Elecraft

Mail for Windows 10

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Chuck Chandler

Mail for Windows 10

After reviewing several of my recent emails that came to the list as blank
emails, and seeing a few of those every few days on this list from others,
I am beginning to think the listserv here is configured to reject HTML
Mail. The shack computer has Mail for Windows 10 on it, and that was used
for a few emails recently. I also used my phone, and another
computer where I was using the G-Mail web interface. But, the shack PC and
it's Mail for Windows 10 seems to be the one that delivered empty or blank
emails to the list.

Can an administrator of the list (or someone knowledgeable about the
reflector) advise if this list rejects HTML Mail? That appears to be the
only format used by Mail for Windows 10.

Alternatively, has anyone had success using Mail for Windows 10 for posting
to this list? M4W10 settings don't show any send format controls, and a
web search showed nothing but a series of complaints about the lack of
plain text sending from 3 years back.

--
73 de Chuck, WS1L

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W2xj

Re: Mail for Windows 10

the vast majority of list servers strip HTML.

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 28, 2020, at 8:11 PM, Chuck Chandler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> After reviewing several of my recent emails that came to the list as blank
> emails, and seeing a few of those every few days on this list from others,
> I am beginning to think the listserv here is configured to reject HTML
> Mail. The shack computer has Mail for Windows 10 on it, and that was used
> for a few emails recently. I also used my phone, and another
> computer where I was using the G-Mail web interface. But, the shack PC and
> it's Mail for Windows 10 seems to be the one that delivered empty or blank
> emails to the list.
>
> Can an administrator of the list (or someone knowledgeable about the
> reflector) advise if this list rejects HTML Mail? That appears to be the
> only format used by Mail for Windows 10.
>
> Alternatively, has anyone had success using Mail for Windows 10 for posting
> to this list? M4W10 settings don't show any send format controls, and a
> web search showed nothing but a series of complaints about the lack of
> plain text sending from 3 years back.
>
> --
> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>
> [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Lyn WØLEN

Re: Mail for Windows 10

I am not using Windows 10, but am posting this in HTML as a test.

73

Lyn, W0LEN

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of W2xj
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:40 PM
To: Chuck Chandler
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mail for Windows 10

the vast majority of list servers strip HTML.

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 28, 2020, at 8:11 PM, Chuck Chandler <[hidden email]> wrote:

>

> After reviewing several of my recent emails that came to the list as blank

> emails, and seeing a few of those every few days on this list from others,

> I am beginning to think the listserv here is configured to reject HTML

> Mail. The shack computer has Mail for Windows 10 on it, and that was used

> for a few emails recently. I also used my phone, and another

> computer where I was using the G-Mail web interface. But, the shack PC and

> it's Mail for Windows 10 seems to be the one that delivered empty or blank

> emails to the list.

>

> Can an administrator of the list (or someone knowledgeable about the

> reflector) advise if this list rejects HTML Mail? That appears to be the

> only format used by Mail for Windows 10.

>

> Alternatively, has anyone had success using Mail for Windows 10 for posting

> to this list? M4W10 settings don't show any send format controls, and a

> web search showed nothing but a series of complaints about the lack of

> plain text sending from 3 years back.

>

> --

> 73 de Chuck, WS1L

>

> [hidden email]

> ______________________________________________________________

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k6dgw

Re: Mail for Windows 10

Inspecting the headers and msg body, your reply contains text

73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 4/28/2020 6:46 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

> I am not using Windows 10, but am posting this in HTML as a test.
>
>
>
> 73
>
> Lyn, W0LEN
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of W2xj
> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:40 PM
> To: Chuck Chandler
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mail for Windows 10
>
>
>
> the vast majority of list servers strip HTML.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>> On Apr 28, 2020, at 8:11 PM, Chuck Chandler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> After reviewing several of my recent emails that came to the list as blank
>> emails, and seeing a few of those every few days on this list from others,
>> I am beginning to think the listserv here is configured to reject HTML
>> Mail. The shack computer has Mail for Windows 10 on it, and that was used
>> for a few emails recently. I also used my phone, and another
>> computer where I was using the G-Mail web interface. But, the shack PC and
>> it's Mail for Windows 10 seems to be the one that delivered empty or blank
>> emails to the list.
>> Can an administrator of the list (or someone knowledgeable about the
>> reflector) advise if this list rejects HTML Mail? That appears to be the
>> only format used by Mail for Windows 10.
>> Alternatively, has anyone had success using Mail for Windows 10 for posting
>> to this list? M4W10 settings don't show any send format controls, and a
>> web search showed nothing but a series of complaints about the lack of
>> plain text sending from 3 years back.
>> --
>> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>> [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: Mail for Windows 10

In reply to this post by Chuck Chandler

On 4/28/2020 5:10 PM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
> I am beginning to think the listserv here is configured to reject HTML
> Mail.

