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MicroHam microkeyer

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James T. "Jim" Rogers, W4ATK

MicroHam microkeyer

Stewart wrote:

"Anyone using a MicroHam microkeyer with a K2 with an outboard KPA100 ?"

Stewart, As near as I can tell from the MicroHam MicroKeyer documentation,
the device makes no connection to the K2 thru the K2's serial port, whether
KPA100 or KI02. So I would suggest that answers your question.

Your second statement does puzzle me a bit. You said, "I'm interested in how
the microkeyer copes with the non standard Elecraft RS232 implementation?."
As a long time and very experienced datacomm engineer, I have to ask, what
is non-standard about the K2 RS-232 implementation. I find it very straight
forward, requiring no handshaking, simple and up to the task. Far simpler
that some of the "stuff" (cleaned that up) that I have run into in my long
and now retired career.

Jim, W4ATK
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Stewart Baker

Re: MicroHam microkeyer

It seems to have the ability to send commands to the K2 via the serial port.
What I meant to have said, was that Elecraft have some fairly non standard usage
of the pins on a RS232 D type.

73
Stewart G3RXQ
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:52:53 -0500, Jim\ wrote:

> Stewart wrote:
>
> "Anyone using a MicroHam microkeyer with a K2 with an outboard KPA100 ?"
>
> Stewart, As near as I can tell from the MicroHam MicroKeyer documentation,
> the device makes no connection to the K2 thru the K2's serial port, whether
> KPA100 or KI02. So I would suggest that answers your question.
>
> Your second statement does puzzle me a bit. You said, "I'm interested in how
> the microkeyer copes with the non standard Elecraft RS232 implementation?."
> As a long time and very experienced datacomm engineer, I have to ask, what
> is non-standard about the K2 RS-232 implementation. I find it very straight
> forward, requiring no handshaking, simple and up to the task. Far simpler
> that some of the "stuff" (cleaned that up) that I have run into in my long
> and now retired career.
>
> Jim, W4ATK
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Nick Waterman

Re: MicroHam microkeyer

Stewart Baker wrote:
> It seems to have the ability to send commands to the K2 via the
> serial port. What I meant to have said, was that Elecraft have some
> fairly non standard usage of the pins on a RS232 D type.

It uses TXD, RXD, and GND, and a sort of shield ground, and you probably
want to avoid connecting any other pins because they're (ab)used for
non-RS232 stuff like Elecraft's proprietary AUXBUS, power supplies,
wattmeters, and stuff.

I'd have thought it would be trivial to make a cable or adapter with
just those 3 pins connected. See KIO manual (downloadable) for pinouts.

--
"Nosey" Nick Waterman, G7RZQ, Senior Sysadmin.
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All your problems are being caused by invisible people called Floyd and
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Don Wilhelm-3

RE: MicroHam microkeyer

In reply to this post by Stewart Baker

Stewart and all,

That is precisely why I hesitate to refer to the DE9 connector on the KIO2
and the KPA100 as an 'RS232' connector.

To those not yet informed, please be aware that connecting a standard RS232
serial cable to this K2 connector (and the other end to a computer) will
most certainly do harm to your K2. This connector carries K2 control
signals (non-RS232) as well as the RS232 signals (only TXD and RXD and
Signal Ground are RS232 standard levels). The connector itself does not
follow the RS232 standard - perhaps it would have been better implemented as
a DIN connector, but it is too late for that now.

There are only 3 pins (OK, 4 if you include frame ground on pin 1) that are
RS232 signals. The rest of the pins should not be subjected to the up-to
plus/minus 25 volts levels that may be present should the other end of the
cable be connected to a device which presents standard RS232 signals.

For my own K2, I have put a plug into pin 4 and broken off pin 4 of the
mating cable, so only that special cable can be plugged into the K2 to
prevent an accident that can happen to the best of us.

