Mildly confused - Assumed filter width and what I see in waterfall do not match

[Thomas Bingenheimer]

I have been using several programs (Cocoamodem, mostly) to do PSK31, via Data  A. Instead of being able to use the full 4khz waterfall bandwidth available in, say, Cocoamodem, I have been limited to the available width in the only filter I had in the rig, the 2.7 khz 5-pole appeared to limit me to about 2.7 khz. So, I added the 6 khz filter, set it up for SSB (and enable ESSB, 4.0 khz). I now show 3 khz (500 to 3500 hz) in the waterfall. I suspect I have overlooked something, but it is not clear to me what. Does anybody have any idea? Thanks!


     
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[W7GJ, Lance]

Thomas Bingenheimer wrote:

> I have been using several programs (Cocoamodem, mostly) to do PSK31, via Data
> A. Instead of being able to use the full 4khz waterfall bandwidth available in,
> say, Cocoamodem, I have been limited to the available width in the only filter
> I had in the rig, the 2.7 khz 5-pole appeared to limit me to about 2.7 khz. So,
> I added the 6 khz filter, set it up for SSB (and enable ESSB, 4.0 khz). I now
> show 3 khz (500 to 3500 hz) in the waterfall. I suspect I have overlooked
> something, but it is not clear to me what. Does anybody have any idea? Thanks!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to:
> [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page:
> http://www.elecraft.com
>
>

Hello Tom,

I had the same basic idea, but to use the 6 kHz wide flter for receive in USB mode
for use with the "wide" bandwidth setting of WSJT, to be able to search a wider
bandwidth for callers on EME.  I tried to set the USB filter bandwidth to use the
6 KHz, but whenever I tried to XMIT I got an error.  Apparently the widest filter
permitted for SSB XMIT is 2.7 KHz, and this setting also somehow restricts the
receive filter capability also.

I have not figured it out yet for sure, but it seems that there currently is no
way to open up the width of the receiver in USB past 4 kHz :-(  It would sure be
more flexible  if there turns out to be some way to permit wider filter
possibilities in receive!

Please let me know if you discover some way to do this - I am sure there are
others besides us who also would be interested in this option!  TNX and GL!  VY
73, Lance

--
Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT  59834  USA
QTH: DN27UB
TEL: [phone]   URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815


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[Joe Subich, W4TV-4]

> I tried to set the USB filter bandwidth to
> use the 6 KHz, but whenever I tried to XMIT I got an error.  
> Apparently the widest filter permitted for SSB XMIT is 2.7
> KHz, and this setting also somehow restricts the
> receive filter capability also.

The only filters permitted for SSB transmit are 2.7 or 2.8 Khz
(unless you have enabled ESSB).

> I had the same basic idea, but to use the 6 kHz wide flter
> for receive in USB mode for use with the "wide" bandwidth
> setting of WSJT, to be able to search a wider bandwidth for
> callers on EME.

The maximum bandwidth permitted in data modes (or USB/LSB)
is 4.0 KHz even with a 6 KHz filter.  The DSP is limited
to a 4200 Hz high frequency cutoff in all modes except CW
where the maximum frequency is about 2400 Hz.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lance Collister
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:22 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed filter
> width and what I see in waterfall do not match
>
>
> Thomas Bingenheimer wrote:
> > I have been using several programs (Cocoamodem, mostly) to
> do PSK31,
> > via Data A. Instead of being able to use the full 4khz waterfall
> > bandwidth available in, say, Cocoamodem, I have been limited to the
> > available width in the only filter I had in the rig, the 2.7 khz
> > 5-pole appeared to limit me to about 2.7 khz. So, I added the 6 khz
> > filter, set it up for SSB (and enable ESSB, 4.0 khz). I now
> show 3 khz
> > (500 to 3500 hz) in the waterfall. I suspect I have overlooked
> > something, but it is not clear to me what. Does anybody
> have any idea?
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________ Elecraft
> mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber
> to post to
> > the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page:
> > http://www.elecraft.com
> >
> >
> Hello Tom,
>
> I had the same basic idea, but to use the 6 kHz wide flter
> for receive in USB mode
> for use with the "wide" bandwidth setting of WSJT, to be able
> to search a wider
> bandwidth for callers on EME.  I tried to set the USB filter
> bandwidth to use the
> 6 KHz, but whenever I tried to XMIT I got an error.  
> Apparently the widest filter
> permitted for SSB XMIT is 2.7 KHz, and this setting also
> somehow restricts the
> receive filter capability also.
>
> I have not figured it out yet for sure, but it seems that
> there currently is no
> way to open up the width of the receiver in USB past 4 kHz
> :-(  It would sure be
> more flexible  if there turns out to be some way to permit
> wider filter
> possibilities in receive!
>
> Please let me know if you discover some way to do this - I am
> sure there are
> others besides us who also would be interested in this
> option!  TNX and GL!  VY
> 73, Lance
>
> --
> Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN,
> WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT  59834  USA
> QTH: DN27UB
> TEL: [phone]   URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
> 2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

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[Thomas Bingenheimer]

This is what has disturbed me - I have turned on ESSB (set to 4 khz), and I have selected the 6 khz filter, but in no case do I get 4 khz in any mode. specifically, in Data A with DSP set wide open at 4 khz, the waterfall always cuts off at 3500 hz in any software I use. I do not understand why I cannot get the full 4 khz bandwidth. The firmware is at 2.67, DSP at 1.96. Does anyone see 4khz in the waterfall, and with the ability to xmit across the range?


--- On Wed, 1/7/09, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]>
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed filter width and what I see in waterfall do not match
> To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:59 AM
> > I tried to set the USB filter bandwidth to
> > use the 6 KHz, but whenever I tried to XMIT I got an
> error.  
> > Apparently the widest filter permitted for SSB XMIT is
> 2.7
> > KHz, and this setting also somehow restricts the
> > receive filter capability also.
>
> The only filters permitted for SSB transmit are 2.7 or 2.8
> Khz
> (unless you have enabled ESSB).
>
> > I had the same basic idea, but to use the 6 kHz wide
> flter
> > for receive in USB mode for use with the
> "wide" bandwidth
> > setting of WSJT, to be able to search a wider
> bandwidth for
> > callers on EME.
>
> The maximum bandwidth permitted in data modes (or USB/LSB)
> is 4.0 KHz even with a 6 KHz filter.  The DSP is limited
> to a 4200 Hz high frequency cutoff in all modes except CW
> where the maximum frequency is about 2400 Hz.
>
> 73,
>
>    ... Joe, W4TV
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email]
> > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Lance Collister
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:22 AM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Cc: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed
> filter
> > width and what I see in waterfall do not match
> >
> >
> > Thomas Bingenheimer wrote:
> > > I have been using several programs (Cocoamodem,
> mostly) to
> > do PSK31,
> > > via Data A. Instead of being able to use the full
> 4khz waterfall
> > > bandwidth available in, say, Cocoamodem, I have
> been limited to the
> > > available width in the only filter I had in the
> rig, the 2.7 khz
> > > 5-pole appeared to limit me to about 2.7 khz. So,
> I added the 6 khz
> > > filter, set it up for SSB (and enable ESSB, 4.0
> khz). I now
> > show 3 khz
> > > (500 to 3500 hz) in the waterfall. I suspect I
> have overlooked
> > > something, but it is not clear to me what. Does
> anybody
> > have any idea?
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> Elecraft
> > mailing list
> > > Post to: [hidden email] You must be a
> subscriber
> > to post to
> > > the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub,
> unsub etc.):
> > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > >
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page:
> > > http://www.elecraft.com
> > >
> > >
> > Hello Tom,
> >
> > I had the same basic idea, but to use the 6 kHz wide
> flter
> > for receive in USB mode
> > for use with the "wide" bandwidth setting of
> WSJT, to be able
> > to search a wider
> > bandwidth for callers on EME.  I tried to set the USB
> filter
> > bandwidth to use the
> > 6 KHz, but whenever I tried to XMIT I got an error.  
> > Apparently the widest filter
> > permitted for SSB XMIT is 2.7 KHz, and this setting
> also
> > somehow restricts the
> > receive filter capability also.
> >
> > I have not figured it out yet for sure, but it seems
> that
> > there currently is no
> > way to open up the width of the receiver in USB past 4
> kHz
> > :-(  It would sure be
> > more flexible  if there turns out to be some way to
> permit
> > wider filter
> > possibilities in receive!
> >
> > Please let me know if you discover some way to do this
> - I am
> > sure there are
> > others besides us who also would be interested in this
>
> > option!  TNX and GL!  VY
> > 73, Lance
> >
> > --
> > Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN,
> > WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT
> 59834  USA
> > QTH: DN27UB
> > TEL: [phone]   URL:
> http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
> > 2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
> > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> >  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
> >
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

     
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Post to: [hidden email]
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[Gary Smith]

A day or two ago I mentioned something about an difficulty getting
ESSB to work when using the Elecraft Configuration software. I was
suggested to look at the release notes in the utility.