More correctly, it rejects formatted text. When you see blank emails
with no content, that's why. I've posted to that effect several times in
the last week.

I've used a full-featured program called Thunderbird for decades -- it
can do formatted or un-formatted text. It's also VERY versatile in its
ability to create mailboxes and sort based on key words (like the
[Elecraft] in a message header, and it can handle multiple email
addresses. It's published by Mozilla, who does Firefox. And it's free.

73, Jim K9YC
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N4ZR

Re: Mail for Windows 10

I, too, use Thunderbird with Windows 10. I have HTML selected in my
Composition and Addressing options, yet my messages come through fine.
I do have unicode selected as my Encoding and auto-detect selected for
Delivery Format, which may have something (or everything) to do with it.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 4/29/2020 12:34 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 4/28/2020 5:10 PM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
>> I am beginning to think the listserv here is configured to reject HTML
>> Mail.
>
> More correctly, it rejects formatted text. When you see blank emails
> with no content, that's why. I've posted to that effect several times
> in the last week.
>
> I've used a full-featured program called Thunderbird for decades -- it
> can do formatted or un-formatted text. It's also VERY versatile in its
> ability to create mailboxes and sort based on key words (like the
> [Elecraft] in a message header, and it can handle multiple email
> addresses. It's published by Mozilla, who does Firefox. And it's free.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Chuck Chandler

Re: Mail for Windows 10

Most email clients send both an html and a plain text component. Some
lists strip the HTML and only display the plain text. Others can accept
HTML without a problem, for example Groups.io lists. Using Mail for
Windows 10 with them works fine.

From my limited research it seems Mail for Windows 10 only sends an HTML
component. The Elecraft list software then appears to accept the email and
post the header, but not display any content. Whether or not it then
generates an error message to the list owners I don't know. It certainly
doesn't provide any 'bounce' notice to the sender. Caveat: I have no
access to the list mechanisms, just a passing familiarity with having run a
few listservs at work.

Unless the list is capable of being re-configured (possibly with the '
*convert_html_to_plaintext* ' option?), I would urge some notice be given
to users that this list is incompatible with Mail for Windows 10, since
there does not appear to be any sort of error feedback other than that
provided by other users who let you know your message did not get through.
Doing so might also reduce the amount of "test" and empty-content messages
on the list. Since Mail for Windows 10 is the default mail client for any
PC running Windows 10, the issue is unlikely to go away on it's own.

73 de Chuck, WS1L

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 6:56 AM N4ZR <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I, too, use Thunderbird with Windows 10. I have HTML selected in my
> Composition and Addressing options, yet my messages come through fine.
> I do have unicode selected as my Encoding and auto-detect selected for
> Delivery Format, which may have something (or everything) to do with it.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
>
> On 4/29/2020 12:34 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
> > On 4/28/2020 5:10 PM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
> >> I am beginning to think the listserv here is configured to reject HTML
> >> Mail.
> >
> > More correctly, it rejects formatted text. When you see blank emails
> > with no content, that's why. I've posted to that effect several times
> > in the last week.
> >
> > I've used a full-featured program called Thunderbird for decades -- it
> > can do formatted or un-formatted text. It's also VERY versatile in its
> > ability to create mailboxes and sort based on key words (like the
> > [Elecraft] in a message header, and it can handle multiple email
> > addresses. It's published by Mozilla, who does Firefox. And it's free.
> >
> > 73, Jim K9YC
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--

===================
Chuck Chandler
[hidden email]
===================
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kt5te

Re: Mail for Windows 10

In reply to this post by k6dgw

What is all this Windows 10 stuff? ;-)

I've used Kontact for decades and have all the HTML formatting turned off.

