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[KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

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Bruce Beford-3

[KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

Wayne had posted this on the KX3 Yahoo group 2 days ago:

"You'll be able to configure either the left-side KEY jack or the KXPD3
as paddle normal, paddle reverse, or hand-key. Auto-detect of a hand
key in parallel with a paddle via two diodes is possible but not yet
implemented."

73,
Bruce, N1RX
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Thomas Horsten

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

On 10 January 2012 18:25, Bruce Beford <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Wayne had posted this on the KX3 Yahoo group 2 days ago:
>
> "You'll be able to configure either the left-side KEY jack or the KXPD3
> as paddle normal, paddle reverse, or hand-key. Auto-detect of a hand
> key in parallel with a paddle via two diodes is possible but not yet
> implemented."
>

Thanks Bruce, but not quite what I'm looking for, I want to use the
"internal" paddle as a side swiper, so either contact on the paddle works
as a straight key (similar to wiring up the paddle as a side swiper but
doing it in software rather than physically)!

73, Thomas
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Peter Wollan-2

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

The Elecraft keyers all treat one side of the paddle (the dit side, I
think) as a straight key when the key is plugged in and the option is
set to "hand". But it sounds like you want one paddle to generate
dits when held down, and the other paddle to generate dahs,
repeatedly. That's what I think of as a side-swiper -- pushing the
single paddle one way generates dits, the other way produces dahs. If
that's what you mean, I wouldn't call that a "straight key".

Peter W0LLN

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Thomas Horsten <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 10 January 2012 18:25, Bruce Beford <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Wayne had posted this on the KX3 Yahoo group 2 days ago:
>>
>> "You'll be able to configure either the left-side KEY jack or the KXPD3
>> as paddle normal, paddle reverse, or hand-key. Auto-detect of a hand
>> key in parallel with a paddle via two diodes is possible but not yet
>> implemented."
>>
>
> Thanks Bruce, but not quite what I'm looking for, I want to use the
> "internal" paddle as a side swiper, so either contact on the paddle works
> as a straight key (similar to wiring up the paddle as a side swiper but
> doing it in software rather than physically)!
>
> 73, Thomas
> ______________________________________________________________
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Thomas Horsten

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

On 10 January 2012 19:55, Peter Wollan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The Elecraft keyers all treat one side of the paddle (the dit side, I
> think) as a straight key when the key is plugged in and the option is
> set to "hand". But it sounds like you want one paddle to generate
> dits when held down, and the other paddle to generate dahs,
> repeatedly. That's what I think of as a side-swiper -- pushing the
> single paddle one way generates dits, the other way produces dahs. If
> that's what you mean, I wouldn't call that a "straight key".
>
>
That's not what I mean - what I'd like is for both sides to operate like a
straight key - no electronic keying involved. That's how a side swiper
operates, both of the side contacts are connected together. No automatic
dits or dahs are generated at all, both sides are simply keying the
transmitter on and off.

73, Thomas
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Thomas Horsten

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfLrgYHIpjo

On 10 January 2012 19:58, Thomas Horsten <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 10 January 2012 19:55, Peter Wollan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> The Elecraft keyers all treat one side of the paddle (the dit side, I
>> think) as a straight key when the key is plugged in and the option is
>> set to "hand". But it sounds like you want one paddle to generate
>> dits when held down, and the other paddle to generate dahs,
>> repeatedly. That's what I think of as a side-swiper -- pushing the
>> single paddle one way generates dits, the other way produces dahs. If
>> that's what you mean, I wouldn't call that a "straight key".
>>
>>
> That's not what I mean - what I'd like is for both sides to operate like a
> straight key - no electronic keying involved. That's how a side swiper
> operates, both of the side contacts are connected together. No automatic
> dits or dahs are generated at all, both sides are simply keying the
> transmitter on and off.
>
> 73, Thomas
>
>

Peter Wollan-2

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

Thanks for the education. Wow, one more thing I can't imagine ever
learning how to do.

How about soldering up an adapter that connects tip and ring together
in a stereo plug? Would that do what is wanted, when the keyer is set
to "hand"?

Peter W0LLN

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Thomas Horsten <[hidden email]> wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfLrgYHIpjo
>
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Thomas Horsten

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

Hi Peter,

Yes what you're suggesting would probably do the trick, but the reason for
my request is exactly to avoid having to fiddle with adapters and
unplugging the paddle (and inserting an extra spacer between the rig and
the paddle) when switching modes, instead just doing it from the menu. It's
a very simple thing to do in software, and much more complicated to do in
hardware (and even if I made such an adapter I'd still have to switch the
rig to hand key mode) - so a menu option to treat either tip or rig as a
hand key would be the optimal solution!

