Minimum bandwidth?
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At my remote transmitter site, I have 10 mbps 'down' and 1.2 mbps 'up' and
everything works fine. I expect that 1.2 mbps both directions would work, but have not actually tried on a connection like that. 73 John N5CQ -----Original Message----- From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Strom Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2016 10:51 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] Ignore my previous post on Satellite Internet DSL internet is available at my remote site. It is only 10MBPS speed. I believe that is the minimum speed for remote radio so might not work that well at that speed. Don W0EAR Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Minimum bandwidth?
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Ignore the faster speed, it's the slower speed on non-symmetric service.
The key question is always latency. You can check out a VoIP calculator if you want to play the numbers, but most VoIP (and most cellular service) run around 8 kilobits/second. No one offers IDSL service anymore, but it'd work beautifully at 128k (symmetric) with bandwidth to spare. Where the problem lies is in the way the line is provisioned. Where I live, there is only one provider that's worthwhile, the local telco.simply doesn't have enough bandwidth from the local central office to their first router. The cable company doesn't admit they have service, even though there is a drop to the house. That doesn't stop the Telco from selling 7 megabit service -- over and over and over. So, sometimes I get 7 millisecond pings. A lot of the time it's single digits, but every minute it'll jump over 500 msec. Right now it's averaging about 250 msec, and the maximum has been 998 msec. I've seen more than 4000 msec. (4 seconds). Imagine trying to snag some amazing DX, and having the audio just stop for four seconds. I could buy a faster wire, but they won't add bandwidth from the C.O. to the rest of the internet, so the latency would be the same. I'd buy slower if they offered it. 73 -- Lynn On 4/10/2016 2:59 AM, John Langdon wrote: > At my remote transmitter site, I have 10 mbps 'down' and 1.2 mbps 'up' and > everything works fine. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Minimum bandwidth?
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The key question is always latency.
Maybe the problems Lynn refers to is more due to very high jitter. In my experience fairly high latency *can* be used - if the jitter is low. It will not make you feel like being directly on the rig and you may have to adapt your operating style. But high jitter is hard to cope with mainly because the programs may stop and you need to re-start. It will drive you mad. My non-scientific experience is: Programs like IP-Sound, HRD, TeamViewer, KPA500 and KAT500 remote software will suffer first. Other programs like WKRemote and K3iNetwork annd Skype are more robust (dont recall ever having had to restart WKRemote due to jitter). I wonder what makes the difference. Maybe related to buffer control or some programs using TCP/IP and others UDP? 73/OZ4UN Poul-Erik Sent from my iPad On 10 Apr 2016, at 18:52, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: Ignore the faster speed, it's the slower speed on non-symmetric service. The key question is always latency. You can check out a VoIP calculator if you want to play the numbers, but most VoIP (and most cellular service) run around 8 kilobits/second. No one offers IDSL service anymore, but it'd work beautifully at 128k (symmetric) with bandwidth to spare. Where the problem lies is in the way the line is provisioned. Where I live, there is only one provider that's worthwhile, the local telco.simply doesn't have enough bandwidth from the local central office to their first router. The cable company doesn't admit they have service, even though there is a drop to the house. That doesn't stop the Telco from selling 7 megabit service -- over and over and over. So, sometimes I get 7 millisecond pings. A lot of the time it's single digits, but every minute it'll jump over 500 msec. Right now it's averaging about 250 msec, and the maximum has been 998 msec. I've seen more than 4000 msec. (4 seconds). Imagine trying to snag some amazing DX, and having the audio just stop for four seconds. I could buy a faster wire, but they won't add bandwidth from the C.O. to the rest of the internet, so the latency would be the same. I'd buy slower if they offered it. 73 -- Lynn On 4/10/2016 2:59 AM, John Langdon wrote: At my remote transmitter site, I have 10 mbps 'down' and 1.2 mbps 'up' and everything works fine. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Minimum bandwidth?
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My connection here has exceptionally high jitter, which is worse, but
also fairly unusual. A half-second of latency means you're hearing what happened a half-second ago, and when you key the transmitter, it's going to happen a half-second from now. Going back to the original question, it is nearly impossible today to buy too little bandwidth. We're also talking about audio, not video. The question "is 1 megabit/sec. enough" is like asking if you can pull a kids wagon around with a very large truck. Yes, you can, but you can also pull it with one hand. 73 -- Lynn On 4/11/2016 4:47 AM, Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA) wrote: >> The key question is always latency. > > Maybe the problems Lynn refers to is more due to very high jitter. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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To speak to the original question directly ...
I run remote to W7RN [right now, all I have, just getting local stealth antenna up] using RemoteRig RRC-1258 Mk2. We have DirecTV and ATT Uverse at 45 Mbps. I have watched the Win10 Task Manager WiFi display when I'm on CW and my wife is not watching Netflix or Amazon and it hangs around 150 Kbps with some occasional peaks to perhaps 200 Kbps. I've only done one NAQP SSB remotely, and it was about the same. I suspect it is using as much BW as it wants to and since we have way more than it needs, it uses it. I'd bet it would work OK on 128 Kbps ISDN ... do they still have ISDN? My RT ping times to W7RN range from about 25 to 60 ms, 70 ms is the highest I've ever seen and that was just once, average is about 35-40 ms. BW does not seem to be the big issue ... jitter, and dropped/delayed packets is more important. Initially, the latency bothered me, however after a couple of contest efforts, I no longer notice it. The W7RN radio is a K3+KPA500+KAT500. I connect to the local PC and remotely control it using TeamViewer and I see and control just as if I was on-site. The Green Heron rotator controls are on one screen, I just drag the display for the stack I want to use to the heading I want. The latency is apparent there, I've just learned to drag it slowly. The KPA500 monitor also appears, as does a webcam shot of the K3 and antenna usage indicator. My K3 front panel repeats what's on the remote radio. Jitter and dropped packets are annoying, the severity varies some. At 30 WPM, it appears that one dit more or less fits into a packet, and if delayed, it is delivered out of sequence to the codec. That too has faded somewhat into the distance for me as I gain experience using the remote. And, the very high CoAA [Coefficient of Aerial Aluminum] at W7RN makes up for a lot of other small annoyances -- if I call, they generally answer me first. :-)) The RemoteRig manuals and UI are a bit obscure and as my friend N6XI mentions, "too many moving parts," but once set up and optimized for the I'net connection, you never really need to touch it again. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016 - www.cqp.org On 4/11/2016 11:04 AM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote: > My connection here has exceptionally high jitter, which is worse, but > also fairly unusual. > > A half-second of latency means you're hearing what happened a > half-second ago, and when you key the transmitter, it's going to happen > a half-second from now. > > Going back to the original question, it is nearly impossible today to > buy too little bandwidth. We're also talking about audio, not video. > > The question "is 1 megabit/sec. enough" is like asking if you can pull a > kids wagon around with a very large truck. Yes, you can, but you can > also pull it with one hand. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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