Does Win10 Mail have a setting to use "text" only?
--
73, William KT5TE

On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 9:05:40 PM CDT Fred Jensen wrote:

> Inspecting the headers and msg body, your reply contains text
>
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 4/28/2020 6:46 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:
> > I am not using Windows 10, but am posting this in HTML as a test.
> >
> >
> >
> > 73
> >
> > Lyn, W0LEN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email]
> > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of W2xj Sent:
> > Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:40 PM
> > To: Chuck Chandler
> > Cc: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mail for Windows 10
> >
> >
> >
> > the vast majority of list servers strip HTML.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On Apr 28, 2020, at 8:11 PM, Chuck Chandler <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >> After reviewing several of my recent emails that came to the list as
> >> blank
> >> emails, and seeing a few of those every few days on this list from
> >> others,
> >> I am beginning to think the listserv here is configured to reject HTML
> >> Mail. The shack computer has Mail for Windows 10 on it, and that was
> >> used
> >> for a few emails recently. I also used my phone, and another
> >> computer where I was using the G-Mail web interface. But, the shack PC
> >> and
> >> it's Mail for Windows 10 seems to be the one that delivered empty or
> >> blank
> >> emails to the list.
> >> Can an administrator of the list (or someone knowledgeable about the
> >> reflector) advise if this list rejects HTML Mail? That appears to be the
> >> only format used by Mail for Windows 10.
> >> Alternatively, has anyone had success using Mail for Windows 10 for
> >> posting
> >> to this list? M4W10 settings don't show any send format controls, and a
> >> web search showed nothing but a series of complaints about the lack of
> >> plain text sending from 3 years back.
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Kevin Cozens-2

Re: Mail for Windows 10

On 2020-04-29 9:30 a.m., KT5TE wrote:
> I've used Kontact for decades and have all the HTML formatting turned off.

I have used Thunderbird for longer than I can remember. I have it set to use
text only, even for incoming messages. I get to choose if I want to see HTML
formatted messages. The other benefit is a reduction in my being tracked
when reading (spam) emails.

--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/ | "Nerds make the shiny things that
https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
| that's why we're powerful"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |
#include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
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kk4kfg

Re: Mail for Windows 10

In reply to this post by Chuck Chandler

Respectfully I offer the following.

So yet again Microsoft and Windows 10 does something absolutely stupid
and against every known specification for a mail client and the offered
"solution" is for others to fix it or mask a solution.

One of the reasons why Elecraft is a leader in radio innovation. They
understand the insanity of software companies and make sure you do not
need a computer to run their radio.

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NK7Z

Re: Mail for Windows 10

=====================================CUT=====================================
On 4/29/20 7:04 AM, kk4kfg wrote:
Respectfully I offer the following.

So yet again Microsoft and Windows 10 does something absolutely stupid
and against every known specification for a mail client and the offered
"solution" is for others to fix it or mask a solution.
=====================================CUT=====================================

...and that is why I run Linux as my main OS!

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
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Lyn WØLEN

Re: Mail for Windows 10

Apparently Microsoft Outlook has none of the issues being described.

73

Lyn, W0LEN

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave Cole
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 9:46 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mail for Windows 10

=====================================CUT====================================
=

On 4/29/20 7:04 AM, kk4kfg wrote:

Respectfully I offer the following.

So yet again Microsoft and Windows 10 does something absolutely stupid

and against every known specification for a mail client and the offered

"solution" is for others to fix it or mask a solution.

=====================================CUT====================================
=

...and that is why I run Linux as my main OS!

73, and thanks,

Dave (NK7Z)

https://www.nk7z.net

ARRL Volunteer Examiner

ARRL Technical Specialist

ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

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EricJ-2

Re: Mail for Windows 10

In reply to this post by Kevin Cozens-2

Another benefit is not getting a screen full of inane animated emojis
from friends and relatives when html is eliminated.

Thunderbird logs in, sorts and processes email from three accounts for
me. It puts elecraft email in one folder after stripping out any emails
with product names from K3 on (hi). I only have a K1 and two K2s. It
doesn't strip off-topic emails which are often the most interesting part
of all the email reflectors I belong to. Other groups are also sorted to
their respective folders and junk/spam/trash goes to a separate one.