73, Thomas

On 10 January 2012 20:38, Peter Wollan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks for the education. Wow, one more thing I can't imagine ever
> learning how to do.
>
> How about soldering up an adapter that connects tip and ring together
> in a stereo plug? Would that do what is wanted, when the keyer is set
> to "hand"?
>
> Peter W0LLN
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Thomas Horsten <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfLrgYHIpjo
> >
>

Bruce Beford-2

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

In reply to this post by Thomas Horsten

Understood, Thomas.
I just thought I would post what Wayne had already stated on the other list. perhaps as more people indicate interest in this type of configuration, a firmware change will add that option.
73,
Bruce, N1RX

________________________________________
From: Thomas Horsten [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 2:37 PM
To: Bruce Beford
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

On 10 January 2012 18:25, Bruce Beford <[hidden email]> wrote:
Wayne had posted this on the KX3 Yahoo group 2 days ago:

"You'll be able to configure either the left-side KEY jack or the KXPD3
as paddle normal, paddle reverse, or hand-key. Auto-detect of a hand
key in parallel with a paddle via two diodes is possible but not yet
implemented."

Thanks Bruce, but not quite what I'm looking for, I want to use the "internal" paddle as a side swiper, so either contact on the paddle works as a straight key (similar to wiring up the paddle as a side swiper but doing it in software rather than physically)!

73, Thomas

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k6dgw

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

On 1/10/2012 1:31 PM, Bruce Beford wrote:
> Understood, Thomas. I just thought I would post what Wayne had
> already stated on the other list. perhaps as more people indicate
> interest in this type of configuration, a firmware change will add
> that option. 73, Bruce, N1RX

We seem to have advanced [?] to the point where every perceived problem,
need, want, or nice-to-have can be solved only by a firmware change at
Elecraft, preferably by Wayne.

All the sideswipers I've ever seen in 58 years as a ham and a couple
more as a really interested little kid, aside from some being real works
of art, had the two stationary contacts tied together. They went to the
"hot" side of the key plug, the base went to the sleeve. Plug it into
your Heath AT-1, Viking II, or whatever, and send away. If you've never
seen a real one, think of two J-38 hand keys mounted base-to-base on
edge. So:

1. Procure a plug appropriate to your rig. For a K3, a 2 ckt [tip,
ring, sleeve] 1/4" phone plug will work really good and probably last a
long time.

2. Carefully connect the two stationary contacts on the key together
[if they are not already connected] and connect that to one wire in a
1-pr [2-wire] cable.

3. Connect the other wire to the base contact on the key.

4. On the other end of the cable, connect the first wire to the tip
contact of the plug. Connect the second wire to the sleeve contact.
Don't connect anything to the ring contact.

5. Now, say "Oh crap," undo what you did in step 4 and feed the plug
cover onto the wire, back of cover first.

6. Redo Step 4, and tighten the plug cover.

7. Insert the plug into the KEY jack on the back of the K3.

8. Put the K3 in CW on the band of choice.

9. Call CQ.

Zero lines of code and Wayne can go back to all the re-engineering
requests for the KX3.

If you have a K2 or a KX1, the appropriate plug is a 2-ckt [tip, ring,
sleeve] mini-stereo. There are several sizes, take your radio to the
store and see what fits. You have to go into the menu and select "Hnd".
I don't have a K1, but I'll bet money it's the same.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
- www.cqp.org

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Thomas Horsten

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

On 10 January 2012 23:36, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Zero lines of code and Wayne can go back to all the re-engineering
> requests for the KX3.
>
> If you have a K2 or a KX1, the appropriate plug is a 2-ckt [tip, ring,
> sleeve] mini-stereo. There are several sizes, take your radio to the
> store and see what fits. You have to go into the menu and select "Hnd".
> I don't have a K1, but I'll bet money it's the same.
>

Fred, I think you're missing the point, the idea is to use the KX3 with the
plug-in paddle as a sideswiper, the whole point of that "snap-in" paddle is
to have a self contained unit without cables and adapters. Adding an extra
mode to treat either tip or ring of the paddle connector as a straight key
is not a huge software problem, and would make for a very nice feature for
portable operations at pretty low cost.

