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KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

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Jim Brown-10

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

On 7/29/2012 12:20 PM, Igor Sokolov wrote:

> I had to build small circuit that makes use of inhibit signal in my
> K3 to extend rigid 8 ms built into K3 although it would be more
> logical to have programmable TX delay built into the transceiver.

Hi Igor,

First, I suspect we may have a language problem. The 8msec delay is only
a STARTING point, and is ADJUSTABLE from a menu. You can set it to be
much longer.

Second, in MOST SO2R applications,, relays controlling bandpass filters,
selecting antennas, selecting amps, are switched when the operator
CHANGES BANDS, not when he goes from TX to RX. Certainly special
lockout circuits of the sort you're talking about CAN require a bit more
delay and will require PTT. But I would bet a case of your favorite
beverage (the drink, not the antenna) that for every station doing
things like that there are at least 100 who are simply turning on and
off the TX that either runs barefoot of feeds a power amp that feeds
antennas that are switched when the operator changes bands.

If YOU want to use PTT to control your switching please do. But do not
insist that the other 99% of operators who don't use it. For them, VOX
works just fine.

73, Jim K9YC

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

Jim,

> If YOU want to use PTT to control your switching please do. But do not
> insist that the other 99% of operators who don't use it. For them, VOX
> works just fine.

VOX is a PITA in a great many environments - for a variety of reasons.
It just plain won't work in a multi-multi with other operators all
around. It won't work with loud amplifiers, with loud fans, A/C, etc.
PTT is far more convenient and reliable with computer generated DVK,
etc. It's not safe/reliable with children and/or pets in the house.

VOX may be fine for rag chewing in a quiet environment but give me PTT
from the computer and/or a big foot switch for reliability.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 7/30/2012 1:53 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 7/29/2012 12:20 PM, Igor Sokolov wrote:
>
>> I had to build small circuit that makes use of inhibit signal in my
>> K3 to extend rigid 8 ms built into K3 although it would be more
>> logical to have programmable TX delay built into the transceiver.
>
> Hi Igor,
>
> First, I suspect we may have a language problem. The 8msec delay is only
> a STARTING point, and is ADJUSTABLE from a menu. You can set it to be
> much longer.
>
> Second, in MOST SO2R applications,, relays controlling bandpass filters,
> selecting antennas, selecting amps, are switched when the operator
> CHANGES BANDS, not when he goes from TX to RX. Certainly special
> lockout circuits of the sort you're talking about CAN require a bit more
> delay and will require PTT. But I would bet a case of your favorite
> beverage (the drink, not the antenna) that for every station doing
> things like that there are at least 100 who are simply turning on and
> off the TX that either runs barefoot of feeds a power amp that feeds
> antennas that are switched when the operator changes bands.
>
> If YOU want to use PTT to control your switching please do. But do not
> insist that the other 99% of operators who don't use it. For them, VOX
> works just fine.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Igor Sokolov-2

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Hi Jim,
First, in my experience 8msec delay is THE ONLY point if we speak about TX
delay. Any setting above 8 msec makes CW choppy. This subject was discussed
here some time ago. It has been checked here on 4 different K3s and they are
all the same.

Second, I do not insist on anything. I have just expressed my wish to have
configurable TX delay in highly configurable K3. Having said that, I am
afraid your statistics is not applicable to the majority of SO2R stations
that I know and practically all the MS stations that I know. Even most of
the SO1R stations here prefer using PTT in the contests.
Actually I am really curious what percentage of contest stations use break
in regularly in the contests. That might be a good question for a poll in
"cq contest" reflector.

73, Igor UA9CDC

>> I had to build small circuit that makes use of inhibit signal in my
>> K3 to extend rigid 8 ms built into K3 although it would be more
>> logical to have programmable TX delay built into the transceiver.
>
> Hi Igor,
>
> First, I suspect we may have a language problem. The 8msec delay is only
> a STARTING point, and is ADJUSTABLE from a menu. You can set it to be
> much longer.
>
> Second, in MOST SO2R applications,, relays controlling bandpass filters,
> selecting antennas, selecting amps, are switched when the operator
> CHANGES BANDS, not when he goes from TX to RX. Certainly special
> lockout circuits of the sort you're talking about CAN require a bit more
> delay and will require PTT. But I would bet a case of your favorite
> beverage (the drink, not the antenna) that for every station doing
> things like that there are at least 100 who are simply turning on and
> off the TX that either runs barefoot of feeds a power amp that feeds
> antennas that are switched when the operator changes bands.
>
> If YOU want to use PTT to control your switching please do. But do not
> insist that the other 99% of operators who don't use it. For them, VOX
> works just fine.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim Brown-10

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

On 8/30/2012 9:01 AM, Igor Sokolov wrote:
> First, in my experience 8msec delay is THE ONLY point if we speak
> about TX delay. Any setting above 8 msec makes CW choppy.

That is certainly true with QSK and QRO. I like to run QRO as much as
the next guy, BUT many EU contesters work too fast for conditions much
of the time. Our path is over the polar region, so Arctic flutter is
quite common here to much of EU. When that's happening, I often have to
listen to a call for as along as a minute to figure out who it is! I'm
far more likely to let the other station continue CQing and call someone
else. (I can't usually run EU from my QTH in CA -- east coast stations
are much louder).

