eg. continues keying of dots only). With an external keyer the problem seems to be even worse. QRQ CW sounds very dirty.
>
> CW on HF bands is perfect.
>
> Any others who can confirm this problem?
>
> 73, paul
> hb9axl
>
> MCU 2.25
> DSP 1.30
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

paul hippenmeyer

Re: KX3-2m CW problem

In reply to this post by paul hippenmeyer

Hi Matt,

Thanks for your response! Good idea, but it is not a RF feedback. It
happens also with VOX=off (RF output power=0). With a audio record (e.g.
Audacitiy or scope) of the sidetone you can see, that dot length is very
unregular (set speed to 40 wpm). If you do the same on a HF band, each
dot has the same lenght - perfect.

On 2m CW is useful with low speeds only. On higher CW speeds the
sidetone is very irritating for keying.

tnx es 73, paul
hb9axl

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Oliver Dröse

KX3-2M power out problem & birdies (was: Re: KX3-2m CW problem)

In reply to this post by Jack F6AJW

Hi Jack,

Elecraft is aware of the power out problem, we reported it already a few
weeks ago. My personal KX3-2M is only putting out 2 watts on SSB, too
(like yours), while the one of a friend of mine even only 1.5 watts (all
measured on a calibrated PEP meter). Both units put out the full 3 watts
on CW & FM. The low SSB power out is reflected on the KX3's internal
meter, too. It seems there are units that have the problem and some that
don't.

Wayne's supposed to work on the problem and it should be fixable by
firmware, that's the last response I had from him 2 weeks ago (after we
had done a few other checks the weeks before). Eagerly waiting for new
beta software to try the fix overhere ...

Concerning the birdies: Yes, there are a few. With a real antenna
connected there are only 3 or 4 left that are audible stronger than s1
in the 144.0 to 144.5 MHz range, non of them stronger than s3. Yes, it
would be great to have no birdies at all in the weak signal band but to
be honest I do not know of any transceiver of the last 20 years (and
I've tried a few) that has no birdies at all. We certainly have to
accept a few compromises when putting so much technique into such a
small package.

Haven't tried connecting just a whip directly to the KX3 yet, always had
a yagi connected as with the small power out you need every bit of
antenna gain you can get anyway to make QSOs. ;-) Have you tried using a
smal HB9CV or 2L yagi a few meters away? Still too many birdies then?

73, Olli - DH8BQA

Contest, DX & radio projects: http://www.dh8bqa.de

Am 21.11.2014 22:38, schrieb Jack F6AJW:

> Sorry Paul, no answer to your problem with CW (not yet tried).
> On my side, I am a bit disappointed with my KX3-2m because of low TX
> output (2W instead of 3 announced) and lot of birdies on dummy load in
> RX mode. When using an external antenna, noise level increases and
> some birdies disappear but not all especially on 144.400 MHz. Do not
> try to connect an antenna (flexible quarter wave in my case) directly
> on SMA socket, you will receive a lot of birdies so, no way to use my
> KX3-2m like I used to do at the end of 70's with my IC-202 transceiver
> and telescopic antenna.
>
> Any way to cure my problems?
>
> 73's.
>
> Jacques F6AJW/Paris
>
>
> Le 21/11/2014 18:05, paul hippenmeyer a écrit :
>> Hi all,
>>
>> CW on 2m is a problem. Especially with speeds higher than 25 wpm the
>> timing of the sidetone becomes very unregular (eg. continues keying
>> of dots only). With an external keyer the problem seems to be even
>> worse. QRQ CW sounds very dirty.
>>
>> CW on HF bands is perfect.
>>
>> Any others who can confirm this problem?
>>
>> 73, paul
>> hb9axl
>>
>> MCU 2.25
>> DSP 1.30
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

paul hippenmeyer

Re: KX3-2m CW problem

In reply to this post by paul hippenmeyer

Bonjour Jacques,

Merci pour votre reponse!

TX output 2W:
Do you apply enought supply voltage? Min 2.5W are specified with 13.8VDC supply.

Birdies:
Yes, it has quite a few. But for my use this is much less tragic than the CW trouble. Hope you will find a solution for your usage.

Merci es 73, paul
hb9axl

----------------------------

Sorry Paul, no answer to your problem with CW (not yet tried).
On my side, I am a bit disappointed with my KX3-2m because of low TX
output (2W instead of 3 announced) and lot of birdies on dummy load in
RX mode. When using an external antenna, noise level increases and some
birdies disappear but not all especially on 144.400 MHz. Do not try to
connect an antenna (flexible quarter wave in my case) directly on SMA
socket, you will receive a lot of birdies so, no way to use my KX3-2m
like I used to do at the end of 70's with my IC-202 transceiver and
telescopic antenna.

Any way to cure my problems?

73's.

