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Microphone Qusestion

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ke9uw

Re: Microphone Qusestion

Interesting...I felt this from the days of the shootouts, but stayed somewhat quiet back then. Kind of like if they're happy and you got them Q5, why be the old guy.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 5, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Jim Brown-10 [via Elecraft] <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Sun,7/5/2015 12:31 PM, Clive Lorton wrote:
> The fact that Joe thinks certain products are over priced is his
> view, not necessarily everyone's

No, it's because Joe (and I) know microphones quite well, and we know
what good stuff costs. Joe is a retired broadcast engineering manager,
I'm retired from four decades in pro audio, including work as a
recording engineer. I'm also a member of the AES Standards Committee and
the Working Group on Microphones.

> otherwise Heil would not be in business.

Heil is in business for the same reason that Bose is in business -- they
spend a lot of money on advertising, and their customers don't know
enough about the product they are selling to know they're being
suckered. In the audio biz, we say of Bose, "better sound through
marketing." The same applies to Heil.

When I got back on the air in 2003, I was still very busy running my
audio biz, so I bought a used K2/100, which came with a Heil PTT mic
(MH2). I opened it up and found an inexpensive electret capsule that
couldn't have cost more than a buck or two wedged into an opening with a
piece of foam behind it.

73, Jim K9YC
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Chuck, KE9UW

Gary Gregory-2

Re: Microphone Qusestion

Hmmmm....i think Jim and Joe nailed it with regard to Mic (sound) and
associated cost.

Heil do nothing for me. The price turns me off and as others have stated
the K3 EQ is there to allow us all to use a sensibly priced Mic with good
quality resultant audio which is what we all want. (Thats an assumption on
my part ok)

I won't rant about the WI2HY. I will say i have yet to hear a station using
this type of audio that was adjusted to give good audio. My ears are c#@p
but a wide signal is still a wide signal and awful audio is still awful.
Piercing audio may cut through, but ripping off my headset when they call
sends me to the coffee machine and medicine drawer. It does not get a reply
from me.

I use a CM-500 and an MH2 and sometimes an old Turner +3. Never had any
complaints and I was born with a less than a DJ quality pitch. Oh well,
thems the breaks eh?

Just my 2 Drachmas worth...:-)

Gary
Vk1ZZ
K3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT
On 06/07/2015 11:01 AM, "ke9uw" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Interesting...I felt this from the days of the shootouts, but stayed
> somewhat quiet back then. Kind of like if they're happy and you got them
> Q5, why be the old guy.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jul 5, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Jim Brown-10 [via Elecraft] <
> [hidden email]<mailto:
> [hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> On Sun,7/5/2015 12:31 PM, Clive Lorton wrote:
> > The fact that Joe thinks certain products are over priced is his
> > view, not necessarily everyone's
>
> No, it's because Joe (and I) know microphones quite well, and we know
> what good stuff costs. Joe is a retired broadcast engineering manager,
> I'm retired from four decades in pro audio, including work as a
> recording engineer. I'm also a member of the AES Standards Committee and
> the Working Group on Microphones.
>
> > otherwise Heil would not be in business.
>
> Heil is in business for the same reason that Bose is in business -- they
> spend a lot of money on advertising, and their customers don't know
> enough about the product they are selling to know they're being
> suckered. In the audio biz, we say of Bose, "better sound through
> marketing." The same applies to Heil.
>
> When I got back on the air in 2003, I was still very busy running my
> audio biz, so I bought a used K2/100, which came with a Heil PTT mic
> (MH2). I opened it up and found an inexpensive electret capsule that
> couldn't have cost more than a buck or two wedged into an opening with a
> piece of foam behind it.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Chuck, KE9UW
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Microphone Qusestion

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

While I don't have my new K3S radio yet, I did print the Owners Manual.
It shows the MIC audio connection to be pin #1 as MIC audio, pin #7 as
GRD, and pin #8 as GRD. My question, are pins #7 & #8 the same or is
one analog ground and one chassis. ground. If so, which is analog ground
and which is chassis ground? I'm making a mike cable XLR to 8 pin.

73 Bob, K4TAX

On 7/5/2015 11:49 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On Sun,7/5/2015 7:06 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>> The Heil PR-781 is grossly overpriced. Any quality dynamic mic will
>> work very well with the K3/K3S.
>
> Right on both counts. Because I'm retired from pro audio, I have a
> closet full of pro mics. All of the dynamic mics work very well with
> the K3. Before one of the guys in our club introduced me to the CM500,
> I used an RE11 on a boom stand from my music recording stash. I also
> own two Sony MDR7506 headsets, which I no longer use in the shack
> because the CM500 is so good.
>
> The TX EQ built into the K3 is quite capable, and is all that is
> needed to tailor TX audio to a mic and a voice. An external equalizer
> is a waste of money. All it takes to use any dynamic mic with a K3 or
> K3S is a suitably wired connector or connector adapter cable. For a
> pro mic with an XL-connector, wire pin 2 to the mic input, pin 3 to
> mic return, and pin 1 to the connector shell. Or if you have a two
> wire cable (center plus shield), wire pin 2 to the center conductor
> and to mic input, tie 1 and 3 together to the shield, and connect to
> the K3 connector shell.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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ke9uw

Re: Microphone Qusestion

As best I can tell from the schematics, 7 and 8 are connected together. However I use 7 as mic ground and 8 as the shell, like Kenwood.

Chuck, KE9UW

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Microphone Qusestion

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Assuming there has been no change from the late K3, pins 7 and 8 are
both connected to circuit board common. Since the K3/K3S front panel
mic jack is generally compatible with Kenwood (except for the reversal
of pins 5 and 6), most folks treat pin 7 as mic return and pin 8 as
shell/ground/chassis.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2015-07-06 4:20 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:

>
> While I don't have my new K3S radio yet, I did print the Owners Manual.
> It shows the MIC audio connection to be pin #1 as MIC audio, pin #7 as
> GRD, and pin #8 as GRD. My question, are pins #7 & #8 the same or is
> one analog ground and one chassis. ground. If so, which is analog ground
> and which is chassis ground? I'm making a mike cable XLR to 8 pin.
>
>
> 73 Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 7/5/2015 11:49 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On Sun,7/5/2015 7:06 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>> The Heil PR-781 is grossly overpriced. Any quality dynamic mic will
>>> work very well with the K3/K3S.
>>
>> Right on both counts. Because I'm retired from pro audio, I have a
>> closet full of pro mics. All of the dynamic mics work very well with
>> the K3. Before one of the guys in our club introduced me to the CM500,
>> I used an RE11 on a boom stand from my music recording stash. I also
>> own two Sony MDR7506 headsets, which I no longer use in the shack
>> because the CM500 is so good.
>>
>> The TX EQ built into the K3 is quite capable, and is all that is
>> needed to tailor TX audio to a mic and a voice. An external equalizer
>> is a waste of money. All it takes to use any dynamic mic with a K3 or
>> K3S is a suitably wired connector or connector adapter cable. For a
>> pro mic with an XL-connector, wire pin 2 to the mic input, pin 3 to
>> mic return, and pin 1 to the connector shell. Or if you have a two
>> wire cable (center plus shield), wire pin 2 to the center conductor
>> and to mic input, tie 1 and 3 together to the shield, and connect to
>> the K3 connector shell.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Microphone Qusestion

In reply to this post by ke9uw

OK thanks. Got the info I needed.

73 Bob, K4TAX

On 7/6/2015 4:50 PM, ke9uw wrote:

> As best I can tell from the schematics, 7 and 8 are connected together.
> However I use 7 as mic ground and 8 as the shell, like Kenwood.
>
>
>
> -----
> Chuck, KE9UW
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Microphone-Qusestion-tp7604628p7604689.html
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Microphone Qusestion

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Thanks to all for the info.

Wiring the XLR for the mike;
pin #1 as ground/shield,
pin #2 mike high,
pin #3 as mike low.

To the radio 8 pin connector;
pin #1 as mike high,
pin 7 as mike low,
pin #8 as ground.

For what its worth, I use a three conductor shielded cable and thus
shield is connected at one end only.

73 Bob, K4TAX

On 7/6/2015 4:58 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> Assuming there has been no change from the late K3, pins 7 and 8 are
> both connected to circuit board common. Since the K3/K3S front panel
> mic jack is generally compatible with Kenwood (except for the reversal
> of pins 5 and 6), most folks treat pin 7 as mic return and pin 8 as
> shell/ground/chassis.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2015-07-06 4:20 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
>>
>> While I don't have my new K3S radio yet, I did print the Owners Manual.
>> It shows the MIC audio connection to be pin #1 as MIC audio, pin #7 as
>> GRD, and pin #8 as GRD. My question, are pins #7 & #8 the same or is
>> one analog ground and one chassis. ground. If so, which is analog ground
>> and which is chassis ground? I'm making a mike cable XLR to 8 pin.
>>
>>
>> 73 Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>> On 7/5/2015 11:49 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> On Sun,7/5/2015 7:06 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>>> The Heil PR-781 is grossly overpriced. Any quality dynamic mic will
>>>> work very well with the K3/K3S.
>>>
>>> Right on both counts. Because I'm retired from pro audio, I have a
>>> closet full of pro mics. All of the dynamic mics work very well with
>>> the K3. Before one of the guys in our club introduced me to the CM500,
>>> I used an RE11 on a boom stand from my music recording stash. I also
>>> own two Sony MDR7506 headsets, which I no longer use in the shack
>>> because the CM500 is so good.
>>>
>>> The TX EQ built into the K3 is quite capable, and is all that is
>>> needed to tailor TX audio to a mic and a voice. An external equalizer
>>> is a waste of money. All it takes to use any dynamic mic with a K3 or
>>> K3S is a suitably wired connector or connector adapter cable. For a
>>> pro mic with an XL-connector, wire pin 2 to the mic input, pin 3 to
>>> mic return, and pin 1 to the connector shell. Or if you have a two
>>> wire cable (center plus shield), wire pin 2 to the center conductor
>>> and to mic input, tie 1 and 3 together to the shield, and connect to
>>> the K3 connector shell.
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Microphone Qusestion

On Mon,7/6/2015 5:25 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
> pin #8 as ground.

Bob,

Unless you are absolutely certain that pin 8 goes straight to the
chassis, use the connector shell for the shield to be certain that you
don't excite a Pin One Problem.

73, Jim K9YC
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Microphone Qusestion

Thanks Jim.

I have provision for that if and as needed. That is one reason I use a
3 wire shielded cable where many installations only use a 2 wire
shielded cable. Someone reported that both pin #7 and pin #8 go to a PC
board ground. Grrrrrr

I know my other radios have a dedicated pin as mike ground and another
dedicated as chassis ground. This is connected by a very short jumper,
about 3/4", from the connector to the chassis.

Once I get the radio I may investigate connecting pin #8 direct to chassis.

73 Bob, K4TAX

On 7/6/2015 8:21 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On Mon,7/6/2015 5:25 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
>> pin #8 as ground.
>
> Bob,
>
> Unless you are absolutely certain that pin 8 goes straight to the
> chassis, use the connector shell for the shield to be certain that you
> don't excite a Pin One Problem.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>

Jim Brown-10

Re: Microphone Qusestion

On Mon,7/6/2015 6:37 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
> Once I get the radio I may investigate connecting pin #8 direct to
> chassis.

I install the Foster plug coming from the mic so that the shield is
clamped to the connector shell.

73, Jim K9YC
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Microphone Qusestion

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

The K3 mic jack shell is also connected to the circuit board ground plane.
Sure, it is a "pin 1" problem since it does not connect directly to the
front panel metalwork, but connecting the shell to the board ground is
better than leaving it float. The shield of your mic adapter cable
should connect to the shell.
I suggest using pin 7 for the AF return and if you add a PTT 'tap',
connect the 'hot' side to pin 2 and the return to pin 8.

If you connect nothing to pins 5 and 6, those connections will work for
both Elecraft and Kenwood mic jacks.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/6/2015 5:58 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>
> Assuming there has been no change from the late K3, pins 7 and 8 are
> both connected to circuit board common. Since the K3/K3S front panel
> mic jack is generally compatible with Kenwood (except for the reversal
> of pins 5 and 6), most folks treat pin 7 as mic return and pin 8 as
> shell/ground/chassis.
>

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Microphone Qusestion [Thread CLOSED]

Administrator

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Guys,

Time to close this thread in the interest of reducing overload for others due to the huge number of posts. This One is -way- over the normal list limit.

