Make this email list more manageable - a forum instead?

Grant is right on.

As I said in the last one of these discussions, "What's all the fuss about?"

If there is a change, please, please, please don't go to Yahoo or Google
groups.  They are pathetic.

Wes  N7WS

On 8/19/2017 7:49 AM, GRANT YOUNGMAN wrote:
> Really?  A separate forum for Macros????  Would that be TWO forums — one for KX3 macros and one for K3 macros?  Or separate forums for the KX# used only for a home station and a KX# used while backpacking?
>
> It makes me wonder how people read a newspaper.  Did they write letters to the editor complaining about all of the OT stories they weren’t interested in and how turning so many pages (especially on Sunday) that made their life more difficult?  Was there a customized option delivered to their door that contained only the very specific news items or points of view they wanted to read?  Did they complain about ink and paper usage for stuff that wasn’t personally interesting?
>
> In the end I suppose it doesn’t really matter whether it’s a reflector or a forum, although my personal preference is the former.  I’d probably read the whole thing anyway (or all 15 of them?), since one never knows when there might be a tidbit of actual good information that doesn’t have their personal navel in the subject line.
>
> The whole argument about it is kind of silly, egregiously self-centered, and just adds to the queue length  …  last time I had that kind of tunnel vision I was pulling high G’s in a jet trainer :-)
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

No, you wouldn't have to go to multiple places.  You click your Bookmark for the Elecraft forum - one place.  If you like to see EVERYTHING that's new, you click the New Posts button.  If you are only interested in the K3, you click the K3 subforum that is a link on the main main of the Elecraft forum.  When you're done, you click Mark All Forums Read, and next time you log in, you see what's new.  

Search is very easy and customizable - by subject, author, title, date range, etc.  That alone would cut down on considerable traffic, as the same questions wouldn't be repeated over and over.

It's very easy.  I read probably half a dozen forums (mostly non-ham) and it's a part of my morning routine.  It's a lot less time consuming and cumbersome than reading through emails, filters or not.

Of course, the final decision resides with the Elecraft powers-that-be.  It surprises me that such a customer-friendly and state-of-the-art group hasn't already taken this step.  Just food for thought...

Barry W2UP

Allan Zadiraka wrote

Since I own a number of Elecraft products, I am very happy with the current
setup.  Separate forums would mean I would have to go to multiple places to
follow the different products.  The Elecraft traffic is a minor part of my
daily email load (~500/day) and I am interested in seeing trends on other
Elecraft products in case I want to evaluate purchasing one.

zeke
ab8ou

On 19/08/17 13:12, Barry wrote:
> As Elecraft has grown, this email list has gotten quite a bit more traffic.
> It's not easy to manage, especially with the increasing number of products
> all lumped in.
>
> Why not convert it over to a forum?  Use vBulletin or similar, and every
> product can have its own subcategory, and it would be much easier to pick
> and choose topics of interest.

With respect, I disagree. This email list is easy enough to manage if
you use a decent email client, such as Thunderbird. I read 19 different
lists and groups this way, some of them high volume like this one.

For each list, I have filters that automatically sort incoming messages
into one of 19 folders, leaving just non-list stuff in my default inbox.
I then view the lists in 'threaded' mode, and if there's a thread I'm
not following, or if I haven't got time to read the list at all that
day, I just 'mark thread as read' or 'mark all as read'.

A web forum does none of this, and you can only go through the messages
as fast as the forum's web server will let you. It's a thoroughly
inferior way of working.

That said, I wish this list was restricted to Elecraft-related topics
only - there's far too much noise IMHO.


73,
Richard G4DYA
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

  Agreed X10! I like this reflector personally.

73!

Tom - KB2SMS

KX2 #01927


On 08/19/2017 11:43 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:
> Grant is right on.
>
> As I said in the last one of these discussions, "What's all the fuss
> about?"
>
> If there is a change, please, please, please don't go to Yahoo or
> Google groups.  They are pathetic.
>
> Wes  N7WS

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

I like the list as is, but moderation could be tweaked perhaps. I subscribe
(and learn from) several tens of lists. I am subscribed to a few fora, but
very rarely visit them.