I wish the KX3 firmware was open source, but since it's not I'm asking here
in the hope that the feature will be added at some point even though,
admittedly, it's probably a minority request. I know Elecraft have added
more esoteric things in the past so why not hope, I know a lot of active
SKCC members are also Elecraft fans, with good reason (since Elecraft makes
by far the best CW rigs on the market).

73, Thomas M0TRN
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

Administrator

We've also exceeded the single topic limit for this topic. Let's end
this thread at this time.

At this point, we are not going to have time to add something like this
any time soon. We are swamped in other areas. :-)

Please refrain fro arguing pro-con on new features past a few posts.
Please self moderate after that point in the interest of keeping list
volume and noise level reasonable for the other readers.

73,

Eric
List moderator
---
www.elecraft.com

On 1/10/2012 3:42 PM, Thomas Horsten wrote:
> Fred, I think you're missing the point, the idea is to use the KX3
> with the plug-in paddle as a sideswiper, the whole point of that
> "snap-in" paddle is to have a self contained unit without cables and
> adapters.
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Buddy Brannan

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

In reply to this post by Bruce Beford-2

Hey Ron,

I don't know if I'd like a bug mode for an iambic paddle. MFJ has such a thing built into at least some of their keyer models, and it feels weird to me.

That said, I absolutely love using a bug. I just got, about a month ago, an Electro bug, circa 1930. Got it off eBay, and it's in beautiful shape and sends very nice code. All the extra dits are all mine, but after several weeks of use, I find fewer and fewer of those, and think I finally have the thing adjusted to comfortable use that I can make sound pretty decent.

I also have a sideswiper, and yes, it really is harder than it sounds to get good code out of it. I definitely send faster with a standard straight key than with a sideswiper. No question. It's definitely a skill that will take some time to master, at least it has been for me. Lots of fun with the bug, though.

Now maybe us oddballs can get a single lever paddle for the KX3? Eh? Heck, this Electro bug weighs probably three KX3's! Not great for portable ops, and that's a fact.
--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY

On Jan 10, 2012, at 6:11 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Way back when the K2 was still a new product, I asked for a "bug mode" in which the dit part of the keyer worked normally (but without the dit memory) and the dash side required the operator to press the paddle for each dash, just as one does on a bug.
>
> I use a bug most of the time, and if I switch to the keyer for more than a few minutes, it really interferes with my spacing on dashes when I return to the bug. So I wanted a mode that worked just like a bug.
>
> In spite of frequent discussions, the idea never got any traction. That's what happens to us "oddballs" who operate differently from the mainstream. It's just not worth the time and money to develop the code for us.
>
> So, when necessary, I use the keyer and simply tap the dash paddle for each dash as if it was a bug. The only irritation doing that is that I can't use the customary long dash for zero. If I'm not careful I send two dashes on the keyer, Hi!
>
> Like Peter I don't think I'll tackle a sideswiper. A straight key and bug are enough for me. I got very comfortable with an iambic keyer but quit because I enjoyed the challenge of using a bug properly even more. I bet the sideswiper gang feel the same way about their keys.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
>
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David Gilbert

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

In reply to this post by Thomas Horsten

Come again? How is it more difficult to use the menu to change the K3
to hand key mode than it is to use the menu to change the K3 to
sideswiper mode?? I don't get it.

As far as the required hardware being complicated, a short clip lead
jumper across the dit/dah terminals of your paddle would probably do the
job just fine. Worst case (depending upon the wiring in the K3) the
jumper might need a series diode.

Everything is simple to do in software when you don't have to spend the
time do it or worry about unintended side effects.

Dave AB7E

On 1/10/2012 1:55 PM, Thomas Horsten wrote:

> Hi Peter,
>
> Yes what you're suggesting would probably do the trick, but the reason for
> my request is exactly to avoid having to fiddle with adapters and
> unplugging the paddle (and inserting an extra spacer between the rig and
> the paddle) when switching modes, instead just doing it from the menu. It's
> a very simple thing to do in software, and much more complicated to do in
> hardware (and even if I made such an adapter I'd still have to switch the
> rig to hand key mode) - so a menu option to treat either tip or rig as a
> hand key would be the optimal solution!
>
> 73, Thomas
>
> On 10 January 2012 20:38, Peter Wollan<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the education. Wow, one more thing I can't imagine ever
>> learning how to do.
>>
>> How about soldering up an adapter that connects tip and ring together
>> in a stereo plug? Would that do what is wanted, when the keyer is set
>> to "hand"?
>>
>> Peter W0LLN
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Thomas Horsten<[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfLrgYHIpjo
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Mike Markowski-2

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper skill

In reply to this post by Buddy Brannan

Buddy,

About taking time to master a sideswiper, same with me. My son,
Jonathan kb3rli (15), makes using one look easy. So I tried recently
and, well, I won't inflict that on anyone on the air just yet! It's the
first key where I can copy much faster than I can send.

