Knobs
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I've been reading the posts about knobs for several months, and I was trying to resist the temptation to voice my objection to the knobs on my K3 (#3020). After all, I decided on the K3 because of it's advertised and acclaimed performance, not the cosmetics or knobs.
The situation though, reminds me of the line in the original Mash movie (adapted for K3 owners): "Just because we're K3 owners, doesn't mean we're barbarians". Translated: we should be able to own one of the best radios ever made AND have knobs that both look good and work properly. No, I wouldn't spend $200, but I would spend enough to make a substantial improvement. Actually, some of the alternatives can also be very expensive. For example, I've considered buying a Pro III just to impress visitors to the shack (beautiful display and nice knobs). Of course when they would leave, I would turn off the Pro III, and turn on the K3. Prior to reading any of the complaints, when I was assembling the K3 and came upon the "nested knobs", I couldn't believe that they didn't have brass inserts. I thought, "they sure must have come a long way in injection molded plastics to be able to make nested knobs with the necessary dimension controls to assure proper operation". I was also surprised to see that the shift-width-speed-cmp knobs were a push-on design, and they looked like they were too short for the length of the shafts. I tried to keep an open mind, figuring that these guys must know what they are doing--they've produced a radio that some very experienced hams are raving about. Well, after assembly was complete..... 1) The nested knobs would not operate unless they were "un-nested", due to concentricity problems. Brass inserts would solve the problem, because the brass is drilled after assembly of the knob, assuring concentricity. 2) The shift-width-speed-cmp knobs still don't look right to me. Also, I had a problem with them falling off. Elecraft rushed me a new set of knobs, but the problem continued. I finally but a small dab of contact cement on each knob, to keep them from falling off. I would prefer a knob with a brass insert and a set screw, as opposed to using glue. Group Dynamics at the Radio Factories? If an engineer at one of the major brand radio companies submitted a design with theses knobs, he would be beaten into submission at one of the many stages of design review. While a smaller company like Elecraft can be very agile, and can respond quickly to customer needs there can also be a disadvantage when a key man is invested in a marginal design concept. Junior engineers don't make eye contact, or stare off in a different direction, maybe whistling. You may hear comments like, "If you know what's good for you, don't say anything to the old man about those knobs."--just kidding, Wayne. The Missing Link? In a few hundred years when archeologists are examining the remains of old radios, one of the pressing questions will be: Were software defined radios developed because we lost the ability to make knobs, or did we loose the ability to make knobs because of software defined radios? We wouldn't want the K3 to be known as the missing link, would we? Respectfully submitted, Dan - W4TQ (ham for 50 years!) ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Dan,
I just finished assembling my new K3 #3281 and had the same issue with the concentric knobs. They wobbled badly enough that they could not be nested together and didn't feel right to me. I solved the problem by making a bushing for the knobs by wrapping a single layer of thin packing tape, the cheap kind that Office Depot sells, around the shafts. More than one layer was too much thickness. Now the knobs turn without wobbling and are nested together as they should be. I wrote Wayne about this, and he passed it on to one of his engineers, but have not heard back from him. I said it would be nice if the knobs had metal inserts. Otherwise, I am very pleased with the fit and finish of the K3. I did not have any issues with the smaller knobs. In fact, they were a tight fit. 73, Charlie, K4ZRJ (a ham since 1958)..... Dan wrote: > I've been reading the posts about knobs for several months, and I was trying to resist the temptation to voice my objection to the knobs on my K3 (#3020). After all, I decided on the K3 because of it's advertised and acclaimed performance, not the cosmetics or knobs. > > The situation though, reminds me of the line in the original Mash movie (adapted for K3 owners): "Just because we're K3 owners, doesn't mean we're barbarians". Translated: we should be able to own one of the best radios ever made AND have knobs that both look good and work properly. No, I wouldn't spend $200, but I would spend enough to make a substantial improvement. Actually, some of the alternatives can also be very expensive. For example, I've considered buying a Pro III just to impress visitors to the shack (beautiful display and nice knobs). Of course when they would leave, I would turn off the Pro III, and turn on the K3. > > Prior to reading any of the complaints, when I was assembling the K3 and came upon the "nested knobs", I couldn't believe that they didn't have brass inserts. I thought, "they sure must have come a long way in injection molded plastics to be able to make nested knobs with the necessary dimension controls to assure proper operation". I was also surprised to see that the shift-width-speed-cmp knobs were a push-on design, and they looked like they were too short for the length of the shafts. > > I tried to keep an open mind, figuring that these guys must know what they are doing--they've produced a radio that some very experienced hams are raving about. > > Well, after assembly was complete..... > > 1) The nested knobs would not operate unless they were "un-nested", due to concentricity problems. Brass inserts would solve the problem, because the brass is drilled after assembly of the knob, assuring concentricity. > > 2) The shift-width-speed-cmp knobs still don't look right to me. Also, I had a problem with them falling off. Elecraft rushed me a new set of knobs, but the problem continued. I finally but a small dab of contact cement on each knob, to keep them from falling off. I would prefer a knob with a brass insert and a set screw, as opposed to using glue. > > Group Dynamics at the Radio Factories? > If an engineer at one of the major brand radio companies submitted a design with theses knobs, he would be beaten into submission at one of the many stages of design review. While a smaller company like Elecraft can be very agile, and can respond quickly to customer needs there can also be a disadvantage when a key man is invested in a marginal design concept. Junior engineers don't make eye contact, or stare off in a different direction, maybe whistling. You may hear comments like, "If you know what's good for you, don't say anything to the old man about those knobs."--just kidding, Wayne. > > The Missing Link? > In a few hundred years when archeologists are examining the remains of old radios, one of the pressing questions will be: > Were software defined radios developed because we lost the ability to make knobs, or did we loose the ability to make knobs because of software defined radios? We wouldn't want the K3 to be known as the missing link, would we? > > Respectfully submitted, > Dan - W4TQ (ham for 50 years!) > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Dan in Florida
I have K3 #1029. The nested knobs are perfectly concentric to my eye.