Eric KE6US

On 4/29/2020 6:47 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote:
> On 2020-04-29 9:30 a.m., KT5TE wrote:
>> I've used Kontact for decades and have all the HTML formatting turned
>> off.
>
> I have used Thunderbird for longer than I can remember. I have it set
> to use text only, even for incoming messages. I get to choose if I
> want to see HTML formatted messages. The other benefit is a reduction
> in my being tracked when reading (spam) emails.
>
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Mail for Windows 10

In reply to this post by Chuck Chandler

On 4/29/2020 5:31 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
> Unless the list is capable of being re-configured (possibly with the '
> *convert_html_to_plaintext* ' option?), I would urge some notice be given
> to users that this list is incompatible with Mail for Windows 10,

This reflector has been happily operating for 20 years with plain text.
I subscribe to about 30 lists, half of which operate with plain text. I
suggest that users get with THAT program, rather than suggest that these
lists are wrong.

73, Jim K9YC

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Phil Kane-2

Re: Mail for Windows 10

In reply to this post by kk4kfg

On 4/29/2020 7:04 AM, kk4kfg wrote:

> So yet again Microsoft and Windows 10 does something absolutely stupid
> and against every known specification for a mail client and the offered
> "solution" is for others to fix it or mask a solution.

I use Windows 10 on all my PCs and my wife's Microsoft Surface. We just
don't use Mail. To paraphrase an old cartoon - is it OK to wear jeans
in school? Yes it's OK to wear jeans in school , but it it not OK to
wear jeans in THIS school".

I too have used Thunderbird for at least 20 years, after I switched from
PC-Mail and the IBM-OS/2 operating system to Windows NT. My arm still
hurts from being twisted.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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John Kosko

Re: Mail for Windows 10

In reply to this post by Chuck Chandler

I’m running a one year old ASUS using Windows 10 and Hotmail/Outlook and Win10 is NOT in Win7 mode. I’m not aware of a problem, although I didn’t get any Elecraft emails yesterday…odd.
Regards, John K8TCT K3S s/n 11718

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-3

Re: Mail for Windows 10

In reply to this post by kk4kfg

Ah, sadly, no. As much as I like to blame Microsoft, we have to start
with RFC-1341 and Multipurpose Independent Mail Extensions.

Microsoft did not contribute to that RFC.

MIME allows more than one formatting option. We had something called
"Rich Text" but Netscape brought us HTML as a formatting option, and
that made it possible to embed code that would load malware on your
computer.

That's when List Servers got the ability to strip formatting -- it put a
stop to people blaming the list for the poor security in their OS.

HTML is a poor choice, but it's also supported in just about every
E-Mail client.

This is where we can blame Microsoft (some), but it's hard to render
HTML and detect all the possible issues.

73 -- Lynn, WB6UUT

P.S. Thunderbird is much better, but this issue remains.

On 4/29/20 7:04 AM, kk4kfg wrote:
> Respectfully I offer the following.
>
> So yet again Microsoft and Windows 10 does something absolutely stupid
> and against every known specification for a mail client and the offered
> "solution" is for others to fix it or mask a solution.
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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-3

Re: Mail for Windows 10

In reply to this post by Lyn WØLEN

It depends on the version and how it is configured.

On 4/29/20 8:20 AM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

> Apparently Microsoft Outlook has none of the issues being described.
>
>
>
> 73
>
> Lyn, W0LEN
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave Cole
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 9:46 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mail for Windows 10
>
>
>
> =====================================CUT====================================
> =
>
> On 4/29/20 7:04 AM, kk4kfg wrote:
>
> Respectfully I offer the following.
>
>
>
> So yet again Microsoft and Windows 10 does something absolutely stupid
>
> and against every known specification for a mail client and the offered
>
> "solution" is for others to fix it or mask a solution.
>
> =====================================CUT====================================
> =
>
>
>
> ...and that is why I run Linux as my main OS!
>
>
>
> 73, and thanks,
>
> Dave (NK7Z)
>
> https://www.nk7z.net
>
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>
> ARRL Technical Specialist
>
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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bdenley

Re: Mail for Windows 10

In reply to this post by EricJ-2

Test

Brian KB1VBF

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Elecraft mailing list
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George Danner-2

Re: Mail for Windows 10

In reply to this post by EricJ-2

Works from Windows Live Mail

73
George AI4VZ

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Denley

Test

Brian KB1VBF

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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