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N2TK

Re: OT: For New Hams, How to Tell What an Amp Will Do For Your Signal

Dave,
Nice work!
We did this empirically about 30 years ago. Convinced a bunch of us that 1db
is worth fighting for. As you show it is how you compare against someone
else who is also calling at the same time. 2-3 db increase is almost like a
capture effect to our ears as on FM. In addition if you are at the noise
level of the receiving station it may not take much power increase to make
the difference whether or not you are heard.
You don't always need 100W or 1500W, but it is nice to have it there if you
need it.

Which reminds me, I haven't asked Elecraft for quite some time, where is my
160-6M KPA1500? :-)

73,
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 7:03 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: For New Hams, How to Tell What an Amp Will Do
For Your Signal

That's a good resource but it doesn't tell the whole story. An amplifier
will give you around 10 db improvement in signal on the other end. That's
more than the difference between a dipole and a five element monobander. As
little as 3 or 4 db will make a significant difference when competing
against others in a pileup, and of course as little as 2 db can make the
difference between no copy and clear copy if your signal is right at the
noise level.

http://www.ab7e.com/weak_signal/mdd.html

Hams have turned their noses up at amplifiers for decades, but the reality
is that an amplifier and a decent vertical is often a more cost effective
way to put out a good signal than is low power to a tower and big antenna
... especially if you live in a low noise area where you don't need lots of
discrimination to hear DX (and even then there are compact receive loops
that make possible alternatives).

Dave AB7E

On 3/22/2013 12:49 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> For the newer hams, here's an interesting resource that will
> demonstrate to you what a DX signal sounds like at 100 watts, 10
> watts, 1 watt and 0.1 watt. All you have to do it tune into the beacon
> frequency of 14.100, 18.110, 21.150, 24.930, 28.200 using CW mode and
> listen. The beacon stations in 18 countries take turns sending call
> signs and 4 dashes, each dash in descending power level. You might be
> amazed at how often you can hear 10 watts or less clearly from half way
around the world when the band is open.

>
> When the band is not open, a kilowatt doesn't get through.
>
> A complete list of the stations, locations and the transmission
> sequence is
> at:
>
> http://www.ncdxf.org/beacon/beaconSchedule.html
>
> IIRC, all of the stations use a simple 1/4 wave vertical antenna.
>
> I'm not saying that an amplifier isn't useful, but this helps put the
> advantage of having one in perspective.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

David Gilbert

Re: OT: For New Hams, How to Tell What an Amp Will Do For Your Signal

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

Which has exactly been my point all along. Ham radio is situational ...
sometimes an amp is a waste of money and coal, and other times it is a
necessity. What you experience listening to beacons may be the same as
what you find chasing a random contact on a clear band, but it is not
the same as what you experience in a pileup, or in a contest, or when
the guy on the other end has a lot of noise.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 3/23/2013 7:56 AM, Vic, K2VCO wrote:
>
>
> The truth is, it depends on what you are trying to do with your radio.
> If you are a DXer, especially on 160/80 meters, then even 1 dB may be
> the difference between getting a QSO and getting a "?" from a DX station.
>
> If your operating style is to contact stations when signals are
> relatively good, then who cares if you are S7 or S9?

