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KX3 Rechargeable Batteries

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KX3 Rechargeable Batteries

You must measure the batteries under load. The no-load voltage is almost meaningless.
You must use NiMH batteries in the KX3 if you are using the internal charger. The best way to test them is to use an external battery charger built for RC that accomodates NiMH chemistry, and can both charge and discharge multiple cycles, and has a top-off low current cycle built in. This will balance the pack. Take the batts out of the kx3, put them in an empty battery holder, and run them through three charge/discharge cycles. The charger will show their true capacity. Running several cycles will build up their capacity a bit. I use only Eneloops. Regular NiMH batts can lose all their capacity in a few days, and if you let them sit too long, they are ruined. Eneloops can hold 80% of their capacity for many months.
All batteries have a finite life.
I am sure others will disagree. This is my (considerable) experience with NiMH. YMMV.
73 Eric WD6DBM

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: KX3 Rechargeable Batteries

Something I learned from one of our "tech reps" regarding rechargeable
batteries and charge cycles.    I have successfully applied his advice
for a multitude of and different types of my rechargeable batteries.

If you use a battery and then recharge it, that is one charge cycle.
Likewise if you should use only 10% of the battery capacity and recharge
it, that is also one charge cycle. And in the same vein, if you use
90% of battery capacity and then recharge it, that is also one recharge
cycle.

The point, every time you use the battery, regardless of the amount of
discharge, and recharge it, that is one charge cycle. In other words,
don't recharge until necessary. And never leave a battery in the
discharged state. Always charge to full capacity.   Short charging
cycles, because one perhaps is in a hurry and can't wait, only subtracts
from the total number of charge cycles available.    And there are only
so many charge cycles with each type of battery.   So every time you use
and recharge a battery, click off one charge cycle.

I've practiced this with several different types of batteries and find
that my batteries last much longer and need less frequent replacement.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 12/28/2018 9:47 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:

> Eneloop Pro (labeled Eneloop XX for a bit) are rated for 500 charge cycles. Regular Eneloop batteries are rated for 2100 charge cycles but have lower capacity. Choose the one you prefer. I like the higher capacity batteries.
>
> The Wikipedia page on Eneloop has a chart that clears this up to some degree.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eneloop
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>

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K9MA

Re: KX3 Rechargeable Batteries

I think Bob is mainly referring to NiMH batteries. I am not sure about
the partial discharges, and whether each one counts as a whole cycle.
That is certainly NOT true of lead-acid and Li-Ion batteries, which will
survive many more partial discharges than deep ones. Li-Ion batteries
should not be stored for long periods fully charged, but at 50-70
percent. Fortunately, their self-discharge rate is so low that you would
have to store them for years before you would have to worry about them
becoming completely discharged, which is bad for all types.

73,
Scott K9MA

On 12/28/2018 10:41, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> Something I learned from one of our "tech reps" regarding rechargeable
> batteries and charge cycles.    I have successfully applied his advice
> for a multitude of and different types of my rechargeable batteries.
>
> If you use a battery and then recharge it, that is one charge cycle.
> Likewise if you should use only 10% of the battery capacity and
> recharge it, that is also one charge cycle. And in the same vein,
> if you use 90% of battery capacity and then recharge it, that is also
> one recharge cycle.
>
> The point, every time you use the battery, regardless of the amount of
> discharge, and recharge it, that is one charge cycle. In other words,
> don't recharge until necessary. And never leave a battery in the
> discharged state. Always charge to full capacity.   Short charging
> cycles, because one perhaps is in a hurry and can't wait, only
> subtracts from the total number of charge cycles available.    And
> there are only so many charge cycles with each type of battery.   So
> every time you use and recharge a battery, click off one charge cycle.
>
> I've practiced this with several different types of batteries and find
> that my batteries last much longer and need less frequent replacement.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 12/28/2018 9:47 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>> Eneloop Pro (labeled Eneloop XX for a bit) are rated for 500 charge
>> cycles. Regular Eneloop batteries are rated for 2100 charge cycles
>> but have lower capacity. Choose the one you prefer. I like the higher
>> capacity batteries.
>>
>> The Wikipedia page on Eneloop has a chart that clears this up to some
>> degree.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eneloop
>>
>> wunder
>> K6WRU
>> Walter Underwood
>> CM87wj
>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--
Scott K9MA

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Jim Brown-10

Re: KX3 Rechargeable Batteries

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Lots of excellent advice in this post.