The utility has no search feature so I highlighted all the text in
the release notes (under Help > K3 Firmware Release Notes) and used
<Ctrl C> to copy the test to a new test file. Starting at the top &
searching for ESSB I found where it was enabled and lower, under
update 2.23 I found the following:

"(1) Make sure the 6 kHz filter is configured correctly for AM
transmit; switch to AM mode, then specify this filter using
CONFIG:FLTX AM. (A future firmware release should allow use of the FM
filter for SSB as well, pending lab tests.)

(2) Locate CONFIG:TX ESSB. Select the desired extended bandwidth for
SSB transmit (3.0 to 4.0 kHz) using VFO A. Then tap `1´ on the keypad
to turn ESSB on/off. When on, the "+" icon in the mode area will turn
on. (If you turn ESSB on/off frequently, you might want to assign the
TX ESSB menu entry to a programmable function switch.)"

I had to set up ESSB separately from the "Edit Crystal Filters" by
doing the above but it indeed works.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> This is what has disturbed me - I have turned on ESSB (set to 4 khz), and I have selected the 6 khz filter, but in no case do I get 4 khz in any mode. specifically, in Data A with DSP set wide open at 4 khz, the waterfall always cuts off at 3500 hz in any software I use. I do not understand why I cannot get the full 4 khz bandwidth. The firmware is at 2.67, DSP at 1.96. Does anyone see 4khz in the waterfall, and with the ability to xmit across the range?
>
>
> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > From: Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed filter width and what I see in waterfall do not match
> > To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
> > Cc: [hidden email]
> > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:59 AM
> > > I tried to set the USB filter bandwidth to
> > > use the 6 KHz, but whenever I tried to XMIT I got an
> > error.  
> > > Apparently the widest filter permitted for SSB XMIT is
> > 2.7
> > > KHz, and this setting also somehow restricts the
> > > receive filter capability also.
> >
> > The only filters permitted for SSB transmit are 2.7 or 2.8
> > Khz
> > (unless you have enabled ESSB).
> >
> > > I had the same basic idea, but to use the 6 kHz wide
> > flter
> > > for receive in USB mode for use with the
> > "wide" bandwidth
> > > setting of WSJT, to be able to search a wider
> > bandwidth for
> > > callers on EME.
> >
> > The maximum bandwidth permitted in data modes (or USB/LSB)
> > is 4.0 KHz even with a 6 KHz filter.  The DSP is limited
> > to a 4200 Hz high frequency cutoff in all modes except CW
> > where the maximum frequency is about 2400 Hz.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> >    ... Joe, W4TV
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [hidden email]
> > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> > Lance Collister
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:22 AM
> > > To: [hidden email]
> > > Cc: [hidden email]
> > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed
> > filter
> > > width and what I see in waterfall do not match
> > >
> > >
> > > Thomas Bingenheimer wrote:
> > > > I have been using several programs (Cocoamodem,
> > mostly) to
> > > do PSK31,
> > > > via Data A. Instead of being able to use the full
> > 4khz waterfall
> > > > bandwidth available in, say, Cocoamodem, I have
> > been limited to the
> > > > available width in the only filter I had in the
> > rig, the 2.7 khz
> > > > 5-pole appeared to limit me to about 2.7 khz. So,
> > I added the 6 khz
> > > > filter, set it up for SSB (and enable ESSB, 4.0
> > khz). I now
> > > show 3 khz
> > > > (500 to 3500 hz) in the waterfall. I suspect I
> > have overlooked
> > > > something, but it is not clear to me what. Does
> > anybody
> > > have any idea?
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft
> > > mailing list
> > > > Post to: [hidden email] You must be a
> > subscriber
> > > to post to
> > > > the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub,
> > unsub etc.):
> > > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > > >
> > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > Elecraft web page:
> > > > http://www.elecraft.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Hello Tom,
> > >
> > > I had the same basic idea, but to use the 6 kHz wide
> > flter
> > > for receive in USB mode
> > > for use with the "wide" bandwidth setting of
> > WSJT, to be able
> > > to search a wider
> > > bandwidth for callers on EME.  I tried to set the USB
> > filter
> > > bandwidth to use the
> > > 6 KHz, but whenever I tried to XMIT I got an error.  
> > > Apparently the widest filter
> > > permitted for SSB XMIT is 2.7 KHz, and this setting
> > also
> > > somehow restricts the
> > > receive filter capability also.
> > >
> > > I have not figured it out yet for sure, but it seems
> > that
> > > there currently is no
> > > way to open up the width of the receiver in USB past 4
> > kHz
> > > :-(  It would sure be
> > > more flexible  if there turns out to be some way to
> > permit
> > > wider filter
> > > possibilities in receive!
> > >
> > > Please let me know if you discover some way to do this
> > - I am
> > > sure there are
> > > others besides us who also would be interested in this
> >
> > > option!  TNX and GL!  VY
> > > 73, Lance
> > >
> > > --
> > > Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN,
> > > WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT
> > 59834  USA
> > > QTH: DN27UB
> > > TEL: [phone]   URL:
> > http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
> > > 2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > Post to: [hidden email]
> > > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> > >  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
> > >
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>
>      
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

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Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
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Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Barry N1EU]

Thomas Bingenheimer wrote

I have turned on ESSB (set to 4 khz), and I have selected the 6 khz filter, but in no case do I get 4 khz in any mode. . . Does anyone see 4khz in the waterfall, and with the ability to xmit across the range?

Thomas, I believe what you are seeing is normal - the limitation is the actual maximum bandwidth currently implemented in firmware.

73,
Barry N1EU

[Dick Dievendorff]

I have added an ESSB index entry to K3 Utility Help (it's in K3 Utility
version 1.2.1.6) to index the existing sentence the Crystal Filter
Configuration Dialog Help page that says ESSB uses the AM filter for
transmit.

You can use the Crystal Filter Configuration Dialog to set the AM transmit
filter that is used for ESSB.

The remaining steps, CONFIG:TX ESSB and the numeric keypad selection, are
not part of crystal filter configuration.
 
Dick, K6KR
 

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary Smith
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:09 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed filter width and what I
see in waterfall do not match

A day or two ago I mentioned something about an difficulty getting
ESSB to work when using the Elecraft Configuration software. I was
suggested to look at the release notes in the utility.

The utility has no search feature so I highlighted all the text in
the release notes (under Help > K3 Firmware Release Notes) and used
<Ctrl C> to copy the test to a new test file. Starting at the top &
searching for ESSB I found where it was enabled and lower, under
update 2.23 I found the following:

"(1) Make sure the 6 kHz filter is configured correctly for AM
transmit; switch to AM mode, then specify this filter using
CONFIG:FLTX AM. (A future firmware release should allow use of the FM
filter for SSB as well, pending lab tests.)

(2) Locate CONFIG:TX ESSB. Select the desired extended bandwidth for
SSB transmit (3.0 to 4.0 kHz) using VFO A. Then tap `1´ on the keypad
to turn ESSB on/off. When on, the "+" icon in the mode area will turn
on. (If you turn ESSB on/off frequently, you might want to assign the
TX ESSB menu entry to a programmable function switch.)"