Keep the list as is!


a45wg <[hidden email]> wrote:


--
Brian D
G3VGZ  Yarm    England
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

I agree with Grant and others.  There are advantages to a Forum, but I would regret losing the open-textured character of a reflector.  I think of it as if it were an OTA net among friends and colleagues and potential friends and colleagues with common interests.  Not always very efficient, but a conversational nexus with its own advantages.  

If I need something very specific there’s always the topical archives.  Or a question to the goup.

Ted, KN1CBR


______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

I have my email client set up automatically to move *all* messages from this
list to one folder. Right now I have enough spare time to go to that folder
every day and read what interests me. I guess that is similar to reading the
digest. At times when I am very busy, I just don't look at the Elecraft
folder at all. My inbox doesn't show anything from this list. Sure, I might
miss an important piece of news about a new product, or an important new
feature, etc, but seriously, if I am really busy, I am better off not
knowing about those things. When I again have more time available, I can
easily go back to the Elecraft folder, and read it all, or just search for
interesting keywords. Faster and more convenient than using the archives.
The folder takes up a lot of disk space, but that is cheap nowadays. My
conclusion: The list is fine as it is.

73,
Erik K7TV

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Barry
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 8:51 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Make this email list more manageable - a forum
instead?

No, you wouldn't have to go to multiple places.  You click your Bookmark for
the Elecraft forum - one place.  If you like to see EVERYTHING that's new,
you click the New Posts button.  If you are only interested in the K3, you
click the K3 subforum that is a link on the main main of the Elecraft forum.

When you're done, you click Mark All Forums Read, and next time you log in,
you see what's new.  

Search is very easy and customizable - by subject, author, title, date
range, etc.  That alone would cut down on considerable traffic, as the same
questions wouldn't be repeated over and over.

It's very easy.  I read probably half a dozen forums (mostly non-ham) and
it's a part of my morning routine.  It's a lot less time consuming and
cumbersome than reading through emails, filters or not.

Of course, the final decision resides with the Elecraft powers-that-be.  It
surprises me that such a customer-friendly and state-of-the-art group hasn't
already taken this step.  Just food for thought...

Barry W2UP


Allan Zadiraka wrote
> Since I own a number of Elecraft products, I am very happy with the
> current setup.  Separate forums would mean I would have to go to
> multiple places to follow the different products.  The Elecraft
> traffic is a minor part of my daily email load (~500/day) and I am
> interested in seeing trends on other Elecraft products in case I want
> to evaluate purchasing one.
>
> zeke
> ab8ou







--
View this message in context:
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Make-this-email-list-more-manageable-a-
forum-instead-tp7633522p7633551.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Ain't broke so why fix it?  I subscribe via the digest as it keeps
all Elecraft related e-mail in single e-mail instead of spread
throughout my in-basket.  I subscribe to many other reflectors so I
do not need this one segmented into many sub-lists.  Do that and I
will unsubscribe.  I'm mainly here to keep up on Elecraft equipment topics.

73, Ed - KL7UW
   http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
   [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Oh, please don't.

A "push" technology, like E-Mail means that more of us will participate.

Web Based forums are a "pull" -- one has to be dedicated enough to go to
the forum.  It slows the tempo and reduces participation.

It isn't a magic bullet.  People still post in forum sections off topic.

Before I retired, I ran an ISP and did E-Mail professionally, including
mail filtering.  The greatest tool I found is called PopFile.

PopFile can, with a minimal amount of work, split out mail by product
mentioned.  You don't have to figure out what keywords to use, you just
have to move mail that is mis-classified to the right place.  Takes a
couple of days worth of mail to train to 90% accuracy or so, and not
long after before it's near 99%.

73 -- Lynn


On 8/19/2017 5:12 AM, Barry wrote: ______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

... and while we're on the topic of updating to the 21st century, Morse
Code goes back to the 19th century.  We really are way past time to do
away with this archaic system of dots and dashes and move to 21st
century technology.