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David Gilbert

Re: OT: For New Hams, How to Tell What an Amp Will Do For Your Signal

In reply to this post by David Gilbert

I can agree with all of that Ron, and in fact it may surprise many that
I really enjoy working QRP myself. I have a K3 and a KW amp but I hang
on to both my K1 and my old TS-130V for exactly those reasons.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 3/23/2013 8:27 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> No argument Dave.
>
> You wrote, "If you are competing against other hams, such as calling CQ in a
> contest or calling DX from within a pileup,.."
>
> Of course that's a different situation from listening to a signal on a clear
> frequency.
>
> That's why I don't join pileups calling DX and you'll find me on the WARC
> bands during contests.
>
> And I know a lot of other Hams who operate just as I do, transmitting only
> on clear frequencies. Our sort of operation eliminates the need to have a
> big signal that can be copied through someone else's big signal.
>
> The beacons demonstrate just how little power is necessary to work the world
> on a clear frequency.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 11:43 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: For New Hams, How to Tell What an Amp Will Do
> For Your Signal
>
>
> I guess I wasn't particularly clear, or maybe I just didn't say it often
> enough. If you are competing against other hams, such as calling CQ in a
> contest or calling DX from within a pileup, EVERY db counts no matter how
> good the propagation is. An amplifier will often win the day for you even
> if you can hear the other guy while he's running QRP.
>
> The same situation exists if it is noisy on the other end of the path, where
> as little as two db will make the difference between clear copy and no copy.
> Check the files on my website if you don't agree. The problem is ... the
> noise level on the other end may be significantly different than the noise
> level on your end. Just because you can hear him doesn't mean he can hear
> you.
>
> More importantly, propagation doesn't open up to the same path loss each day
> ... some days 5 watts gets the job done and some days even 1500 won't cut
> it. And just because you can hear F5XXX running 5 watts doesn't mean that
> you can hear PA3YYY unless he's running 1500 watts.
>
> My point is that EVERYTHING is situational and generalizations don't do
> newcomers many favors.
>
> Dave AB7E
>
>
>
>
> On 3/22/2013 8:34 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
>> Yes. An amp that takes you up 10:1 in power, e.g. 20 watts to 200
>> watts or
>> 100 watts to 1,000 watts, makes a 10 dB difference in signal -- just a
>> bit over one S-unit.
>>
>> I pointed out the beacon resource as a good example of how often that
>> extra power is not needed on H.F., especially for narrow bandwidth modes.
>> Otherwise we would not have QRP enthusiasts using simple verticals
>> with DXCC awards.
>>
>> I liked the idea that new Hams can listen to the beacons themselves
>> and decide whether the power difference is all that important.
>>
>> 73, Ron AC7AC
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> That's a good resource but it doesn't tell the whole story. An
>> amplifier will give you around 10 db improvement in signal on the
>> other end. That's more than the difference between a dipole and a
>> five element monobander. As little as 3 or 4 db will make a
>> significant difference when competing against others in a pileup, and
>> of course as little as 2 db can make the difference between no copy
>> and clear copy if your signal is right at the noise level.
>>
>> http://www.ab7e.com/weak_signal/mdd.html
>>
>> Hams have turned their noses up at amplifiers for decades, but the
>> reality is that an amplifier and a decent vertical is often a more
>> cost effective way to put out a good signal than is low power to a
>> tower and big antenna ... especially if you live in a low noise area
>> where you don't need lots of discrimination to hear DX (and even then
>> there are compact receive loops that make possible alternatives).
>>
>> Dave AB7En 3/22/2013 12:49 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
>>> For the newer hams, here's an interesting resource that will
>>> demonstrate to you what a DX signal sounds like at 100 watts, 10
>>> watts, 1 watt and 0.1 watt. All you have to do it tune into the
>>> beacon frequency of 14.100, 18.110, 21.150, 24.930, 28.200 using CW
>>> mode and listen. The beacon stations in 18 countries take turns
>>> sending call signs and 4 dashes, each dash in descending power level.
>>> You might be amazed at how often you can hear 10 watts or less
>>> clearly from half way
>> around the world when the band is open.
>>> When the band is not open, a kilowatt doesn't get through.
>>>
>>> A complete list of the stations, locations and the transmission
>>> sequence is
>>> at:
>>>
>>> http://www.ncdxf.org/beacon/beaconSchedule.html
>>>
>>> IIRC, all of the stations use a simple 1/4 wave vertical antenna.
>>>
>>> I'm not saying that an amplifier isn't useful, but this helps put the
>>> advantage of having one in perspective.
>>>
>>> 73, Ron AC7AC
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

n7ws

Re: OT: For New Hams, How to Tell What an Amp Will Do For Your Signal

In reply to this post by KD8NNU

The beacons are on CW. They are spread around the world (http://www.ncdxf.org/beacon/beaconlocations.html) and unless circumstances are highly unusual you should hear at least one of them. You do need to listen long enough to get through the complete rotation (three minutes)

Wes N7WS.

--- On Sat, 3/23/13, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

All this beacon talk has forced me to check out 14.1 and there is nothing to be heard at my qth with several antennas.

So I am wondering what mode one needs to listen with. I was assuming CW but I can not hear a signal on USB or LSB on that dial frequency. I know the band is not so great today but I can get other digital modes work and with no problem at all.