I had to set up ESSB separately from the "Edit Crystal Filters" by
doing the above but it indeed works.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> This is what has disturbed me - I have turned on ESSB (set to 4 khz), and
I have selected the 6 khz filter, but in no case do I get 4 khz in any mode.
specifically, in Data A with DSP set wide open at 4 khz, the waterfall
always cuts off at 3500 hz in any software I use. I do not understand why I
cannot get the full 4 khz bandwidth. The firmware is at 2.67, DSP at 1.96.
Does anyone see 4khz in the waterfall, and with the ability to xmit across
the range?
>
>
> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > From: Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed filter width and what
I see in waterfall do not match

> > To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
> > Cc: [hidden email]
> > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:59 AM
> > > I tried to set the USB filter bandwidth to
> > > use the 6 KHz, but whenever I tried to XMIT I got an
> > error.  
> > > Apparently the widest filter permitted for SSB XMIT is
> > 2.7
> > > KHz, and this setting also somehow restricts the
> > > receive filter capability also.
> >
> > The only filters permitted for SSB transmit are 2.7 or 2.8
> > Khz
> > (unless you have enabled ESSB).
> >
> > > I had the same basic idea, but to use the 6 kHz wide
> > flter
> > > for receive in USB mode for use with the
> > "wide" bandwidth
> > > setting of WSJT, to be able to search a wider
> > bandwidth for
> > > callers on EME.
> >
> > The maximum bandwidth permitted in data modes (or USB/LSB)
> > is 4.0 KHz even with a 6 KHz filter.  The DSP is limited
> > to a 4200 Hz high frequency cutoff in all modes except CW
> > where the maximum frequency is about 2400 Hz.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> >    ... Joe, W4TV
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [hidden email]
> > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> > Lance Collister
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:22 AM
> > > To: [hidden email]
> > > Cc: [hidden email]
> > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed
> > filter
> > > width and what I see in waterfall do not match
> > >
> > >
> > > Thomas Bingenheimer wrote:
> > > > I have been using several programs (Cocoamodem,
> > mostly) to
> > > do PSK31,
> > > > via Data A. Instead of being able to use the full
> > 4khz waterfall
> > > > bandwidth available in, say, Cocoamodem, I have
> > been limited to the
> > > > available width in the only filter I had in the
> > rig, the 2.7 khz
> > > > 5-pole appeared to limit me to about 2.7 khz. So,
> > I added the 6 khz
> > > > filter, set it up for SSB (and enable ESSB, 4.0
> > khz). I now
> > > show 3 khz
> > > > (500 to 3500 hz) in the waterfall. I suspect I
> > have overlooked
> > > > something, but it is not clear to me what. Does
> > anybody
> > > have any idea?
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft
> > > mailing list
> > > > Post to: [hidden email] You must be a
> > subscriber
> > > to post to
> > > > the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub,
> > unsub etc.):
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> > > >
> > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > Elecraft web page:
> > > > http://www.elecraft.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Hello Tom,
> > >
> > > I had the same basic idea, but to use the 6 kHz wide
> > flter
> > > for receive in USB mode
> > > for use with the "wide" bandwidth setting of
> > WSJT, to be able
> > > to search a wider
> > > bandwidth for callers on EME.  I tried to set the USB
> > filter
> > > bandwidth to use the
> > > 6 KHz, but whenever I tried to XMIT I got an error.  
> > > Apparently the widest filter
> > > permitted for SSB XMIT is 2.7 KHz, and this setting
> > also
> > > somehow restricts the
> > > receive filter capability also.
> > >
> > > I have not figured it out yet for sure, but it seems
> > that
> > > there currently is no
> > > way to open up the width of the receiver in USB past 4
> > kHz
> > > :-(  It would sure be
> > > more flexible  if there turns out to be some way to
> > permit
> > > wider filter
> > > possibilities in receive!
> > >
> > > Please let me know if you discover some way to do this
> > - I am
> > > sure there are
> > > others besides us who also would be interested in this
> >
> > > option!  TNX and GL!  VY
> > > 73, Lance
> > >
> > > --
> > > Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN,
> > > WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT
> > 59834  USA
> > > QTH: DN27UB
> > > TEL: [phone]   URL:
> > http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
> > > 2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Elecraft mailing list
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> > >
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>
>
>      
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[Thomas Bingenheimer]

This is the current state of the radio :
the 6 khz filter is in FL2, the 2.7 khz filter is in FL3. ESSB is on, and set to 4.0, complete with the '+' displaying in the right of the display when USB/LSB is used (note that it is off during DATA modes). AM TX is set to FL2,  SSB TX is set to FL3 (it will not allow it to be set to FL2, even with ESSB on). IN data A, I am setting the DSP to 4 khz. If the firmware is enforcing the use of FL3 for Data A, why would this be so? With software that can do 4.0 khz or greater waterfalls, why would we want to arbitrarily restrict the radio? For that matter, why restrict it at all for DATA modes? If the software on the computer would do it, why should we not be able to receive or transmit with say, the FM filter? If there is any such restriction, I would like to have the possibility of removing it considered. Thanks!


     
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Thomas,

I will not answer your questions directly,
BUT
 From an operational standpoint, using a wide bandwidth for data modes
is *not* the best way to do it.
The reason is AGC in the radio.  Any signal in the receiver passband can
activate the AGC - and that is fine *if and only if* the strongest
station in the receiver passband is the one you are working - usually
that is not the case.   The strong signal will reduce the receiver gain
due to its AGC action and the station you are trying to QSO with will be
reduced along with it.  Overload of the DAC by the strong signals is
another similar consideration - fortunately, the K3 employs a hardware
AGC ahead of the DAC to avoid just that possibility.  The DSP ADC can
handle an S9+20 signal without overload, but there are signals stronger
than that even in the sub-bands commonly used for digital.
 
Using a narrow passband for data modes allows one to avoid that
situation.  Yes, one must tune with the VFO to place the desired station
inside the receiver passband, but the possibility of a QRM free QSO is
much greater with the narrow passband.

Just because the software application can display a 4 kHz slice of the
spectrum is not sufficient reason to use a wide receiver passband IMHO.

Elecraft may well consider it just because some folks want to operate
that way, but it certainly does not make much sense to me.

73,
Don W3FPR

Thomas Bingenheimer wrote:
> This is the current state of the radio :
> the 6 khz filter is in FL2, the 2.7 khz filter is in FL3. ESSB is on, and set to 4.0, complete with the '+' displaying in the right of the display when USB/LSB is used (note that it is off during DATA modes). AM TX is set to FL2,  SSB TX is set to FL3 (it will not allow it to be set to FL2, even with ESSB on). IN data A, I am setting the DSP to 4 khz. If the firmware is enforcing the use of FL3 for Data A, why would this be so? With software that can do 4.0 khz or greater waterfalls, why would we want to arbitrarily restrict the radio? For that matter, why restrict it at all for DATA modes? If the software on the computer would do it, why should we not be able to receive or transmit with say, the FM filter? If there is any such restriction, I would like to have the possibility of removing it considered. Thanks!
>  
>
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[Bob Cunnings NW8L]

I simply disable AGC when I wish to run a wide receive bandwith with
PSK31 for "point and click" tuning - precisely to avoid such a
problem.

Bob NW8L

On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thomas,
>
> I will not answer your questions directly,
> BUT
>  From an operational standpoint, using a wide bandwidth for data modes
> is *not* the best way to do it.
> The reason is AGC in the radio.  Any signal in the receiver passband can
> activate the AGC - and that is fine *if and only if* the strongest
> station in the receiver passband is the one you are working - usually
> that is not the case.   The strong signal will reduce the receiver gain
> due to its AGC action and the station you are trying to QSO with will be
> reduced along with it.  Overload of the DAC by the strong signals is
> another similar consideration - fortunately, the K3 employs a hardware
> AGC ahead of the DAC to avoid just that possibility.  The DSP ADC can
> handle an S9+20 signal without overload, but there are signals stronger
> than that even in the sub-bands commonly used for digital.
>
> Using a narrow passband for data modes allows one to avoid that
> situation.  Yes, one must tune with the VFO to place the desired station
> inside the receiver passband, but the possibility of a QRM free QSO is
> much greater with the narrow passband.
>
> Just because the software application can display a 4 kHz slice of the
> spectrum is not sufficient reason to use a wide receiver passband IMHO.
>
> Elecraft may well consider it just because some folks want to operate
> that way, but it certainly does not make much sense to me.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Thomas Bingenheimer wrote:
>> This is the current state of the radio :
>> the 6 khz filter is in FL2, the 2.7 khz filter is in FL3. ESSB is on, and set to 4.0, complete with the '+' displaying in the right of the display when USB/LSB is used (note that it is off during DATA modes). AM TX is set to FL2,  SSB TX is set to FL3 (it will not allow it to be set to FL2, even with ESSB on). IN data A, I am setting the DSP to 4 khz. If the firmware is enforcing the use of FL3 for Data A, why would this be so? With software that can do 4.0 khz or greater waterfalls, why would we want to arbitrarily restrict the radio? For that matter, why restrict it at all for DATA modes? If the software on the computer would do it, why should we not be able to receive or transmit with say, the FM filter? If there is any such restriction, I would like to have the possibility of removing it considered. Thanks!
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> Post to: [hidden email]
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Bob,

That will do the trick in an analog only receiver, but a receiver like
the K3 has an analog front end followed by an ADC and DSP processor.  
The trick is to keep from overloading the ADC - should that happen, the
copy will be garbage.