See how foolish that sounds?

Seriously folks.  I've been on much busier lists.

If you are using a web-based mail system like Yahoo or GMail, I can see
how it might be a little inconvenient to just hit "delete."

There are Bayesian Filter classifiers that are incredibly accurate, that
would split this list out by topic dramatically well.

PopFile will even reach out from your computer, using IMAP, and classify
mail in your Yahoo or GMail account!

73 -- Lynn

On 8/19/2017 7:04 AM, Steve Mollman via Elecraft wrote:
> It is time to update this to the 21st century.
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Argh!  I will lose access to Elecraft if they move to a "forum".
ALL of my work is done with a traditional e-mail program - I can
not abide the online "forum" software and have dropped various
list when they transitioned to web only forums.

A quality traditional e-mail program provides all the tools necessary to
filter incoming e-mail based on source (e.g. "Elecraft list") as well as
topic/content (e.g., "Subject" or "Body" contains K3 or K3S).  Anyone
using a quality e-mail program has all the tools necessary to create his
own off-line "forum" experience.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 8/19/2017 10:13 AM, Dave Cole wrote: ______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Keep the list as at present.  Filter on "Subject = [Elecraft] " will put
the entire list into a file of your choice.  If we could get everyone to
include the rig model in their subject line, we could be more specific,
but of course we probably can't do that.

73 - George  W3HBM



______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Let's see....

Assuming the computer is running here's what I have to do:

1. Bring up Thunderbird mail program

2. Select Elecraft folder

3. Scroll down and click on the email I want to read.

For Antique Radio Forum, which I like very much, I do this:

1. Bring up ARF

2. Click on topic I want

3. Scroll through and click on email I want to read.

Looks pretty much the same to me except ARF has things neatly categorized and
topics that interest me are easy to find.

73, Roger N1RJ


On 8/19/2017 2:22 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote: ______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Main difference to me is that with mail reader software I can use
keyboard exclusively. Web forums require mouse
pointing/scrolling/clicking which gets on my nerves very quickly. But
for some people the mouse is easier.

The only solution is a good software solution that combines listserv
with forum. This still does not exist. In the meantime there's no point
trying to convince people that their particular preference must be wrong.


73,
Drew
AF2Z



On 08/21/17 12:38, Roger D Johnson wrote:
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

If you have no vision, reading text emails is a lot easier than having
to mouse around in a forum. I occasionally get an email that my wife
says is blue print on a beautiful forest green background.  I have no
color vision and I can't read it, no contrast. The color schemes often
used in forums regularly provide little or no contrast for me.

The monochrome option for the P3 waterfall makes a huge positive
difference for me, the one in color is unreadable.  Sometimes simple is
the best answer.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 8/21/2017 12:37 PM, Drew AF2Z wrote:
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

I apologize for not replying to this topic earlier. I was off email for a large
part of the weekend. :-)

While we appreciate the interest in switching the Elecraft List to a forum
format, we can not watch all the topics in a multi topic forum. If there are web
forum topics for every product we make, along with other topics, it will quickly
be impossible for us to read and participate in all of them.  Also, we've
observed that when lists like ours fragment into a multi-topic forum, they
quickly lose the sense of community that we have here.  For those reasons we
have always chosen to retain the list email format for the Elecraft list.

As noted before, for those that prefer a searchable web based display of this
list threaded by topic or in calendar date order, the Nabble web based real-time
archive of the Elecraft list does an excellent job of providing a web based
searchable and organized copy of this list. This addresses the 'forum' style
need of most readers.

See:
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Elecraft-f365791.topics.html

Many of our users use the Nabble web interface as their primary method of
reading the Elecraft list.

Let's end this periodically recurring thread at this time.

73,
Eric
/Moderator etc.
elecraft.com/
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Let's end this thread immediately, as it was already closed yesterday per my
earlier list email below.

73,
Eric
Mooderator
/elecraft.com/
---

On 8/21/2017 4:28 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]