My K3's hissy and noisy audio
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Re: My K3's hissy and noisy audio
 
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That's my view as well.
Stewart G3RXQ On Sun, 5 Apr 2009 17:09:08 -0400, Steve Ellington wrote: > Perhaps the band noise is more obvious in the K3 because the low frequency > audio is restricted causing the noise to be distributed over a more narrow > range. This lack of bass tends to induce for ear fatigue. > Steve Ellington > [hidden email] > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ab2tc" <[hidden email]> > To: <[hidden email]> > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 4:42 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] My K3's hissy and noisy audio >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> In my view the only "problem" with the K3 being "hissy" is the AGC >> threshold. On 20m and below even with AGC threshold set to the maximum >> (008), just the atmospheric noise is at or above the threshold and this is >> indeed tiring to listen to. I solve the problem by turning down the RF >> gain; I notice many others instead turn the AGC slope way up (actually low >> number), which has a similar effect for strong signals. Very high on my >> wish list is for at least another 5dB increase in the AGC threshold. The >> present range 002-008 is just not enough. >> >> >>>Sorry to pop this balloon but I'm in Arizona, USA and I concur. >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> >> ----- >> AB2TC - Knut >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://n2.nabble.com/My-K3%27s-hissy-and-noisy-audio-tp2588008p2590003.html >> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: My K3's hissy and noisy audio
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> Perhaps the band noise is more obvious in the K3 because the low frequency
> audio is restricted causing the noise to be distributed over a more narrow > range. This lack of bass tends to induce for ear fatigue. > Steve Ellington I agree with Steve on this one. Once more low-end was rolled into my audio hardware changes, I noticed a significant reduction in my own listener fatigue. Others have noted the K3's audio frequency response variance across different headphone models, most notably the Heil product. The K3's headphone circuit uses 10 uF of series capacitance from the headphone amp to each of the headphone coils. For the moment, assume that your headphones are 32-ohms (ref 100Hz). What is the best possible low-end response from the K3? The answer is 500 Hz @ -3dB. That part of the circuit needs some help. With a headphone Z even lower toward 8-ohms, the attenuation of bass response is worse. Now upgrade the series caps to 330 uF and re-run the calculation. With 32-ohm phones (ref 100 Hz), the frequency response improves to 15 Hz. Now that's t real Hi-Fi on par with what Icom delivers and the difference is immediately noticeable to anyone -- not just the folks with "golden ears." Finally, compare the result of the modified K3 with the Icom '7700 or '7800. Paul, W9AC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: My K3's hissy and noisy audio
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Audio response seems to be a difficult area for Elecraft.
SSB from the K2 often received poor reports because of the excessive LF response in the TX audio stages. It could be cured by reducing coupling capacitor values. The K3 RX audio appears to need the opposite approach. Stewart G3RXQ On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 06:54:21 -0400, Paul Christensen wrote: >> Perhaps the band noise is more obvious in the K3 because the low frequency >> audio is restricted causing the noise to be distributed over a more narrow >> range. This lack of bass tends to induce for ear fatigue. >> Steve Ellington > > I agree with Steve on this one. Once more low-end was rolled into my audio > hardware changes, I noticed a significant reduction in my own listener > fatigue. > > Others have noted the K3's audio frequency response variance across > different headphone models, most notably the Heil product. The K3's > headphone circuit uses 10 uF of series capacitance from the headphone amp to > each of the headphone coils. > > For the moment, assume that your headphones are 32-ohms (ref 100Hz). What > is the best possible low-end response from the K3? The answer is 500 Hz > @ -3dB. That part of the circuit needs some help. With a headphone Z even > lower toward 8-ohms, the attenuation of bass response is worse. > > Now upgrade the series caps to 330 uF and re-run the calculation. With > 32-ohm phones (ref 100 Hz), the frequency response improves to 15 Hz. Now > that's t real Hi-Fi on par with what Icom delivers and the difference is > immediately noticeable to anyone -- not just the folks with "golden ears." > > Finally, compare the result of the modified K3 with the Icom '7700 or '7800. > > Paul, W9AC > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Eric Scace K3NA
AGC settings and AF gain interact. With no signal you may have lots or little audio. Also, full audio can be at 20% of 50% gain.