That situation is not limited to the K3 - overload of the soundcard ADC
is also a possibility with equally bad results.

I have to admit that in many cases, one can operate with a wide
bandwidth with no problem, but when that strong signal enters the
passband, the wide bandwidth possibilities are "all over".  I chose to
take preventive measures before that happens.

73,
Don W3FPR

Bob Cunnings wrote:

> I simply disable AGC when I wish to run a wide receive bandwith with
> PSK31 for "point and click" tuning - precisely to avoid such a
> problem.
>
> Bob NW8L
>
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>> Thomas,
>>
>> I will not answer your questions directly,
>> BUT
>>  From an operational standpoint, using a wide bandwidth for data modes
>> is *not* the best way to do it.
>> The reason is AGC in the radio.  Any signal in the receiver passband can
>> activate the AGC - and that is fine *if and only if* the strongest
>> station in the receiver passband is the one you are working - usually
>> that is not the case.   The strong signal will reduce the receiver gain
>> due to its AGC action and the station you are trying to QSO with will be
>> reduced along with it.  Overload of the DAC by the strong signals is
>> another similar consideration - fortunately, the K3 employs a hardware
>> AGC ahead of the DAC to avoid just that possibility.  The DSP ADC can
>> handle an S9+20 signal without overload, but there are signals stronger
>> than that even in the sub-bands commonly used for digital.
>>
>> Using a narrow passband for data modes allows one to avoid that
>> situation.  Yes, one must tune with the VFO to place the desired station
>> inside the receiver passband, but the possibility of a QRM free QSO is
>> much greater with the narrow passband.
>>
>> Just because the software application can display a 4 kHz slice of the
>> spectrum is not sufficient reason to use a wide receiver passband IMHO.
>>
>> Elecraft may well consider it just because some folks want to operate
>> that way, but it certainly does not make much sense to me.
>>    
>

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[Bob Cunnings NW8L]

Disabling the AGC in the K3 certainly does "do the trick" in terms of
preventing strong signals in the passband from reducing receiver gain
and thus affecting the weaker signal I'm decoding - that's exactly why
I do it.

As for ADC overload -that's a risk I'm well aware of but most of the
time it's a non-issue, for me at least. If it happened I would react
to it, but I rarely encounter signals in the passband at anywhere near
the level to cause trouble of that sort.

Bob NW8L

On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Bob,
>
> That will do the trick in an analog only receiver, but a receiver like the
> K3 has an analog front end followed by an ADC and DSP processor.  The trick
> is to keep from overloading the ADC - should that happen, the copy will be
> garbage.
>
> That situation is not limited to the K3 - overload of the soundcard ADC is
> also a possibility with equally bad results.
>
> I have to admit that in many cases, one can operate with a wide bandwidth
> with no problem, but when that strong signal enters the passband, the wide
> bandwidth possibilities are "all over".  I chose to take preventive measures
> before that happens.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Bob Cunnings wrote:
>>
>> I simply disable AGC when I wish to run a wide receive bandwith with
>> PSK31 for "point and click" tuning - precisely to avoid such a
>> problem.
>>
>> Bob NW8L
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Thomas,
>>>
>>> I will not answer your questions directly,
>>> BUT
>>>  From an operational standpoint, using a wide bandwidth for data modes
>>> is *not* the best way to do it.
>>> The reason is AGC in the radio.  Any signal in the receiver passband can
>>> activate the AGC - and that is fine *if and only if* the strongest
>>> station in the receiver passband is the one you are working - usually
>>> that is not the case.   The strong signal will reduce the receiver gain
>>> due to its AGC action and the station you are trying to QSO with will be
>>> reduced along with it.  Overload of the DAC by the strong signals is
>>> another similar consideration - fortunately, the K3 employs a hardware
>>> AGC ahead of the DAC to avoid just that possibility.  The DSP ADC can
>>> handle an S9+20 signal without overload, but there are signals stronger
>>> than that even in the sub-bands commonly used for digital.
>>>
>>> Using a narrow passband for data modes allows one to avoid that
>>> situation.  Yes, one must tune with the VFO to place the desired station
>>> inside the receiver passband, but the possibility of a QRM free QSO is
>>> much greater with the narrow passband.
>>>
>>> Just because the software application can display a 4 kHz slice of the
>>> spectrum is not sufficient reason to use a wide receiver passband IMHO.
>>>
>>> Elecraft may well consider it just because some folks want to operate
>>> that way, but it certainly does not make much sense to me.
>>>
>>
>

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[Thomas Bingenheimer]

I guess my basic answer, is that should be my choice, not the radio firmware. If I want to run 4 (or say, 10khz) into my computer (and out) that should be my choice. After all, how is an SDR all that different. Again, I suspect this is a oversight in the firmware, not a design choice. Why should such a flexible radio be hobbled in this manner? (assuming, of course, that it is actually limited as such, as opposed to me setting it up wrong :) ).


--- On Wed, 1/7/09, Bob Cunnings <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Bob Cunnings <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed filter width and what I see in waterfall do not match
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 8:59 PM
> Disabling the AGC in the K3 certainly does "do the
> trick" in terms of
> preventing strong signals in the passband from reducing
> receiver gain
> and thus affecting the weaker signal I'm decoding -
> that's exactly why
> I do it.
>
> As for ADC overload -that's a risk I'm well aware
> of but most of the
> time it's a non-issue, for me at least. If it happened
> I would react
> to it, but I rarely encounter signals in the passband at
> anywhere near
> the level to cause trouble of that sort.
>
> Bob NW8L
>
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Don Wilhelm
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Bob,
> >
> > That will do the trick in an analog only receiver, but
> a receiver like the
> > K3 has an analog front end followed by an ADC and DSP
> processor.  The trick
> > is to keep from overloading the ADC - should that
> happen, the copy will be
> > garbage.
> >
> > That situation is not limited to the K3 - overload of
> the soundcard ADC is
> > also a possibility with equally bad results.
> >
> > I have to admit that in many cases, one can operate
> with a wide bandwidth
> > with no problem, but when that strong signal enters
> the passband, the wide
> > bandwidth possibilities are "all over".  I
> chose to take preventive measures
> > before that happens.
> >
> > 73,
> > Don W3FPR
> >
> > Bob Cunnings wrote:
> >>
> >> I simply disable AGC when I wish to run a wide
> receive bandwith with
> >> PSK31 for "point and click" tuning -
> precisely to avoid such a
> >> problem.
> >>
> >> Bob NW8L
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Don Wilhelm
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Thomas,
> >>>
> >>> I will not answer your questions directly,
> >>> BUT
> >>>  From an operational standpoint, using a wide
> bandwidth for data modes
> >>> is *not* the best way to do it.
> >>> The reason is AGC in the radio.  Any signal in
> the receiver passband can
> >>> activate the AGC - and that is fine *if and
> only if* the strongest
> >>> station in the receiver passband is the one
> you are working - usually
> >>> that is not the case.   The strong signal will
> reduce the receiver gain
> >>> due to its AGC action and the station you are
> trying to QSO with will be
> >>> reduced along with it.  Overload of the DAC by
> the strong signals is
> >>> another similar consideration - fortunately,
> the K3 employs a hardware
> >>> AGC ahead of the DAC to avoid just that
> possibility.  The DSP ADC can
> >>> handle an S9+20 signal without overload, but
> there are signals stronger
> >>> than that even in the sub-bands commonly used
> for digital.
> >>>
> >>> Using a narrow passband for data modes allows
> one to avoid that
> >>> situation.  Yes, one must tune with the VFO to
> place the desired station
> >>> inside the receiver passband, but the
> possibility of a QRM free QSO is
> >>> much greater with the narrow passband.
> >>>
> >>> Just because the software application can
> display a 4 kHz slice of the
> >>> spectrum is not sufficient reason to use a
> wide receiver passband IMHO.
> >>>
> >>> Elecraft may well consider it just because
> some folks want to operate
> >>> that way, but it certainly does not make much
> sense to me.
> >>>
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Thomas,