The Shift/Width knobs don't fall off and are not too short. None have cracked in one year of almost daily service. Perhaps there have been some incompatible production variations along the way. I don't doubt you are having a problem but have to disagree with your comments about design. The original design seems perfectly adequate if #1029 is any indication. 73, Drew AF2Z On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:18:38 -0400, Dan - W4TQ (ham for 50 years!) wrote: > >Group Dynamics at the Radio Factories? >If an engineer at one of the major brand radio companies submitted a design with theses knobs, he would be beaten into submission at one of the many stages of design review. While a smaller company like Elecraft can be very agile, and can respond quickly to customer needs there can also be a disadvantage when a key man is invested in a marginal design concept. Junior engineers don't make eye contact, or stare off in a different direction, maybe whistling. You may hear comments like, "If you know what's good for you, don't say anything to the old man about those knobs."--just kidding, Wayne. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Hi Drew,
Let's differentiate between an engineering concept and a manufacturing design. The engineering concept of these knobs is certainly reasonable. For example, when nested knobs nest properly, that's just fine.--they look good and work as planned. Great concept! A design that is suitable for manufacturing is quite a different thing, however. Obviously, the goal is for the knobs to work properly not just on your K3, but on ALL other K3's as well. The design dimension tolerances must be specified in view of the manufacturing precision which is available to implement the design concept. Some of us think that a different design concept could be mass produced with more precision so that all of the knobs work properly on all of the K3's. I'm sure there are several who will be glad to hear that this is my last comment on knobs--honest. 73, Dan - W4TQ ps: The superb fit of the K3 chassis/enclosure parts demonstrates that there is someone at Elecraft who thoroughly understands manufacturing design tolerances. Congratulations on a great job in that area of the mechanical design. ................................................................................................................................................ I have K3 #1029. The nested knobs are perfectly concentric to my eye. The Shift/Width knobs don't fall off and are not too short. None have cracked in one year of almost daily service. Perhaps there have been some incompatible production variations along the way. I don't doubt you are having a problem but have to disagree with your comments about design. The original design seems perfectly adequate if #1029 is any indication. 73, Drew AF2Z ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by drewko
In my case, the original knobs were perfectly concentric in that the shaft
holes were centered properly. Unfortunately however, those were the ones that cracked. Both sets of replacements that I received from Elecraft had off-centered shaft holes. This is the reason why I ended up purchasing the machined knobs from Mouser. James K2QI On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:54 PM, drewko <[hidden email]> wrote: > I have K3 #1029. The nested knobs are perfectly concentric to my eye. > The Shift/Width knobs don't fall off and are not too short. None have > cracked in one year of almost daily service. > > Perhaps there have been some incompatible production variations along > the way. I don't doubt you are having a problem but have to disagree > with your comments about design. The original design seems perfectly > adequate if #1029 is any indication. > > 73, > Drew > AF2Z > > > -- 73 de James K2QI ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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In reply to this post by Dan in Florida
Hi Folks
Somebody could inform me where can I find the new beta version 3.23? Regards Oms PY5EG ________________________________ de Dan Enviada: sáb 1/8/2009 10:27 Para: drewko; [hidden email] Assunto: Re: [Elecraft] Knobs Hi Drew, Let's differentiate between an engineering concept and a manufacturing design. The engineering concept of these knobs is certainly reasonable. For example, when nested knobs nest properly, that's just fine.--they look good and work as planned. Great concept! A design that is suitable for manufacturing is quite a different thing, however. Obviously, the goal is for the knobs to work properly not just on your K3, but on ALL other K3's as well. The design dimension tolerances must be specified in view of the manufacturing precision which is available to implement the design concept. Some of us think that a different design concept could be mass produced with more precision so that all of the knobs work properly on all of the K3's. I'm sure there are several who will be glad to hear that this is my last comment on knobs--honest. 