Don

~73
Don
KD8NNU
FH#4107
-.- -.. ---.. –. –. ..-
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EricJ-2

Re: OT: For New Hams, How to Tell What an Amp Will Do For Your Signal

In reply to this post by N2TK

In fact, the whole concept is codified in FCC Part 97

§ 97.313 Transmitter power standards.

(a) An amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary
to carry out the desired communications.

Sometimes that's 500mw, sometimes it's a lot more.

Ultimately, the objective of this hobby is communication. If you can
communicate at only 500 mw, do so; in fact, the law requires it. If you
need 500 watts, you should do so. Not to means you fail at the most
basic objective of the hobby.

90% of the time I'm CW QRP. The rest of the time I have my K2/10 (SN
567) cranked to the 15 watt max.

Eric
KE6US
K1/KX1/K2

On 3/23/2013 8:42 AM, N2TK, Tony wrote:

> Dave,
> Nice work!
> We did this empirically about 30 years ago. Convinced a bunch of us that 1db
> is worth fighting for. As you show it is how you compare against someone
> else who is also calling at the same time. 2-3 db increase is almost like a
> capture effect to our ears as on FM. In addition if you are at the noise
> level of the receiving station it may not take much power increase to make
> the difference whether or not you are heard.
> You don't always need 100W or 1500W, but it is nice to have it there if you
> need it.
>
> Which reminds me, I haven't asked Elecraft for quite some time, where is my
> 160-6M KPA1500? :-)
>
> 73,
> N2TK, Tony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 7:03 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: For New Hams, How to Tell What an Amp Will Do
> For Your Signal
>
>
> That's a good resource but it doesn't tell the whole story. An amplifier
> will give you around 10 db improvement in signal on the other end. That's
> more than the difference between a dipole and a five element monobander. As
> little as 3 or 4 db will make a significant difference when competing
> against others in a pileup, and of course as little as 2 db can make the
> difference between no copy and clear copy if your signal is right at the
> noise level.
>
> http://www.ab7e.com/weak_signal/mdd.html
>
> Hams have turned their noses up at amplifiers for decades, but the reality
> is that an amplifier and a decent vertical is often a more cost effective
> way to put out a good signal than is low power to a tower and big antenna
> ... especially if you live in a low noise area where you don't need lots of
> discrimination to hear DX (and even then there are compact receive loops
> that make possible alternatives).
>
> Dave AB7E
>
>
>
> On 3/22/2013 12:49 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
>> For the newer hams, here's an interesting resource that will
>> demonstrate to you what a DX signal sounds like at 100 watts, 10
>> watts, 1 watt and 0.1 watt. All you have to do it tune into the beacon
>> frequency of 14.100, 18.110, 21.150, 24.930, 28.200 using CW mode and
>> listen. The beacon stations in 18 countries take turns sending call
>> signs and 4 dashes, each dash in descending power level. You might be
>> amazed at how often you can hear 10 watts or less clearly from half way
> around the world when the band is open.
>> When the band is not open, a kilowatt doesn't get through.
>>
>> A complete list of the stations, locations and the transmission
>> sequence is
>> at:
>>
>> http://www.ncdxf.org/beacon/beaconSchedule.html
>>
>> IIRC, all of the stations use a simple 1/4 wave vertical antenna.
>>
>> I'm not saying that an amplifier isn't useful, but this helps put the
>> advantage of having one in perspective.
>>
>> 73, Ron AC7AC
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

N0AZZ

Re: OT: For New Hams, How to Tell What an Amp Will Do For Your Signal

It really depends on how badly you want the contact it your getting very
close to Honor Roll and so is your age, use all that you have. I work QRP
and QRO both enjoy both equally.

73,
Fred/N0AZZ
K3 Ser #'s 6730/5299--KX3 # 2573--K2/100--KAT100
P3/SVGA--KPA500--KAT500--W2

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of EricJ
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 1:56 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: For New Hams, How to Tell What an Amp Will Do
For Your Signal

In fact, the whole concept is codified in FCC Part 97

§ 97.313 Transmitter power standards.

(a) An amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to
carry out the desired communications.

Sometimes that's 500mw, sometimes it's a lot more.

Ultimately, the objective of this hobby is communication. If you can
communicate at only 500 mw, do so; in fact, the law requires it. If you need
500 watts, you should do so. Not to means you fail at the most basic
objective of the hobby.

