LINIX PCs and ham SW?
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LINIX PCs and ham SW?
 
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Hi Folks,
I'm considering buying an inexpensive LINIX PC (i.e., ASUS eee) to be dedicated to my station - my primary uses would be logging, rig control and as a panadapter. Other uses would be running design programs, e.g. EZNEC, TL-details, and general word processing, spreadsheet, e-mail and web browsing. What is the availability of ham SW for these applications that will run under LINIX? Will any of the SRD programs that can be used for panadapter purposes run under LINIX? What about sound card capability and audio input and output? Will EZNEC, etc. ruin under LINIX? Thanks. Bob W1SRB _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: LINIX PCs and ham SW?
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Check out these websites:
http://radio.linux.org.au/ http://www.ac6v.com/software.htm#LIN 73! Dan KB6NU ---------------------------------------------------------- CW Geek and MI Affiliated Club Coordinator Read my ham radio blog at http://www.kb6nu.com LET'S REALLY MAKE THE ARRL THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR HAM RADIO On Jul 1, 2008, at 11:04 AM, Solosko, Robert B (Bob) wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I'm considering buying an inexpensive LINIX PC (i.e., ASUS eee) > to be dedicated to my station - my primary uses would be logging, rig > control and as a panadapter. Other uses would be running design > programs, e.g. EZNEC, TL-details, and general word processing, > spreadsheet, e-mail and web browsing. > > What is the availability of ham SW for these applications that > will run under LINIX? Will any of the SRD programs that can be used > for > panadapter purposes run under LINIX? What about sound card capability > and audio input and output? Will EZNEC, etc. ruin under LINIX? > > Thanks. > > Bob W1SRB > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Solosko, Robert B (Bob)
I have a Asus eeePC 4G.
Great little laptop - little is the key word! It came with Linux - Xandros derivitive. Fairly difficult to install other software on it. I was going to put Ubuntu on it, but the first disk I came across was the XP CD, so I stuck a stripped down XP on the eeePC. Love the 30 or 40 second boot time. It runs K3 Utility, Writelog, Office, and FT-817 Commander. I think if I were ordering one today, as much as I love Linux, I would probably get it with XP. Besides - IMHO, and I will probably be taken to task for this statement - the Linux Ham Radio software is really lame compared to the Ham Radio software written for Windows. 72 73 Hank K8DD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Solosko, Robert B (Bob)" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:04 AM Subject: [Elecraft] LINIX PCs and ham SW? Hi Folks, I'm considering buying an inexpensive LINIX PC (i.e., ASUS eee) to be dedicated to my station - my primary uses would be logging, rig control and as a panadapter. Other uses would be running design programs, e.g. EZNEC, TL-details, and general word processing, spreadsheet, e-mail and web browsing. What is the availability of ham SW for these applications that will run under LINIX? Will any of the SRD programs that can be used for panadapter purposes run under LINIX? What about sound card capability and audio input and output? Will EZNEC, etc. ruin under LINIX? Thanks. Bob W1SRB _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ____________________________________________________________ FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop! Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/earth _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Solosko, Robert B (Bob)
There is a lot of stuff at the sites which Dan mentioned.
EZNEC is written for Windows only, but there are Linux applications which use NEC (under the antennas tab on http://radio.linux.org.au). OpenOffice is a pretty good general office suite (word processing, spreadsheets, etc.) The Firefox browser is available for Linux and there are many applications for email. There are also several choices available for logging and rig control. I don't know if the eee is powerful enough for everything, however (this would also be a problem with Windows installed). On Jul 1, 2008, at 8:04 AM, Solosko, Robert B (Bob) wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I'm considering buying an inexpensive LINIX PC (i.e., ASUS eee) > to be dedicated to my station - my primary uses would be logging, rig > control and as a panadapter. Other uses would be running design > programs, e.g. EZNEC, TL-details, and general word processing, > spreadsheet, e-mail and web browsing. > > What is the availability of ham SW for these applications that > will run under LINIX? Will any of the SRD programs that can be used > for > panadapter purposes run under LINIX? What about sound card capability > and audio input and output? Will EZNEC, etc. ruin under LINIX? > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by .k8dd.-2
Yep, and one of the disadvantages of it being little is that the screen is too small for many of the ham radio apps (such as they are) to fit. I'd go for a full size laptop unless you actually need it to be the size of the Eee. I think the main reason for using Linux is not to use Windows. Not to pay the Microsoft "tax", not to constantly be on vigil for viruses and spyware, not to be forced at some point to have to use the bloated, ugly abomination that is Vista. If you don't care about any of that, there is little reason to beat your head aginst the wall trying to use Linux. You can count the ham radio applications that are comparable to what you could find for Windows on the fingers of one hand. To use many of them you will have to learn how to compile programs from source code, which can be quite a hassle even if you're a computer programmer and familiar with the concept. I hate to knock Linux, and I think it's a shame there isn't more good ham radio software for it. The reasons I gave for not wanting to use Windows mean something to me. But my shack PC is partitioned into both Windows and Linux and increasingly I'm finding myself back in Windows because everything just works better and seems so much easier. (I do use Linux for work - 99% of which is accomplished in Firefox which works the same on any platform.)