When looking at the spectrum of a CW signal one clearly see the third and the fifth harmonics. Not sure whether they are real or artifacts of a sound card but K3 sounds a bit harsher than K2. These harmonics were part of a thread here by hams from the UA land; it was followed by the AF mod.. I am not sure whether my radio has already this fix(# around 2200). Ignacy
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Re: My K3's hissy and noisy audio
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In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen
Paul
I can see how this mod would improve headphone audio but what about low frequency audio for the speaker(s)? Steve Ellington [hidden email] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Christensen" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 6:54 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] My K3's hissy and noisy audio >> Perhaps the band noise is more obvious in the K3 because the low >> frequency >> audio is restricted causing the noise to be distributed over a more >> narrow >> range. This lack of bass tends to induce for ear fatigue. >> Steve Ellington > > I agree with Steve on this one. Once more low-end was rolled into my > audio > hardware changes, I noticed a significant reduction in my own listener > fatigue. > > Others have noted the K3's audio frequency response variance across > different headphone models, most notably the Heil product. The K3's > headphone circuit uses 10 uF of series capacitance from the headphone amp > to > each of the headphone coils. > > For the moment, assume that your headphones are 32-ohms (ref 100Hz). What > is the best possible low-end response from the K3? The answer is 500 Hz > @ -3dB. That part of the circuit needs some help. With a headphone Z > even > lower toward 8-ohms, the attenuation of bass response is worse. > > Now upgrade the series caps to 330 uF and re-run the calculation. With > 32-ohm phones (ref 100 Hz), the frequency response improves to 15 Hz. Now > that's t real Hi-Fi on par with what Icom delivers and the difference is > immediately noticeable to anyone -- not just the folks with "golden ears." > > Finally, compare the result of the modified K3 with the Icom '7700 or > '7800. > > Paul, W9AC > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: My K3's hissy and noisy audio
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Steve,
Someone else responded to me in private with the same question. Here's my answer: "The K3 speaker output has something like 470 uF of C in series with the speaker output amp. That's reasonably adequate. The problem with the K3 speaker's bass frequency response is not the electrical circuit. Rather, the K3's speaker has low-end response limitations due to the fact that the speaker is in not encased by an adequate baffle. The back wave of any speaker driven by a coil is 180-degrees out of phase with the forward wave. Although the K3's speaker is mounted to a metal surface, too many openings near it allow for the short circuit of the acoustical front and back waves at low frequencies. The degree to which acoustical wave cancellation occurs is a function of distance. At low frequencies, quite a bit of isolation distance is required. Typically, commercial speakers are encased (although some are ported to a resonance) to produce a virtual infinite distance through the use of the so-called infinite baffle. We've all done this experiment before at some point in our electronics education: Simply place an open speaker driver on a desk just sitting there and listen to low frequency tones. Then, take that same speaker and place it in an enclosure, or behind a large surface. The speaker placed by itself on the desktop sounds vastly inferior in bass response when compared to the same speaker enclosed in a box or placed behind a surface like wall or ceiling. For the K3, the fix is relatively easy. Simply enclose the back of the speaker driver with a solid substance like plastic. I used the top of a spray paint can and modified it slightly to fit around the K3's support truss." Incidentally, there's another interesting acoustical mechanism that assists our brains with bass content. If it were not for this effect, our perception of low-frequency content would be worse than it is when we listen to small speakers whose low-end response is restricted. In effect, our brains create a missing fundamental when it detects the presence of multiple harmonics of a single fundamental that should be there in the first place. Among auditory professionals, this effect is referred to as "Phenomenon of the Missing Fundamental." http://www.phys.uconn.edu/~gibson/Notes/Section7_4/Sec7_4.htm Paul, W9AC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ellington" <[hidden email]> To: "Paul Christensen" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] My K3's hissy and noisy audio > Paul > I can see how this mod would improve headphone audio but what about low > frequency audio for the speaker(s)? > Steve Ellington > [hidden email] > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Christensen" <[hidden