90% of the time I'm CW QRP. The rest of the time I have my K2/10 (SN
567) cranked to the 15 watt max.

Eric
KE6US
K1/KX1/K2

On 3/23/2013 8:42 AM, N2TK, Tony wrote:
> Dave,
> Nice work!
> We did this empirically about 30 years ago. Convinced a bunch of us
> that 1db is worth fighting for. As you show it is how you compare
> against someone else who is also calling at the same time. 2-3 db
> increase is almost like a capture effect to our ears as on FM. In
> addition if you are at the noise level of the receiving station it may
> not take much power increase to make the difference whether or not you are
heard.

> You don't always need 100W or 1500W, but it is nice to have it there
> if you need it.
>
> Which reminds me, I haven't asked Elecraft for quite some time, where
> is my 160-6M KPA1500? :-)
>
> 73,
> N2TK, Tony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 7:03 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: For New Hams, How to Tell What an Amp Will
> Do For Your Signal
>
>
> That's a good resource but it doesn't tell the whole story. An
> amplifier will give you around 10 db improvement in signal on the
> other end. That's more than the difference between a dipole and a
> five element monobander. As little as 3 or 4 db will make a
> significant difference when competing against others in a pileup, and
> of course as little as 2 db can make the difference between no copy
> and clear copy if your signal is right at the noise level.
>
> http://www.ab7e.com/weak_signal/mdd.html
>
> Hams have turned their noses up at amplifiers for decades, but the
> reality is that an amplifier and a decent vertical is often a more
> cost effective way to put out a good signal than is low power to a
> tower and big antenna ... especially if you live in a low noise area
> where you don't need lots of discrimination to hear DX (and even then
> there are compact receive loops that make possible alternatives).
>
> Dave AB7E
>
>
>
> On 3/22/2013 12:49 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
>> For the newer hams, here's an interesting resource that will
>> demonstrate to you what a DX signal sounds like at 100 watts, 10
>> watts, 1 watt and 0.1 watt. All you have to do it tune into the
>> beacon frequency of 14.100, 18.110, 21.150, 24.930, 28.200 using CW
>> mode and listen. The beacon stations in 18 countries take turns
>> sending call signs and 4 dashes, each dash in descending power level.
>> You might be amazed at how often you can hear 10 watts or less
>> clearly from half way
> around the world when the band is open.
>> When the band is not open, a kilowatt doesn't get through.
>>
>> A complete list of the stations, locations and the transmission
>> sequence is
>> at:
>>
>> http://www.ncdxf.org/beacon/beaconSchedule.html
>>
>> IIRC, all of the stations use a simple 1/4 wave vertical antenna.
>>
>> I'm not saying that an amplifier isn't useful, but this helps put the
>> advantage of having one in perspective.
>>
>> 73, Ron AC7AC
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>> email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

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N0AZZ

Re: KX3 Amp

In reply to this post by n4cc

My KX3 will output 354w with 11w of drive power. I guess I really don't need
one other than what I have.

73,
Fred/N0AZZ
K3 Ser #'s 6730/5299--KX3 # 2573--K2/100--KAT100
P3/SVGA--KPA500--KAT500--W2

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Greg
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 3:27 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Amp

Well it may be a waste of money for you but it is worth about 10 db to
everyone else... ;<) 73, Greg-N4CC

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gil G.
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 2:54 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Amp

I have been using my KX3 for a few months now, and never needed an amp.
Nine out of ten times, if I hear someone, they can hear me (CW).
Actually, even with my K1 at 6W, I never felt the need.
For SSB, I can see how it would help, but for CW, it's a waste of money.

Gil.

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6195 - Release Date: 03/21/13

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Gary Gregory-2

Re: KX3 Amp

Not sure 11W drive is good for normal rag chewing with the KX3. It does get
rather hot to touch.

I would hope that the KXPA100 would only require 5W for 100W output or
close to that.