73, Jim K9YC

On 12/28/2018 8:41 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> Something I learned from one of our "tech reps" regarding rechargeable
> batteries and charge cycles.

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David Olean

Re: KX3 Rechargeable Batteries

In reply to this post by K9MA

I had a pair of huge lead acid AGM batteries die on me after a bit over
six years of very light use in a solar panel and battery system.
Consulting the factory, they stressed that the batteries were getting
cycled each day that the Sun came out and the charger started charging
the batteries. I used the batteries sparingly at my remote ham shack,
discharging about 10 to 12 % typically on the days that I used them.
Only once did I discharge them to almost 75% of full. I should have
used them more so I would not feel so cheated having them die so
quickly. My solution is to replace them with LiFePO4 batteries and
disconnect them from the solar charger unless I need the batteries for a
specific event. They can go a few months with no charging. I can keep
the charge cycles at a much lower rate with LiFePO4. You can't do that
with lead acid, or at least not as well.

Dave K1WHS

On 12/28/2018 4:56 PM, K9MA wrote:

> I think Bob is mainly referring to NiMH batteries. I am not sure about
> the partial discharges, and whether each one counts as a whole cycle.
> That is certainly NOT true of lead-acid and Li-Ion batteries, which
> will survive many more partial discharges than deep ones. Li-Ion
> batteries should not be stored for long periods fully charged, but at
> 50-70 percent. Fortunately, their self-discharge rate is so low that
> you would have to store them for years before you would have to worry
> about them becoming completely discharged, which is bad for all types.
>
> 73,
> Scott K9MA
>
> On 12/28/2018 10:41, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> Something I learned from one of our "tech reps" regarding
>> rechargeable batteries and charge cycles.    I have successfully
>> applied his advice for a multitude of and different types of my
>> rechargeable batteries.
>>
>> If you use a battery and then recharge it, that is one charge
>> cycle.   Likewise if you should use only 10% of the battery capacity
>> and recharge it, that is also one charge cycle. And in the same
>> vein, if you use 90% of battery capacity and then recharge it, that
>> is also one recharge cycle.
>>
>> The point, every time you use the battery, regardless of the amount
>> of discharge, and recharge it, that is one charge cycle. In other
>> words, don't recharge until necessary. And never leave a battery in
>> the discharged state. Always charge to full capacity.   Short
>> charging cycles, because one perhaps is in a hurry and can't wait,
>> only subtracts from the total number of charge cycles available.
>> And there are only so many charge cycles with each type of battery.
>> So every time you use and recharge a battery, click off one charge
>> cycle.
>>
>> I've practiced this with several different types of batteries and
>> find that my batteries last much longer and need less frequent
>> replacement.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>> On 12/28/2018 9:47 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>>> Eneloop Pro (labeled Eneloop XX for a bit) are rated for 500 charge
>>> cycles. Regular Eneloop batteries are rated for 2100 charge cycles
>>> but have lower capacity. Choose the one you prefer. I like the
>>> higher capacity batteries.
>>>
>>> The Wikipedia page on Eneloop has a chart that clears this up to
>>> some degree.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eneloop
>>>
>>> wunder
>>> K6WRU
>>> Walter Underwood
>>> CM87wj
>>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

Phil Kane-2

Re: KX3 Rechargeable Batteries

On 12/28/2018 8:45 PM, David Olean wrote:

> I had a pair of huge lead acid AGM batteries die on me after a bit over
> six years of very light use in a solar panel and battery system.

Six years on a pair of big AGMs? You are lucky - I usually get about
4-5 years on a pair in float service. Chalk that up to insurance
against power outages which are very rare here, but then again, one does
not insure against events that are not rare.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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