73,
Mike ab3ap

On 01/10/2012 08:42 PM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
> [...]
> I also have a sideswiper, and yes, it really is harder than it sounds
> to get good code out of it. I definitely send faster with a standard
> straight key than with a sideswiper. No question. It's definitely a
> skill that will take some time to master, at least it has been for
> me. [...]
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KXBill

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

In reply to this post by David Gilbert

Why mess around with the menu settings?...Just plug the manual key into the Key jack in back of the K3 and your set to go.
Carry-on
Bill-w7kxb
.

> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 19:17:49 -0700
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)
>
>
> Come again? How is it more difficult to use the menu to change the K3
> to hand key mode than it is to use the menu to change the K3 to
> sideswiper mode?? I don't get it.
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

The KX3 paddles do not lend themselves to sideswiper action as I have
learned about it. The sideswiper as I know it has the paddles about 2
inches above the desk and is operated by rolling the wrist and side of
the hand on the table. The KX3 paddles are nice for "squeeze" keying,
and are located close to the surface of the desk - so IMHO, they are
useless for sideswiper motions.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/11/2012 1:38 AM, Bill Harris wrote:

> Why mess around with the menu settings?...Just plug the manual key into the Key jack in back of the K3 and your set to go.
> Carry-on
> Bill-w7kxb
> .
>
>> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 19:17:49 -0700
>> From: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)
>>
>>
>> Come again? How is it more difficult to use the menu to change the K3
>> to hand key mode than it is to use the menu to change the K3 to
>> sideswiper mode?? I don't get it.
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

Pete Smith N4ZR

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)

At risk of sounding old... - the original meaning of "side-swiper" is a
*manual* key that sends *manual* dots and dashes through side-to-side
rather than vertical motion. The two common side-to-side *electronic*
keyer options are one and two-lever. While a two-lever paddle may not
be ideal for operators used to a single-lever action (like me), they
certainly can be used. I presume that the KX3 paddle is of the
two-lever class.

If the original question-asker wanted to use a manual side-swiper with a
K3, then I think the KEY jack answer is the right one.

73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 1/11/2012 8:28 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> The KX3 paddles do not lend themselves to sideswiper action as I have
> learned about it. The sideswiper as I know it has the paddles about 2
> inches above the desk and is operated by rolling the wrist and side of
> the hand on the table. The KX3 paddles are nice for "squeeze" keying,
> and are located close to the surface of the desk - so IMHO, they are
> useless for sideswiper motions.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 1/11/2012 1:38 AM, Bill Harris wrote:
>> Why mess around with the menu settings?...Just plug the manual key into the Key jack in back of the K3 and your set to go.
>> Carry-on
>> Bill-w7kxb
>> .
>>
>>> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 19:17:49 -0700
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3)
>>>
>>>
>>> Come again? How is it more difficult to use the menu to change the K3
>>> to hand key mode than it is to use the menu to change the K3 to
>>> sideswiper mode?? I don't get it.
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: [KX3] Sideswiper mode for internal keyer (also K3) [Thread closed]

Administrator

Folks, as per my request yesterday, this thread is now officially closed due to the very high number of posts. Please take further discussion off list.

73,
Eric
List Moderator

www.elecraft.com
_..._

On Jan 11, 2012, at 6:16 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR <[hidden email]> wrote:

> At risk of sounding old... - the original meaning of "side-swiper" is a
> *manual* key that sends *manual* dots and dashes through side-to-side
> rather than vertical motion. The two common side-to-side *electronic*
> keyer options are one and two-lever. While a two-lever paddle may not
> be ideal for operators used to a single-lever action (like me), they
> certainly can be used. I presume that the KX3 paddle is of the
> two-lever class.
>
> If the original question-asker wanted to use a manual side-swiper with a
> K3, then I think the KEY jack answer is the right one.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR