NCC-2 noise canceller with K3s?

[Peter W2IRT]

Hi all,
I'm looking at replacing my finicky MFJ-1026 with a DX Engineering NCC-2
this season but I have a couple of questions for anybody here who's got one.

 

At the moment I have one TX antenna for 160 (inverted-L), one TX antenna for
80 (inverted vee), a K9AY RX loop for both and an AUX vertical antenna, fed
with RG-6 and split two ways (half to the K3s AUX port, half to the MFJ-1026
sense antenna port). Both TX antennas run come off a remote Ameritron RCS-12
antenna switch, which also switches my 40-through-10 Yagis. Running QRO with
a KPA-1500.

Before I spend $800 on this box, I've got to ask if my present antenna
configuration will work even somewhat effectively through the NCC-2. I'm on
a quarter-acre city lot and very fortunate to have the antennas I have. No
room for Beverages or a distant tower for a Waller Flag, etc. I've got high
levels of electrical noise from the industrial park less than a quarter mile
away, and likely from multiple sources therein, plus nearby homes' wall
warts, etc. In other words, I don't think it's one specific noise source
that's raising the noise floor to S9+10, but I'm looking for any way to
improve S/N on Topband and 80.

So with the K3s and KPA-1500, then antennas as described, is there any
reasonable way to connect this up and if yes, should I expect a noticeable
improvement?


---------------------------------------------
73 and Good DX
Peter, W2IRT



President, North Jersey DX Association

DXCC Card Checker
Letter O Manager, ARRL Incoming 2nd District QSL bureau

 

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[Jim Brown-10]

On 11/26/2019 5:20 PM, Peter Dougherty wrote:
> So with the K3s and KPA-1500, then antennas as described, is there any
> reasonable way to connect this up and if yes, should I expect a noticeable
> improvement?

The NCC-1 is an excellent unit; the NCC-2 adds a TX antenna input port.
It is most useful on 160 and 80, and still useful on 20. In all cases,
success depends on your noise sources and the antennas you can phase.
But it still boils down to the fact that you can usually only cancel one
direction at a time.

I'm on 8 acres, so I have six RX antennas -- two reversible Beverages
and a pair of VE3DO loops. I bought a very nice 8x2 RX antenna switch
from K9AY, and feed the two outputs to the NCC-1. I also feed the K3 RX
out to it, so that I can phase any of those antennas with the current TX
antenna.

73, Jim K9YC


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[Elecraft mailing list]

I fought noise on MW thru 20 at my QTH.  I used a 1026 with great success,
but it took running a second antenna very similar to the first to null out
the noise.  I was running a dipole and I put up another made out of very
small wire on the other side of my lot at about 3/4 the height, but it was
oriented the same direction and was dimensionally the same.  It was only
then I could null out the noise.  I tried 3 or 4 different configurations
for the second antenna, but it was not until I made it similar to the
primary antenna that it worked.

I also tried the NCC-2 with similar results - the second "similar" antenna
was the right answer for both boxes. I returned the DX box.

YMMV
Hank
K4HYJ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of Peter Dougherty
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 8:20 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] NCC-2 noise canceller with K3s?

Hi all,
I'm looking at replacing my finicky MFJ-1026 with a DX Engineering NCC-2
this season but I have a couple of questions for anybody here who's got one.

 

At the moment I have one TX antenna for 160 (inverted-L), one TX antenna for
80 (inverted vee), a K9AY RX loop for both and an AUX vertical antenna, fed
with RG-6 and split two ways (half to the K3s AUX port, half to the MFJ-1026
sense antenna port). Both TX antennas run come off a remote Ameritron RCS-12
antenna switch, which also switches my 40-through-10 Yagis. Running QRO with
a KPA-1500.

Before I spend $800 on this box, I've got to ask if my present antenna
configuration will work even somewhat effectively through the NCC-2. I'm on
a quarter-acre city lot and very fortunate to have the antennas I have. No
room for Beverages or a distant tower for a Waller Flag, etc. I've got high
levels of electrical noise from the industrial park less than a quarter mile
away, and likely from multiple sources therein, plus nearby homes' wall
warts, etc. In other words, I don't think it's one specific noise source
that's raising the noise floor to S9+10, but I'm looking for any way to
improve S/N on Topband and 80.

So with the K3s and KPA-1500, then antennas as described, is there any
reasonable way to connect this up and if yes, should I expect a noticeable
improvement?


---------------------------------------------
73 and Good DX
Peter, W2IRT



President, North Jersey DX Association

DXCC Card Checker
Letter O Manager, ARRL Incoming 2nd District QSL bureau

 

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[Dick Dickinson]

."So with the K3s and KPA-1500, then antennas as described, is there any

reasonable way to connect this up and if yes, should I expect a noticeable

improvement?"

 

Have you tried the current antenna setup with the 1026..?  Did it perform at
all?  If not, what were the perceived shortcomings?

 

'Conceptually,' I don't see a difference if a) you've tired the various
combos with the 1026, and b) you are making no other antenna changes.  Yes,
I'd except better performance from the NCC-2.  'Less finicky'.can't say.
Finding nulls among a variety of noises can be tricky.  With broadband
noise, it can sometimes be effective to Peak the overall noise and invert it
instead of seeking a null.  Working or not, I can't see that you'd need any
changes to insert the NCC-2 short of changes to the antenna system.

 

I run a 1026 with a pair of 40 meter inverted vees.  Until two weeks ago,
they shared a common apex (but not feed point) and were orthogonal to each
other.  They were reversible as well.TX/RX with either.  Local noise has
been low here recently, but there were usually somewhat effective when there
was noise.  As well, I can use a mix of other antennas, but most of my
recent activity has been on 40 meters.  The setup seems to make little
difference with atmospheric noise.  Often there seems to be little I can do
to diminish that noise.

 

I've now moved one inverted vee a quarter wavelength away from the other and
still orthogonal.  One vee still needs some pruning or other, but the
listening from Kentucky to the western states was very good last night.
There was little noise to be canceled.

 

My guess is that with what you have and no changes other than the noise
canceling unit, you'll get about what you are now getting, only more so with
the NCC-2.

 

 

Dick - KA5KKT

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[Peter W2IRT]

What I have now is the K9AY as the main antenna on the 1026, and the
random-length vertical with two radials as the second "Aux" antenna. The
adjustment is extremely finicky. The phase control has a hair trigger
basically. Plus I can't really equalize the signals since the vertical aux
antenna can't hear as well as the K9AY.

I'm trying to figure out how I could use the combination of my TX antennas
(which run through the antenna switch) versus the K9AY, and use the AUX
antenna strictly for diversity RX on the K3s, which works somewhat
brilliantly on 40m, but doesn't do much on 80/160.

 - pjd

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of Dick Dickinson
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 9:38 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] NCC-2 noise canceller with K3s?

Have you tried the current antenna setup with the 1026..?  Did it perform at
all?  If not, what were the perceived shortcomings?

My guess is that with what you have and no changes other than the noise
canceling unit, you'll get about what you are now getting, only more so with
the NCC-2.
 

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[Ignacy]

I have NCC-2, 3 el-HiZ and a Wellbrook loop. NCC2 is not useful for weaker
antennas until one adds amplifiers and, for peace of mind, antenna guards.
Very expensive. I had it once miswired and it blew the inside - no fuse.

The only time I use it now is for power line noise canceling.

Ignacy, NO9E



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