73,
Don W3FPR

> -----Original Message-----
>
> It seems to have the ability to send commands to the K2 via the
> serial port.
> What I meant to have said, was that Elecraft have some fairly non
> standard usage
> of the pins on a RS232 D type.
>
> 73
> Stewart G3RXQ
>

Jim Byers-3

Re: MicroHam microkeyer

To all

This URL will take you to the schematic of the cable set used with
the Microham Microkeyer

http://www.microham.com/Downloads/DB37-EL-K2.pdf

If you look in the accessories section you can see the schematics of
all the cables

At present the US supplier is back ordered on the K2 cables until Nov
4th. If you wish to roll your own the online store does allow for a
price reduction if you do not order a cable.

I have no connection to Microham

73
Jim
VE3TTN

On Oct 23, 2005, at 14:34, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Stewart and all,
>
> That is precisely why I hesitate to refer to the DE9 connector on
> the KIO2
> and the KPA100 as an 'RS232' connector.
>
> To those not yet informed, please be aware that connecting a
> standard RS232
> serial cable to this K2 connector (and the other end to a computer)
> will
> most certainly do harm to your K2. This connector carries K2 control
> signals (non-RS232) as well as the RS232 signals (only TXD and RXD and
> Signal Ground are RS232 standard levels). The connector itself
> does not
> follow the RS232 standard - perhaps it would have been better
> implemented as
> a DIN connector, but it is too late for that now.
>
> There are only 3 pins (OK, 4 if you include frame ground on pin 1)
> that are
> RS232 signals. The rest of the pins should not be subjected to the
> up-to
> plus/minus 25 volts levels that may be present should the other end
> of the
> cable be connected to a device which presents standard RS232 signals.
>
> For my own K2, I have put a plug into pin 4 and broken off pin 4 of
> the
> mating cable, so only that special cable can be plugged into the K2 to
> prevent an accident that can happen to the best of us.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> It seems to have the ability to send commands to the K2 via the
>> serial port.
>> What I meant to have said, was that Elecraft have some fairly non
>> standard usage
>> of the pins on a RS232 D type.
>>
>> 73
>> Stewart G3RXQ
>>
>>

RJD-2

RE: MicroHam microkeyer

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-3

Looks like a opportunity for somebody to venture into the commercial world with
a "CONVERSION PLUG" for the K2??

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 18:34
To: Stewart Baker; Jim; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] MicroHam microkeyer

Stewart and all,

That is precisely why I hesitate to refer to the DE9 connector on the KIO2
and the KPA100 as an 'RS232' connector.

To those not yet informed, please be aware that connecting a standard RS232
serial cable to this K2 connector (and the other end to a computer) will
most certainly do harm to your K2. This connector carries K2 control
signals (non-RS232) as well as the RS232 signals (only TXD and RXD and
Signal Ground are RS232 standard levels). The connector itself does not
follow the RS232 standard - perhaps it would have been better implemented as
a DIN connector, but it is too late for that now.

There are only 3 pins (OK, 4 if you include frame ground on pin 1) that are
RS232 signals. The rest of the pins should not be subjected to the up-to
plus/minus 25 volts levels that may be present should the other end of the
cable be connected to a device which presents standard RS232 signals.

For my own K2, I have put a plug into pin 4 and broken off pin 4 of the
mating cable, so only that special cable can be plugged into the K2 to
prevent an accident that can happen to the best of us.

73,
Don W3FPR

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Stewart Baker

RE: MicroHam microkeyer

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-3

Don and all,
Thanks for your replies.

I have read all the tales of distress and solutions to the mix of RS232 and
non-RS232 re the K2 interface. Don't want to go there.

The standard MicroKeyer to K2 lead set as far as I can tell seems to have a
RS232 D type connector presumably male to go directly into a K2.
My system has the link cable between the K2 and a separate KPA100 & KAT100.
As the PC end of that cable is female I think that the MicroKeyer male connector
should mate with that. MicroHam say look at the diagrams and modify the cable
to suit. They only use TX, RX and ground pins.