73

On 24 March 2013 18:27, Fred Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My KX3 will output 354w with 11w of drive power. I guess I really don't
> need
> one other than what I have.
>
>
> 73,
> Fred/N0AZZ
> K3 Ser #'s 6730/5299--KX3 # 2573--K2/100--KAT100
> P3/SVGA--KPA500--KAT500--W2
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Greg
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 3:27 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Amp
>
> Well it may be a waste of money for you but it is worth about 10 db to
> everyone else... ;<) 73, Greg-N4CC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gil G.
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 2:54 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Amp
>
> I have been using my KX3 for a few months now, and never needed an amp.
> Nine out of ten times, if I hear someone, they can hear me (CW).
> Actually, even with my K1 at 6W, I never felt the need.
> For SSB, I can see how it would help, but for CW, it's a waste of money.
>
> Gil.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6195 - Release Date: 03/21/13
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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>
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--
*Gary - VK1ZZ
Skype: Gary.VK1ZZ
Motorhome Portable
The Shack*
*Elecraft K3
P3 Panadapter
KPA500FT
KAT500FT**
KX3-K
*
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N0AZZ

Re: KX3 Amp

Use a small computer fan to cool it works fine for me but I don't rag chew
just DX. At 5w I still can get about 150w but the amp doesn't care for it.
I have never tried it with my KPA500 to see what it would do.

73,

Fred/N0AZZ

K3 Ser #'s 6730/5299--KX3 # 2573--K2/100--KAT100

P3/SVGA--KPA500--KAT500--W2

From: Gary Gregory [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 4:12 AM
To: Fred Smith
Cc: Greg; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Amp

Not sure 11W drive is good for normal rag chewing with the KX3. It does get
rather hot to touch.

I would hope that the KXPA100 would only require 5W for 100W output or close
to that.

73

On 24 March 2013 18:27, Fred Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

My KX3 will output 354w with 11w of drive power. I guess I really don't need
one other than what I have.

73,
Fred/N0AZZ
K3 Ser #'s 6730/5299--KX3 # 2573--K2/100--KAT100
P3/SVGA--KPA500--KAT500--W2

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Greg
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 3:27 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Amp

Well it may be a waste of money for you but it is worth about 10 db to
everyone else... ;<) 73, Greg-N4CC

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gil G.
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 2:54 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Amp

I have been using my KX3 for a few months now, and never needed an amp.
Nine out of ten times, if I hear someone, they can hear me (CW).
Actually, even with my K1 at 6W, I never felt the need.
For SSB, I can see how it would help, but for CW, it's a waste of money.

Gil.

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6195 - Release Date: 03/21/13

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6195 - Release Date: 03/21/13

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--
Gary - VK1ZZ
Skype: Gary.VK1ZZ
Motorhome Portable
The Shack
Elecraft K3
P3 Panadapter
KPA500FT
KAT500FT
KX3-K

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6195 - Release Date: 03/21/13

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Igor Sokolov-2

Re: KX3 Amp

In reply to this post by Gary Gregory-2

I get 200-250W from HLA 300 Plus with 5W from KX3. Suits me just fine. HLA
300 Plus sells at Amazon for under 500 $ Fully automatic and integrates
perfectly with KX3.
With 80m antenna I also use KAT500 after HLA 300.

73, Igor UA9CDC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gregory" <[hidden email]>
To: "Fred Smith" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Amp

> Not sure 11W drive is good for normal rag chewing with the KX3. It does
> get
> rather hot to touch.
>
> I would hope that the KXPA100 would only require 5W for 100W output or
> close to that.
>
> 73
>
> On 24 March 2013 18:27, Fred Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> My KX3 will output 354w with 11w of drive power. I guess I really don't
>> need
>> one other than what I have.
>>
>>
>> 73,
>> Fred/N0AZZ
>> K3 Ser #'s 6730/5299--KX3 # 2573--K2/100--KAT100
>> P3/SVGA--KPA500--KAT500--W2
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Greg
>> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 3:27 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Amp
>>
>> Well it may be a waste of money for you but it is worth about 10 db to
>> everyone else... ;<) 73, Greg-N4CC
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gil G.
>> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 2:54 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Amp
>>
>> I have been using my KX3 for a few months now, and never needed an amp.
>> Nine out of ten times, if I hear someone, they can hear me (CW).
>> Actually, even with my K1 at 6W, I never felt the need.
>> For SSB, I can see how it would help, but for CW, it's a waste of money.
>>
>> Gil.
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
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>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6195 - Release Date: 03/21/13
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6195 - Release Date: 03/21/13
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Gary - VK1ZZ
> Skype: Gary.VK1ZZ
> Motorhome Portable
> The Shack*
> *Elecraft K3
> P3 Panadapter
> KPA500FT
> KAT500FT**
> KX3-K
> *
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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Jim Brown-10

Re: KX3 Amp

On 3/24/2013 3:20 AM, Igor Sokolov wrote:
> I get 200-250W from HLA 300 Plus with 5W from KX3. Suits me just fine.
> HLA 300 Plus sells at Amazon for under 500 $ Fully automatic and
> integrates perfectly with KX3.