Also, there was a huge amount of over-copying of prior text in this thread. As per our list guidelines, please delete -all- prior list footers and also limit text from prior posts to just a few sentences if needed to retain context. It is never appropriate to copy multiple complete prior posts.

73,

Eric
List moderator, among other responsibilities..
elecraft.com
_..._

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Chris Hallinan

Re: Microphone Qusestion [Thread CLOSED]

Argh. This was a very interesting and pertinent thread, and I learned a
lot from it. Those that aren't interested should learn to use the delete
key. :(

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:26 AM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Guys,
>
> Time to close this thread in the interest of reducing overload for others
> due to the huge number of posts. This One is -way- over the normal list
> limit.
>
> Also, there was a huge amount of over-copying of prior text in this
> thread. As per our list guidelines, please delete -all- prior list footers
> and also limit text from prior posts to just a few sentences if needed to
> retain context. It is never appropriate to copy multiple complete prior
> posts.
>
> 73,
>
> Eric
> List moderator, among other responsibilities..
> elecraft.com
> _..._
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

--
Life is like Linux - it never stands still.
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Microphone Qusestion [Thread CLOSED]

Administrator

Yup, its certainly is a valuable thread, but once the volume gets too high, we
ask that further discussion be taken off list as we have thousands of readers
and not all are able to handle excessive email on topics they are not interested
in.

Also note that this type of discussion is a repeating topic over the years and
can be easily found and read in the searchable Elecraft archives at Nabble. (
See http://www.elecraft.com/elist.html )

73
Eric
/elecraft.com/
Moderator etc.

On 7/7/2015 7:09 AM, WA8JXM wrote:

> I definitely agree with Chris that this has been a very good thread and in
> fact, I marked and saved the message prior to Eric closing the thread because
> of the useful long term information in it.
>
> It may be time to close it, but it was a good and valuable thread through the
> last message IMO.
>
> 73,
> Ken WA8JXM
>
>
> On 07/07/2015 09:18, Chris Hallinan wrote:
>> Argh. This was a very interesting and pertinent thread, and I learned a
>> lot from it. Those that aren't interested should learn to use the delete
>> key. :(
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:26 AM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Guys,
>>>
>>> Time to close this thread in the interest of reducing overload for others
>>> due to the huge number of posts. This One is -way- over the normal list
>>> limit.
>>>

Bill-3

Re: Microphone Qusestion [Thread CLOSED]

Searching is great - as are new posts and new information. The large
number of posts indicated the amount of interest in the subject matter.
So much can be done with the K3/K3S's audio, so many varied mics out
there, and so many different user comments. So much to learn - I have
only been at the Elecraft game for three years.

Too bad to cut this one off.

Bill W2BLC K-Line

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Jeff Griffin

K3/0 mini remote rig problem

In reply to this post by k6dgw

I'm trying to get my remote setup running again at a different location.
It's been awhile since I last set it up, I was using it at my winter home
for several months without a problem, but can't get it to work here. I have
the feeling I'm forgetting something. Here's my setup and the problem.
I'm connected to the internet via Comcast. I'm at my summer home, and just
had the new Comcast router installed yesterday. I'm using a WiFi extender
that I used in the past with no problem, the extender is configured with my
connection ID with a _EXT extension, without a password. The RRC 1258 is
connected to the extender via an Ethernet cable, the setup I've been using
with no issues.
When I run the Microbit setup program using a USB cable connected to the
RRC 1258 I'm seeing the local RRC, but not the remote one at the K3 site. I
vaguely remember that I should be seeing both RRC 1258's ? But I'm not sure.
Anyway when I turn on the K3/0 mini I get the connect beep(not the
no-connection alarm) but the K3/0 shows a freq and TERM and the controls are
inoperative, turning the main VFO does nothing, etc.
So to recap.
1. I think I should see both RRC's in the Microbit s/w config window ?

2. Do I need to enter the login info for the local router, but I forget
where to do so if true.

Anyone have anything for me to try while I wait to call Elecraft support ?

73 Jeff kb2m

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