I believe you are mis-interpreting my response.  It is not a limitation
of the K3 that I am concerned about.  I just believe that it is
"adverturesome" to run with an extremely wide bandwidth 'just because it
is possible'.  I prefer to use a narrow bandwidth because it avoids a
lot of potential problems such as overload of the system at several
places - mainly the ADC portions.

Yes, that should be your choice, up to the bandwidth that the radio
provides.  If you can convince the folks at Aptos to increase the
available bandwidth for data modes, that is all well and good.  I for
one would not advocate that message because it has great potential to
increase the customer support "issues" that would occur when more naive
operators experience overload conditions or severe AGC pumping.

If you wish to operate digital modes in ESSB mode, the K3 provides that
capability - it is just not present in the current digital mode set of
options.

So you *do* have your choice, but not in the set of digital modes
recommended for the K3.

73,
Don W3FPR

Thomas Bingenheimer wrote:

> I guess my basic answer, is that should be my choice, not the radio firmware. If I want to run 4 (or say, 10khz) into my computer (and out) that should be my choice. After all, how is an SDR all that different. Again, I suspect this is a oversight in the firmware, not a design choice. Why should such a flexible radio be hobbled in this manner? (assuming, of course, that it is actually limited as such, as opposed to me setting it up wrong :) ).
>
>
> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Bob Cunnings <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  
>> From: Bob Cunnings <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed filter width and what I see in waterfall do not match
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 8:59 PM
>> Disabling the AGC in the K3 certainly does "do the
>> trick" in terms of
>> preventing strong signals in the passband from reducing
>> receiver gain
>> and thus affecting the weaker signal I'm decoding -
>> that's exactly why
>> I do it.
>>
>> As for ADC overload -that's a risk I'm well aware
>> of but most of the
>> time it's a non-issue, for me at least. If it happened
>> I would react
>> to it, but I rarely encounter signals in the passband at
>> anywhere near
>> the level to cause trouble of that sort.
>>
>> Bob NW8L
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Don Wilhelm
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>    
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> That will do the trick in an analog only receiver, but
>>>      
>> a receiver like the
>>    
>>> K3 has an analog front end followed by an ADC and DSP
>>>      
>> processor.  The trick
>>    
>>> is to keep from overloading the ADC - should that
>>>      
>> happen, the copy will be
>>    
>>> garbage.
>>>
>>> That situation is not limited to the K3 - overload of
>>>      
>> the soundcard ADC is
>>    
>>> also a possibility with equally bad results.
>>>
>>> I have to admit that in many cases, one can operate
>>>      
>> with a wide bandwidth
>>    
>>> with no problem, but when that strong signal enters
>>>      
>> the passband, the wide
>>    
>>> bandwidth possibilities are "all over".  I
>>>      
>> chose to take preventive measures
>>    
>>> before that happens.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>> Bob Cunnings wrote:
>>>      
>>>> I simply disable AGC when I wish to run a wide
>>>>        
>> receive bandwith with
>>    
>>>> PSK31 for "point and click" tuning -
>>>>        
>> precisely to avoid such a
>>    
>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> Bob NW8L
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Don Wilhelm
>>>>        
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>    
>>>>> Thomas,
>>>>>
>>>>> I will not answer your questions directly,
>>>>> BUT
>>>>>  From an operational standpoint, using a wide
>>>>>          
>> bandwidth for data modes
>>    
>>>>> is *not* the best way to do it.
>>>>> The reason is AGC in the radio.  Any signal in
>>>>>          
>> the receiver passband can
>>    
>>>>> activate the AGC - and that is fine *if and
>>>>>          
>> only if* the strongest
>>    
>>>>> station in the receiver passband is the one
>>>>>          
>> you are working - usually
>>    
>>>>> that is not the case.   The strong signal will
>>>>>          
>> reduce the receiver gain
>>    
>>>>> due to its AGC action and the station you are
>>>>>          
>> trying to QSO with will be
>>    
>>>>> reduced along with it.  Overload of the DAC by
>>>>>          
>> the strong signals is
>>    
>>>>> another similar consideration - fortunately,
>>>>>          
>> the K3 employs a hardware
>>    
>>>>> AGC ahead of the DAC to avoid just that
>>>>>          
>> possibility.  The DSP ADC can
>>    
>>>>> handle an S9+20 signal without overload, but
>>>>>          
>> there are signals stronger
>>    
>>>>> than that even in the sub-bands commonly used
>>>>>          
>> for digital.
>>    
>>>>> Using a narrow passband for data modes allows
>>>>>          
>> one to avoid that
>>    
>>>>> situation.  Yes, one must tune with the VFO to
>>>>>          
>> place the desired station
>>    
>>>>> inside the receiver passband, but the
>>>>>          
>> possibility of a QRM free QSO is
>>    
>>>>> much greater with the narrow passband.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just because the software application can
>>>>>          
>> display a 4 kHz slice of the
>>    
>>>>> spectrum is not sufficient reason to use a
>>>>>          
>> wide receiver passband IMHO.
>>    
>>>>> Elecraft may well consider it just because
>>>>>          
>> some folks want to operate
>>    
>>>>> that way, but it certainly does not make much
>>>>>          
>> sense to me.
>>    
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>      
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[Joe Subich, W4TV-4]

> I guess my basic answer, is that should be my choice, not the
> radio firmware. If I want to run 4 (or say, 10khz) into my
> computer (and out) that should be my choice.

The K3 does not support an audio bandwidth higher than 4.2 KHz
in ANY MODE.  If you do some checking you will find the DSP's
digital to analog converter effectively includes a 4.2 KHz
"brickwall" filter ... even in AM mode with the "bandwidth"
set to 5 KHz (10 KHz IF).  

If you expect audio response above 4.2 KHz, you will need to
convince Wayne and Lyle to relax the upper frequency limit.
HOWEVER, for digital modes I'm not so sure that is a good
idea.  With sound cards sampling at 11025 Hz, the input audio
needs to be band limited to 5.5 KHz maximum and 4.5 KHz offers
a fair margin for safety to handle the occasional application
that runs at 8 or 9 KHz.  