What is the IMD performance of this amplifier? Have you measured it?
Have you seen measurements from a trustworthy lab? I've seen
observations on the internet that power must be limited to 100W to meet
FCC IMD specs. There's enough splatter, clicks, and other trash on the
ham bands without adding more.

I know from talking with Elecraft design engineers that the output of
their rigs and power amplifiers is carefully limited so that their
signals are always clean.

73, Jim K9YC
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Edward R Cole

Re: KX3 Amp

In reply to this post by Giff Hammar

Guys,

I run my KX3 as IF on 2m FM running either 3w for 25w or 5w for 50w
out of the 2m amplifier. I have not noticed the KX3 getting overly
hot, even though FM is key down continuous carrier.

But I would be careful at full power. I can run 270w with 12w input
on 20m. With 5w input I get 130w (note the values in the table on
the website are overrated due to a measurement error - the K3 outputs
12w and not 15w). This using my CCI model EB27A amplifier rated for
300w with 20w drive.
http://www.kl7uw.com/HF-300PA.htm

I have found most amps will provide usable though lower output if
underdriven. The KXPA100 may be capable of something like 60w with
5w drive? Gain often is a bit higher as lower levels of drive.

73, Ed - KL7UW
---------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 19:11:33 +1000
From: Gary Gregory <[hidden email]>
To: Fred Smith <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Amp

Not sure 11W drive is good for normal rag chewing with the KX3. It does get
rather hot to touch.

I would hope that the KXPA100 would only require 5W for 100W output or
close to that.

73

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KF5TEU

Re: KX3 Amp

In reply to this post by Dominic Baines-2

Unfortunately , yes , I do need an amp. . We are going out over 200 mi. from the nearest real town and if we need help then I would really love to get through vs. be falsely proud of my QST skills that gets me nothing but dead air while we hike back with no medical or rescue personnel knowing we are in trouble. So , does anyone have a good amp. suggestion with experience ? Thanks in advance.

Jim Brown-10

Re: KX3 Amp

On 6/30/2013 4:42 AM, KF5TEU wrote:
> Unfortunately , yes , I do need an amp. . We are going out over 200 mi. from
> the nearest real town and if we need help then I would really love to get
> through vs. be falsely proud of my QST skills that gets me nothing but dead
> air

It's important to understand that the power to run an amp must come from
MUCH HEAVIER batteries that must be carried along with the radio. Far
better to LEARN how antennas work, learn CW if you don't already know
it, and carry the wire and other light weight antenna accessories
required to make reliable contacts with stuff you CAN carry.

Putting some numbers to it, a 100W Elecraft rig requires 20A to
transmit. A 7Ah battery will give you 20 minutes of transmitting time at
100W, but it will give you more than two HOURS at 5W.

73, Jim K9YC
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ny4g

Re: KX3 Amp

Jim is right in one sense that the 100w amp will consume battery life quickly. However, if what you want is the ability to get a signal out at marginal propagation conditions, then a 50 watt amp if used frugally can get a stronger signal out. Several amps fall into this category with about a 9 dB gain in signal strength from 5 watts - and pulling about 7-10 amps of drain on the battery on TX - Tokyo HiPower HL45B, HFPacker, and Hardrock50. The latter 2 you have to build yourself. The Hardrock is only available used if someone is willing to part with theirs. Only about 100 of the Hardrocks have been built. Sales are on hold pending FCC certification. The Elecraft amp can also be tuned down for less power out and can be tuned to 100w if needed. You do have to carry enough battery to sustain the anticipated TX time. You will be surprised at how effective 5 or 10 watts can be and effort is probably better directed at effective antenna systems. 100w into a dummy load th
at radiates (my way of describing a poor antenna) is a poor substitute for 10 watts into a resonant wire. Up high and in the clear is always better. I have always had better luck with wire in the clear than verticals on a picnic table in terms of reach.