I was really hoping for someone who was using the MicroKeyer
with a separate K2 and KPA100 combination so I can verify things.

73
Stewart G3RXQ

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:34:04 -0400, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Stewart and all,
>
> That is precisely why I hesitate to refer to the DE9 connector on the KIO2
> and the KPA100 as an 'RS232' connector.
>
> To those not yet informed, please be aware that connecting a standard RS232
> serial cable to this K2 connector (and the other end to a computer) will
> most certainly do harm to your K2. This connector carries K2 control
> signals (non-RS232) as well as the RS232 signals (only TXD and RXD and
> Signal Ground are RS232 standard levels). The connector itself does not
> follow the RS232 standard - perhaps it would have been better implemented as
> a DIN connector, but it is too late for that now.
>
> There are only 3 pins (OK, 4 if you include frame ground on pin 1) that are
> RS232 signals. The rest of the pins should not be subjected to the up-to
> plus/minus 25 volts levels that may be present should the other end of the
> cable be connected to a device which presents standard RS232 signals.
>
> For my own K2, I have put a plug into pin 4 and broken off pin 4 of the
> mating cable, so only that special cable can be plugged into the K2 to
> prevent an accident that can happen to the best of us.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> It seems to have the ability to send commands to the K2 via the
>> serial port.
>> What I meant to have said, was that Elecraft have some fairly non
>> standard usage
>> of the pins on a RS232 D type.
>>
>> 73
>> Stewart G3RXQ

Neal Campbell

RE: MicroHam microkeyer

I may not fully understand so excuse if I make no sense.

The plug coming out of the microkeyer represents your computer in the grand
scheme of things. So with your existing cable (as I assume works today)
where you would normally plug into the computer you would now plug into the
db9 shell coming out of the microkeyer db37. If you did not buy the Orion
cable from microkeyer you should build it exactly as they diagram.

Am I confused?

Neal

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stewart Baker
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:09 AM
To: Don Wilhelm; Jim; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] MicroHam microkeyer

Don and all,
Thanks for your replies.

I have read all the tales of distress and solutions to the mix of RS232 and
non-RS232 re the K2 interface. Don't want to go there.

The standard MicroKeyer to K2 lead set as far as I can tell seems to have a
RS232 D type connector presumably male to go directly into a K2.
My system has the link cable between the K2 and a separate KPA100 & KAT100.
As the PC end of that cable is female I think that the MicroKeyer male
connector should mate with that. MicroHam say look at the diagrams and
modify the cable to suit. They only use TX, RX and ground pins.

I was really hoping for someone who was using the MicroKeyer with a separate
K2 and KPA100 combination so I can verify things.

73
Stewart G3RXQ

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:34:04 -0400, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Stewart and all,
>
> That is precisely why I hesitate to refer to the DE9 connector on the
> KIO2 and the KPA100 as an 'RS232' connector.
>
> To those not yet informed, please be aware that connecting a standard
> RS232 serial cable to this K2 connector (and the other end to a
> computer) will most certainly do harm to your K2. This connector
> carries K2 control signals (non-RS232) as well as the RS232 signals
> (only TXD and RXD and Signal Ground are RS232 standard levels). The
> connector itself does not follow the RS232 standard - perhaps it would
> have been better implemented as a DIN connector, but it is too late for

that now.
>
> There are only 3 pins (OK, 4 if you include frame ground on pin 1)
> that are
> RS232 signals. The rest of the pins should not be subjected to the
> up-to plus/minus 25 volts levels that may be present should the other
> end of the cable be connected to a device which presents standard RS232
signals.

>
> For my own K2, I have put a plug into pin 4 and broken off pin 4 of
> the mating cable, so only that special cable can be plugged into the
> K2 to prevent an accident that can happen to the best of us.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> It seems to have the ability to send commands to the K2 via the
>> serial port.
>> What I meant to have said, was that Elecraft have some fairly non
>> standard usage of the pins on a RS232 D type.
>>
>> 73
>> Stewart G3RXQ

Don Wilhelm-3

RE: MicroHam microkeyer

In reply to this post by Stewart Baker

Stewart,

If the Microkeyer has connections only to pins 1, 2, 3 and 5 of the 9 pin
connector, one can safely plug it into the K2 directly.