For AM - since the digital modes are not a consideration - it
would be nice to have 5.5 or 6.0 KHz response.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Thomas
> Bingenheimer
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:07 PM
> To: [hidden email]; Bob Cunnings
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed filter
> width and what Isee in waterfall do not match
>
>
> I guess my basic answer, is that should be my choice, not the
> radio firmware. If I want to run 4 (or say, 10khz) into my
> computer (and out) that should be my choice. After all, how
> is an SDR all that different. Again, I suspect this is a
> oversight in the firmware, not a design choice. Why should
> such a flexible radio be hobbled in this manner? (assuming,
> of course, that it is actually limited as such, as opposed to
> me setting it up wrong :) ).
>
>
> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Bob Cunnings <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > From: Bob Cunnings <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed filter width and
> > what I see in waterfall do not match
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 8:59 PM
> > Disabling the AGC in the K3 certainly does "do the
> > trick" in terms of
> > preventing strong signals in the passband from reducing
> > receiver gain
> > and thus affecting the weaker signal I'm decoding -
> > that's exactly why
> > I do it.
> >
> > As for ADC overload -that's a risk I'm well aware
> > of but most of the
> > time it's a non-issue, for me at least. If it happened
> > I would react
> > to it, but I rarely encounter signals in the passband at
> anywhere near
> > the level to cause trouble of that sort.
> >
> > Bob NW8L
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > That will do the trick in an analog only receiver, but
> > a receiver like the
> > > K3 has an analog front end followed by an ADC and DSP
> > processor.  The trick
> > > is to keep from overloading the ADC - should that
> > happen, the copy will be
> > > garbage.
> > >
> > > That situation is not limited to the K3 - overload of
> > the soundcard ADC is
> > > also a possibility with equally bad results.
> > >
> > > I have to admit that in many cases, one can operate
> > with a wide bandwidth
> > > with no problem, but when that strong signal enters
> > the passband, the wide
> > > bandwidth possibilities are "all over".  I
> > chose to take preventive measures
> > > before that happens.
> > >
> > > 73,
> > > Don W3FPR
> > >
> > > Bob Cunnings wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I simply disable AGC when I wish to run a wide
> > receive bandwith with
> > >> PSK31 for "point and click" tuning -
> > precisely to avoid such a
> > >> problem.
> > >>
> > >> Bob NW8L
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Don Wilhelm
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> Thomas,
> > >>>
> > >>> I will not answer your questions directly,
> > >>> BUT
> > >>>  From an operational standpoint, using a wide
> > bandwidth for data modes
> > >>> is *not* the best way to do it.
> > >>> The reason is AGC in the radio.  Any signal in
> > the receiver passband can
> > >>> activate the AGC - and that is fine *if and
> > only if* the strongest
> > >>> station in the receiver passband is the one
> > you are working - usually
> > >>> that is not the case.   The strong signal will
> > reduce the receiver gain
> > >>> due to its AGC action and the station you are
> > trying to QSO with will be
> > >>> reduced along with it.  Overload of the DAC by
> > the strong signals is
> > >>> another similar consideration - fortunately,
> > the K3 employs a hardware
> > >>> AGC ahead of the DAC to avoid just that
> > possibility.  The DSP ADC can
> > >>> handle an S9+20 signal without overload, but
> > there are signals stronger
> > >>> than that even in the sub-bands commonly used
> > for digital.
> > >>>
> > >>> Using a narrow passband for data modes allows
> > one to avoid that
> > >>> situation.  Yes, one must tune with the VFO to
> > place the desired station
> > >>> inside the receiver passband, but the
> > possibility of a QRM free QSO is
> > >>> much greater with the narrow passband.
> > >>>
> > >>> Just because the software application can
> > display a 4 kHz slice of the
> > >>> spectrum is not sufficient reason to use a
> > wide receiver passband IMHO.
> > >>>
> > >>> Elecraft may well consider it just because
> > some folks want to operate
> > >>> that way, but it certainly does not make much
> > sense to me.
> > >>>

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[Thomas Bingenheimer]

I would like to at least get the 4.2 khz mentioned - but in fact, I do not. My chief concern is that I should at least be able to use the full 4 khz waterfall that I can, in fact, get out of most other radios.


--- On Wed, 1/7/09, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]>
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed filter width and what Isee in waterfall do not match
> To: [hidden email], [hidden email], "'Bob Cunnings'" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 10:15 PM
> > I guess my basic answer, is that should be my choice,
> not the
> > radio firmware. If I want to run 4 (or say, 10khz)
> into my
> > computer (and out) that should be my choice.
>
> The K3 does not support an audio bandwidth higher than 4.2
> KHz
> in ANY MODE.  If you do some checking you will find the
> DSP's
> digital to analog converter effectively includes a 4.2 KHz
> "brickwall" filter ... even in AM mode with the
> "bandwidth"
> set to 5 KHz (10 KHz IF).  
>
> If you expect audio response above 4.2 KHz, you will need
> to
> convince Wayne and Lyle to relax the upper frequency limit.
>
> HOWEVER, for digital modes I'm not so sure that is a
> good
> idea.  With sound cards sampling at 11025 Hz, the input
> audio
> needs to be band limited to 5.5 KHz maximum and 4.5 KHz
> offers
> a fair margin for safety to handle the occasional
> application
> that runs at 8 or 9 KHz.  
>
> For AM - since the digital modes are not a consideration -
> it
> would be nice to have 5.5 or 6.0 KHz response.
>
> 73,
>
>    ... Joe, W4TV
>  
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email]
> > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Thomas
> > Bingenheimer
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:07 PM
> > To: [hidden email]; Bob Cunnings
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed
> filter
> > width and what Isee in waterfall do not match
> >
> >
> > I guess my basic answer, is that should be my choice,
> not the
> > radio firmware. If I want to run 4 (or say, 10khz)
> into my
> > computer (and out) that should be my choice. After
> all, how
> > is an SDR all that different. Again, I suspect this is
> a
> > oversight in the firmware, not a design choice. Why
> should
> > such a flexible radio be hobbled in this manner?
> (assuming,
> > of course, that it is actually limited as such, as
> opposed to
> > me setting it up wrong :) ).
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Bob Cunnings
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Bob Cunnings <[hidden email]>
> > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed
> filter width and
> > > what I see in waterfall do not match
> > > To: [hidden email]
> > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 8:59 PM
> > > Disabling the AGC in the K3 certainly does
> "do the
> > > trick" in terms of
> > > preventing strong signals in the passband from
> reducing
> > > receiver gain
> > > and thus affecting the weaker signal I'm
> decoding -
> > > that's exactly why
> > > I do it.
> > >
> > > As for ADC overload -that's a risk I'm
> well aware
> > > of but most of the
> > > time it's a non-issue, for me at least. If it
> happened
> > > I would react
> > > to it, but I rarely encounter signals in the
> passband at
> > anywhere near
> > > the level to cause trouble of that sort.
> > >
> > > Bob NW8L
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Don Wilhelm
> <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Bob,
> > > >
> > > > That will do the trick in an analog only
> receiver, but
> > > a receiver like the
> > > > K3 has an analog front end followed by an
> ADC and DSP
> > > processor.  The trick
> > > > is to keep from overloading the ADC - should
> that
> > > happen, the copy will be
> > > > garbage.
> > > >
> > > > That situation is not limited to the K3 -
> overload of
> > > the soundcard ADC is
> > > > also a possibility with equally bad results.
> > > >
> > > > I have to admit that in many cases, one can
> operate
> > > with a wide bandwidth
> > > > with no problem, but when that strong signal
> enters
> > > the passband, the wide
> > > > bandwidth possibilities are "all
> over".  I
> > > chose to take preventive measures
> > > > before that happens.
> > > >
> > > > 73,
> > > > Don W3FPR
> > > >
> > > > Bob Cunnings wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I simply disable AGC when I wish to run
> a wide
> > > receive bandwith with
> > > >> PSK31 for "point and click"
> tuning -
> > > precisely to avoid such a
> > > >> problem.
> > > >>
> > > >> Bob NW8L
> > > >>
> > > >> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Don
> Wilhelm
> > > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thomas,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I will not answer your questions
> directly,
> > > >>> BUT
> > > >>>  From an operational standpoint,
> using a wide
> > > bandwidth for data modes
> > > >>> is *not* the best way to do it.
> > > >>> The reason is AGC in the radio.  Any
> signal in
> > > the receiver passband can
> > > >>> activate the AGC - and that is fine
> *if and
> > > only if* the strongest
> > > >>> station in the receiver passband is
> the one
> > > you are working - usually
> > > >>> that is not the case.   The strong
> signal will
> > > reduce the receiver gain
> > > >>> due to its AGC action and the
> station you are
> > > trying to QSO with will be
> > > >>> reduced along with it.  Overload of
> the DAC by
> > > the strong signals is
> > > >>> another similar consideration -
> fortunately,
> > > the K3 employs a hardware
> > > >>> AGC ahead of the DAC to avoid just
> that
> > > possibility.  The DSP ADC can
> > > >>> handle an S9+20 signal without
> overload, but
> > > there are signals stronger
> > > >>> than that even in the sub-bands
> commonly used
> > > for digital.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Using a narrow passband for data
> modes allows
> > > one to avoid that
> > > >>> situation.  Yes, one must tune with
> the VFO to
> > > place the desired station
> > > >>> inside the receiver passband, but
> the
> > > possibility of a QRM free QSO is
> > > >>> much greater with the narrow
> passband.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Just because the software
> application can
> > > display a 4 kHz slice of the
> > > >>> spectrum is not sufficient reason to
> use a
> > > wide receiver passband IMHO.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Elecraft may well consider it just
> because
> > > some folks want to operate
> > > >>> that way, but it certainly does not
> make much
> > > sense to me.
> > > >>>

     
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[Joe Subich, W4TV-4]

> I would like to at least get the 4.2 khz mentioned - but in
> fact, I do not.