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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In reply to this post by Solosko, Robert B (Bob)
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Hash: SHA1 Hello Bob, The software situation for Ham Radio in Linux vs Windows isn't very good ~ and it's not the fault of the OS. Linux is the superior operating system. The problem is, with a few notable exceptions like Dave Freese W1HKJ, not that many Hams are developing software for Linux. There is no Visual Basic in Linux. Getting the operating system installed and configured is actually easier than windows and last time I did it took half the time XP required. I run Linux most of the time but still do boot the Winders partition on occasion. I don't know of any exact Linux replacements for EZNEC, Power SDR and your other design software. There are all sorts of logging, digital, and rig control programs out there for Linux. For general office, email, web surfing, multimedia, Linux is nose to nose with windows. BTW, actually having to compile programs from source, if on the RARE occasion that you have to do it, is usually three CLI commands. ./configure make make install I've been using Linux since the days when not all 1.44 floppy drives (super drives) and most CD drives (Sony clones) weren't compatible and took some fancy footwork to make functional. The difference between then and now is amazing. Solosko, Robert B (Bob) wrote: | Hi Folks, | | I'm considering buying an inexpensive LINIX PC (i.e., ASUS eee) | to be dedicated to my station - my primary uses would be logging, rig | control and as a panadapter. Other uses would be running design | programs, e.g. EZNEC, TL-details, and general word processing, | spreadsheet, e-mail and web browsing. | | What is the availability of ham SW for these applications that | will run under LINIX? Will any of the SRD programs that can be used for | panadapter purposes run under LINIX? What about sound card capability | and audio input and output? Will EZNEC, etc. ruin under LINIX? | | Thanks. | | Bob W1SRB R. Kevin Stover, ACØH -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIa3jw11jxjloa2wsRAitNAJ40TURiRr0sk79djmnns7EJn/eKJwCgplTo Dt4t7hokDBLeG224HUPi6so= =3k9E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080701-0, 07/01/2008 Tested on: 7/2/2008 7:47:45 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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> The problem is, with a few notable exceptions like Dave Freese
> W1HKJ, not that many Hams are developing software for Linux. There is no > Visual Basic in Linux. There is a "Delphi" though. It's called Lazarus. It's a superb development environment. Unfortunately like many complex open source projects of limited appeal it hasn't enough development resources to reach 100% functionality very quickly. The Windows version is much more widely used and better tested than the Linux version. My attempt to make a Linux version of my K2/K3 logging program keeps running aground because of bugs in the runtime libraries. Most Linux software (including ham software) is developed in C, or in C++ using something similar to MFC which is ten year old technology in Windows terms. It's not surprising that Linux programming doesn't appeal to many self-taught amateur programmers because it's very difficult. > I don't know of any exact Linux replacements for EZNEC, Power SDR and > your other design software. There are all sorts of logging, digital, and > rig control programs out there for Linux. Most of which when you look at them are functionally very basic programs compared to their Windows counterparts. In addition, many have not been touched by their developers for several years. Other than W1HKJ's programs, and jLog - a Java based cross platform logging program - I don't know of any Linux ham software that is being actively developed. Even gMFSK - the only Linux multimode software besides Fldigi - seems to have been abandoned by its developer. > BTW, actually having to compile programs from source, if on the RARE > occasion that you have to do it, is usually three CLI commands. > > ./configure > make > make install It's not a rare occasion, because many ham programs (including W1HKJ's) are not included in the repositories of major distributions. Those that are, are often not the latest version. And precompiled Linux binaries (unlike Windows .EXEs) very often won't run on a different version than the one they were compiled on. Three commands may work to compile the very simplest basic C programs, but for many others especially GUI programs you first need to download and install various development libraries, many of which may have dependencies on other software that also needs to be installed. Because of this, even after considerable effort, I utterly failed to produce a version of W1HKJ's Fldigi that would run on the Asus Eee PC. The only advice I received was to replace the version of Linux that came with the Eee with another one, which I was unwilling to do for the sake of one program. Fortunately I still have a copy of an older version that will run on it (if anyone wants it, it can be found in the Zerobeat forum.) So choosing to run Linux in your shack is not a decision to be taken on a whim. It needs to be thought through, and part of that consideration should be choosing a version that will run whatever software you need. If you ever think that you might want to run HRD then forget it - I don't see any likelihood that something even approaching its capabilities will ever be developed for Linux. I believe W1HKJ has a distribution called EMCPup available as an .iso file. From this you can burn a CD and boot your existing PC without affecting the Windows partition. It includes Fldigi and logging software. That might be the best way to try out Linux ham software without doing anything irrevocable.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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G4ILO wrote:
> So choosing to run Linux in your shack is not a decision to be taken on a > whim. It needs to be thought through, and part of that consideration should > be choosing a version that will run whatever software you need. If you ever > think that you might want to run HRD then forget it - I don't see any > likelihood that something even approaching its capabilities will ever be > developed for Linux. There *is* one thing that might help which I haven't heard mentioned. There's something called WINE (which stands for "Wine Is Not an Emulator"). WINE translates Windows system functions into Linux equivalents so that, sometimes, a Windows program will run under Linux. I installed WINE under Ubuntu (Hardy version) Linux in a few minutes -- it's in the Synaptic Package Manager. No compilation required. I have been surprised at how many Windows programs do run successfully under WINE and how good performance is. Later today I will try EZNEC and see if it will work. Purists hate the idea because it perpetuates the use of closed source programs, and because they retain their Windows interface, etc. But if it makes it possible to run essential software that would otherwise keep you in Windows, then it's a good thing in my estimation. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Yes, I use it. My Morse training programs will run under Wine, as will the popular VOAProp (which actually runs better under Linux/Wine than under Windows Vista.) I recall that MixW crashed horribly when I tried it. Has anyone been brave enough to try HRD? Fortunately the Linux version of the K3 Utility appeared so I never needed to try a firmware update under Wine.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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At the moment HRD doesn't work with Wine. Quite a lot of the program does
run, just not the radio control part :-( Simon Brown, HB9DRV -------------------------------------------------- From: "G4ILO" <[hidden email]> > > I recall that MixW crashed horribly when I tried it. Has anyone been brave > enough to try HRD? Fortunately the Linux version of the K3 Utility > appeared > so I never needed to try a firmware update under Wine. > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
> Other than W1HKJ's programs, and jLog - a Java based cross
> platform logging program - I don't know of any Linux ham software > that is being actively developed. Hmmmm.... http://www.qsl.net/kd2bd/software.html And that's just me. :-) > And precompiled Linux binaries (unlike Windows > .EXEs) very often won't run on a different version than > the one they were compiled on. It's *ALWAYS* best to compile from source. That way, the executable that is produced is tailored specifically for your CPU and computing platform for best performance. (Sort of like having all your impedances matched.) > Three commands may work to compile the very simplest basic > C programs, but for many others especially GUI programs you first > need to download and install various development libraries, many > of which may have dependencies on other software that also needs > to be installed. "Good" distributions (those with enough forethought built into them) usually come with these pre-installed. It is appalling that some of the more popular distros appear to put more effort into "ease of use" issues and "eye candy" than core substance. I have been using Slackware since around 1994, and haven't had the need nor desire to change. Sure, it may take some thought, time, and effort to finalize configurations, but that makes it no different than spending the time to build an Elecraft rig over buying a ready-made transceiver. I doubt there is an Elecraft builder alive who doesn't fully believe the small effort to build their kit wasn't worth the reward it provided in the end. And so what is true for hardware is also true for software, for very similar reasons. Don't give up so easily. ;-) 73, de John, KD2BD -- Visit John on the Web at: http://kd2bd.ham.org/ . . . _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