In your case of an external KPA100, you have a existing cable connecting the
K2 to the KPA100. You will have to bring out another cable from the K2 end
containing the wires from pins 1, 2, 3 and 5. This is the normal cable
configuration for a computer connection with an external KPA100 (the RS232
signals contained at the external KPA100 end are not usable). You can make
the 'computer' cable length anything convenient for your situation.

BTW - It may or may not be obvious, but once you do make up this cable
containing only wires to pins 1, 2, 3 and 5, you can connect any RS232
device to the far end of that cable with no harm to the K2.

Another BTW - a properly configured KRC2 can connect all your other Elecraft
gear together and you can connect a standard serial cable to the KRC2
without harm. Do be aware that the KRC can be configured either way - to
pass the internal K2 signals along or to block them from the 'computer'
connector, it depends on which jumpers are in place.

73,
Don W3FPR

> -----Original Message-----

>
> Don and all,
> Thanks for your replies.
>
> I have read all the tales of distress and solutions to the mix of
> RS232 and
> non-RS232 re the K2 interface. Don't want to go there.
>
> The standard MicroKeyer to K2 lead set as far as I can tell seems
> to have a
> RS232 D type connector presumably male to go directly into a K2.
> My system has the link cable between the K2 and a separate KPA100
> & KAT100.
> As the PC end of that cable is female I think that the MicroKeyer
> male connector
> should mate with that. MicroHam say look at the diagrams and
> modify the cable
> to suit. They only use TX, RX and ground pins.
>
> I was really hoping for someone who was using the MicroKeyer
> with a separate K2 and KPA100 combination so I can verify things.
>
> 73
> Stewart G3RXQ
>
>

Chris Kantarjiev K6DBG

RE: MicroHam microkeyer

In reply to this post by James T. "Jim" Rogers, W4ATK

> For my own K2, I have put a plug into pin 4 and broken off pin 4 of the
> mating cable, so only that special cable can be plugged into the K2 to
> prevent an accident that can happen to the best of us.

An excellent idea. It's not just Elecraft that do this; Kantronics
established a radio connection in a DB9 many years back for
their TNC cables. No RS232 signals present at all - audio and power
and PTT!

> Looks like a opportunity for somebody to venture into the commercial world
> with a "CONVERSION PLUG" for the K2??

Hmm. Converting to what, I wonder? The issue, I think, is that the
DB9 on the K2 presents some signals that will damage a 'normal'
RS232 port if connected with a straight-through cable...

73 de chris K6DBG
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Don Wilhelm-3

RE: MicroHam microkeyer

Chris and all,

The signals from the K2 are not likely to damage any external RS232 port,
normal RS232 drivers and receivers will handle the signals sourced by the
K2. BUT - RS232 port signals from the external device WILL DAMAGE THE K2 if
they source signals on the normal DSR, RTS, CTS or RI (pins 6, 7, 8 and 9)
signal lines.

73,
Don W3FPR

> -----Original Message-----
>
> The issue, I think, is that the
> DB9 on the K2 presents some signals that will damage a 'normal'
> RS232 port if connected with a straight-through cable...
>
> 73 de chris K6DBG
>

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Chris Kantarjiev K6DBG

Re: Re: MicroHam microkeyer

In reply to this post by James T. "Jim" Rogers, W4ATK

Hmm. Pin 1 on a DB25 for RS-232 is protective ground. On a DB9, it's
Data Carrier Detect...