I don't know why you can't get 4 KHz if you have a 6 KHz
roofing filter enabled for receive in the DATA modes.  I
see 200 Hz to 4200 Hz with my audio spectrum analyzer software
on the Line Out port (although the Line Out has more low
frequency roll off than I would like between 200 Hz and 500 Hz).

Set BW (WIDTH) = 4.00 and FC (SHIFT) = 2.20 and you should
have 200 - 4200 Hz available to your waterfall. I have it
with my FM filter (even when I tell the K3 configuration
the FM filter is 6 KHz wide).

In the direct e-mail, I've attached a waterfall that shows two
CW signals (can't hear any PSK31 tonight) one at 1 KHZ and the
other at 4 KHz with several weaker signals in between.  You can
also see the significant roll-off in the K3 Line Out response
(-26 dB from 800 Hz to 100 Hz) below 500 Hz.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Thomas
> Bingenheimer
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 11:01 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed filter
> width and what Iseein waterfall do not match
>
>
> I would like to at least get the 4.2 khz mentioned - but in
> fact, I do not. My chief concern is that I should at least be
> able to use the full 4 khz waterfall that I can, in fact, get
> out of most other radios.
>
>
> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > From: Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed filter width and
> > what Isee in waterfall do not match
> > To: [hidden email], [hidden email], "'Bob
> Cunnings'" <[hidden email]>
> > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 10:15 PM
> > > I guess my basic answer, is that should be my choice,
> > not the
> > > radio firmware. If I want to run 4 (or say, 10khz)
> > into my
> > > computer (and out) that should be my choice.
> >
> > The K3 does not support an audio bandwidth higher than 4.2 KHz
> > in ANY MODE.  If you do some checking you will find the
> > DSP's
> > digital to analog converter effectively includes a 4.2 KHz
> > "brickwall" filter ... even in AM mode with the
> > "bandwidth"
> > set to 5 KHz (10 KHz IF).  
> >
> > If you expect audio response above 4.2 KHz, you will need
> > to
> > convince Wayne and Lyle to relax the upper frequency limit.
> >
> > HOWEVER, for digital modes I'm not so sure that is a
> > good
> > idea.  With sound cards sampling at 11025 Hz, the input
> > audio
> > needs to be band limited to 5.5 KHz maximum and 4.5 KHz
> > offers
> > a fair margin for safety to handle the occasional
> > application
> > that runs at 8 or 9 KHz.  
> >
> > For AM - since the digital modes are not a consideration -
> > it
> > would be nice to have 5.5 or 6.0 KHz response.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> >    ... Joe, W4TV
> >  
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [hidden email]
> > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> > Thomas
> > > Bingenheimer
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:07 PM
> > > To: [hidden email]; Bob Cunnings
> > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed
> > filter
> > > width and what Isee in waterfall do not match
> > >
> > >
> > > I guess my basic answer, is that should be my choice,
> > not the
> > > radio firmware. If I want to run 4 (or say, 10khz)
> > into my
> > > computer (and out) that should be my choice. After
> > all, how
> > > is an SDR all that different. Again, I suspect this is
> > a
> > > oversight in the firmware, not a design choice. Why
> > should
> > > such a flexible radio be hobbled in this manner?
> > (assuming,
> > > of course, that it is actually limited as such, as
> > opposed to
> > > me setting it up wrong :) ).
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Bob Cunnings
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Bob Cunnings <[hidden email]>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed
> > filter width and
> > > > what I see in waterfall do not match
> > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 8:59 PM
> > > > Disabling the AGC in the K3 certainly does
> > "do the
> > > > trick" in terms of
> > > > preventing strong signals in the passband from
> > reducing
> > > > receiver gain
> > > > and thus affecting the weaker signal I'm
> > decoding -
> > > > that's exactly why
> > > > I do it.
> > > >
> > > > As for ADC overload -that's a risk I'm
> > well aware
> > > > of but most of the
> > > > time it's a non-issue, for me at least. If it
> > happened
> > > > I would react
> > > > to it, but I rarely encounter signals in the
> > passband at
> > > anywhere near
> > > > the level to cause trouble of that sort.
> > > >
> > > > Bob NW8L
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Don Wilhelm
> > <[hidden email]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Bob,
> > > > >
> > > > > That will do the trick in an analog only
> > receiver, but
> > > > a receiver like the
> > > > > K3 has an analog front end followed by an
> > ADC and DSP
> > > > processor.  The trick
> > > > > is to keep from overloading the ADC - should
> > that
> > > > happen, the copy will be
> > > > > garbage.
> > > > >
> > > > > That situation is not limited to the K3 -
> > overload of
> > > > the soundcard ADC is
> > > > > also a possibility with equally bad results.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have to admit that in many cases, one can
> > operate
> > > > with a wide bandwidth
> > > > > with no problem, but when that strong signal
> > enters
> > > > the passband, the wide
> > > > > bandwidth possibilities are "all
> > over".  I
> > > > chose to take preventive measures
> > > > > before that happens.
> > > > >
> > > > > 73,
> > > > > Don W3FPR
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Cunnings wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I simply disable AGC when I wish to run
> > a wide
> > > > receive bandwith with
> > > > >> PSK31 for "point and click"
> > tuning -
> > > > precisely to avoid such a
> > > > >> problem.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Bob NW8L
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Don
> > Wilhelm
> > > > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Thomas,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I will not answer your questions
> > directly,
> > > > >>> BUT
> > > > >>>  From an operational standpoint,
> > using a wide
> > > > bandwidth for data modes
> > > > >>> is *not* the best way to do it.
> > > > >>> The reason is AGC in the radio.  Any
> > signal in
> > > > the receiver passband can
> > > > >>> activate the AGC - and that is fine
> > *if and
> > > > only if* the strongest
> > > > >>> station in the receiver passband is
> > the one
> > > > you are working - usually
> > > > >>> that is not the case.   The strong
> > signal will
> > > > reduce the receiver gain
> > > > >>> due to its AGC action and the
> > station you are
> > > > trying to QSO with will be
> > > > >>> reduced along with it.  Overload of
> > the DAC by
> > > > the strong signals is
> > > > >>> another similar consideration -
> > fortunately,
> > > > the K3 employs a hardware
> > > > >>> AGC ahead of the DAC to avoid just
> > that
> > > > possibility.  The DSP ADC can
> > > > >>> handle an S9+20 signal without
> > overload, but
> > > > there are signals stronger
> > > > >>> than that even in the sub-bands
> > commonly used
> > > > for digital.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Using a narrow passband for data
> > modes allows
> > > > one to avoid that
> > > > >>> situation.  Yes, one must tune with
> > the VFO to
> > > > place the desired station
> > > > >>> inside the receiver passband, but
> > the
> > > > possibility of a QRM free QSO is
> > > > >>> much greater with the narrow
> > passband.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Just because the software
> > application can
> > > > display a 4 kHz slice of the
> > > > >>> spectrum is not sufficient reason to
> > use a
> > > > wide receiver passband IMHO.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Elecraft may well consider it just
> > because
> > > > some folks want to operate
> > > > >>> that way, but it certainly does not
> > make much
> > > > sense to me.
> > > > >>>
>
>
>      
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[Thomas Bingenheimer]

Joe, You have just made my day! I have hoped that this was a case of "Boy with New Toy", and it is. I did not have a proper value for SHIFT, so the radio and the computer were not properly mapped to each other. I can now see and use the entire 4 khz. Thanks to all that spent some time thinking about this!