Jacques F6AJW/Paris

Le 21/11/2014 18:05, paul hippenmeyer a ?crit :

vk2rq

Re: KX3-2m CW problem

In reply to this post by paul hippenmeyer

Very interesting -- I hooked the KX3 up to a scope, set it at 30wpm on 2m with VOX OFF, and sent a continual stream of dits. This is what I saw:
http://www.vk2rq.ampr.org//images/IMG_0271.jpg

The dits are in fact quite uneven (some nearly twice as long as others), and if you listen to a continuous stream of dits it is indeed obvious to the ear. Also as you say, this problem does not occur on the other bands.

It seems there may be some sort of timing issue in the firmware; I guess this will get added somewhere on the "to-do" list.

73, Matt VK2RQ.

> On 22 Nov 2014, at 10:17 pm, paul hippenmeyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> Thanks for your response! Good idea, but it is not a RF feedback. It happens also with VOX=off (RF output power=0). With a audio record (e.g. Audacitiy or scope) of the sidetone you can see, that dot length is very unregular (set speed to 40 wpm). If you do the same on a HF band, each dot has the same lenght - perfect.
>
> On 2m CW is useful with low speeds only. On higher CW speeds the sidetone is very irritating for keying.
>
> tnx es 73, paul hb9axl
>
>
>
>
> Just tried 2m CW using a begali paddle plugged in to the KX3 internal keyer, the CW sounds fine to me (up to 30wpm at least, unfortunately that's about as fast as I can go). I'm wondering if you might be having some sort of RF feedback issue? What sort of antenna setup do you have?
>
> 73, Matt VK2RQ
>
> On 22 Nov 2014, at 4:05 am, paul hippenmeyer<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> CW on 2m is a problem. Especially with speeds higher than 25 wpm the timing of the sidetone becomes very unregular (eg. continues keying of dots only). With an external keyer the problem seems to be even worse. QRQ CW sounds very dirty.
>
> CW on HF bands is perfect.
>
> Any others who can confirm this problem?
>
> 73, paul
> hb9axl
>
> MCU 2.25
> DSP 1.30
>
>

wayne burdick

Re: KX3-2m CW problem

Administrator

On the list, along with an improvement in SSB power output.

Thanks,
Wayne
N6KR

On Nov 22, 2014, at 12:29 PM, Matt VK2RQ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Very interesting -- I hooked the KX3 up to a scope, set it at 30wpm on 2m with VOX OFF, and sent a continual stream of dits. This is what I saw:
> http://www.vk2rq.ampr.org//images/IMG_0271.jpg
>
> The dits are in fact quite uneven (some nearly twice as long as others), and if you listen to a continuous stream of dits it is indeed obvious to the ear. Also as you say, this problem does not occur on the other bands.
>
> It seems there may be some sort of timing issue in the firmware; I guess this will get added somewhere on the "to-do" list.
>
> 73, Matt VK2RQ.
>
>> On 22 Nov 2014, at 10:17 pm, paul hippenmeyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Matt,
>>
>> Thanks for your response! Good idea, but it is not a RF feedback. It happens also with VOX=off (RF output power=0). With a audio record (e.g. Audacitiy or scope) of the sidetone you can see, that dot length is very unregular (set speed to 40 wpm). If you do the same on a HF band, each dot has the same lenght - perfect.
>>
>> On 2m CW is useful with low speeds only. On higher CW speeds the sidetone is very irritating for keying.
>>
>> tnx es 73, paul hb9axl
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Just tried 2m CW using a begali paddle plugged in to the KX3 internal keyer, the CW sounds fine to me (up to 30wpm at least, unfortunately that's about as fast as I can go). I'm wondering if you might be having some sort of RF feedback issue? What sort of antenna setup do you have?
>>
>> 73, Matt VK2RQ
>>
>> On 22 Nov 2014, at 4:05 am, paul hippenmeyer<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> CW on 2m is a problem. Especially with speeds higher than 25 wpm the timing of the sidetone becomes very unregular (eg. continues keying of dots only). With an external keyer the problem seems to be even worse. QRQ CW sounds very dirty.
>>
>> CW on HF bands is perfect.
>>
>> Any others who can confirm this problem?
>>
>> 73, paul
>> hb9axl
>>
>> MCU 2.25
>> DSP 1.30
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

paul hippenmeyer

Re: KX3-2m CW problem

Keying on the other transverter bands is fine, it's just the KX3-2m module.