This URL doesn't point to the EIA standard, but is the most
practical explanation of serial connector wiring I've found:

http://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/cable/RS-232.html

73 de chris K6DBG

> > Might want to rethink just one pin of that. A connection from the
> > computer to pin 1 of the KIO2/KPA100's DE9 will probably create a
> > ground loop. Only connections to pins 2, 3 and 5 are needed.
> >
> > Pin 1 is the ground for the non-RS232 stuff (Auxbus, etc.).
> >
> > On Oct 24, 2005, at 4:38 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> >
> > > If the Microkeyer has connections only to pins 1, 2, 3 and 5 of the
> > > 9 pin
> > > connector, one can safely plug it into the K2 directly.
> >
> > - Jack Brindle, W6FB

Don Wilhelm-3

RE: Re: MicroHam microkeyer

Chris,

Yes, that is true - the SHELL on the DE9 connector is commonly listed as
protective (or frame) ground. Many interfaces do not implement or use the
Carrier Detect signal, but one never knows for certain unless you have
detailed info on the interface used.

That is also why the special computer to K2 cable does not attach pin 1 at
the computer end. At the K2 end, pin 1 IS used as a ground to the K2
chassis, and it is important for ground loops prevention and reducing the
coupling of extraneous signals into the K2 that this shield be carried to
the computer end (but not terminated there).

The K2 9 pin connector, like many others, is NOT an RS232 serial port, and I
do not believe any claims otherwise have been made. It is just a connector
that happens to have 2 RS232 signals (3 with signal ground) included in its
set of signals. There is no standard for the connector itself, it is used
in a variety of applications. So unless a connector is designated as a
serial port, make no assumptions that it really is - the K2 connector is
labeled on th erear panel as AUX I/O, and that is truly what it is - a
connector with auxiliary inputs and outputs, and must be interpreted in the
most generalized context of that labeling.

73,
Don W3FPR

> -----Original Message-----
>
> Hmm. Pin 1 on a DB25 for RS-232 is protective ground. On a DB9, it's
> Data Carrier Detect...
>
> This URL doesn't point to the EIA standard, but is the most
> practical explanation of serial connector wiring I've found:
>
> http://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/cable/RS-232.html
>
> 73 de chris K6DBG
>

crmabbott

Re: Re: MicroHam microkeyer

Found page on the web
http://www.airborn.com.au/rs232.html

In the area of PC to CNC you never connected 1 to 1 at anytime.

Might be a little late, but some additional information can't hurt

73 Chuck AA8VS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
To: "Chris Kantarjiev" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 12:38 PM
Subject: RE: Re: [Elecraft] MicroHam microkeyer

> Chris,
>
> Yes, that is true - the SHELL on the DE9 connector is commonly listed as
> protective (or frame) ground. Many interfaces do not implement or use the
> Carrier Detect signal, but one never knows for certain unless you have
> detailed info on the interface used.
>
> That is also why the special computer to K2 cable does not attach pin 1 at
> the computer end. At the K2 end, pin 1 IS used as a ground to the K2
> chassis, and it is important for ground loops prevention and reducing the
> coupling of extraneous signals into the K2 that this shield be carried to
> the computer end (but not terminated there).
>
> The K2 9 pin connector, like many others, is NOT an RS232 serial port, and
> I
> do not believe any claims otherwise have been made. It is just a
> connector
> that happens to have 2 RS232 signals (3 with signal ground) included in
> its
> set of signals. There is no standard for the connector itself, it is used
> in a variety of applications. So unless a connector is designated as a
> serial port, make no assumptions that it really is - the K2 connector is
> labeled on th erear panel as AUX I/O, and that is truly what it is - a
> connector with auxiliary inputs and outputs, and must be interpreted in
> the
> most generalized context of that labeling.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> Hmm. Pin 1 on a DB25 for RS-232 is protective ground. On a DB9, it's
>> Data Carrier Detect...
>>
>> This URL doesn't point to the EIA standard, but is the most
>> practical explanation of serial connector wiring I've found:
>>
>> http://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/cable/RS-232.html
>>
>> 73 de chris K6DBG
>>
>
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