Ariel NY4G

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 30, 2013, at 4:18 PM, "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 6/30/2013 4:42 AM, KF5TEU wrote:
>> Unfortunately , yes , I do need an amp. . We are going out over 200 mi. from
>> the nearest real town and if we need help then I would really love to get
>> through vs. be falsely proud of my QST skills that gets me nothing but dead
>> air
>
> It's important to understand that the power to run an amp must come from MUCH HEAVIER batteries that must be carried along with the radio. Far better to LEARN how antennas work, learn CW if you don't already know it, and carry the wire and other light weight antenna accessories required to make reliable contacts with stuff you CAN carry.
>
> Putting some numbers to it, a 100W Elecraft rig requires 20A to transmit. A 7Ah battery will give you 20 minutes of transmitting time at 100W, but it will give you more than two HOURS at 5W.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Mel

Re: KX3 Amp

Which brings us full circle as to what is it you are trying to accomplish? The ham with a KX3 and a chuck of wire will do (OK) on a hill top or by the ocean-side. This works very well for the week end warriors etc. Add a solar panel and the duration goes way up. Add a resonant antenna not needing a ground and you gain again. Add a small amp and suitable battery with upgraded solar panel and you go up again. Add an RV with internal batteries, and the night goes on. Anyone keeping score??

Pick you battle and you will always be ahead. If you try to win the war with entry level, you lose. I personally pick my battles carefully and watch my allotted budget, I win.

Mel, K6KBE

________________________________
From: Ariel Jacala <[hidden email]>
To: elecraft reflector <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Amp

Jim is right in one sense that the 100w amp will consume battery life quickly. However, if what you want is the ability to get a signal out at marginal propagation conditions, then a 50 watt amp if used frugally can get a stronger signal out. Several amps fall into this category with about a 9 dB gain in signal strength from 5 watts - and pulling about 7-10 amps of drain on the battery on TX - Tokyo HiPower HL45B, HFPacker, and Hardrock50. The latter 2 you have to build yourself. The Hardrock is only available used if someone is willing to part with theirs. Only about 100 of the Hardrocks have been built. Sales are on hold pending FCC certification. The Elecraft amp can also be tuned down for less power out and can be tuned to 100w if needed. You do have to carry enough battery to sustain the anticipated TX time. You will be surprised at how effective 5 or 10 watts can be and effort is probably better directed at effective antenna
systems. 100w into a dummy load th
at radiates (my way of describing a poor antenna) is a poor substitute for 10 watts into a resonant wire. Up high and in the clear is always better. I have always had better luck with wire in the clear than verticals on a picnic table in terms of reach.

Ariel NY4G

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 30, 2013, at 4:18 PM, "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: KX3 Amp

In reply to this post by KF5TEU

I love amateur radio.

However, if I was living 200 miles from the nearest real town, I'd
invest in a good Personal Locator Beacon (or two) . The kind with a
built-in GPS.

Sure, it's not "communications" but it's a one-button "come get us,
we're right here" and the Search and Rescue Satellites are quite good.

I keep mine in the car.

-- Lynn

On 6/30/2013 4:42 AM, KF5TEU wrote:

> Unfortunately , yes , I do need an amp. . We are going out over 200 mi. from
> the nearest real town and if we need help then I would really love to get
> through vs. be falsely proud of my QST skills that gets me nothing but dead
> air while we hike back with no medical or rescue personnel knowing we are
> in trouble. So , does anyone have a good amp. suggestion with experience
> ?Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KX3-Amp-tp7571696p7576020.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Raymond Sills

Re: KX3 Amp

That's what I'd do as well. Some personal locators will send an "I'm
OK" message, too to designated recipients. And, if you don't want to
buy a personal locator... you can rent them, which might be less
expensive, if it's a one-time trip.