--- On Thu, 1/8/09, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed filter width and what Iseein waterfall do not match
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:51 AM
> > I would like to at least get the 4.2 khz mentioned -
> but in
> > fact, I do not.
>
> I don't know why you can't get 4 KHz if you have a
> 6 KHz
> roofing filter enabled for receive in the DATA modes.  I
> see 200 Hz to 4200 Hz with my audio spectrum analyzer
> software
> on the Line Out port (although the Line Out has more low
> frequency roll off than I would like between 200 Hz and 500
> Hz).
>
> Set BW (WIDTH) = 4.00 and FC (SHIFT) = 2.20 and you should
> have 200 - 4200 Hz available to your waterfall. I have it
> with my FM filter (even when I tell the K3 configuration
> the FM filter is 6 KHz wide).
>
> In the direct e-mail, I've attached a waterfall that
> shows two
> CW signals (can't hear any PSK31 tonight) one at 1 KHZ
> and the
> other at 4 KHz with several weaker signals in between.  You
> can
> also see the significant roll-off in the K3 Line Out
> response
> (-26 dB from 800 Hz to 100 Hz) below 500 Hz.
>
> 73,
>
>    ... Joe, W4TV
>  
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email]
> > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Thomas
> > Bingenheimer
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 11:01 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed
> filter
> > width and what Iseein waterfall do not match
> >
> >
> > I would like to at least get the 4.2 khz mentioned -
> but in
> > fact, I do not. My chief concern is that I should at
> least be
> > able to use the full 4 khz waterfall that I can, in
> fact, get
> > out of most other radios.
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Joe Subich, W4TV
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]>
> > > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Mildly confused - Assumed
> filter width and
> > > what Isee in waterfall do not match
> > > To: [hidden email], [hidden email],
> "'Bob
> > Cunnings'" <[hidden email]>
> > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 10:15 PM
> > > > I guess my basic answer, is that should be
> my choice,
> > > not the
> > > > radio firmware. If I want to run 4 (or say,
> 10khz)
> > > into my
> > > > computer (and out) that should be my choice.
> > >
> > > The K3 does not support an audio bandwidth higher
> than 4.2 KHz
> > > in ANY MODE.  If you do some checking you will
> find the
> > > DSP's
> > > digital to analog converter effectively includes
> a 4.2 KHz
> > > "brickwall" filter ... even in AM mode
> with the
> > > "bandwidth"
> > > set to 5 KHz (10 KHz IF).  
> > >
> > > If you expect audio response above 4.2 KHz, you
> will need
> > > to
> > > convince Wayne and Lyle to relax the upper
> frequency limit.
> > >
> > > HOWEVER, for digital modes I'm not so sure
> that is a
> > > good
> > > idea.  With sound cards sampling at 11025 Hz, the
> input
> > > audio
> > > needs to be band limited to 5.5 KHz maximum and
> 4.5 KHz
> > > offers
> > > a fair margin for safety to handle the occasional
> > > application
> > > that runs at 8 or 9 KHz.  
> > >
> > > For AM - since the digital modes are not a
> consideration -
> > > it
> > > would be nice to have 5.5 or 6.0 KHz response.
> > >
> > > 73,
> > >
> > >    ... Joe, W4TV
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: [hidden email]
> > > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of
> > > Thomas
> > > > Bingenheimer
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:07 PM
> > > > To: [hidden email]; Bob Cunnings
> > > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused -
> Assumed
> > > filter
> > > > width and what Isee in waterfall do not
> match
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I guess my basic answer, is that should be
> my choice,
> > > not the
> > > > radio firmware. If I want to run 4 (or say,
> 10khz)
> > > into my
> > > > computer (and out) that should be my choice.
> After
> > > all, how
> > > > is an SDR all that different. Again, I
> suspect this is
> > > a
> > > > oversight in the firmware, not a design
> choice. Why
> > > should
> > > > such a flexible radio be hobbled in this
> manner?
> > > (assuming,
> > > > of course, that it is actually limited as
> such, as
> > > opposed to
> > > > me setting it up wrong :) ).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Bob Cunnings
> > > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > From: Bob Cunnings
> <[hidden email]>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mildly confused
> - Assumed
> > > filter width and
> > > > > what I see in waterfall do not match
> > > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 8:59
> PM
> > > > > Disabling the AGC in the K3 certainly
> does
> > > "do the
> > > > > trick" in terms of
> > > > > preventing strong signals in the
> passband from
> > > reducing
> > > > > receiver gain
> > > > > and thus affecting the weaker signal
> I'm
> > > decoding -
> > > > > that's exactly why
> > > > > I do it.
> > > > >
> > > > > As for ADC overload -that's a risk
> I'm
> > > well aware
> > > > > of but most of the
> > > > > time it's a non-issue, for me at
> least. If it
> > > happened
> > > > > I would react
> > > > > to it, but I rarely encounter signals
> in the
> > > passband at
> > > > anywhere near
> > > > > the level to cause trouble of that
> sort.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob NW8L
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Don
> Wilhelm
> > > <[hidden email]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Bob,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That will do the trick in an
> analog only
> > > receiver, but
> > > > > a receiver like the
> > > > > > K3 has an analog front end
> followed by an
> > > ADC and DSP
> > > > > processor.  The trick
> > > > > > is to keep from overloading the
> ADC - should
> > > that
> > > > > happen, the copy will be
> > > > > > garbage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That situation is not limited to
> the K3 -
> > > overload of
> > > > > the soundcard ADC is
> > > > > > also a possibility with equally
> bad results.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have to admit that in many
> cases, one can
> > > operate
> > > > > with a wide bandwidth
> > > > > > with no problem, but when that
> strong signal
> > > enters
> > > > > the passband, the wide
> > > > > > bandwidth possibilities are
> "all
> > > over".  I
> > > > > chose to take preventive measures
> > > > > > before that happens.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 73,
> > > > > > Don W3FPR
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bob Cunnings wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I simply disable AGC when I
> wish to run
> > > a wide
> > > > > receive bandwith with
> > > > > >> PSK31 for "point and
> click"
> > > tuning -
> > > > > precisely to avoid such a
> > > > > >> problem.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Bob NW8L
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 5:44
> PM, Don
> > > Wilhelm
> > > > > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Thomas,
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I will not answer your
> questions
> > > directly,
> > > > > >>> BUT
> > > > > >>>  From an operational
> standpoint,
> > > using a wide
> > > > > bandwidth for data modes
> > > > > >>> is *not* the best way to
> do it.
> > > > > >>> The reason is AGC in the
> radio.  Any
> > > signal in
> > > > > the receiver passband can
> > > > > >>> activate the AGC - and
> that is fine
> > > *if and
> > > > > only if* the strongest
> > > > > >>> station in the receiver
> passband is
> > > the one
> > > > > you are working - usually
> > > > > >>> that is not the case.  
> The strong
> > > signal will
> > > > > reduce the receiver gain
> > > > > >>> due to its AGC action and
> the
> > > station you are
> > > > > trying to QSO with will be
> > > > > >>> reduced along with it.
> Overload of
> > > the DAC by
> > > > > the strong signals is
> > > > > >>> another similar
> consideration -
> > > fortunately,
> > > > > the K3 employs a hardware
> > > > > >>> AGC ahead of the DAC to
> avoid just
> > > that
> > > > > possibility.  The DSP ADC can
> > > > > >>> handle an S9+20 signal
> without
> > > overload, but
> > > > > there are signals stronger
> > > > > >>> than that even in the
> sub-bands
> > > commonly used
> > > > > for digital.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Using a narrow passband
> for data
> > > modes allows
> > > > > one to avoid that
> > > > > >>> situation.  Yes, one must
> tune with
> > > the VFO to
> > > > > place the desired station
> > > > > >>> inside the receiver
> passband, but
> > > the
> > > > > possibility of a QRM free QSO is
> > > > > >>> much greater with the
> narrow
> > > passband.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Just because the software
> > > application can
> > > > > display a 4 kHz slice of the
> > > > > >>> spectrum is not sufficient
> reason to
> > > use a
> > > > > wide receiver passband IMHO.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Elecraft may well consider
> it just
> > > because
> > > > > some folks want to operate
> > > > > >>> that way, but it certainly
> does not
> > > make much
> > > > > sense to me.
> > > > > >>>
> >
> >
> >      
> > _______________________________________________
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