email]> > To: <[hidden email]> > Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 6:54 AM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] My K3's hissy and noisy audio > > >>> Perhaps the band noise is more obvious in the K3 because the low >>> frequency >>> audio is restricted causing the noise to be distributed over a more >>> narrow >>> range. This lack of bass tends to induce for ear fatigue. >>> Steve Ellington >> >> I agree with Steve on this one. Once more low-end was rolled into my >> audio >> hardware changes, I noticed a significant reduction in my own listener >> fatigue. >> >> Others have noted the K3's audio frequency response variance across >> different headphone models, most notably the Heil product. The K3's >> headphone circuit uses 10 uF of series capacitance from the headphone amp >> to >> each of the headphone coils. >> >> For the moment, assume that your headphones are 32-ohms (ref 100Hz). >> What >> is the best possible low-end response from the K3? The answer is 500 Hz >> @ -3dB. That part of the circuit needs some help. With a headphone Z >> even >> lower toward 8-ohms, the attenuation of bass response is worse. >> >> Now upgrade the series caps to 330 uF and re-run the calculation. With >> 32-ohm phones (ref 100 Hz), the frequency response improves to 15 Hz. >> Now >> that's t real Hi-Fi on par with what Icom delivers and the difference is >> immediately noticeable to anyone -- not just the folks with "golden >> ears." >> >> Finally, compare the result of the modified K3 with the Icom '7700 or >> '7800. >> >> Paul, W9AC >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by PD2R
Maarten,
If you send me recordings of your K3 audio (and if possible, recordings of your other rig's audio for comparison), Lyle and I will listen to them and see if we think there's anything wrong (excessive hiss, harshness, etc.). This is certainly not the case with my K3 or any of those I've tested in my lab. If it turns out that nothing is broken, but that you perceive another rig to be better in some way, then we will try to improve the K3 to your satisfaction. Comparative recordings are the first step. 73, Wayne N6KR --- http://www.elecraft.com ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: My K3's hissy and noisy audio
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In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen
> Now upgrade the series caps to 330 uF and re-run the > calculation. With 32-ohm phones (ref 100 Hz), the frequency > response improves to 15 Hz. Now that's t real Hi-Fi on par > with what Icom delivers and the difference is immediately > noticeable to anyone -- not just the folks with "golden ears." On the other hand, plug a Heil ProSet with its 200 Ohm elements into an unmodified K3 and the -3dB point is 80 Hz ... low enough for communications use without being overly sensitive to hum and other low frequency noise, Similarly, with 8 Ohm speakers, the -3 dB point is 40 Hz with the 470 uF coupling capacitors in the speaker amp. 73, ... Joe, W4TV > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul > Christensen > Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 6:54 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] My K3's hissy and noisy audio > > > > Perhaps the band noise is more obvious in the K3 because the low > > frequency audio is restricted causing the noise to be > distributed over > > a more narrow range. This lack of bass tends to induce for ear > > fatigue. Steve Ellington > > I agree with Steve on this one. Once more low-end was rolled > into my audio > hardware changes, I noticed a significant reduction in my own > listener > fatigue. > > Others have noted the K3's audio frequency response variance across > different headphone models, most notably the Heil product. The K3's > headphone circuit uses 10 uF of series capacitance from the > headphone amp to > each of the headphone coils. > > For the moment, assume that your headphones are 32-ohms (ref > 100Hz). What > is the best possible low-end response from the K3? The > answer is 500 Hz > @ -3dB. That part of the circuit needs some help. With a > headphone Z even > lower toward 8-ohms, the attenuation of bass response is worse. > > Now upgrade the series caps to 330 uF and re-run the > calculation. With > 32-ohm phones (ref 100 Hz), the frequency response improves > to 15 Hz. Now > that's t real Hi-Fi on par with what Icom delivers and the > difference is > immediately noticeable to anyone -- not just the folks with > "golden ears." > > Finally, compare the result of the modified K3 with the Icom > '7700 or '7800. > > Paul, W9AC > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Now, you name any other manufacture which would offer that - and