73, Dan - W4TQ ps: The superb fit of the K3 chassis/enclosure parts demonstrates that there is someone at Elecraft who thoroughly understands manufacturing design tolerances. Congratulations on a great job in that area of the mechanical design. ................................................................................................................................................ I have K3 #1029. The nested knobs are perfectly concentric to my eye. The Shift/Width knobs don't fall off and are not too short. None have cracked in one year of almost daily service. Perhaps there have been some incompatible production variations along the way. I don't doubt you are having a problem but have to disagree with your comments about design. The original design seems perfectly adequate if #1029 is any indication. 73, Drew AF2Z ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Oms:
It is only available to a few PRE-beta testers at the moment. 73, Ken K3IU py5eg wrote: > Hi Folks > Somebody could inform me where can I find the new beta version 3.23? > Regards > Oms PY5EG > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Thanks for info
73 Oms ________________________________ De: Ken Wagner K3IU [mailto:[hidden email]] Enviada: sáb 1/8/2009 17:10 Para: py5eg Cc: Dan; drewko; [hidden email] Assunto: Re: [Elecraft] VERSION 3.23 Oms: It is only available to a few PRE-beta testers at the moment. 73, Ken K3IU py5eg wrote: Hi Folks Somebody could inform me where can I find the new beta version 3.23? Regards Oms PY5EG ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Dan in Florida
I had mine factory built. So I have never removed the knobs and have not
noticed any issues. I like my knobs. Respectfully submitted -- a ham for a measly 49 years. Bill K9yeq -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dan Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:19 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] Knobs I've been reading the posts about knobs for several months, and I was trying to resist the temptation to voice my objection to the knobs on my K3 (#3020). After all, I decided on the K3 because of it's advertised and acclaimed performance, not the cosmetics or knobs. The situation though, reminds me of the line in the original Mash movie (adapted for K3 owners): "Just because we're K3 owners, doesn't mean we're barbarians". Translated: we should be able to own one of the best radios ever made AND have knobs that both look good and work properly. No, I wouldn't spend $200, but I would spend enough to make a substantial improvement. Actually, some of the alternatives can also be very expensive. For example, I've considered buying a Pro III just to impress visitors to the shack (beautiful display and nice knobs). Of course when they would leave, I would turn off the Pro III, and turn on the K3. Prior to reading any of the complaints, when I was assembling the K3 and came upon the "nested knobs", I couldn't believe that they didn't have brass inserts. I thought, "they sure must have come a long way in injection molded plastics to be able to make nested knobs with the necessary dimension controls to assure proper operation". I was also surprised to see that the shift-width-speed-cmp knobs were a push-on design, and they looked like they were too short for the length of the shafts. I tried to keep an open mind, figuring that these guys must know what they are doing--they've produced a radio that some very experienced hams are raving about. Well, after assembly was complete..... 1) The nested knobs would not operate unless they were "un-nested", due to concentricity problems. Brass inserts would solve the problem, because the brass is drilled after assembly of the knob, assuring concentricity. 2) The shift-width-speed-cmp knobs still don't look right to me. Also, I had a problem with them falling off. Elecraft rushed me a new set of knobs, but the problem continued. I finally but a small dab of contact cement on each knob, to keep them from falling off. I would prefer a knob with a brass insert and a set screw, as opposed to using glue. Group Dynamics at the Radio Factories? If an engineer at one of the major brand radio companies submitted a design with theses knobs, he would be beaten into submission at one of the many stages of design review. While a smaller company like Elecraft can be very agile, and can respond quickly to customer needs there can also be a disadvantage when a key man is invested in a marginal design concept. Junior engineers don't make eye contact, or stare off in a different direction, maybe whistling. You may hear comments like, "If you know what's good for you, don't say anything to the old man about those knobs."--just kidding, Wayne. The Missing Link? In a few hundred years when archeologists are examining the remains of old radios, one of the pressing questions will be: Were software defined radios developed because we lost the ability to make knobs, or did we loose the ability to make knobs because of software defined radios? We wouldn't want the K3 to be known as the missing link, would we? Respectfully submitted, Dan - W4TQ (ham for 50 years!) ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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