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Hash: SHA1 G4ILO wrote: | It's not a rare occasion, because many ham programs (including W1HKJ's) are | not included in the repositories of major distributions. Those that are, are | often not the latest version. And precompiled Linux binaries (unlike Windows | .EXEs) very often won't run on a different version than the one they were | compiled on. | Three commands may work to compile the very simplest basic C programs, but | for many others especially GUI programs you first need to download and | install various development libraries, many of which may have dependencies | on other software that also needs to be installed. Nope, they work with the most complex as well. I have done LFS, Linux from Scratch on a couple of occasions. It's not even a "distribution". It's a book which gives you step by step instructions for building your own distro with nothing more than gcc and some source code. It does take a while to compile the X window system but the commands are basically the same with a few variations. The days of having to compile programs are pretty much gone. If they aren't in the Debian or RPM repositories they are probably not getting a lot of users anyhow. | Because of this, even after considerable effort, I utterly failed to produce | a version of W1HKJ's Fldigi that would run on the Asus Eee PC. The only | advice I received was to replace the version of Linux that came with the Eee | with another one, which I was unwilling to do for the sake of one program. | Fortunately I still have a copy of an older version that will run on it (if | anyone wants it, it can be found in the Zerobeat forum.) Give FLDigi another try. Dave is producing pre-compiled binaries of the program. Extract the executable, stick it in /USR or /USR/Share and your off to the races. These binaries work on all Linux distro's and as far as I know FLDigi is available on the Debian repositories, although not the newest version. If you want to do rig control with FLDigi you will need HamLib 1.26, also in the repos. | So choosing to run Linux in your shack is not a decision to be taken on a | whim. It needs to be thought through, and part of that consideration should | be choosing a version that will run whatever software you need. If you ever | think that you might want to run HRD then forget it - I don't see any | likelihood that something even approaching its capabilities will ever be | developed for Linux. Certainly we're not there yet. It is harder to develop software in Linux because your using C, C++, Java rather than one of the "visual" development environments in Windows. You never know, I've been using FLDigi since way before it got popular and the strides Dave has made in such a short time are commendable. IMHO what Linux Ham software needs most is a killer logging app like N1MM or DXLab. Combined with FLDigi you've got most of what most guys/gals want or need. | I believe W1HKJ has a distribution called EMCPup available as an .iso file. |>From this you can burn a CD and boot your existing PC without affecting the | Windows partition. It includes Fldigi and logging software. That might be | the best way to try out Linux ham software without doing anything | irrevocable. Yes, he does. You can also run it off of a Flash "thumb" drive if your machine will boot from USB devices. I am NOT a developer. I am a network/systems guy. I don't have the patience to write and debug code. I learned that in the summer school session from hell when I learned Fortran (shudder). I used to be a gung-ho Linux tweaker, always messing with the system, etc, etc, etc.... I decided a couple years ago that I was wasting a lot of my spare, non-work time messing with OS's, especially Linux. When the "buntu's" came out I decided to quit tweaking and just run it like your average Joe. Haven't been sorry in the slightest and have almost beat my tweaking addiction. ;-) 73 - -- R. Kevin Stover, ACØH -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIbMI411jxjloa2wsRAlgkAJ9lftRJToVUREgDcCGByz1p2tylgwCfdoGf dAvM/wWkKVH+9Dqy7+1JGKc= =SAPY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080702-0, 07/02/2008 Tested on: 7/3/2008 7:12:41 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: LINIX PCs and ham SW?
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In reply to this post by Solosko, Robert B (Bob)
Hello All,
Thanks to all who responded to my request for info on ham SW on a Linux PC. From the responses that I've received, I've concluded that a Linux PC would serve my needs for logging and for control of my K2, but not for SDR/panadapter purposes. (My other uses, e.g., EZNEC, etc., aren't as critical as I can run those applications on the family PC when my wife isn't using it). So, it appears that my other option is a Vista PC - and I have the same questions - what ham SW runs or doesn't run under Vista: logging programs, K2 rig control programs, SDR programs, EZNEC, transmission line programs, etc.? Thanks. Bob W1SRB -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Solosko, Robert B (Bob) Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:05 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] LINIX PCs and ham SW? Hi Folks, I'm considering buying an inexpensive LINIX PC (i.e., ASUS eee) to be dedicated to my station - my primary uses would be logging, rig control and as a panadapter. Other uses would be running design programs, e.g. EZNEC, TL-details, and general word processing, spreadsheet, e-mail and web browsing. What is the availability of ham SW for these applications that will run under LINIX? Will any of the SRD programs that can be used for panadapter purposes run under LINIX? What about sound card capability and audio input and output? Will EZNEC, etc. ruin under LINIX? Thanks. Bob W1SRB _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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