direct from one of the owners of the company. Is that service, or is that SERVICE? 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- If you're sending someone some Styrofoam, what do you pack it in? On 6 Apr 2009, at 18:26, wayne burdick wrote: > Maarten, > > If you send me recordings of your K3 audio (and if possible, > recordings > of your other rig's audio for comparison), Lyle and I will listen to > them and see if we think there's anything wrong (excessive hiss, > harshness, etc.). This is certainly not the case with my K3 or any of > those I've tested in my lab. > > If it turns out that nothing is broken, but that you perceive another > rig to be better in some way, then we will try to improve the K3 to > your satisfaction. Comparative recordings are the first step. > > 73, > Wayne > N6KR ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: My K3's hissy and noisy audio
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In reply to this post by PD2R
This discussion reminds me of how fatiguing I found the TS-950S to
use. I could not do a contest without getting a splitting headache. The K2 helped me figure out why, one day after yet again mucking about with BFO settings & dealing with lumpy/bumpy filter passband & impossible quest to reasonably balance sound with high & low-side BFO injection, I inadvertently put an audio spectrum analyzer on the 950's output. Now this is from sample of quantity one, but that 950 had energy in its audio output well above bandwidth of interest. The K2 did not, nor did an IC-765 I was also using at the time. Only the 950 was literally painful to use after as short a time as a few hours. The K3 apparently has the same sort of energy on its audio output, but because it is so many dB down, when the news broke it was dismissed as a non-issue. Some folks have better hearing than others. Reproduction of the sound can also vary due to differences in speakers & headphones. All the variables could add together enough to reach the point where the effect is noticeable; they just as easily combine to something less. I hope Elecraft looks at issues like this more objectively than its user community appears to sometimes. And cheers to those who will say what some don't want to hear, is the only way things can get sorted out. 73, ex-VR2BG/p. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by M0XDF
Yes, that is great service!
I was not aware the my question on the reflector would stir thing up the way it dit. I´m not verry technical and I thought I had some setting messed up with my K3 which resulted in the bad audio. Given all the great response on the reflector I´m kind of lost in all the things that could be causing the less then diserable audio. In hindsite I feel that maybe it was better to contact Elecraft personaly. But again, I was not aware that I would lead to this much response. I am greatfull that Wayne is willing to help me out with this. It might take a wile before I can get the audio recordings because I´m not quiet sure how to make those recordings. Making the recordings shouldn´t be that hard, getting the Icom next to my K3 is a different problem. We use our own radio´s at our contest station and last time I brought my K3 and another operator brought his IC-7700. I can make a comparison with a FT 1000D from a friend who lives nearby. Thank you Wayne for your offer to sort this out, I´ll try to make the recordings a.s.a.p. Best 73 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Maarten, PD2R Member of the PI4DX contest group www.pi4dx.com Elecraft K3 nr:1849 |
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Oeps, forgot to take out the typo´s, pressed the send button to soon. Sorry
about that. 2009/4/7 Maarten van Rossum <[hidden email]> > Yes, that is great service! > > I was not aware the my question on the reflector would stir thing up the > way it dit. I´m not verry technical and I thought I had some setting messed > up with my K3 which resulted in the bad audio. Given all the great response > on the reflector I´m kind of lost in all the things that could be causing > the less then diserable audio. > > In hindsite I feel that maybe it was better to contact Elecraft personaly. > But again, I was not aware that I would lead to this much response. > > I am greatfull that Wayne is willing to help me out with this. It might > take a wile before I can get the audio recordings because I´m not quiet sure > how to make those recordings. Making the recordings shouldn´t be that hard, > getting the Icom next to my K3 is a different problem. We use our own > radio´s at our contest station and last time I brought my K3 and another > operator brought his IC-7700. I can make a comparison with a FT 1000D from a > friend who lives nearby. > > Thank you Wayne for your offer to sort this out, I´ll try to make the > recordings a.s.a.p. > > Best 73 > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Maarten, PD2R Member of the PI4DX contest group www.pi4dx.com Elecraft K3 nr:1849 |
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
Using Heil ProSet here and very satisfied with the K3's audio for
communications use. Bryan, Zl1NI > > On the other hand, plug a Heil ProSet with its 200 Ohm elements > into an unmodified K3 and the -3dB point is 80 Hz ... low enough > for communications use without being overly sensitive to hum and > other low frequency noise, Similarly, with 8 Ohm speakers, the > -3 dB point is 40 Hz with the 470 uF coupling capacitors in the > speaker amp. > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by PD2R