> This subject was discussed here some time ago. It has been checked
> here on 4 different K3s and they are all the same.

You are right -- it's the nature of the design.
>
> Second, I do not insist on anything. I have just expressed my wish to
> have configurable TX delay in highly configurable K3. Having said
> that, I am afraid your statistics is not applicable to the majority of
> SO2R stations that I know and practically all the MS stations that I
> know. Even most of the SO1R stations here prefer using PTT in the
> contests.

Please go back and look at the SUBJECT line in this thread. It is about
DIGITAL MODES. :) We're talking RTTY, PSK, FSK, JT65, Olivia, etc. The
only one of those that is a contesting mode is RTTY. I use VOX for all
of them, with no issues, because I don't have any gear with slow relays.

> Actually I am really curious what percentage of contest stations use
> break in regularly in the contests. That might be a good question for
> a poll in "cq contest" reflector.

I'm an OT, primarily a CW op since 1955, and until about five years ago
I worked almost entirely full QSK. But I got tired of replacing the
vacuum relays in my Titans every few years, so since five years I do all
my contesting "semi-breakin" using the Titans at full legal power, and
my casual operating with my KPA500 full QSK.

73, Jim K9YC

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Jim Brown-10

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

On 7/30/2012 7:04 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> VOX is a PITA in a great many environments - for a variety of reasons.
> It just plain won't work in a multi-multi with other operators all
> around.

Joe,

Please look again at the SUBJECT LINE in this thread. It is about
DIGITAL MODES.

I agree with your observations about the limitations of VOX on SSB, but
except for the rare occasions when I'm part of a multi-op on SSB,I don't
have those issues, so I use VOX on SSB too. But that's a personal
preference based on my limitations -- thanks to poor physical
coordination, I've never found a foot switch that I could live with.

73, Jim K9YC
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Igor Sokolov-2

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

> Please go back and look at the SUBJECT line in this thread. It is about
> DIGITAL MODES. :) We're talking RTTY, PSK, FSK, JT65, Olivia, etc. The
> only one of those that is a contesting mode is RTTY. I use VOX for all
> of them, with no issues, because I don't have any gear with slow relays.

> 73, Jim K9YC

Jim, you are right,
For digi modes 8 msec delay in K3 is not an issue. Most of the digi soft
generates signal with programmable PTT delay that can be set to any length.
Still interesting what is the percentage of those using VOX instead of PTT.
Just curious.
So far, if we count you, me and Joe the score is 66% in favour of PTT :)

73, Igor UA9CDC

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Jim,

> Please look again at the SUBJECT LINE in this thread. It is about
> DIGITAL MODES.

Even in DIGITAL MODE I would not trust anything *except* hardware PTT
(e.g. RTS to a transistor/optical isolator switch) preferably with an
external hardware time-out timer - particularly with computer based
operation. I've had too many bad experiences with hanging and/or
mistimed software (command) PTT and VOX to use anything except hardware
based PTT.

> But that's a personal preference based on my limitations -- thanks to
> poor physical coordination, I've never found a foot switch that I
> could live with.

On the other hand, prior to the K3 I had never found a VOX I could live
with. I'm still so uncomfortable with VOX that I keep several of my
25+ year old old foot switches handy.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 7/30/2012 12:57 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 7/30/2012 7:04 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>> VOX is a PITA in a great many environments - for a variety of reasons.
>> It just plain won't work in a multi-multi with other operators all
>> around.
>
> Joe,
>
> Please look again at the SUBJECT LINE in this thread. It is about
> DIGITAL MODES.
>
> I agree with your observations about the limitations of VOX on SSB, but
> except for the rare occasions when I'm part of a multi-op on SSB,I don't
> have those issues, so I use VOX on SSB too. But that's a personal
> preference based on my limitations -- thanks to poor physical
> coordination, I've never found a foot switch that I could live with.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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>

Bill Frantz

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

In reply to this post by Igor Sokolov-2

I use VOX with computer digital modes (primarily PSK). I have
thought of hooking up PTT, but the only problem I have with VOX
is remembering to turn it off when I switch to SSB or FM. With
no serious problems with VOX, implementing PTT barely reaches
the bottom of my long list of projects.

Cheers - Bill, AE6JV

On 8/31/12 at 11:04, [hidden email] (Igor Sokolov) wrote:

>Still interesting what is the percentage of those using VOX
>instead of PTT. Just curious.

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Jim Brown-10

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

In reply to this post by Igor Sokolov-2

On 8/30/2012 11:04 AM, Igor Sokolov wrote:
> Still interesting what is the percentage of those using VOX instead of
> PTT. Just curious.
> So far, if we count you, me and Joe the score is 66% in favour of PTT :)

The important thing is that each operator can make his/her own choice
based on individual needs and preferences. The K3 and KX3 have quite a
bit of flexibility in that regard, and Lance showed a neat way of doing
the computer interface that was both inexpensive and compact.

73, Jim K9YC
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Brandon Hansen [KG6YPI]

Test

In reply to this post by Igor Sokolov-2

Test
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