Thanks to all,
73, paul
hb9axl

Am 22.11.2014 21:38, schrieb Wayne Burdick:

> On the list, along with an improvement in SSB power output.
>
> Thanks,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> On Nov 22, 2014, at 12:29 PM, Matt VK2RQ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Very interesting -- I hooked the KX3 up to a scope, set it at 30wpm on 2m with VOX OFF, and sent a continual stream of dits. This is what I saw:
>> http://www.vk2rq.ampr.org//images/IMG_0271.jpg
>>
>> The dits are in fact quite uneven (some nearly twice as long as others), and if you listen to a continuous stream of dits it is indeed obvious to the ear. Also as you say, this problem does not occur on the other bands.
>>
>> It seems there may be some sort of timing issue in the firmware; I guess this will get added somewhere on the "to-do" list.
>>
>> 73, Matt VK2RQ.
>>
>>> On 22 Nov 2014, at 10:17 pm, paul hippenmeyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Matt,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your response! Good idea, but it is not a RF feedback. It happens also with VOX=off (RF output power=0). With a audio record (e.g. Audacitiy or scope) of the sidetone you can see, that dot length is very unregular (set speed to 40 wpm). If you do the same on a HF band, each dot has the same lenght - perfect.
>>>
>>> On 2m CW is useful with low speeds only. On higher CW speeds the sidetone is very irritating for keying.
>>>
>>> tnx es 73, paul hb9axl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just tried 2m CW using a begali paddle plugged in to the KX3 internal keyer, the CW sounds fine to me (up to 30wpm at least, unfortunately that's about as fast as I can go). I'm wondering if you might be having some sort of RF feedback issue? What sort of antenna setup do you have?
>>>
>>> 73, Matt VK2RQ
>>>
>>> On 22 Nov 2014, at 4:05 am, paul hippenmeyer<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> CW on 2m is a problem. Especially with speeds higher than 25 wpm the timing of the sidetone becomes very unregular (eg. continues keying of dots only). With an external keyer the problem seems to be even worse. QRQ CW sounds very dirty.
>>>
>>> CW on HF bands is perfect.
>>>
>>> Any others who can confirm this problem?
>>>
>>> 73, paul
>>> hb9axl
>>>
>>> MCU 2.25
>>> DSP 1.30
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

Jack F6AJW

Re: KX3-2m CW problem

In reply to this post by paul hippenmeyer

Good evening /bonsoir Paul, Olli, Wayne and All,

Thank you for your comments. Here, output power is the same using
internal batteries or external 13.8V in FM or SSB; here, I can perform
precise power measurements up to 24 GHz. Thanks in anticipation, Wayne,
for power improvement to come.... May be that a future software release
will manage to also improve rejection of birdies too. For the moment, I
have just tried with an external antenna 3 elements Yagi antenna located
a few meters from KX3 and it was the same situation regarding internal
birdies. Interesting to know what is the behaviour of 4m module compared
to the 2m one?

73's.

Jacques F6AJW/ Paris

Le 22/11/2014 17:17, paul hippenmeyer a écrit :

> Bonjour Jacques,
>
> Merci pour votre reponse!
>
> TX output 2W:
> Do you apply enought supply voltage? Min 2.5W are specified with
> 13.8VDC supply.
>
> Birdies:
> Yes, it has quite a few. But for my use this is much less tragic than
> the CW trouble. Hope you will find a solution for your usage.
>
> Merci es 73, paul
> hb9axl
>
> ----------------------------
>
>
> Sorry Paul, no answer to your problem with CW (not yet tried).
> On my side, I am a bit disappointed with my KX3-2m because of low TX
> output (2W instead of 3 announced) and lot of birdies on dummy load in
> RX mode. When using an external antenna, noise level increases and some
> birdies disappear but not all especially on 144.400 MHz. Do not try to
> connect an antenna (flexible quarter wave in my case) directly on SMA
> socket, you will receive a lot of birdies so, no way to use my KX3-2m
> like I used to do at the end of 70's with my IC-202 transceiver and
> telescopic antenna.
>
> Any way to cure my problems?
>
> 73's.
>
> Jacques F6AJW/Paris
>
>
> Le 21/11/2014 18:05, paul hippenmeyer a ?crit :
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> CW on 2m is a problem. Especially with speeds higher than 25 wpm the
>> timing of the sidetone becomes very unregular (eg. continues keying of
>> dots only). With an external keyer the problem seems to be even worse.
>> QRQ CW sounds very dirty.
>>
>> CW on HF bands is perfect.
>>
>> Any others who can confirm this problem?
>>
>> 73, paul
>> hb9axl
>>
>> MCU 2.25
>> DSP 1.30

wayne burdick

KX3-2M low power output in SSB mode -- fixed

Administrator

In reply to this post by Oliver Dröse

I believe I have this fixed. Drive power was internally limited and scaled in a way that affected only SSB mode, especially with speech compression turned on. If you've noticed lower power output on the 2-meter module in SSB mode than in CW or FM modes, and would like to try the revised firmware, please email me directly.

I have several other KX3 firmware changes to make, e.g. improving high-speed CW keying on 2 meters. These will have to wait until after the Thanksgiving holiday.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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