VR2BG wrote:
>The K3 apparently has the same sort of energy on its audio output, but because it is so many dB down, when the news broke it was dismissed as a non-issue. >Some folks have better hearing than others. Reproduction of the sound can also vary due to differences in speakers & headphones. All the variables could add together enough to reach the point where the effect is noticeable; they just as easily combine to something less. >I hope Elecraft looks at issues like this more objectively than its user community appears to sometimes. And cheers to those who will say what some don't want to hear, is the only way things can get sorted out. I'm sure Wayne will find this problem. The fact that many variables may be involved seems to be causing some to experience it and others not (luckily I'm one of the latter). The key is to get some good recordings and forward them to Elecraft with detailed setup descriptions including external devices (headphones, speakers, etc). Once the problem can be quantified, I'm sure the solution will come very quickly. 73, Bill W4ZV ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: My K3's hissy and noisy audio
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
> On the other hand, plug a Heil ProSet with its 200 Ohm elements
> into an unmodified K3 and the -3dB point is 80 Hz ... low enough > for communications use without being overly sensitive to hum and > other low frequency noise... That would be a good choice for the stock K3. One thing to note is that most coil-based headphones and speaker elements do not have a flat impedance curve as a function of frequency. Some can vary considerably from their rated impedance rating. The Z at 50 Hz can be vastly different than at 5 kHz. Also, moving the C9 & C13 headphone coupling capacitors up in value will allow for grabbing most any headphones.without worry as to how response will be affected. I used an old set of Koss Pro4/AA for testing but use Sennheiser PCX300 or Bose Triports headphones when operating my K3. Paul, W9AC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: My K3's hissy and noisy audio
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In reply to this post by VR2BrettGraham
> The K3 apparently has the same sort of energy on its audio > output, but because it is so many dB down, when the news > broke it was dismissed as a non-issue. There are several issues here that cloud the discussion. The K3 uses different audio amplifiers for the speakers and headphones. One person may be talking about headphone audio while another talking about the speaker audio. Even when discussing only headphone audio there are very significant differences depending on the impedance of the headphone elements due to the high pass characteristics of the 10 uF coupling capacitors - as documented by W9AC - as well as differences in the noise and distortion in the the headphone amplifier depending on load impedance. In addition, the response and efficiency of the headphones as well as the hearing of the individual all play a role. Once speakers are added to the discussion it brings a whole new group of concerns ... including a different amplifier and a wide variety of speakers and enclosures. 73, ... Joe, W4TV > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of VR2BrettGraham > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 3:03 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] My K3's hissy and noisy audio > > > This discussion reminds me of how fatiguing I found the > TS-950S to use. I could not do a contest without getting a > splitting headache. > > The K2 helped me figure out why, one day after yet again > mucking about with BFO settings & dealing with lumpy/bumpy > filter passband & impossible quest to reasonably balance > sound with high & low-side BFO injection, I inadvertently put > an audio spectrum analyzer on the 950's output. > > Now this is from sample of quantity one, but that 950 had > energy in its audio output well above bandwidth of interest. > The K2 did not, nor did an IC-765 I was also using at the > time. Only the 950 was literally painful to use after as > short a time as a few hours. > > The K3 apparently has the same sort of energy on its audio > output, but because it is so many dB down, when the news > broke it was dismissed as a non-issue. > > Some folks have better hearing than others. Reproduction of > the sound can also vary due to differences in speakers & > headphones. All the variables could add together enough to > reach the point where the effect is noticeable; they just as > easily combine to something less. > > I hope Elecraft looks at issues like this more objectively > than its user community appears to sometimes. And cheers to > those who will say what some don't want to hear, is the only > way things can get sorted out. > > 73, ex-VR2BG/p. > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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