73 de Ray
K2ULR
KX3 #211

On Jun 30, 2013, at 7:43 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

> I love amateur radio.
>
> However, if I was living 200 miles from the nearest real town, I'd
> invest in a good Personal Locator Beacon (or two) . The kind with a
> built-in GPS.
>
> Sure, it's not "communications" but it's a one-button "come get us,
> we're right here" and the Search and Rescue Satellites are quite good.
>
> I keep mine in the car.
>
> -- Lynn
>
> On 6/30/2013 4:42 AM, KF5TEU wrote:
>> Unfortunately , yes , I do need an amp. . We are going out over 200
>> mi. from
>> the nearest real town and if we need help then I would really love
>> to get
>> through vs. be falsely proud of my QST skills that gets me nothing
>> but dead
>> air while we hike back with no medical or rescue personnel knowing
>> we are
>> in trouble. So , does anyone have a good amp. suggestion with
>> experience
>> ?Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KX3-Amp-tp7571696p7576020.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: KX3 Amp

Mine was about $250 -- a lot less than an amplifier that isn't
guaranteed to get someone to send help.

On 6/30/2013 4:51 PM, Ray Sills wrote:

> That's what I'd do as well. Some personal locators will send an "I'm
> OK" message, too to designated recipients. And, if you don't want to
> buy a personal locator... you can rent them, which might be less
> expensive, if it's a one-time trip.
>
> 73 de Ray
> K2ULR
> KX3 #211
>
>
> On Jun 30, 2013, at 7:43 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>
>> I love amateur radio.
>>
>> However, if I was living 200 miles from the nearest real town, I'd
>> invest in a good Personal Locator Beacon (or two) . The kind with a
>> built-in GPS.
>>
>> Sure, it's not "communications" but it's a one-button "come get us,
>> we're right here" and the Search and Rescue Satellites are quite good.
>>
>> I keep mine in the car.
>>
>> -- Lynn
>>
>> On 6/30/2013 4:42 AM, KF5TEU wrote:
>>> Unfortunately , yes , I do need an amp. . We are going out over 200
>>> mi. from
>>> the nearest real town and if we need help then I would really love
>>> to get
>>> through vs. be falsely proud of my QST skills that gets me nothing
>>> but dead
>>> air while we hike back with no medical or rescue personnel knowing
>>> we are
>>> in trouble. So , does anyone have a good amp. suggestion with
>>> experience
>>> ?Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KX3-Amp-tp7571696p7576020.html
>>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
> ______________________________________________________________
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ny4g

Re: KX3 Amp

In reply to this post by Raymond Sills

Some HT's have GPS and with APRS one can send messages. I have used it on hikes so my wife can track me on the internet as I hike. The HT sends a beacon signal out and the movement can be tracked through APRS.fi Any Ham can get an APRS account. I have even used APRS on my iPhone for the same tracking capability. Remote from civilization though you would need an HT with APRS like the VX8R by Yaesu or a TinyTrack tracker. With the HT however, you can call for help and the reach can be substantial depending on elevation or having a nearby repeater. Having worked 45 states on Field Day just using a KX3 and a G0GSF dipole, I have no qualms with getting out and reaching people with a KX3 on HF. When the 2m module gets out - I have a complete package for all modes of remote operation.
Ariel NY4G

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 19:51:08 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Amp
>
> That's what I'd do as well. Some personal locators will send an "I'm
> OK" message, too to designated recipients. And, if you don't want to
> buy a personal locator... you can rent them, which might be less
> expensive, if it's a one-time trip.
>
> 73 de Ray
> K2ULR
> KX3 #211
>
>
> On Jun 30, 2013, at 7:43 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>
> > I love amateur radio.
> >
> > However, if I was living 200 miles from the nearest real town, I'd
> > invest in a good Personal Locator Beacon (or two) . The kind with a
> > built-in GPS.
> >
> > Sure, it's not "communications" but it's a one-button "come get us,
> > we're right here" and the Search and Rescue Satellites are quite good.
> >
> > I keep mine in the car.
> >
> > -- Lynn
> >
> > On 6/30/2013 4:42 AM, KF5TEU wrote:
> >> Unfortunately , yes , I do need an amp. . We are going out over 200
> >> mi. from
> >> the nearest real town and if we need help then I would really love
> >> to get
> >> through vs. be falsely proud of my QST skills that gets me nothing
> >> but dead
> >> air while we hike back with no medical or rescue personnel knowing
> >> we are
> >> in trouble. So , does anyone have a good amp. suggestion with
> >> experience
> >> ?Thanks in advance.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KX3-Amp-tp7571696p7576020.html
> >> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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